**Spoilers** Series 7, Episode 1 - "Asylum of the Daleks"

GSPfan

connemara man wrote: »

I really enjoyed it but it was missing the endgame. most episodes usually have an inkling of an end game ie the cracks in space, that small thread that ties all the random events together and focuses them on one point the place. I either didn't see it or it wasn't there

Oswin Oswald was your endgame. She is the overall story arch to this series. Its just not as in your face as a crack!

Wing126

Got a nice chuckle out of this.

Sleepy

I quite like the idea of a companion that's so tragically doomed, particularly if, as Das Kitty pointed out she turned out to be the Doctor's "daughter".

Have never felt so old in my life as seeing people being surprised at the BBC's lack of ads! And I'm only 32!

pixelburp

It's not the Doctor's Daughter. I will stake my many fortunes on this; as much as people might like it to be (why, I don't know), that character is well & truly lost in the mists of RTD-time.

Raphael

pixelburp wrote: »

It's not the Doctor's Daughter. I will stake my many fortunes on this; as much as people might like it to be (why, I don't know), that character is well & truly lost in the mists of RTD-time.

A) RTD had nothing to do with that episode other than an exec producer credit
Her living at the end was Moffats idea, in the original script she stayed dead.

pixelburp

Raphael wrote: »

A) RTD had nothing to do with that episode other than an exec producer credit
Her living at the end was Moffats idea, in the original script she stayed dead.

Never said he did, but it was an episode from his era. And I'm aware Moffat suggested that she stay alive, but that's not proof of anything other than the fact Moffat was obviously the only one who realised that killing her off was not only a waste, but made no sense if she was supposed to be a timelord. If anything, she has been jettisoned from the mythology, and completely forgotten in the series. Thank god.

Das Kitty

Not that daughter (I really tried to come up with some line about having a child with your own hand, but I'm so very tired). A new one.

Jessibelle

The thing that struck me about the episode, more so on a second watching is the emphasis on memory. 11 says to Amy in the parliament that she has to 'make the daleks remember her', and then she sees all the inner daleks, (the 'memories' of who they were?), Rory has to remember what makes his marriage work, and then the Oswin breaking the 4th wall 'Remember you clever boy'. I know it might be stretching it a bit, but it put me in mind so much of the cracks story line where it was so so important that they all remembered, that it made me wonder if the cracks are having some influence on the final Pond story line?

Ridley

The touching of the robe stuff is a bit much for me, but it would be nice if the episode had as much depth as this guy's interpretation.

Tzar Chasm

The bit about pacifist Daleks make a surprising amount of sense, I too found it a bi odd that the ones in intensive care were unarmed, and the forcefield only being operable from the planet, a logical theory on the nanites would be that the dalek empire created them in an attempt to re-dalekify the inhabitants of the planet.
Tldr
Daleks find beauty in hatred and violence so surely their version of dangerous insanity would be pacifism

MrVestek

There was a line in this that I noticed on both viewings.

At one point Oswin says 'No idea, haven't met you before'. The way in which she says it seems very suspicious to me... like they have already met but she hasn't exactly revealed who she really is yet.

Personally I hope it's Jenny although I remember fan theory mooting her existence in the last two series too. It wouldn't make sense to have had Jenny be ressurected and then not use her for anything else ever.

Also we have no idea what timeframe the episode takes place in so it could easilly be within Jenny's lifetime and is certainly after the time war so it is very far into The Doctor's timeline.

Just a thought...

The Master

Watch this episode a few times now and like it less and less each time sadly.

It just felt like a "set up" episode, Introduce Oswald and pad a story around it.



It's Ok Doctor, they've never heard of You/Time Lords/Time War/TARDIS etc..

EDIT: just to complete the cycle.
As Oswald is a female character She must be The Rani/Romana/Jenny/Susan/Sally Sparrow/Rose/Martha.....

Doctor DooM

The Master wrote: »

EDIT: just to complete the cycle.
As Oswald is a female character She must be The Rani/Romana/Jenny/Susan/Sally Sparrow/Rose/Martha.....

Obviously, she's Amy.

The Master

Doctor DooM wrote: »

Obviously, she's Amy.

Who is in fact River song and Hamlet's grandson is Shakespeare's grandfather and he himself is the ghost of his own father

old hippy

I seem to recall that it was hinted many years ago that the Doctor and Merlin were one and the same...

Raphael

pixelburp wrote: »

Never said he did, but it was an episode from his era. And I'm aware Moffat suggested that she stay alive, but that's not proof of anything other than the fact Moffat was obviously the only one who realised that killing her off was not only a waste, but made no sense if she was supposed to be a timelord. If anything, she has been jettisoned from the mythology, and completely forgotten in the series. Thank god.

But so were Blink and Silence in the Library. Or the Impossible Planet, not written by Moffat. Yet the Angels, River, and the Ood have all been around post-RTD.

If Moffat thought killing her was a waste, wouldn't it be just as much of one, if not more to just forget about her and pretend she never existed? And by my understanding (which I'll happily admit as possibly wrong) doesn't being genetically Gallifreyan not neccessarily make you a Time-Lord/able to regenerate?

All being said, I don;t think Oswin is Jenny. But I doubt we've seen the last of her.

Doctor DooM

Raphael wrote: »

And by my understanding (which I'll happily admit as possibly wrong) doesn't being genetically Gallifreyan not neccessarily make you a Time-Lord/able to regenerate?

On this side topic, this is a popular theory, and the odd time it's alluded to, but I don't think we can say it's definite.

However, we HAVE seen 2 "untrained" characters regenerate now (Jenny and River) so even if it is the case, it appears anyone even a little Time Lordish around the ears can regenerate.

BaconZombie

Das Kitty

That blog (Paint Doktah Who) is so hit and miss, but sometimes it's genius.

ríomhaire

Ok only just got around to seeing it. I enjoyed it overall but it just seems that Moffat isn't the same Moffat that wrote the Doctor Dances any more. His plots used to be so coherent with nary a pointless detail. Everything would come together at the end and everything introduced fit in in some way. In this is seemed like there were so many needless plot points shoved in (Why do Daleks suddenly have a parliament? Why is Skaro back if it only featured for one minute? etc.). He's been getting like that since at least Flesh and Stone. It's like he's picked up a bit of Russel T. Davis syndrome. I also don't like how he trivialises Amy and Rory's relationship by having them bloody divorcing at the start of the episode (and the reason given is that Amy has never heard of adoption) and have them fixed up perfectly again forty minutes later. Really really bugged me that.


Overall I did enjoy it though.

ixoy wrote: »

What are the spoiler rules this year? Lots of people talking about the new companion - I've been able to keep myself totally locked away but it seems I'm being spoilt in this thread itself. I didn't even know who had been cast.

Yeah this happened to me too. I had no idea that anything was supposed to be up with a new companion and I waltz on the internet expecting to discuss one particular episode and see everyone saying this unspoilered. Here and on Reddit.

Doctor DooM wrote: »

On this side topic, this is a popular theory, and the odd time it's alluded to, but I don't think we can say it's definite.

However, we HAVE seen 2 "untrained" characters regenerate now (Jenny and River) so even if it is the case, it appears anyone even a little Time Lordish around the ears can regenerate.

Jenny regenerated? I figured the terraforming/lifeseeding equipment brought her back to life. She doesn't change in appearance at all and it used the same special effect as the terraforming thing.

Wing126

The Doctor Who video games that are out are canon. They explain parts of the story that Moffat didn't include in the TV show, like why the Daleks are back in full strength.

Das Kitty

ríomhaire wrote: »

I also don't like how he trivialises Amy and Rory's relationship by having them bloody divorcing at the start of the episode (and the reason given is that Amy has never heard of adoption)

No.

Fertility struggles are the furthest thing from trivial. It's lonely, terrifying and soul destroying. Adoption is not a fix, adoption can be just as difficult. I've seen it tear even the strongest marriages to shreds, and lets face it, the Ponds were never the best communicators.

I liked the resolution, tbh. I liked that Rory acted like an insecure plank, dropped the mister perfect act for once. I liked that the who loves who more thing was addressed and dealt with. They were left on an equal footing at the end. So IMO it wasn't for nothing, it developed the characters.

OU812

At least the feckin Daleks didn't fly.

InisMor

Is the "actress" who played Oswin really the replacement for Karen Gillan?

Mother of the Divine!!!

I know I shouldn't judge her based on the crap dialogue written by another, but are my Doctor Who days numbered?

It was bad enough Gillan and Darvell (did he have much choice, I wonder?) are shuffling off, but to have the next companion constantly talking about the Doctor's chin will just do my head in.

Nearly as bad a character as that River Song wan!!! The only positive is that the very sight of her doesn't churn the stomach like that auld one.

I assume the actress will be playing an ancestor or the like of Oswin.

Here is hoping that it is some kind of bluff but cover up a plotless and that Rory and Amy are not leaving - at least not getting killed anyway.

Doctor DooM

Das Kitty wrote: »

No.

Fertility struggles are the furthest thing from trivial. It's lonely, terrifying and soul destroying. Adoption is not a fix, adoption can be just as difficult. I've seen it tear even the strongest marriages to shreds, and lets face it, the Ponds were never the best communicators.

I liked the resolution, tbh. I liked that Rory acted like an insecure plank, dropped the mister perfect act for once. I liked that the who loves who more thing was addressed and dealt with. They were left on an equal footing at the end. So IMO it wasn't for nothing, it developed the characters.

Not to trivialise the real world heartache of the situation, but this series is set in a universe where someone cloned off a daughter of the Doctor from a sample of blood.

Admittedly, we have to ignore these things sometimes for the sake of narrative

old hippy

InisMor wrote: »

Is the "actress" who played Oswin really the replacement for Karen Gillan?

Mother of the Divine!!!

I know I shouldn't judge her based on the crap dialogue written by another, but are my Doctor Who days numbered?

It was bad enough Gillan and Darvell (did he have much choice, I wonder?) are shuffling off, but to have the next companion constantly talking about the Doctor's chin will just do my head in.

Nearly as bad a character as that River Song wan!!! The only positive is that the very sight of her doesn't churn the stomach like that auld one.

I assume the actress will be playing an ancestor or the like of Oswin.

Here is hoping that it is some kind of bluff but cover up a plotless and that Rory and Amy are not leaving - at least not getting killed anyway.

What a horrible way to describe a great and beautiful actress

ríomhaire

Das Kitty wrote: »

No.

Fertility struggles are the furthest thing from trivial. It's lonely, terrifying and soul destroying. Adoption is not a fix, adoption can be just as difficult. I've seen it tear even the strongest marriages to shreds, and lets face it, the Ponds were never the best communicators.

I liked the resolution, tbh. I liked that Rory acted like an insecure plank, dropped the mister perfect act for once. I liked that the who loves who more thing was addressed and dealt with. They were left on an equal footing at the end. So IMO it wasn't for nothing, it developed the characters.

Sorry I misspoke and threw in the adoption line out of annoyance (I was ironically, also trivializing their relationship by letting my annoyance make me say stupid things). I don't think he was trivializing it because fertility problems are trivial. I think he was trivializing it for introducing the problem and solution in one episode. A marriage breaking down should be a big story in these people's lives, not relegated to 40 minutes of screen time. They were in such a bad way that they were getting a divorce after being married for years at this point and the Doctor fixes it without even being in the same room as them. I think he was trivializing it because it presents that there is an easy solution to massive marital problems, thus making the problems seem petty and unimportant (and of course the problem isn't just infertility it's also lack of communication).

Das Kitty

ríomhaire wrote: »

Sorry I misspoke and threw in the adoption line out of annoyance (I was ironically, also trivializing their relationship by letting my annoyance make me say stupid things). I don't think he was trivializing it because fertility problems are trivial. I think he was trivializing it for introducing the problem and solution in one episode. A marriage breaking down should be a big story in these people's lives, not relegated to 40 minutes of screen time. They were in such a bad way that they were getting a divorce after being married for years at this point and the Doctor fixes it without even being in the same room as them. I think he was trivializing it because it presents that there is an easy solution to massive marital problems, thus making the problems seem petty and unimportant (and of course the problem isn't just infertility it's also lack of communication).

In a way I agree, but in another bigger way I don't want the programme to be a soap opera.

The problem was 100% the lack of communication, which is why I personally didn't think it was outside the realms of possibility for Space Gandalf to get the two of them talking.

I doubt it's 100% resolved, I'd say we'll see more on the subject before they leave.

Mr.Saturn

Was the bare-Dalek in the parliament meant to be Caan, The Emperor or some other random naked-Dalek?

jasonb

I'm not sure, but I think the Doctor called him Caan?

J.