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Shooting in the French Alps

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12467…12

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    #92
    ooPabsoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 542 ✭✭✭ooPabsoo


    pickarooney wrote: »
    I don't really understand the science. Does a dead body show up orangey-red on the thermal imaging or only a live person?

    Did the cyclist not check anyone for a pulse? It seems really bizarre behaviour.

    A live person will show up orangey red under thermal imaging due to its heat. A dead body will be cold...so won't show a red colour.

    I guess the cyclist just checked the 8 year old for a pulse, called the police- and then looked in to the car and from the sight he seen presumed everybody was dead inside.


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    #93
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Rural France can be xenophobic. There is also a huge cultural backlash against specific ethnic groups ATM in France ( I travel there regularly btw)
    ...In all seriousness how can you draw a link between an oul' lad with a shotgun who doesn't much like them arabs and a quadruple murder with a handgun at point blank range?

    Edit: here is weirdly similar case


    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/french-alps-shooting-bears-eerie-1307564


    Btw there was no mention of an "ol lad"?
    How would you link a joe soap "Norweigan" with the killing of teenagers because he didn't like the liberal policies and Immigration of recent decades.

    Xenophobia doesn't discriminate ironically enough! I do love the eyewitness detail being given here - are the forensics back in btw?

    Any black choppers flying around at the time?


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    #94
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    I guess seeing a hole in someone's head is a fairly good indicator that they're dead, you wouldn't be inclined to try start CPR on them.

    In any case, even if the cyclist or the attending police had checked for a pulse, they still wouldn't have discovered the 4 year old sitting still hidden under her mother's dress. You'd check for life, no life. Then have a look in and around the vehicle for anyone else, but without disturbing anything. You see nothing, so you sit and wait for the forensics guys.
    I don't really see anything else they should have done - if they had started poking around and moving bodies, they could completely destroy vital evidence. It's unfortunate that the little girl was hidden there, but she didn't come to any additional harm, so I don't think it's that big a deal.

    Though the fact that she was there at all is kind of interesting. I doubt she was travelling like that, so is it possible that there was some kind of row or disagreement between the driver and shooter(s) beforehand and the mother told her to hide?


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    #95
    ooPabsoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 542 ✭✭✭ooPabsoo


    seamus wrote: »
    Though the fact that she was there at all is kind of interesting. I doubt she was travelling like that, so is it possible that there was some kind of row or disagreement between the driver and shooter(s) beforehand and the mother told her to hide?

    I'd have a guess and say she could have been sitting on her Mams lap when they got stopped....then when her Mam realised they were in trouble- dropped her down in front of her to hide.

    The killer mustn't have seen her. If he'd beat an 8 year old to inch of her life...he would have probably done the same to a 4 year old.


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    #96
    Dave!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,857 ✭✭✭✭Dave!


    Fascinating, and quite disturbing, story... The 7 year old, if she survives, will I assume be the key witness.

    Just what in the f*ck prompted this execution?!

    I can't wait for the film. Matt Damon should star in it.


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    #97
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    ooPabsoo wrote: »
    I'd have a guess and say she could have been sitting on her Mams lap when they got stopped....then when her Mam realised they were in trouble- dropped her down in front of her to hide.
    Looking at the aerial pictures of the car, it seems to be parked in a very odd position. Almost looks like he jammed it into reverse in panic.


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    #98
    brimal
    Registered Users Posts: 1,216 ✭✭✭brimal


    latenia wrote: »
    Why not Mossad? They've done stuff like this on European soil many times in the past.
    brandon_flowers wrote: »
    I say this because I believe it was a Mossad hit.
    Pinturicchio wrote: »
    The first word that came to my mind when I read this story was "Mossad".

    Can you guys please give one piece of evidence, or even a motive, that suggests it was Mossad that carried this out?


    Police are currently investigating a family feud involving money.

    Prosecutor Eric Maillaud says "I won't say it was professional, what I will say is it was tremendous savagery. And what is certain is that somebody wanted to kill," he said.

    Police also confirm 15 bullet casings were found at the scene. Is 3/4 bullets per victim too much for a professional hit?


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    #99
    ooPabsoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 542 ✭✭✭ooPabsoo


    brimal wrote: »
    Police also confirm 15 bullet casings were found at the scene. Is 3/4 bullets per victim too much for a professional hit?

    That'd probs depend on the weapon being used- which I don't think has been released yet? Like if it was an automatic it would spray more bullets.


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    #100
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    As witnesses to the crime might the two little girls they be sitting targets in the hoispital?

    I'd be fearful for their safety, but I trust the security is tight.


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    #101
    Mr.Crinklewood
    Registered Users Posts: 12,389 ✭✭✭✭Mr.Crinklewood


    brandon_flowers wrote: »
    At that point there would be very little difference in body temperature between a person dead for 8 hours in a warm car and a live person.

    One of the other interesting things is that the car was running when the cyclist arrived so I wonder if the guy was halted on purpose to be executed.

    News reports indicate that there were brake marks on the road.


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    #102
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    brimal wrote: »
    Police also confirm 15 bullet casings were found at the scene. Is 3/4 bullets per victim too much for a professional hit?
    Possibly, but five of the bullets had been used on the cyclist. He was probably shot from distance as he tried to escape and then a final shot to the head to finish him :(

    One reporter mentioned yesterday that there were no stray bullets - i.e. all of the 15 bullets had hit someone. Which is an exceptionally high hit rate, indicating a very experienced and very calm shooter. The three car occupants were all shot twice, first in the head, and then a second time for good measure. This was someone who knew what they were doing, it definitely wasn't a robbery gone wrong.

    (I know that actually leaves up to 3 bullets unaccounted for - the 7 year old wasn't shot four times - but no report seems to clarify)


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    #103
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    gozunda wrote: »
    The French are also hugely into their firearms and have been known to be a tad xenophobic. Take rural area ( the Alps) and as likley or not you get a crazy lone gunman that has a thing about non locals....


    Ok as conspiracy theories go this had a way to go

    I know it's the mirror but the linked story has many similarities including occupation of the father and the beating of the child....

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/french-alps-shooting-bears-eerie-1307564

    Beware of the nutjobs out here.....


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    #104
    Dave!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,857 ✭✭✭✭Dave!


    LordSutch wrote: »
    As witnesses to the crime might the two little girls they be sitting targets in the hoispital?

    I'd be fearful for their safety, but I trust the security is tight.

    They're under police protection anyway.


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    #105
    brimal
    Registered Users Posts: 1,216 ✭✭✭brimal


    seamus wrote: »
    Possibly, but five of the bullets had been used on the cyclist. He was probably shot from distance as he tried to escape and then a final shot to the head to finish him :(

    One reporter mentioned yesterday that there were no stray bullets - i.e. all of the 15 bullets had hit someone. Which is an exceptionally high hit rate, indicating a very experienced and very calm shooter. The three car occupants were all shot twice, first in the head, and then a second time for good measure. This was someone who knew what they were doing, it definitely wasn't a robbery gone wrong.

    I agree it wasn't some opportunist, thief, etc. I think it could be a hired gunman, with the family feud involving money (which British police have mentioned) as the motive. This is pure speculation of course. I just think the claims of Mossad doing this are completely unfounded & knee-jerk.


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    #106
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    People seem to be only saying Mossad because of the Iraqi connection? That would be akin to saying the IRA were involved, if they were Irish.


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    #107
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    French police have suggested it was possibly 'a crime gone wrong' or even a family related feud. The link blew also mentions warnings from British Home Office for tourists of a number of hijack scenarios...

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/9524537/France-shooting-Father-named-as-Saad-Al-Hilli.html


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    #108
    Uriel.
    Registered Users Posts: 8,061 ✭✭✭Uriel.


    It looks to be a professional attack, although motives are unclear.

    But, you would think that a professional would have put a bullet in the girl's head also rather than shot to the shoulder. (thankfully, he didn't for whatever reason) - perhaps he was disturbed by the cyclist before he got a chance to "finish the job".

    Also 15 shots fired, seems excessive for a professional execution.

    It certainly push me away from the theory that it was a cold hearted execution on political grounds...


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    #109
    IvyTheTerrible
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,949 ✭✭✭✭IvyTheTerrible


    Such a sad and strange story.

    Feel very sorry for the two girls, and the cyclist who had a newborn child.


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    #110
    Triangular
    Registered Users Posts: 217 ✭✭Triangular


    someone told me yesterday "they told a neighbour, they had to speak to the police when they got back from their holidays, but never said what it was about"

    but i haven't read/seen this source anywhere? Chinese Whispers aye


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    #111
    Boombastic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,496 ✭✭✭Boombastic


    Triangular wrote: »
    someone told me yesterday "they told a neighbour, they had to speak to the police when they got back from their holidays, but never said what it was about"

    but i haven't read/seen this source anywhere? Chinese Whispers aye

    The Daily Mail reported this yesterday.


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    #112
    Triangular
    Registered Users Posts: 217 ✭✭Triangular


    i've been looking on several sites for a follow up to what I was told, but have yet to find anything

    edit: The daily mail?? No wonder I couldn't find it! The paper that profits on chinese whispers


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    #113
    Boombastic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,496 ✭✭✭Boombastic


    Police are to question the brother of a British engineer murdered alongside his family in the French Alps about an 'inheritance dispute', it emerged today


    Daily Mail today :)


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    #114
    fishy fishy
    Registered Users Posts: 3,456 ✭✭✭fishy fishy


    the face is, nobody knows what happened - it's all speculation. I hope this doesn't turn into the shambles of a thread that the batman thread went into - people hurling abuse at others because they thought they had the story when in fact it was all heresay.

    Until anything is confirmed, nobody has any idea what happened.


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    #115
    IvyTheTerrible
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,949 ✭✭✭✭IvyTheTerrible


    Boombastic wrote: »
    Police are to question the brother of a British engineer murdered alongside his family in the French Alps about an 'inheritance dispute', it emerged today


    Daily Mail today :)
    According to French news, he presented himself to the police in London to clear his name.


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    #116
    Boombastic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,496 ✭✭✭Boombastic


    IvyTheTerrible wrote: »
    According to French news, he presented himself to the police in London to clear his name.

    I out the :) after the link, because I know the Daily Mail may not be accurate. RTE news just reported that they police are looking in to a family row, but it is only one line of inquiry.


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    #117
    Bipolar Joe
    Registered Users Posts: 3,443 ✭✭✭Bipolar Joe


    To all of these people saying that it looks like a professional attack, how in the fuck would you know what one looks like? Are you all secret agents fresh out of Black Briar?


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    #118
    Dave!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,857 ✭✭✭✭Dave!


    Bipolar Joe wrote: »
    To all of these people saying that it looks like a professional attack, how in the fuck would you know what one looks like? Are you all secret agents fresh out of Black Briar?
    Well we're hardly going to just tell you that, are we?


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    #119
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Triangular wrote: »
    someone told me yesterday "they told a neighbour, they had to speak to the police when they got back from their holidays, but never said what it was about"
    His next door neighbour (in the UK) said that before he left for his holidays, he'd asked the neighbour to keep an eye on his house as he suspected that something may happen. He did elaborate but the neighbour refused to tell the papers, he reported it to the police instead.


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    #120
    Dave!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,857 ✭✭✭✭Dave!


    seamus wrote: »
    His next door neighbour (in the UK) said that before he left for his holidays, he'd asked the neighbour to keep an eye on his house as he suspected that something may happen. He did elaborate but the neighbour refused to tell the papers, he reported it to the police instead.
    Jezus... the plot thickens!


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    #121
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    seamus wrote: »
    Triangular wrote: »
    someone told me yesterday "they told a neighbour, they had to speak to the police when they got back from their holidays, but never said what it was about"
    His next door neighbour (in the UK) said that before he left for his holidays, he'd asked the neighbour to keep an eye on his house as he suspected that something may happen. He did elaborate but the neighbour refused to tell the papers, he reported it to the police instead.


    Perhaps he was just asking the neighbour to keep an eye on the house as you do...in case something's happens - well like being burgled - which is a fairly common thing if you listen to the news....a bit of molehills to mountains there perhaps....


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