New Dublin Bus GT Class

Cookie_Monster

MarkMc wrote: »

There should be a big sign in the stairwell, facing you as you come down the stairs. Telling people to use the centre doors. Some people will still remain oblivious, but DB need to reinforce the message at every point.

all a bit pointless when the majority of drivers seem not to use them.

dfx-

Rock Steady Edy wrote: »

I disagree that the doors are in the wrong place. I only visit London now, but used to live there in the mid to late 1980s and there was a double decker then (the Metrobus, I think they called it - think they might have all been decommissioned now) where the centre doors were right opposite the stairs. It just caused a big jam, as people on short journeys tended to congregate around the doors rather than bother finding a seat, making it difficult for people to exit having come down the stairs. The GT design seems to have learnt from this experience.

The ex-Airlink AVs would contradict that. People still congregate at the 'centre' doors downstairs which are well away from the flow coming from the stairs.

smurfs5

Got a brand new GT to school yesterday morning on the 31 route. Love the newbuses . The seats are more shaped to give back support and there is more leg room. The wifi is great as well. I was pleased to see the centre doors being opened at my stop but the position of the stairs relative to said doors meant that, for a split second, I nearly turned right to exit through the front doors. I'd imagine this will be a problem initially so I do hope DB drivers enforce the principle of "enter at the front, leave at the centre."

The_Wrecker

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

all a bit pointless when the majority of drivers seem not to use them.

I drove one for the first time yesterday and used the rear doors. Quite a few people bailed out too especially when the front exit slowed. From a drivers viewpoint, the open/close/front/rear buttons are close together and small font signage ~ so was careful not to partake in any beheadings. But my hands adjusted after a while.

rx8

2 new GT's on the No. 1 today. GT72 and GT73.

Drove 73 this afternoon and have to say, I like it a lot....

Tried to use both doors when I could, but it's not always possible to get the middle ones near the kerb. Also found that people were walking past the open centre doors in order to exit at the front.

Also people. ... have some respect and bring your rubbish home with you, and keep your bloody feet off the seats.

dublinbusdude

rx8 wrote: »

2 new GT's on the No. 1 today. GT72 and GT73.

Drove 73 this afternoon and have to say, I like it a lot.....

Were you on it at around after 4ish heading to Sandymount?

rx8

dublinbusdude wrote: »

Were you on it at around after 4ish heading to Sandymount?

Yep that was me.

dublinbusdude

Nice! I was shocked to see the R/end GTs out yesterday - hope one shows up on the 49

AlekSmart

rx8 wrote: »

2 new GT's on the No. 1 today. GT72 and GT73.

Drove 73 this afternoon and have to say, I like it a lot....

Tried to use both doors when I could, but it's not always possible to get the middle ones near the kerb. Also found that people were walking past the open centre doors in order to exit at the front.

Also people. ... have some respect and bring your rubbish home with you, and keep your bloody feet off the seats.

There is,to my mind,a little work yet to be done in relation to the Centre-Door operation.

I am of the belief that the Door Controls,The Suspension Drop and the Ramp Buttons should ALL be grouped within a hand-span of the applied handbrake lever.

The GT Door Buttons are,I feel,somewhat widely spaced and not defined enough for intuitive operation.

I tend to find myself visually checking that the correct button is in use,which takes away from what should be virtually automatic operation.

My jury is out on the fitting of a third,dual operation,button,as I've not really found it of much benefit,as if the two buttons were closer together they could be pressed simultaneously anyway.

Overall though,the GT is a fine machine indeed,with only a few minor issues which are being remedied.

The 2012 order is now nearly complete,with still no confirmation as to the 2013 situation....

rx8

Any idea why they have disabled the camera scrolling switch or the cab controller stalk buttons? Or are they working in Donnybrook?
I know I'd like to be able to see what some of the scum-bags are doing upstairs.

The_Wrecker

rx8 wrote: »

Any idea why they have disabled the camera scrolling switch or the cab controller stalk buttons? Or are they working in Donnybrook?
I know I'd like to be able to see what some of the scum-bags are doing upstairs.

Same as our own. The left screen shows the centre doors and the right is the upper saloon stairs. The EV stalk didnt work while under warranty.;)

The_Wrecker

AlekSmart wrote: »

There is,to my mind,a little work yet to be done in relation to the Centre-Door operation.

I am of the belief that the Door Controls,The Suspension Drop and the Ramp Buttons should ALL be grouped within a hand-span of the applied handbrake lever.

The GT Door Buttons are,I feel,somewhat widely spaced and not defined enough for intuitive operation.

I tend to find myself visually checking that the correct button is in use,which takes away from what should be virtually automatic operation.

My jury is out on the fitting of a third,dual operation,button,as I've not really found it of much benefit,as if the two buttons were closer together they could be pressed simultaneously anyway.

Overall though,the GT is a fine machine indeed,with only a few minor issues which are being remedied.

The 2012 order is now nearly complete,with still no confirmation as to the 2013 situation....

A few of us have had similar issues with Buttons and fears of battering some old one with the doors. I think these buttons should be on the dash and little used buttons like internal lights should be hidden on the right panel.

Mr Simpson

Just on a 29a GT, it would have made so much more sense to swap the wheelchair space and centre doors around. That way the doors would be opposite the bottom of the stairs.

River Song

Since Ringsend got the GTs, I've been seein the odd R/End AV on the 54a. Any reason?

Also was on GT7* tonight on the 49. Grand as always.

I've got GTs on the 33 a few times in the morning when going to work. Never once has the centre door been used. Same again when I got one on a 29A last week.

LXFlyer

MarkMc wrote: »

Just on a 29a GT, it would have made so much more sense to swap the wheelchair space and centre doors around. That way the doors would be opposite the bottom of the stairs.

I am not sure having doors directly opposite the bottom of a staircase is the safest option in the world.

This design works perfectly well in London because people do instinctively go to the centre door to get off.

The problem here is threefold:
1) Habit - Irish people will constantly go to the front door
2) The fact that the rest of the fleet does not have a centre door does not help - people don't think about it
3) Drivers are simply not operating these buses in the manner they are supposed to. Centre doors should and must be opened at every stop as a matter of course.

LXFlyer

River Song wrote: »

Since Ringsend got the GTs, I've been seein the odd R/End AV on the 54a. Any reason?

Also was on GT7* tonight on the 49. Grand as always.

I would be surprised if you saw a Ringsend bus on the 54a, as it is a Donnybrook route.

However, buses may have transferred from one depot to another as part of a cascade resulting from the new buses arriving.

lxflyer

lxflyer wrote: »

I would be surprised if you saw a Ringsend bus on the 54a, as it is a Donnybrook route.

However, buses may have transferred from one depot to another as part of a cascade resulting from the new buses arriving.

I've seen EV69, a Harristown bus, on the 123 several times over the last month or two.

ax586

Karsini wrote: »

I've seen EV69, a Harristown bus, on the 123 several times over the last month or two.

EV69 is on loan to summerhill garage I think it's covering the missing VG that was in a crash.

AlekSmart

lxflyer wrote: »

I am not sure having doors directly opposite the bottom of a staircase is the safest option in the world.

This design works perfectly well in London because people do instinctively go to the centre door to get off.

The problem here is threefold:
1) Habit - Irish people will constantly go to the front door
2) The fact that the rest of the fleet does not have a centre door does not help - people don't think about it
3) Drivers are simply not operating these buses in the manner they are supposed to. Centre doors should and must be opened at every stop as a matter of course.

All well and good except for 3.....

Whatever the arguements regarding the situation,the current over-riding instruction is,since 1992,covered by one of the few Labour Court Judgements actually transcribed into a registered agreement.

http://www.labourcourt.ie/labour/labcourtweb.nsf/afedb93f6ed4a54180256a01005bb357/80256a770034a2ab8025627500451c43?OpenDocument

The salient point is here...

Subject to the above the Court considers that the centre doors
should normally be operated. Recognising the responsibility of
the Driver for his vehicle and passengers, whilst he should
normally operate the centre doors, he should carry out this
operation with prudence. Accordingly the Court considers that an
instruction to compulsorily operate the centre doors at all times
would be inappropriate.

It can be argued that things have actually disimproved since 1992 in Dublin,as can be evidenced by the situation at,for example,Westmoreland Street or the bottom of Grafton Street,locations where I am often loath to open one door,never mind a second !

All that being said,I make every effort to use both doors whenever I have a GT,as I did with an RV,RA or RH for the past 20 years,so no change there...;)

And there the matter rests,m'Lud

CIE

lxflyer wrote: »

I am not sure having doors directly opposite the bottom of a staircase is the safest option in the world.

This design works perfectly well in London because people do instinctively go to the centre door to get off.

The problem here is threefold:

1. Habit - Irish people will constantly go to the front door
2. The fact that the rest of the fleet does not have a centre door does not help - people don't think about it
3. Drivers are simply not operating these buses in the manner they are supposed to. Centre doors should and must be opened at every stop as a matter of course.

Passenger-operated centre doors on buses have been around for over a half-century. Like head-end power on passenger trains, though, Ireland seems reluctant to use this normal, proven and long-standing bit of technology. Why is that?

LXFlyer

AlekSmart wrote: »

All well and good except for 3.....

Whatever the arguements regarding the situation,the current over-riding instruction is,since 1992,covered by one of the few Labour Court Judgements actually transcribed into a registered agreement.

http://www.labourcourt.ie/labour/labcourtweb.nsf/afedb93f6ed4a54180256a01005bb357/80256a770034a2ab8025627500451c43?OpenDocument

The salient point is here...



It can be argued that things have actually disimproved since 1992 in Dublin,as can be evidenced by the situation at,for example,Westmoreland Street or the bottom of Grafton Street,locations where I am often loath to open one door,never mind a second !

All that being said,I make every effort to use both doors whenever I have a GT,as I did with an RV,RA or RH for the past 20 years,so no change there...;)

And there the matter rests,m'Lud

Alek I appreciate the fact that you do try to use them, but the reality is that the vast majority of your colleagues are not.

Of course there are some locations where I agree it is not safe - and Westmoreland Street is a prime example 95% of the time. The 11 stop is nothing short of a disgrace.

However there are numerous examples of perfectly safe locations where drivers are just not bothering to operate the system as it should be. I could ream them off in a long list. Frankly that in my eyes is totally unacceptable.

Either drivers operate the doors as they are supposed to be used or (as Conway365 suggested) they move to a route operated by single door buses. It is not good enough and frankly just makes Dublin Bus look stupid, when onboard systems are telling passengers to do one thing and drivers just continue as if the centre doors didn't exist.

the groutch

yeah t'other day I waited at the middle door when about to get off the 7 at Marine Road Dun Laoghaire (what I'd consider to be a major stop that would benefit from use of middle doors), and the driver didnt open it, so I was forced to literally sprint for the front door and barge through people already getting on, drawing the ire of both them and the driver.
all because I did exactly what the display told me to do.

bk

the groutch wrote: »

yeah t'other day I waited at the middle door when about to get off the 7 at Marine Road Dun Laoghaire (what I'd consider to be a major stop that would benefit from use of middle doors), and the driver didnt open it, so I was forced to literally sprint for the front door and barge through people already getting on, drawing the ire of both them and the driver.
all because I did exactly what the display told me to do.

And this is the major issue, it must start with all drivers using the center doors at all times, otherwise passengers just aren't going to risk having to sprint to the front door if the driver decides not to open it.

Really it is a ridiculous situation, most other countries in Europe can operate 3 or 4 door buses, even at stops that are similarly rubbish, with no issues.

BabyBirch

bk wrote: »

And this is the major passenger, it must start with all drivers using the center doors at all times, otherwise passengers just aren't going to risk having to sprint to the front door if the driver decides not to open it.

Really it is a ridiculous situation, most other countries in Europe can operate 3 or 4 door buses, even at stops that are similarly rubbish, with no issues.

I have given up playing chicken with the 7 drivers, the first time it happened I didn't sprint fast enough and he pulled away from my stop before I could get out. Infuriating.

BabyBirch

BabyBirch wrote: »

I have given up playing chicken with the 7 drivers, the first time it happened I didn't sprint fast enough and he pulled away from my stop before I could get out. Infuriating.

I've had a couple of situations like this, though none where I missed the stop thankfully. Because of that I don't bother now, I just go up to the front because I know the likelihood of the driver opening the centre doors is slim.

devnull

Personally I'd be interested to see what would happen if a passenger stood their ground in such situation and had an all out row about it as they were so angry

For example, passenger waits to get out center doors, driver does not open them, passengers misses their stop and has an argument with the driver and will not let it drop.

In any case, if things don't change I think there should be a complete funding freeze on vehicles for Dublin Bus until they use their existing ones to full potential which they are not doing now.

It's all well and good Dublin Bus be critical of the environment they find themselves in which is tough, but before they get any further help they really need to sort issues such as this out.

Also lets not solely blame the drivers for this issue, it's a clear sign of bad management. If there is an order from head office to use the doors and drivers do not then clearly drivers feel they can ignore such orders or it won't be come down on hard enough by management.

If there is not an order to use the center doors from management then they need to twig that the days of getting vehicles handed over to them to their own specification and demands are well and truly over.

The fact is it's not unreasonable for the NTA and government to expect some return in exchange for investment in the Dublin Bus fleet. Of course if Dublin Bus don't like the conditions they are not forced to accept free vehicles.

I'm sure other companies would be more than happy to take up the offer of such gifts and of course if Dublin Bus wants to dictate vehicle policy, their parent company always has the right to use their own funds.

Victor

devnull wrote: »

In any case, if things don't change I think there should be a complete funding freeze on vehicles for Dublin Bus until they use their existing ones to full potential which they are not doing now.

In fairness, if stops were of adequate size and weren't obstructed, this argument would stand up a lot more.

BabyBirch

devnull wrote: »

Personally I'd be interested to see what would happen if a passenger stood their ground in such situation and had an all out row about it as they were so angry

For example, passenger waits to get out center doors, driver does not open them, passengers misses their stop and has an argument with the driver and will not let it drop.

Haha, that's exactly what I did! I was really annoyed, when I missed my stop I asked why he hadn't let me out as it was obvious that I had wanted to get off and was waiting at the centre doors (I was the only one getting off at that stop). He said "we don't use the middle doors" and refused to speak to me again until I got off at the next stop. I was angry but polite about it - he was incredibly rude

CIE

the groutch wrote: »

yeah t'other day I waited at the middle door when about to get off the 7 at Marine Road Dun Laoghaire (what I'd consider to be a major stop that would benefit from use of middle doors), and the driver didnt open it, so I was forced to literally sprint for the front door and barge through people already getting on, drawing the ire of both them and the driver.
all because I did exactly what the display told me to do.

On systems that have driver-operated centre doors versus passenger-operated, I have observed that ringing the "next stop" bell is a requirement for passengers to signal the driver to open the door for them, and once the passengers are off, the driver shuts the door behind them to stop people boarding through that centre door. For convenience's sake, there would be a button installed right next to the centre door for this purpose.

All of this precedent has been available for study and consideration to those who run CIE and Dublin Bus/Bus Eireann for decades, literally. Why was none of it implemented? After all, there have been centre-door buses in Ireland ever since the second batch of CIE-bodied Atlanteans were put into service; it should never have been the case that the only place the centre door was ever used was at a bus stop labelled "Set Down Stop Only" in An Lár. And it's 2013, already.