Parades commission is useless and toothless

Jelle1880

That 'research' seems to come mainly from republican websites, like ir-news, Ardoyne Republicans blog,...

Now, I'm not doubting that those websites are clued up as to who's who over there, but it's hardly compelling evidence.

TOMASJ

Jelle1880 wrote: »

That 'research' seems to come mainly from republican websites, like ir-news, Ardoyne Republicans blog,...

Now, I'm not doubting that those websites are clued up as to who's who over there, but it's hardly compelling evidence.

Did not hear the UVF denie that they are from that terriost group

Can'tseeme

I live in Belfast and what goes on in North Belfast feels like a million miles away.

My personal opinion of these parades is that they offer nothing to either community. Kids getting dragged into this nonsense is doing nothing but teaching hate. But they exist and people have a right to 'parade', etc.

Parading is a huge part of Loyalist/Protestant culture, they will pass Catholic Churches along certain routes. That it NOT an issue. How they behave passing a Church is. Going in circles, playing The Famine Song, is totally unacceptable, Sectarian and they were rightly punished by the PC. I was glad to see the heads of the main Protestants churches condemn this. The lack of condemnation from the Loyal Orders or Unionist Politicians and certain posters on this forum is shameful.

That Henry Joe McCracken Parade, organised by dissidents, is a mirror image of Loyalists contentious parades in the same area. I've no time for any of them, they offer nothing positive for either community.

SaoriseBiker

Jelle1880 wrote: »

Odd how certain people only show one side of the issue.

Perhaps people could take a look at this:

This was before and after a Republican band passed by an Orange Hall in Clifton Street.

Is it that odd that Loyalists feel as if the PC are against them, when there are no restrictions placed on such Republican parades ?

Please ignore the blatant irony of people wearing football tops from English clubs. :pac:

PSNI Chief Supt George Clarke said there is "no doubt" the violence was organised, however it is too early to say if paramilitaries were involved.

"The violence did come from both sides of the community but initially, certainly, it came from within loyalism," he told UTV. "That's a fact. "There was clearly orchestration, there's no doubt about that.

"Three hundred people on Clifton Street, masonry broken up by people using concrete saws, there's no doubt about orchestration, but I'm not going to stand here and tell you I believe an organisation was involved - it's frankly too early to say that."


http://www.u.tv/news/Trouble-clearly-orchestrated-PSNI/bb182278-d737-4c2e-be22-9a5e719dced0

SaoriseBiker

Listening to the Nolan show, very commendably the Methodist church have asked that FM Robinson should be vocal in denouncing the violence and those instigating it. Instead Robinson has been silent and let Dodds and McCausland do all the question dodging. Now we all know how Robinson and the gang have flirted with loyalists down the years when it suits them.

So much for unionist respect for " law and order " And just remember, their has been 62 of Robinson's police officers injured due to the loyalist riots, some ' First Minister '

whitelines

Fenian Army wrote: »

Thats not the case, they weren't allowed play music along the entire road, but they stopped and played outside the church. No one said they couldn't march. They got banned for playing sectarian songs. The two instances are not comparable at all, and you clearly have your facts wrong.

Churches have extra significance than ordinary buildings, or even protestant churches, due to the presence of the body and blood of christ inside, that's the catholic belief.

The republican parade was one commemorating a protestant. It was not sectarian. It was entirely legal and it broke no restrictions.

Why would an Irish Republican care what Catholics thought was inside their church? Surely a Republican would care about Protestant sensitivities every bit as much as Catholic sensitivities?

Why do you see a religious parade as somehow more offensive than a political parade? Surely it's the impact on those who the parade impinges on that matters - not the supposed motivation of the marchers?

whitelines

TOMASJ wrote: »

I think if you care to do some research you will find that they are UVF thugs

If IRA men got keys from the priest and stood stood on a balcony goading and videoing Loyalists walking the church your comparison would stand up,

As it is your orange hall is not a house of worship

Actually, religious observance does take place in Orange halls.

whitelines

SaoriseBiker wrote: »

Listening to the Nolan show, very commendably the Methodist church have asked that FM Robinson should be vocal in denouncing the violence and those instigating it. Instead Robinson has been silent and let Dodds and McCausland do all the question dodging. Now we all know how Robinson and the gang have flirted with loyalists down the years when it suits them.

So much for unionist respect for " law and order " And just remember, their has been 62 of Robinson's police officers injured due to the loyalist riots, some ' First Minister '

Perhaps Robinson is 'reaching out' to the Loyalist 'working class'? Isn't that what Republicans are always demanding?

Do The PSNI belong to Robinson? Do they also belong to McGuiness?

Does it worry you when police officers are attacked - or only when they are attacked by Loyalists?

the_syco

woodoo wrote: »

By the way what the hell was Pat Doherty of Sinn Fein doing helping one of those bands from castlederg apply for money.

Divide and conquer. Also the SF may be the protestants representative...

junder wrote: »

are we going to get put of the road? Is it right that we could put of our road?

Do the republicans march down "your" road?

=-=

Meh. Have them both sides in a field with all people made into two people tied together at the legs, and handbags at noon. About as useful as the current parades, but they'd get their anger out without harming anyone.

I still get asked if there are "parades and riots" near me when I'm abroad.

woodoo

Jelle1880 wrote: »

So a Roman Catholic Church is more important than any other religious building, how tolerant.

Jelle they are not comparable at all. Walking past an Orange Lodge that marches themselves can hardly be compared to walking past a church (of either religion). How in Gods name could the Orange Order get upset by marching past their lodge when marching is all they themselves seem to do.

TOMASJ

whitelines wrote: »

Actually, religious observance does take place in Orange halls.

You can have religious observance in your greenhouse,

That dosent make it the same as a church

You can also have UVF meetings in an Orange hall "that has happened in the past"

whitelines

TOMASJ wrote: »

You can have religious observance in your greenhouse,

That dosent make it the same as a church

You can also have UVF meetings in an Orange hall "that has happened in the past"

A 'church' is nothing but stones and mortar to any true Christian. The word church refers to all true believers collectively.

I don't mind where The UVF met.

TOMASJ

whitelines wrote: »

A 'church' is nothing but stones and mortar to any true Christian. The word church refers to all true believers collectively.

I don't mind where The UVF met.

So why the hullabaloo about HJY band passing Clifton Street Orange Hall is is made from something other than stones and mortar

whitelines

TOMASJ wrote: »

So why the hullabaloo about HJY band passing Clifton Street Orange Hall is is made from something other than stones and mortar

I've no idea. Have you any thoughts?

Chuck Stone

whitelines wrote: »

A 'church' is nothing but stones and mortar

And the Pyramids are just a big bunch of stones.

What would you know about 'true Christians' anyway.

I'm sure the inciter to hatred and all round scourge of the north 'Rev' Ian Paisley would consider himself a 'true Christian'.

Doesn't say much for 'true Christians'.

TOMASJ

whitelines wrote: »

I've no idea. Have you any thoughts?

About what? the hullabaloo about HJY band passing Clifton Street Orange Hall,
or what the the Orange Temple is built from,

whitelines

TOMASJ wrote: »

About what? the hullabaloo about HJY band passing Clifton Street Orange Hall,
or what the the Orange Temple is built from,

The hullabaloo.

TOMASJ

whitelines wrote: »

The hullabaloo.

Ask Jelle1880 a few posts back he was the poster who gave the one sided view on what happened at the "Orange stone and mortar building"

junder

Some breaking news for you.
Orange order has withdrawn its application to parade past the arydone shops this september

http://www.u.tv/News/Ardoyne-Covenant-parade-withdrawn/6bf32550-1ec0-41fa-bfae-7aaa35ba5537

Chuck Stone

junder wrote: »

Some breaking news for you.
Orange order has withdrawn its application to parade past the arydone shops this september

The situation seems to be cooling down somewhat which is good for the people of the north.

A LOYAL order apology to the priests and parishioners of a Belfast city centre Catholic church – viewed as unprecedented – has calmed some of the tensions around a massive Orange Order parade taking place in Belfast at the end of the month

irishtimes.com

.

Good to see that the calm heads seem to be prevailing.

woodoo

junder wrote: »

Some breaking news for you.
Orange order has withdrawn its application to parade past the arydone shops this september

http://www.u.tv/News/Ardoyne-Covenant-parade-withdrawn/6bf32550-1ec0-41fa-bfae-7aaa35ba5537

I don't trust the OO at all. Cancelling the application and apologising about the church. Something is brewing. I wonder what cunning plan they have up there sleeve.

junder

woodoo wrote: »

junder wrote: »

Some breaking news for you.
Orange order has withdrawn its application to parade past the arydone shops this september

http://www.u.tv/News/Ardoyne-Covenant-parade-withdrawn/6bf32550-1ec0-41fa-bfae-7aaa35ba5537

I don't trust the OO at all. Cancelling the application and apologising about the church. Something is brewing. I wonder what cunning plan they have up there sleeve.

Nice to see a posertive move well recieved

woodoo

junder wrote: »

Nice to see a posertive move well recieved

If its genuine and there isn't some monstrous plan for the covenant march then i think that is a good move and to be welcomed.

junder

woodoo wrote: »

junder wrote: »

Nice to see a posertive move well recieved

If its genuine and there isn't some monstrous plan for the covenant march then i think that is a good move and to be welcomed.

And just what 'monstrous' plan do you think they might have

woodoo

junder wrote: »

And just what 'monstrous' plan do you think they might have

I don't know Junder its just a feeling, possibly based on the past. We will see after the 28th Sep. If i am wrong i'll happily eat my words.

thecommietommy

Interesting perspective form the UK Independent, it could have been written bt Sinn Fein :eek:

Riots on the streets of Belfast look alarmingly like a return to the bad old days. Indeed, the sight of an Orange band marching in circles and playing a sectarian tune in front of a Catholic church may prompt claims that nothing has changed. Not so.

The symmetry that outsiders tend to see between Northern Ireland's Protestant and Catholic halves is superficial. The Protestant loyalist working-class community of the past was one where boys left school at 16 and moved straight into well-paid jobs in the shipyards or heavy engineering companies from which Catholics were excluded. Today, the jobs have gone but the culture, which placed a low premium on education, remains.
By contrast, the Catholic working class put much greater emphasis on schooling. With the legislating away of institutional anti-Catholic discrimination over the past decades, the Catholic community has had a lift distinctly absent in working-class loyalist areas, whose paramilitaries were behind this week's riots.
Politics may have delivered a peace in which the economy, investment and tourism have been normalised, but there has been no big peace dividend in terms of new jobs for either working-class community. Marches and parades – and disputes about them – are the tribal badges which attach to this divide. And where politics has absolutely failed is in attempts to replace the much-criticised Parades Commission which places conditions on republican and loyalist marches. Politicians on both sides came up with an alternative in 2010 but it was shelved after opposition from the Orange Order. The politicians gave up too easily, and these riots are the price.
One positive development has been that Presbyterian and Anglican Church leaders, who have previously tacitly supported the Orange Order, have this week roundly condemned it. The loyalist unemployed need jobs. But the Orange Order also needs to know that all sides – from Martin McGuinness to the Moderator of the Presbyterian Church – are intent on moving in a very different direction, leaving its members to keep marching round in circles.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/editorials/leading-article-belfast-riots-are-price-of-poor-politics-8104900.html

Jelle1880

TOMASJ wrote: »

Ask Jelle1880 a few posts back he was the poster who gave the one sided view on what happened at the "Orange stone and mortar building"

'One sided view' for trying to show the other side of the issue

Have you read the OP ?
Now there's a one sided view if ever I saw one, but trust you to agree with it.

By the way, since you seemed to have missed that point completely:
I'm not saying an Orange Hall is worth more than a Church, it was Fenian Army who seemed to imply that a Roman Catholic Church was more important.

Fenian Army

No heed was paid to the PC yet again with another march featuring sectarian songs and other prohibited behavior... loyalist supporters heckled bands which obeyed the ruling and played only hymns, and cheered those who didn't.

Fenian Army

Fenian Army wrote: »

No heed was paid to the PC yet again with another march featuring sectarian songs and other prohibited behavior... loyalist supporters heckled bands which obeyed the ruling and played only hymns, and cheered those who didn't.

They sound like you, only Loyalist.

Fenian Army

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

They sound like you, only Loyalist.

How so?
(considering you don't even know me)