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Gay Marriage/Marriage Equality/End of World?

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    #7322
    keane2097
    Registered Users Posts: 17,770 ✭✭✭✭keane2097


    130_eapoe.jpg?itok=FSmvi_Ei


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    #7323
    aloyisious
    Registered Users Posts: 11,582 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    Re paedophilia, I wanted to know how this word popped up here recently and scrolled back page 482 and Morgana's video about coming out as a lesbian following her reading a Deloitte study report in The Advocate magazine. There is no mention of paedophila in it.

    A question was posed by macyard about why gay life expectancy was reduced and smokingman replied "I would imagine it's the stress and high blood pressure of having to be equated with paedophiles and the like by fúcking bigots, y'know like". Macyard's reply was: Why aren't priests life so low so, they are equated as paedophiles even more then the gays and receive more hate too.

    On page 484 macyard's response to Bannaside was this: They made the claims first until they post their evidence I don't have too either they where the one that posted first. The poster said that life expectancy was lower due to links to paedophilia if you can supply evidence it will have to mention it as it was the fact he posted.

    To me, smokingmans reply to macyard sound's like his opinion on why gay life expectancy was likely to be reduced, not a claim based on a study. I don't understand why macyard can't tell the difference between an opinion-quote AND a statement requiring peer-reviewed study proof. macyard on page 486 today at 1230 "That's why I I don't believe SMOKINGMAN's statement and have being arguing against it and calling for evidence of his claim" and to smokingman at 1239 today "I see you still haven't posted that peer reviewed academic study that people linking paedophilia with gays reduces gays life expectancy"

    To me this "debate" between macyard and others about an honest reply/opinion doesn't need a study to back it up, it is silly and time wasting on a thread about civil marriage.


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    #7324
    macyard
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 380 ✭✭macyard


    aloyisious wrote: »
    Re paedophilia, I wanted to know how this word popped up here recently and scrolled back page 482 and Morgana's video about coming out as a lesbian following her reading a Deloitte study report in The Advocate magazine. There is no mention of paedophila in it.

    A question was posed by macyard about why gay life expectancy was reduced and smokingman replied "I would imagine it's the stress and high blood pressure of having to be equated with paedophiles and the like by fúcking bigots, y'know like". Macyard's reply was: Why aren't priests life so low so, they are equated as paedophiles even more then the gays and receive more hate too.

    On page 484 macyard's response to Bannaside was this: They made the claims first until they post their evidence I don't have too either they where the one that posted first. The poster said that life expectancy was lower due to links to paedophilia if you can supply evidence it will have to mention it as it was the fact he posted.

    To me, smokingmans reply to macyard sound's like his opinion on why gay life expectancy was likely to be reduced, not a claim based on a study. I don't understand why macyard can't tell the difference between an opinion-quote with a statement requiring peer-reviewed study proof. macyard on page 486 today at 1230 "That's why I I don't believe SMOKINGMAN's statement and have being arguing against it and calling for evidence of his claim" and to smokingman at 1239 today "I see you still haven't posted that peer reviewed academic study that people linking paedophilia with gays reduces gays life expectancy"

    To me this "debate" between macyard and others about an honest reply/opinion doesn't need a study to back it up, it is silly and time wasting on a thread about civil marriage.

    Thanks for going through it, I was called out for needing a study for my opinion so I called him out for his study, both where opinions. If I need studies for my opioions so does he

    I questioned his opinion cause I cannot see the link to an early death in what he posted and if it did it would effect others which I don't think it does.


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    #7325
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    macyard wrote: »
    I pm'd bannasidhe to ask if he wanted me to answer this direct question or not but from the reply he does.

    I since 07 when the main sjw pc click took over the femnazi's and radfems have pushed me pretty right(I was mostly in female circles). Like if this vote was in 07 I would have been voting yes straight away, I also don't like these people attack religion and free speech and although I am agnostic I will fight the removal of our culture and free speech.

    I love that the liberals are fighting to remove christian religion and free speech against Islam and is incurriging Islam cause of diversity and minorities, I hope in years to come it comes to it's logical conclusion as Muslims will fight for their religion and culture and the pc crwod will bend over to the unprivileged minority they are. Then see how your gay culture is in shira controlled Ireland.

    I only replied as it was a direct question and pm'd you to see if you actually wanted me to reply

    Look up 'Rhetorical'

    As for your rhetoric ... :rolleyes:


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    #7326
    aloyisious
    Registered Users Posts: 11,582 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    macyard wrote: »
    Thanks for going through it, I was called out for needing a study for my opinion so I called him out for his study, both where opinions. If I need studies for my opioions so does he

    I questioned his opinion cause I cannot see the link to an early death in what he posted and if it did it would effect others which I don't think it does.

    I'd imagine that being subject to verbal abuse can cause body stress, blood pressure levels, one's sense of being with side effects on mental and body health in others. Certainly I know that name-calling and abuse does have side-effects. It's a health issue, different to the issue of equalization of civil marriage between homosexual and heterosexual couples. Hopefully we can now move on on this debate away from typing responses about opinions on how name-calling can effect one's health and longevity.


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    #7327
    macyard
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 380 ✭✭macyard


    aloyisious wrote: »
    I'd imagine that being subject to verbal abuse can cause body stress, blood pressure levels, one's sense of being with side effects on mental and body health in others. Certainly I know that name-calling and abuse does have side-effects. It's a health issue, different to the issue of equalization of civil marriage between homosexual and heterosexual couples.

    But my point is why doesn't it reduce life expectancy in priests, imo roman Catholic priests get called out more for these things then homosexuals but we don't see that reduction in life expectancy.

    So I think that line of though on why life expectancy in homosexuals is reduced is faulty.


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    #7328
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,053 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    aloyisious wrote: »
    Re paedophilia, I wanted to know how this word popped up here recently and scrolled back page 482 and Morgana's video about coming out as a lesbian following her reading a Deloitte study report in The Advocate magazine. There is no mention of paedophila in it.

    A question was posed by macyard about why gay life expectancy was reduced and smokingman replied "I would imagine it's the stress and high blood pressure of having to be equated with paedophiles and the like by fúcking bigots, y'know

    In fairness I think that was in relation to Macyards continuous linking of paedophilia and gay around the site

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057363998

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=93940224&postcount=1014

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=93940266&postcount=1016

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=93881431&postcount=134

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #7329
    B_Wayne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,039 ✭✭✭B_Wayne


    macyard wrote: »
    I have never said all homosexuals are paedophile only ones that abuse kids are, in this thread I have being trying to say the public think there is less homosexuals that abuse kids then priests that abuse kids but got flack for it.

    But I don't think all homosexuals or priests are child abusers only the small minority are the ones that abuse kids

    Bann provided you with a link earlier that it's pretty much impossible to attribute sexual orientation as heterosexual or homosexual for paedophiles. Linking either to paedophilia would be incorrect. Maybe go back to link and read it?


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    #7330
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,053 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    macyard wrote: »
    But my point is why doesn't it reduce life expectancy in priests, imo roman Catholic priests get called out more for these things then homosexuals but we don't see that reduction in life expectancy.

    So I think that line of though on why life expectancy in homosexuals is reduced is faulty.

    Your point is you are soapboxing around the site about the tenuous links between gay men and paedophilia. Nothing more. Nothing less.

    You were even banned from AH for this.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #7331
    SpaceTime
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,088 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    macyard wrote: »
    But my point is why doesn't it reduce life expectancy in priests, imo roman Catholic priests get called out more for these things then homosexuals but we don't see that reduction in life expectancy.

    So I think that line of though on why life expectancy in homosexuals is reduced is faulty.

    No, actually despite everything, they're still mostly given a lot of respect and are pillars of the community backed by one of the most powerful organisations on the planet.

    That's hardly comparable to a gay person isolated in some homophobic place or in the relativity recent past.

    Also I think most of us are not idiotic enough to think that you can tar every priest with the same brush either.


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    #7332
    macyard
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 380 ✭✭macyard


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    Your point is you are soapboxing around the site about the tenuous links between gay men and paedophilia. Nothing more. Nothing less.

    You were even banned from AH for this.

    I was banned for showing the hypocrisy of the strawman that if you dislike gays you are secretly gay, I was pushing that logic to the extreme to show it's a stupid link to make. I will be back in AH in a few days


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    #7333
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,053 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    macyard wrote: »
    I was banned for showing the hypocrisy of the strawman that if you dislike gays you are secretly gay, I was pushing that logic to the extreme to show it's a stupid link to make. I will be back in AH in a few days

    And what about the personal attacks against me?

    Noted that dont dispute the soapboxing part by the way.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #7334
    macyard
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 380 ✭✭macyard


    SpaceTime wrote: »
    No, actually despite everything, they're still mostly given a lot of respect and are pillars of the community backed by one of the most powerful organisations on the planet.

    That's hardly comparable to a gay person isolated in some homophobic place or in the relativity recent past.

    Ireland or a liberal city in North American like the woman comes from are not some homophobic places imo.

    Most gays in Ireland get a lot of respect from the pillars of the community, is their any recent thing where they have not.


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    #7335
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,053 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    macyard wrote: »
    Ireland or a liberal city in North American like the woman comes from are not some homophobic places imo.

    Most gays in Ireland get a lot of respect from the pillars of the community, is their any recent thing where they have not.

    You mean like when posters like yourself constantly try to show tenuous links between gay and paedophilia?

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #7336
    Shrap
    Registered Users Posts: 3,163 ✭✭✭Shrap


    Slight change of subject. Something occurred to me there an hour ago when I was shopping in the nearest town and bumped into a couple I know from the village we live in. I hadn't met them in a good while as we never had kids in the same schools and none of us go out as much as we used to. Anyhow, we were talking about how our kids were getting on, as you do, and how long since we saw each other. Remembering back, the last time I met them was just after they got engaged and they said "Janey, that was 2 years ago!".

    The interesting part of this is that we didn't talk about the current issue of the referendum. I didn't think of it. It was only when I got back in the car that I realised that they're two women who can't get married yet. What occurred to me is that our whole village celebrated their engagement with them, as a totally ordinary, average thing to do.

    I hope they can get married soon. Forgot to say it to them.


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    #7337
    SpaceTime
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,088 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    macyard wrote: »
    Ireland or a liberal city in North American like the woman comes from are not some homophobic places imo.

    Most gays in Ireland get a lot of respect from the pillars of the community, is their any recent thing where they have not.

    Until very recently they most certainly were and all western societies still are to some extent.
    Most people here until perhaps the generation who are teenagers or early 20s now experienced life in a very homophobic society. Bear in mind that homosexuality was ILLEGAL here until the 1990s.

    Gay people are still facing a society where they can't really be totally open.

    Try walking through Dublin holding hands with another guy. Try it in the UK, France or most of North America perhaps with the exception of San Fran....

    Things have improved spectacularly and very rapidly but there's a huge amount of legacy issues and also long term damage to older generations who faced really bad treatment.

    Gay people still face being executed in some countries.


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    #7338
    macyard
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 380 ✭✭macyard


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    And what about the personal attacks against me?

    Noted that dont dispute the soapboxing part by the way.

    When did I get personal with you? I cannot see the AH posts as I am banned for a few days but I don't remember anything personal


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    #7339
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,053 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Suggesting my sexual orientation was a choice
    macyard wrote: »
    You didn't know you where gay? I though you where born gay I understand you might not tell others but you should have know unless if was choice later in life

    By the way. You might have missed my questioning response.

    When did you choose to be straight?

    Again its noted you dont dispute that you are soapboxing.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #7340
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    macyard wrote: »
    Ireland or a liberal city in North American like the woman comes from are not some homophobic places imo.

    Most gays in Ireland get a lot of respect from the pillars of the community, is their any recent thing where they have not.

    Since you are not homosexual nor do you appear to have grown up in Ireland, never mind a liberal city in North America, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

    You are completely dismissing people's life experiences based on your own lack of understanding and knowledge of the societies in which they live.

    What you are doing is akin to me going into the Islam forum and saying anyone from the UK who complains about Islamophobia is lying because the UK is liberal, has a large Muslim population and Muslims are well respected pillars of the community.

    Now, is there any chance you would deal with the topic of this thread?

    I'll remind you:

    Would you like to discuss why in a western democracy one set of citizens who happen to belong to a minority should be denied rights and privileges available to the majority?

    Do you believe all citizens of a democratic Western European society should be treated equally under the law?

    If not, can you provide a non-religiously based argument why one minority set of citizens should continue to have less legal rights in a Western European democracy which has legislation on it's Statute Books declaring that discrimination against that particular minority is illegal?


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    #7341
    SpaceTime
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,088 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    Ah sure that's just "treating different people differently" which apparently isn't discrimination at all.

    It's just emm.. that other thing that to can do when you make up your own dictionary and distort logic.


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    #7342
    macyard
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 380 ✭✭macyard


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    Suggesting my sexual orientation was a choice



    By the way. You might have missed my questioning response.

    When did you choose to be straight?

    Again its noted you dont dispute that you are soapboxing.

    Sorry if you thought that was an attack.

    I didn't choose to be straight, I am bi ploy, I sleep with men and women, but I knew growing up I liked girls and boys, you said in that post you didn't know as a kid so kinda gave the impression your realization came later.

    Is soapbox in not spreading your opinion, I see a lot of soapbox in going around to vote yes


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    #7343
    keane2097
    Registered Users Posts: 17,770 ✭✭✭✭keane2097


    macyard came into the thread pretending to be a polygamist voting no because the referendum wouldn't allow polygamy. Just in case anyone missed that.


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    #7344
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    macyard wrote: »

    Is soapbox in not spreading your opinion, I see a lot of soapbox in going around to vote yes

    Soap boxing is when you repeat the same thing over and over again while ignoring any evidence to the contrary and refusing to engage in an actual discussion. Discussion requires one to expand on ones points not merely repeat them.


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    #7345
    macyard
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 380 ✭✭macyard


    keane2097 wrote: »
    macyard came into the thread pretending to be a polygamist voting no because the referendum wouldn't allow polygamy. Just in case anyone missed that.

    I am poly and the wording of the bill does discriminate against poly people they purposely went out of they way to do that, the hate I have got from fem nazi's and radfem since 07 over being poly and the hypocrisy they show if we try to get rights is what put me off voting yes, hence why I have always said if this was 07 I would have voted yes in a heart beat.

    Yes I am jaded and the liberal left hypocrisy has pushed me further right from my centrist views of past


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    #7346
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,053 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Soapboxing is spreading your opinion constantly and refusing to listen to or acknowledge any differing opinions.

    You have continuously soapboxed around this site about tenuous gay and paedophilia links. You continuously refuse to address any and all contra evidence put to you.

    Thats why smokingman insinuated you are a bigot and blamed your posts for causing stress and poor mental health amongst lgbt people because your continuous soapboxing is bigotry and shameful.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #7347
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,053 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    keane2097 wrote: »
    macyard came into the thread pretending to be a polygamist voting no because the referendum wouldn't allow polygamy. Just in case anyone missed that.

    Indeed. And Macyard has been shamefully soapboxing bigotry around the site.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #7348
    macyard
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 380 ✭✭macyard


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    Indeed. And Macyard has been shamefully soapboxing bigotry around the site.

    I was met with bigotry when I first posted here, did that effect my opinion of the user base maybe, there is only one yes side supporter I have found fair since my first posts here aloyisious you do your side proud


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    #7349
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,053 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    By the way I was bloody well hurt by your personal attacks and it is continuously hurtful to have to read your bigoted soapboxing about tenuous links between gay people and paedophiles.

    Like smokingman I will continue to point out your bigotry and soapboxing around the site.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #7350
    david75
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,611 ✭✭✭david75


    Derailed into a train wreck I see. That's a shame.


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    #7351
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    macyard wrote: »
    I am poly and the wording of the bill does discriminate against poly people they purposely went out of they way to do that, the hate I have got from fem nazi's and radfem since 07 over being poly and the hypocrisy they show if we try to get rights is what put me off voting yes, hence why I have always said if this was 07 I would have voted yes in a heart beat.

    Polygamy is illegal in Ireland. Marriage between two people is not.

    This referendum is to decide whether marriage as it currently exists - i.e. between two people - can be contracted between two people of the same gender.

    Polygamy is a completely different issue and if you wish to see it introduced begin a campaign for it. That is how democracy works.

    I am slightly confused - you say you are a non- native English speaker (although I have notice you slip in to fluency on occasion) , you seem to have little knowledge or understanding of Irish society or history, so I am guessing you are a fairly recent arrival - can you actually vote in this referendum?


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