**Spoilers** Series 7, Episode 1 - "Asylum of the Daleks"

Das Kitty

Ooh, and just to note...

The Doctor doesn't know what she looks like.

gufnork

Das Kitty wrote: »

The soufflé is a LIE!

Heh heh... I can see this passing into comon usage,

...hmmm, it is a great painting but it's no souffle.
...I love you so very much my sweet but, well... you're no souffle.
...I just adore Amy, but she's certainly no souffle.

Duggys Housemate

The Doctor will probably meet a future version of Dana Oswin, saved in some sense from the asylum. Not a past version of her, nor one from his future in a reverse timeline like Song. We always go forward with his timeline, of course.

Q&A

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

The Doctor will probably meet a future version of Dana Oswin, saved in some sense from the asylum. Not a past version of her, nor one from his future in a reverse timeline like Song. We always go forward with his timeline, of course.

She may have "uploaded" herself before she was destroyed (or should that read if she was destroyed) .. give her a few episodes to (re)built her human body using Dalek technology (they've gone down the body route before after all) and she'll be as good as new .. ...


The doctor was very clear in the episode that whatever else she was she was a Dalek so if this was to transpire there could be a lot of tension and mistrust between the doctor and companion .. rich story material there

Nice idea of the Doctor and a Dalek companion.. who'd have thought

Wing126

gufnork wrote: »

Over on Gallifrey base there's talk of Oswin being her surname,

...so Clara Oswin maybe?

She said at least twice that her name was "Oswyn Oswald".
Could be that she ends up as a distant relative to Oswyn? Clara Oswald maybe?
Like with Gwenyth, from the episode with Charles dickens, and Gwen from Torchwood?

gufnork

I'm wondering if we're missing something very, very obvious here. It is an Asylum for Daleks after all, and it clearly was a Dalek. Maybe it really does just think it's a human girl. Maybe we haven't actually met her at all yet and are just being sucked into an insane Daleks delusions? It's a thought...

Wing126

Probably, It is Moffat after all. He's stated that at the end of Sherlock, that Sherlock did something completely out of character that nobody picked up on.

The way I'm taking it anyway, is that Clara, If that is the name of the new companion, and Oswyn are definitely different characters. And if the rumours that the new companions name is Clara are untrue, then the new companions name is Oswyn. If that makes sense.

Also, does anyone else love how they didn't break the episode for ads?

Duggys Housemate

The bbc doesnt have adds?

MrVestek

Wing126 wrote: »

Probably, It is Moffat after all. He's stated that at the end of Sherlock, that Sherlock did something completely out of character that nobody picked up on.

The way I'm taking it anyway, is that Clara, If that is the name of the new companion, and Oswyn are definitely different characters. And if the rumours that the new companions name is Clara are untrue, then the new companions name is Oswyn. If that makes sense.

Also, does anyone else love how they didn't break the episode for ads?

Yeah the BBC doesn't have any ads.

Wing126

Oh right. Never really watched the bbc before. Watched Doctor Who online before this season.

coffee_cake

Some of the companions have a history of appearing as totally different characters anyway before becoming companions
martha was a random person in an iron men episode while rose was in it
and there was another i forget now

wench

bluewolf wrote: »

and there was another i forget now

Amy was a seer at Pompeii

The Idyll Race

Wing126 wrote: »

Oh right. Never really watched the bbc before. Watched Doctor Who online before this season.

What age are you? Never watched the BBC before? Fúck I must be getting old. Back in 1971 there was only RTE (one channel) and BBC1 for us, so we watched the BBC all our lives in my house.

Duggys Housemate

wench wrote: »

Amy was a seer at Pompeii

bluewolf wrote: »

Some of the companions have a history of appearing as totally different characters anyway before becoming companions
martha was a random person in an iron men episode while rose was in it
and there was another i forget now

Neither had dominant talking roles. Look she took the shield down, clearly she could protect herself.

Das Kitty

bluewolf wrote: »

Some of the companions have a history of appearing as totally different characters anyway before becoming companions
martha was a random person in an iron men episode while rose was in it
and there was another i forget now

That was before they were cast as companions though. Jenna was announced in and around the time they started filming.

(Eve Myles was also in an early episode before she was cast for Torchwood).

pixelburp

bluewolf wrote: »

Some of the companions have a history of appearing as totally different characters anyway before becoming companions
martha was a random person in an iron men episode while rose was in it
and there was another i forget now

Iron-men? Those would be Cybermen dear; lol

Actors may have appeared previously in different parts, but usually they've tended to be bit-parts in one scene, and long before they were ever considered as the new companion; Coleman's character was pretty central to the entire episode, and we already know she's taking over the companion reigns later in the series.

And how on earth could someone watch TV and not know the BBC are the channel without 'de ads. I would have assumed that's simply common knowledge.

coffee_cake

cybermen too tired

yeah it's true they didn't have prominent roles
my thought on watching it was maybe he'll download her somehow :pac: the human fella still looked human a year after dying maybe it can be reversed, duno

pixelburp

The irony in all this is Moffat said there was no grand arc this season, that most of the episodes would be standalone stories without any interlinking plot elements; and yet only one episode in and we're already debating the ramifications of Coleman's appearance, and how it all fits in with future stories.

Wing126

The Idyll Race wrote: »

What age are you? Never watched the BBC before? Fúck I must be getting old. Back in 1971 there was only RTE (one channel) and BBC1 for us, so we watched the BBC all our lives in my house.

pixelburp wrote: »

And how on earth could someone watch TV and not know the BBC are the channel with 'de ads. I would have assumed that's simply common knowledge.

Hah, I don't watch the actual television much. I usually watch everything online/download, except when I'm really looking forward to a new episode of something.

The Idyll Race

pixelburp wrote: »

The irony in all this is Moffat said there was no grand arc this season, that most of the episodes would be standalone stories without any interlinking plot elements; and yet only one episode in and we're already debating the ramifications of Coleman's appearance, and how it all fits in with future stories.

"Rule one, the Doctor lies"

And so does the Moff. Long live the Moff!!

BlitzKrieg

Hmmm


I enjoyed the episode itself pacing wise and storywise for the future.

But it bugged me as an episode coming in off the last season.

I wouldnt give RTD much credit over Moffet but as medicore as he has been with them he has somewhat been consistent with linking the dalek storylines. Ok he was crap with excuses on bringing them back, but he does address how they come back in some form (mutant, void, Crazy Caan)

Having suddenly Skaro, the dalek parliament (a parliament??? they are alien nazis! why would they have a paliament) and all this stuff back with no explanation bugs me when the last time we saw the daleks it was the 4 skittles daleks escaping.

But aside from those I enjoyed the episode. I was annoyed that they called him the predator instead of the oncoming storm initially but it's referenced at the end .

The *doctor who?* line was actually pretty good because it's now one of the possible scenarios that the previous season was warning about, the daleks must never find the answer to this question and if ya one dalek is the companion then it could work as a nice arc.


As for dalek companion...I'd thought it might be nice if they did possibly do a season where the companion is stuck in the tardis all the time. Either as a dalek on it or a program/hologram. It could be something different.

Ridley

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

(a parliament??? they are alien nazis! why would they have a paliament)

They haven't had a chance to blame the Cybermen for burning it down yet?

I'm kinda indifferent to the episode. I did like the Ponds basically getting dragged along because they're seen as tools The Doctor needs to get the job done as well as Rory being allowed to do something on his own but the appearance of Coleman's debut was entirely lost on me because I've barely followed the news on her. Maybe if I'd known more about her I wouldn't have figured out the Dalek reveal. Seen other people online got there through being reminded of some other movie, while my thinking was that someone trapped in that 'room' for a year couldn't have stayed sane.

What I did find odd was the lack of a River Song mention. Ms. Pond seemed to have forgotten about her while saying she couldn't give Rory children. Sure, she was robbed of her daughter's childhood but a line amid the divorce dialogue relating to Melody would have been appreciated. Of course, that may lead somewhere but it stands out to me.

Episode wasn't terrible, it just didn't get anywhere near the brilliance of Eleventh Hour or the close of Day of the Moon. Plus, unless I missed something, the conversion thread has been left hanging.

Mr.Saturn

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

Having suddenly Skaro, the dalek parliament (a parliament??? they are alien nazis! why would they have a paliament) and all this stuff back with no explanation bugs me when the last time we saw the daleks it was the 4 skittles daleks escaping.

In fairness, I take your point, but I've long since guessed that the whole purpose of the cracks in the universe (the Doctor explicitly referenced the Cyber-King walking through Victorian London) and Big Bang 2 to be Moffat's attempt to sweep what backstory he wants to pick and choose at.

Admittedly, it makes for some narrative holes and nitpicks, but I understand the move, considering, by the end of the RTD era, Earth and humanity had been invaded so often, the only shocker was that anyone still reacted to it. Plus, The Doctor's character has been so thoroughly explored and deified, that it'd be hard to continue on in that direction without diluting the character somewhat, so I do appreciate he's playing with it a bit, even if it means the Dalek/Doctor rivalry is put on ice for a bit.

Wibbs

I enjoyed it too, but like you...

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

I wouldnt give RTD much credit over Moffet but as medicore as he has been with them he has somewhat been consistent with linking the dalek storylines. Ok he was crap with excuses on bringing them back, but he does address how they come back in some form (mutant, void, Crazy Caan)

Having suddenly Skaro, the dalek parliament (a parliament??? they are alien nazis! why would they have a paliament) and all this stuff back with no explanation bugs me when the last time we saw the daleks it was the 4 skittles daleks escaping.

This is a large way. Now to be fair the Who universe has never been very internally consistent compared to other Scifi franchises, but even before the reboot when it was aimed at a younger audience there was more consistency. What happened to "oh they all died in the time war, but the odd one escaped"? "Oh and we've evolved into bigger daleks while we're at it*". Now we have an entire battlefleet and Skaro is still on the go. Pity the Timelords didn't read that part of the how to keep coming back from the dead manual. Though maybe Moffat is angling for a bit of that down the line?

Like others I thought it also a bit odd to have an actor about to be companioned up in such a central role as a completely different character. OK he never saw her face, so wouldn't recognise her if she was the same person, but still odd.


*I note the new Duplo Daleks were kept in the background. They've not been exactly popular with fans so maybe that's why? Maybe they'll quietly phase them out? Though it may well have just been production concerns. They've only a couple of them as props. The older stylee they have slightly more, but there's a load of fan built ones out there(and you can buy an official replica IIRC)so numbers would be easier to make up. Still prefer them to the newer ones.

Wing126

Skaro was never destroyed though. It was another planet that the Daleks terraformed to look like Skaro to trick Davros into destroying that one.
As for how they got back, that's explained in one of the video games.

"The Daleks decided to terraform the planet Antalin to resemble Skaro as a decoy and manipulated Davros and the Doctor into ensuring that Antalin was destroyed in place of the original Skaro. (EDA: War of the Daleks)"

"After the new Progenitor Daleks escaped, they travelled to Skaro and rebuilt the Dalek Emperor, their city of Kaalann and later their whole Empire. "

http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Skaro

GSPfan

Did you all notice Oswins finals words. She tells the doctor to remember her. Then she says to herself "run you clever boy, and remember". But she looks at the camera as she says remember. Its like a subtle way of telling the audience to remember her cause she'll be back.

Love Moffats story archs. They are clever.

pixelburp

Well in fairness, given it's a time-travel show, we don't know where in history that Dalek fleet exists - perhaps it's a pre Time-War Dalek fleet, and the Skaro we see is pre Remembrance of the Daleks.

*eyes go cross-eyed*

Glad to see the Power Rangers Daleks relegated to the background; I suspect the production team underestimated the audiences love for the golden design. It really was & still is a smashing look for the pepperpots, the new ones look so cheap, plastic & rubbish.

That said, I suppose the Daleks being made to forget the Doctor is the last big piece to Moffat's removal of RTD's mythology. The deification of the Doctor had pretty much rendered him useless as a character, and the stakes had risen so exponentially that the idea of invasion was positively mundane. Part of the fun with the old-series was seeing the Doctor trot into scenarios where he was a total stranger & had to spar with everyone around to take control. All the nonsense of "I'm the Doctor, the Oncoming Storm, rarrrrr I am myth incarnate" had become just that.

On the other hand, the Doctor's stubborn desire to slink back into the shadows could yet bite him on the ass, and be part of Moffats long-game; the Daleks may have strengthened through their hatred for the Doctor (I loved the idea of the Daleks seeing hatred as beauty, a creepy & brilliant idea), but surely a totem who can strike fear in the hearts of Daleks everywhere is better for the universe?

amen

I did like the Ponds basically getting dragged along because they're seen as tools The Doctor

I'm not so sure. I think there was significance to the ponds speech where Rory claims to love Amy more then she him and vica versa. To me this leads to their departure/death.

I wonder is Jenna the Doctors lost "time lord" daughter from the reboot or even his original grand daughter?

campo

amen wrote: »

I did like the Ponds basically getting dragged along because they're seen as tools The Doctor

I'm not so sure. I think there was significance to the ponds speech where Rory claims to love Amy more then she him and vica versa. To me this leads to their departure/death.

I wonder is Jenna the Doctors lost "time lord" daughter from the reboot or even his original grand daughter?

This was the 1st thing I thought was that jenna must be the doctors daughter , as she was a quirky genius

Killer_banana

I'm kind of surprised how much everyone liked this episode. It wans't bad but it wasn't that good. It just felt like something was missing the whole time. i'm not sure why but it did.

I like Oswin and didn't see the dalek twist coming. I'm glad there was some reason for her to be able to 'hack' things the way she did 'cause I felt like we were being told how wonderfully fabulous she was all episode and I like when companions are just people. Good people, smart people, sure but just people. If we had a companion who was a hacker so good she could hack the dalek hivemind (something the doctor himself couldn't do) I'd be annoyed. I am, like everyone else, quite confused as to how she'll be a companion now though. I do not want a reverse timeline AGAIN.

Although the make up scene melted my heart the Rory and Amy divorce added nothing to the characters or show as a whole and seemed completely pointless. I also disliked that the Doctor could fix it (like he fixes his bowtie) 'cause that's not how life works. It also felt quite of place with everything Moffat did attempting to portray the Doctor as a person and not a God.

If the Doctor didn't need his armband thing why not give it to Amy earlier instead of risking her turning into a dalek puppet? I did like 'Scared isn't Dalek, hold on to scared.'

My favourite quote has to be 'You're just a tricycle with a roof'. I don't even remember the context (besides it was directed at a Dalek) but it made me laugh loads.