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abortion

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    #212
    otto_26
    Registered Users Posts: 518 ✭✭✭otto_26


    Gongoozler wrote: »
    The woman is the one that has to physically go through with the pregnancy / birth, so I doubt it will ever be legal to make a woman abort / keep a child she wants / doesn't want, because the partner wants the opposite. Sucks donkey ass but hey, what can ya do.

    I don't mean that way, i mean in terms of child maintenance and responsibility for the child if the man doesn't want the child but the women does. Should the man be able to get rid of his responsibility for that child when its born by " aborting all responsibility of the child within the abortion time frame"

    I ask this because if it's ok for a women to not take responsibility for her actions is it ok for a man to do the same?


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    #213
    up for anything
    Registered Users Posts: 5,776 ✭✭✭up for anything


    otto_26 wrote: »
    Speaking of the pro abortion people and responsibility for your actions if I got a girl pregnant and its within the time frame to have an abortion (I want one but girl doesn't) should I be legally entitled to abort the child in terms of my legal and moral responsibility for that child once its born?

    For some people having an abortion is taking responsibility for their actions. Just because it doesn't fit in with your standards/morals/beliefs doesn't mean it's not taking responsibility.

    otto_26 wrote: »
    I don't think you can use that as an argument for free abortions for everyone in case the MAP doesn't work for a rape victim.

    They wouldn't be free except perhaps on the medical card.
    otto_26 wrote: »
    Speaking of the pro abortion people and responsibility for your actions if I got a girl pregnant and its within the time frame to have an abortion (I want one but girl doesn't) should I be legally entitled to abort the child in terms of my legal and moral responsibility for that child once its born?

    I would be happy to support your right to be legally entitled to abort your legal and moral responsibilities to any child you fathered. In fact I would go as far as to demand that you do so.
    otto_26 wrote: »
    I ask this because if it's ok for a women to not take responsibility for her actions is it ok for a man to do the same?

    Once again these women are taking responsibility for their actions. Why do you refuse to see this?
    otto_26 wrote: »
    Educating women on the importance of telling police and doctors of her rape straight away rather than free abortions for all just in case the MAP doesn't work is a far better solution along with a policy put in place for abortions were no rapist was charged.

    What would we do without you and your desire for our education!


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    #214
    otto_26
    Registered Users Posts: 518 ✭✭✭otto_26


    up for anything wrote: »
    For some people having an abortion is taking responsibility for their actions. Just because it doesn't fit in with your standards/morals/beliefs doesn't mean it's not taking responsibility.

    The only response i can give is that if 500,000 people believe that something that is wrong is right. It still doesn't make it right.

    (Just because it doesn't fit in with your standards/morals/beliefs doesn't mean it's not taking responsibility)
    If i father a child and think the best thing for the child is to not know me and just leave the mother and child that isn't taking responsibility it's the opposite..


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    #215
    otto_26
    Registered Users Posts: 518 ✭✭✭otto_26


    up for anything wrote: »


    They wouldn't be free except perhaps on the medical card.

    I meant everyone having abortions for any old reason just because its an convenience for them.

    up for anything wrote: »
    I would be happy to support your right to be legally entitled to abort your legal and moral responsibilities to any child you fathered. In fact I would go as far as to demand that you do so.

    Why? just asking question :rolleyes:


    up for anything wrote: »
    Once again these women are taking responsibility for their actions. Why do you refuse to see this?

    Because i don't see abortion as taking responsibility i see it as the opposite trying to justify abortion as actually taking responsibility is kinda scary..

    up for anything wrote: »
    What would we do without you and your desire for our education!

    Doesn't make any sense?


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    #216
    up for anything
    Registered Users Posts: 5,776 ✭✭✭up for anything


    otto_26 wrote: »
    The only response i can give is that if 500,000 people believe that something that is wrong is right. It still doesn't make it right.

    (Just because it doesn't fit in with your standards/morals/beliefs doesn't mean it's not taking responsibility)
    If i father a child and think the best thing for the child is to not know me and just leave the mother and child that isn't taking responsibility it's the opposite..

    So, who decides what is right and what is not right?

    If 'you' make a woman pregnant and then decide that the best thing for the child is not to know 'you' then 'you' are 100% right in that decision.
    otto_26 wrote: »
    I meant everyone having abortions for any old reason just because its an convenience for them.

    Why not? Why should abortions not be freely available?
    otto_26 wrote: »
    Why? just asking question :rolleyes:

    Just a feeling I have and I don't care if 500,000 other people disagree with it.
    otto_26 wrote: »
    Because i don't see abortion as taking responsibility i see it as the opposite trying to justify abortion as actually taking responsibility is kinda scary..

    If you say it, it must be so.
    otto_26 wrote: »
    Doesn't make any sense?

    Maybe some women are so traumatised by their rape that all they can think about is washing the touch and the bodily fluids of their rapists off and out of them. Maybe they can't bear to fast forward in their minds to a pregnancy or a need to prove rape in order to obtain an abortion. It could just be that all they have have ever learned about what they should do after a rape is wiped out by the terror and disgust of the act itself. Forcing them to present themselves to the police and intimate questioning and yet more invasive physical probing in order that they should be able, if they wish, to obtain an abortion some weeks later is abuse of their rights.


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    #217
    robman60
    Registered Users Posts: 2,223 ✭✭✭robman60


    mango salsa wrote: »
    So basically you think the woman should die instead of saving her life in a medical emergency!

    Seriously, you're continuing to misrepresent what I've written. I'll keep it very simple for you as you seem to have extreme difficulty understanding.

    I support medical intervention to save the mother's life, and if that medical intervention causes the unborn child to die I see it as an unpreventable tragedy.

    I still support it as it saves one of the two lives. If you're still unsure of anything I said, just ask, but please stop misrepresenting what I've written.


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    #218
    Khannie
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 37,485 Mod ✭✭✭✭Khannie


    Sharrow wrote: »
    Funny how few pro lifers are pro contraception and sex education.
    Seriously you'd think they'd be supporting such measures and helping fund them to
    prevent the number of unwanted pregnancies.
    An ounce of prevention being better then a pound of cure.

    Where are you getting that idea from? I'm pro life and I am also strongly in favour of contraception and sex education. My wife fits exactly the same bill. Amazingly we're perfectly rational people and still pro life.

    I'm not aware of a single one of my friends or family who are pro life being anti-contraception or anti-sex-ed. Quite the opposite in fact. Maybe you need to readjust your perception of "pro lifers" a bit.


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    #219
    EZ24GET
    Registered Users Posts: 6,017 ✭✭✭EZ24GET


    I don't believe in abortion. Where I live you can legally obtain abortions for any reason. I realize that there are exceptions, incest, rape, mother's life at risk etc. but I have witnessed abortion as a means of birth control. One girl I worked with had two abortions then kept the third child hoping the father would keep her. When that didn't work out she became pregnant again and went on to have another abortion. The government footed the bill. I think this has nothing to do with accepting the responsibility for the pregnancy. I hope this isn't becoming the custom. With so many means of preventing an unwanted pregnancy I can't comprehend this sort of behavior. Ideally men and women should be equally responsible ( and responsibility should begin when a couple decide to have unprotected sex- not when there is a resultant conception) but I can't see how that is possible. The men in this girls life didn't suffer any inconvenience.


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    #220
    Sligo Quay
    Registered Users Posts: 732 ✭✭✭Sligo Quay


    greenpilot wrote: »
    Cardinal wants a referendum on abortion. Would he loose? Would there be a backlash against the church?
    A backlash against what, a dying lion, this is not the 1950s, the world has moved on, but the Church has not.
    What I don't understand, the Roman Catholic Church has this sacred view on protecting the ''unborn'' and yet this same Church abused ''born'' children for decades, moved pedifile priests around, covered up their crimes against children instead of reporting them to the Gardai. It doesn't make sense, its a hyprocritical form of view, its makes no sense, they have this sacred view of protecting unborn children, but failed to protect born children and covered up the crimes. No Im afraid the Roman Catholic Church don't have the high moral ground on Abortion, too many skeletons in their own closets.


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    #221
    crazy cabbage
    Registered Users Posts: 738 ✭✭✭crazy cabbage


    I am pro-arbortion

    Do people here realise that having an abortion is a very traumatic experience. It isn't something that you would go and do every other weekend. A very good friend of mine had one what she was younger and she described it as being raped by a hoover.
    I realize that there are exceptions, incest, rape, mother's life at risk etc.

    I don't think anyone whould dispute that in the case of rape, women should be alloud to have an abortion. That (in my eyes) is common sence.
    Extending from that, how do we prove that a women was raped? By the courts surly. We all know that the court system can take years to bring someone accused of a crime to proving it and standing before judge and jury, by which time the child is born.
    So what do we do there? If someone shouts rape then they can have an abbortion? That will leave tons of men being accused of crimes that they didn't commit so that the woman can have an abortion.

    That can't work

    Unless we seperate having an abortion becouse of rape from actully proveing that the woman was raped in the courts. This will leave a situation where anyone who wants an abourtion, just has to put 'rape' on the form
    Will also leave a situation were one group of women who are willing to lie are allowed to have their abortion and another group who can't.

    maby i am missing something. You said that in the case of rape that women should be allowed to have an abortion. how whould this be implemented? I can't see how

    Or we could just legalise (with alot of controls naturaly).

    my 2 cents


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