Sky broadband launches in Ireland

bealtine

FaganJr wrote: »

Sky will be able to provide me with 50 MB broadband before the end of the year, upc will NEVER be able to provide me with any service except **** tv.

Where did you get that nonsense from? Haven't you even read what Sky themselves say?

Sky will only be able to provide whatever eircom will provide at some date in the future, Sky have no infrastructure of their own, none whatsoever.

UPC TV may well be crap but their broadband is first class.

FaganJr

bealtine wrote: »

Where did you get t nonsense from? Haven't you even read what Sky themselves say?

Sky will only be able to provide whatever eircom will provide at some date in the future, Sky have no infrastructure of their own, none whatsoever.

UPC TV may well be crap but their broadband is first class.

Where to start?

Eircom will be providing me with 30 MB broadband next month, upgraded to 50MB by end of year. fibre to road copper to dwellings.
Is that simple enough for you in particular.

UPC can't even provide 56k outside of the areas mentioned, hence they are rubbish.....

PogMoThoin

FaganJr wrote: »

Where to start?

Eircom will be providing me with 30 MB broadband next month, upgraded to 50MB by end of year. fibre to road copper to dwellings.
Is that simple enough for you in particular.

UPC can't even provide 56k outside of the areas mentioned, hence they are rubbish.....

Exactly, Eircom can provide it, not Sky. Sky are not providing anything, they have no network, they are not building one.

FaganJr

PogMoThoin wrote: »

Exactly, Eircom can provide it, not Sky. Sky are not providing anything, they have no network, they are not building one.

Sky are providing it through BT / Eicom as a reseller.
I don't care about the backhaul.

PogMoThoin

FaganJr wrote: »

Sky are providing it through BT / Eicom as a reseller.
I don't care about the backhaul.

I'm not talking about backhaul, I'm talking about last mile. Sky cannot provide anywhere Eircom can't therefore they bring nothing new to the Irish market. It's not competition if they are all reselling the same product. Sky are doing nothing but bundling it up in a package with pay TV to make it sell.

BTW, you were wrong about UPC. They may be able to bring you broadband over Eircom fibre. http://www.siliconrepublic.com/comms/item/31279-eircom-agrees-to-allow/

FaganJr

PogMoThoin wrote: »

I'm not talking about backhaul, I'm talking about last mile. Sky cannot provide anywhere Eircom can't therefore they bring nothing new to the Irish market. It's not competition if they are all reselling the same product. Sky are doing nothing but bundling it up in a package with pay TV to make it sell.

BTW, you were wrong about UPC. They may be able to bring you broadband over Eircom fibre.

Thanks for link, interesting read. I can't see UPC using eircom in fairness though. Not saying it couldn't happen.

Anyone who has pay TV, broadband and home phone will be very interested in what sky will be offering. Triple play packages are very popular in UK.

Also I hear eircom will be offering phone, mobile, broadband and TV in the coming months.

Interesting times for pay TV.

PogMoThoin

Sorry, but this thread is in the IrelandOffline forum, a lobby group campaigning for better broadband for EVERYONE. None of us regulars here care what bells and whistles Sky are offering, the fact is they are offering nothing new.
http://irelandoffline.org/

FaganJr

PogMoThoin wrote: »

Sorry, but this thread is in the IrelandOffline forum, a lobby group campaigning for better broadband for EVERYONE. None of us regulars here care what bells and whistles Sky are offering, the fact is they are offering nothing new.
http://irelandoffline.org/

I know who irelandoffline is, and I'm posing from a mobile at the moment, was wondering what the witch hunt was about?

Can't believe your reaction to a broadband reseller, bit OTT in fairness.

Sky will be a game changer in the areas I mentioned, triple and quadruple play providers.

Not at all in broadband, how could a reseller change anything?

Apologies for confusion.

bealtine

FaganJr wrote: »

I know who irelandoffline is, and I'm posing from a mobile at the moment, was wondering what the witch hunt was about?

Can't believe your reaction to a broadband reseller, bit OTT in fairness.

Sky will be a game changer in the areas I mentioned, triple and quadruple play providers.

Not at all in broadband, how could a reseller change anything?

Apologies for confusion.

More nonsense sorry, too many people expect some sort of magic from Sky, that somehow they'll provided better broadband, I see these expectations in the broadband forum all the time.

The bottom line is if eircom cannot provide you with broadband then that's it, if eircom can only provide 3MB/s that's all you'll get and so on. Sky offer nothing more than what's there already. The only thing Sky bring to the table is possibly better pricing if you take the TV package as well as some excellent marketing so they won't be changing even the slightest little thing , so no "game changing" is imminent.

clint_silver

bealtine wrote: »

More nonsense sorry, too many people expect some sort of magic from Sky, that somehow they'll provided better broadband, I see these expectations in the broadband forum all the time.

The bottom line is if eircom cannot provide you with broadband then that's it, if eircom can only provide 3MB/s that's all you'll get and so on. Sky offer nothing more that what's there already. The only thing Sky bring to the table is possibly better pricing if you take the TV package as well and some excellent marketing some they won't be changing even the slightest little thing , so no "game changing" is imminent.

I was paying 45e a month to eircom for a max 8mb line.
Im now paying 10e to sky for a 17mb line and Im getting a consistent 16mb, I was lucky to 4-5mb with eircom
UPC broadband arent out my way in ashbourne and had ****e tv coverage through their line of sight when I was with them.
I got sky satellite to watch sports. theres no other legal option.

for value purposes alone, its a game changer. Youre looking too much into this.

cgarvey

watty wrote: »

Also don't sign up to to pay TV to get cheap Broadband as that is very very expensive Broadband. Only sign up to pay TV if you want to spend €300 to €700 a year extra for 10% more content. About 92% of what Pay TV subscribers spend time watching is channels available free!

So if you would be getting Pay TV anyway ...

Or if you want to get a decent, reliable user experience. Or if you want to get remote record. Or if you want to get decent remote viewing. Saorview/Freesat/Freeview might be catching up, but they're still a long way off the offerings of Sky or Virgin/UPC (all the one now anyway, right?!). Television is about content and delivery. Your crusade to switch everyone to Saorview/Freesat is admirable if it was the case that people placed no value in the simplicity of Sky+ PVR, or the remote features. However, they do. Even a technonerd like me still chooses to pay for TV. If you weigh up the costs of going FTA and reaching feature parity, it's more than 2 years Sky (basic) sub, a lot more remote controls, and power supplies), and a lot more things to go wrong.

I support the message of "did you know you can pay a once off fee to get channels for free", but only in the understanding that you lose out on some features if you do, and that it might not be as green as you think.

Having said that, I'll probably go FTA soon enough. I just wish there was a quad tuner combo box with Freesat and Saorview certification (and the UI of something closer to Sky than the Walker).

aindriu80

clint_silver wrote: »

I was paying 45e a month to eircom for a max 8mb line.
Im now paying 10e to sky for a 17mb line and Im getting a consistent 16mb, I was lucky to 4-5mb with eircom
UPC broadband arent out my way in ashbourne and had ****e tv coverage through their line of sight when I was with them.
I got sky satellite to watch sports. theres no other legal option.

for value purposes alone, its a game changer. Youre looking too much into this.

I am paying €53/month for a 8Mb Eircom line which I get around 6-7Mb, I don't know how you pay €45 ?

The €10 Sky broadband you're paying isn't for the rest of us ? Did you take part on the Sky trial ?

I'm with Eircom but am thinking of jumping ship if its cheaper. I don't know if Eircom may raise their game in the future

cgarvey

clint_silver wrote: »

I was paying 45e a month to eircom for a max 8mb line.
Im now paying 10e to sky for a 17mb line and Im getting a consistent 16mb, I was lucky to 4-5mb with eircom
UPC broadband arent out my way in ashbourne and had ****e tv coverage through their line of sight when I was with them.
I got sky satellite to watch sports. theres no other legal option.

for value purposes alone, its a game changer. Youre looking too much into this.

The good: Sky are bothering with LLU and proving one of the biggest advantages of LLU.

The bad: that €10/month is at a massive loss for them. There's no way that's sustainable for a national rollout (bar introductory offers). After your first year, compare it to others then (trying to factor in any cross-subsidy with their TV).

Any savings are great, but let's wait and see what Sky are really offering. Firstly, they're not investing in infrastructure (which is the main reason they're getting such a cold welcome on this forum). Secondly, any savings they offer on DSL could well be absorbed by using LLU (cheaper; they're passing on those savings now, but might opt for a national pricing structure to keep it simpler), and by cross-subsidy from their TV division (which is already charging Irish subscribers a very healthy premium on top of what UK subscribers pay).

Given that it's going to take Sky a very long time to match parity with TV and DSL subscriber numbers, it would be more in the consumer's interest for them to shave €3/month off their TV package, than using it as a cross-subsidy for their DSL offerings. Tomorrow will give more insight, hopefully.

bealtine

clint_silver wrote: »

I was paying 45e a month to eircom for a max 8mb line.
Im now paying 10e to sky for a 17mb line and Im getting a consistent 16mb, I was lucky to 4-5mb with eircom
UPC broadband arent out my way in ashbourne and had ****e tv coverage through their line of sight when I was with them.
I got sky satellite to watch sports. theres no other legal option.

for value purposes alone, its a game changer. Youre looking too much into this.

Another one that doesn't understand the basics of telecommunications...

Sky may provide services over the BT network where that network is available which is mostly around urban areas (60 or so exchanges) so obviously you were lucky anyway eircom provide 24Mb/s in Ashbourne already so you've just got the resold bitstream, I don't think Ashbourne is on the BT list.

"Sky can do great things and provide me with better broadband than eircom" is nonsense, eircom were probably too lazy to change your profile that's all.

cgarvey

FaganJr wrote: »

Eircom will be providing me with 30 MB broadband next month, upgraded to 50MB by end of year. fibre to road copper to dwellings.

"up to". Using a copper pair from the street cab to your house will still very much determine the speeds you can get (just like the length of phoneline to the local exchange does for xDSL now).

You're lucky to get FTTC so soon, by the way, hope it makes a big difference for you!

In urban areas served by UPC, Sky can't compete (as of now anyway; maybe when fibre wholesale improves). They don't bring any value to that segment.

In rural areas, Sky may be able to shave a couple of euro of the DSL resold packages (relying on savings made using LLU in a minority of cases, and on TV package cross-subsidy); again no real value to consumers as a whole because it's really just taking money from elsewhere. I.e. if Sky used a €3 cross-subsidy from TV subs to offset loss-making DSL services, then the consumer would be much better served by Sky not being in the DSL game and shaving €3/mo off their TV pacakges.

The more the merrier, in the DSL reseller market, but in the context of the bigger picture, Sky won't be likely to bring much value (especially given the negative aspect of consumer lock-in; it's a lot harder to leave Sky TV+Broadband than it is Sky TV on its own).

cgarvey

bealtine wrote: »

eircom were probably too lazy to change your profile that's all.

That'd be a positive to Sky's entry, not a negative!

clint_silver

aindriu80 wrote: »

I am paying €53/month for a 8Mb Eircom line which I get around 6-7Mb, I don't know how you pay €45 ?

The €10 Sky broadband you're paying isn't for the rest of us ? Did you take part on the Sky trial ?

I'm with Eircom but am thinking of jumping ship if its cheaper. I don't know if Eircom may raise their game in the future

The 45e per month was the package I was on with eircom. up to 8mb. zero calls. literally. I had the phone unplugged as my wife and I just use mobiles for calls.

I contacted them about the trial about 5 weeks ago after getting the number on here. I have the basic sky package.

Another one that doesn't understand the basics of telecommunications...

Sky may provide services over the BT network where that network is available which is mostly around urban areas (60 or so exchanges) so obviously you were lucky anyway eircom provide 24Mb/s in Ashbourne already so you've just got the resold bitstream, I don't think Ashbourne is on the BT list.

I never once said sky will be more reliable. I understand resold bitstream. my bb was off last 2 days, eircom fault. I get it. when eircoms down, sky is down. What do i care whether I was lucky or not? Does that change my service I was getting from eircom and am now getting from sky or is it that I was just unlucky i couldnt get upc in ashbourne?

They give me faster broadband then eircom at a cheaper price. thats what I know. What else do I need to know? could I get faster off eircom? yes, but Id have to pay up to 80e for it for a similar package. What are you not understanding about that?

I really don't understand the bashing here. Sky are charging less for a faster service. whats not to like?

bealtine

clint_silver wrote: »

They give me faster broadband then eircom at a cheaper price. thats what I know. What else do I need to know? could I get faster off eircom? yes, but Id have to pay up to 80e for it for a similar package. What are you not understanding about that?

I really don't understand the bashing here. Sky are charging less for a faster service. whats not to like?

You need to understand the realities of the telecommunications network first and how that effects consumers all over the country. After all that's the mission of this forum.

Sure it's cheaper but the prices for all the "bits" are set by eircom so if Sky are providing you with cheaper broadband that's great but it won't last very long as it's an introductory offer. The idea is to attract subscribers and Sky absorb the costs, it's a model that is unsustainable.
The costs will inevitably creep up as those costs can no longer be cross-subsidized by TV packages. There's no magic here and it's not "bashing" it's a simple analysis of facts as described by Sky themselves and a basic knowledge of telecomms.

Sky do not provide "faster broadband" they provide what eircom provide at better prices but that is only for now.

clint_silver

bealtine wrote: »

You need to understand the realities of the telecommunications network first and how that effects consumers all over the country. After all that's the mission of this forum.

Sure it's cheaper but the prices for all the "bits" are set by eircom so if Sky are providing you with cheaper broadband that's great but it won't last very long as it's an introductory offer. The idea is to attract subscribers and Sky absorb the costs, it's a model that is unsustainable.
The costs will inevitably creep up as those costs can no longer be cross-subsidized by TV packages. There's no magic here and it's not "bashing" it's a simple analysis of facts as described by Sky themselves and a basic knowledge of telecomms.

Sky do not provide "faster broadband" they provide what eircom provide at better prices but that is only for now.

youre being pedantic with the words so I'll rephrase. I get faster broadband speeds for a cheaper price off sky than I did with eircom. I'll have it for 12 months as per the contract.
A basic knowledge of comms, even an advanced level, could not provide me with BB at the price sky are giving it to me. this time next year may be different but we can revisit then as everyone should do at the end of any contract for any service.

I'll caveat my post and state Im coming from the bargain hunters side of the fence and I know the "ireland offline" section is all about the tech so no offence meant to anyone who is dismayed at sky piggybacking without adding to infrastructure.

But for now, I'll just sit back and enjoy that sweet sweet 16mb coming in the front door and the extra coin in my pocket from the savings.

Quin_Dub

bealtine wrote: »

"Sky can do great things and provide me with better broadband than eircom" is nonsense, eircom were probably too lazy to change your profile that's all.

The key point here though is that Eircom charge different rates for different speeds. Sky are charging a flat rate and will provide the maximum speed that the line is capable of.

I live in a rural location -

The ONLY package that Eircom would offer me was 1MB line with a 10Gb limit - Utterly pointless.

Vodafone was a bit better where they'd give me an "up to 4Mb" line with a 40Gb limit.

I stayed with my Mobile broadband package as that at least gave me the highest download limit (60Gb).

At that level I was constantly watching my downloads and had adjusted my browsing behaviour as a result.

Sky have now come in and offered me unlimited downloads , with no throttling , no fair usage policy and no download limit.

They are giving me the maximum the line can handle (~3.5Mb) and all that I can download.

True - They are not offering anything new technology-wise , but frankly I couldn't care less.

UPC will likely never be available to me as am in a really rural location, and even if Sky were to have rolled out some new kind of Technology , it wouldn't be coming to me due to my location.

So for me , it's ALL about price and the bundle.

I'm getting my broadband as above, along with unlimited phone calls to 20 countries worldwide (including mobiles in US & Canada) for €27.50 a month. Compared to the €26 for Mobile Broadband and ~€40 for phone that I have been paying.

So for the next 12 months I'm saving almost €40 a month - Even if Sky doubled the price at the end of that period I'm still better off than I was.

For people in Cities , maybe Sky isn't going to make much a difference , but for people like me it's a massive improvement.

Of course we'd all love someone to come in and fix the woeful infrastructure that we have.. We'd all love to be able to avail of 50Mb+ services a la UPC, but that doesn't mean we have to be so dismissive of new offers using the existing infrastructure.

** As an aside - My line is actually capable of ~9Mb based on the attenuation etc. But my profile is restricted by Eircom due to the crappy back-haul they have from my exchange. The exchange is also not on any list for expansion or upgrade that I can find.. So I'm stuck with what I have, technology wise for the foreseeable future, all the more reason for me to chase the best price....

bealtine

clint_silver wrote: »

But for now, I'll just sit back and enjoy that sweet sweet 16mb coming in the front door and the extra coin in my pocket from the savings.

Absolutely and good for you, in these straitened times coin in the pocket is important:)

But the point is lots of people expect Sky to provide broadband in parts that eircom haven't enabled for DSL and somehow magically Sky will provide faster broadband where eircom haven't update their exchanges to 24Mb/s etc.

Sky offer nothing more than what is already there...perhaps the current pricing is keener but that won't last very long so enjoy it in the interim.

bealtine

Quin_Dub wrote: »

The key point here though is that Eircom charge different rates for different speeds. Sky are charging a flat rate and will provide the maximum speed that the line is capable of.



** As an aside - My line is actually capable of ~9Mb based on the attenuation etc. But my profile is restricted by Eircom due to the crappy back-haul they have from my exchange. The exchange is also not on any list for expansion or upgrade that I can find.. So I'm stuck with what I have, technology wise for the foreseeable future, all the more reason for me to chase the best price....

Right and I'm in total agreement but my point is that Sky offer absolutely nothing new and expecting some sort of "magic" from Sky is just plain silly.
You are just making my points very nicely:)

After all it's just resold bitstream at a better price, but that's only for now. The pricing model won't last very long as it is being cross subsidized by TV package sales so unless the other re-sellers come up with some new pricing model everything remains exactly the same as it was last year.

This forum is about broadband for all...not the same old crap as was always there before.

Quin_Dub

bealtine wrote: »

Right and I'm in total agreement but my point is that Sky offer absolutely nothing new and expecting some sort of "magic" from Sky is just plain silly.
You are just making my points very nicely:)

After all it's just resold bitstream at a better price, but that's only for now. The pricing model won't last very long as it is being cross subsidized by TV package sales so unless the other re-sellers come up with some new pricing model everything remains exactly the same as it was last year.

This forum is about broadband for all...not the same old crap as was always there before.

Agreed - Personally I never had any expectations from Sky other then price, I'm acutely aware of the technology limitations that most of the country are operating under.

I guess what I'm saying is that , for now, I'm taking Sky's entry into the market as a win for the consumer , albeit a potentially short lived one. If it's disruptive enough in the marketplace it may drive another provider to do the something different that gives us the technological step forward that we'd all like to see...

The path forward isn't always going to be straight ahead , we need a few of these "sideways" steps to make progress...

bealtine

cgarvey wrote: »

That'd be a positive to Sky's entry, not a negative!

Yes that would be true, eircom like tiered pricing too...

bealtine

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Agreed - Personally I never had any expectations from Sky other then price, I'm acutely aware of the technology limitations that most of the country are operating under.

I guess what I'm saying is that , for now, I'm taking Sky's entry into the market as a win for the consumer , albeit a potentially short lived one. If it's disruptive enough in the marketplace it may drive another provider to do the something different that gives us the technological step forward that we'd all like to see...

The path forward isn't always going to be straight ahead , we need a few of these "sideways" steps to make progress...

Well there were a few people arguing about Sky on the broadband forum, they were all saying stuff like "I got 16Mb/s from Sky in town X" however town X is only enabled for 8Mb/s and doesn't have LLU so obviously that's utter nonsense. No facts would change their beliefs.
I checked the towns in question...so there's absolutely no way on earth they could possibly have gotten speeds like that but they, for some reason, believe it explicitly.

These are the false expectations that Sky marketing have kindled...excellent marketing too but very thin on the reality.

Quin_Dub

bealtine wrote: »

Well there were a few people arguing about Sky on the broadband forum, they were all saying stuff like "I got 16Mb/s from Sky in town X" however town X is only enabled for 8Mb/s and doesn't have LLU so obviously that's utter nonsense. No facts would change their beliefs.
I checked the towns in question...so there's absolutely no way on earth they could possibly have gotten speeds like that but they, for some reason, believe it explicitly.

These are the false expectations that Sky marketing have kindled...excellent marketing too but very thin on the reality.

Confusion does tend to be the pervading status in a lot of this...

I will say though that in my case as an example - Any "Line Test" carried out by any of the incumbent providers always reported my line at 2.02Mb, hence Eircom would only offer me their 1Mb Service. In fact Sky also reported the same figure to me when I signed up.

When we got connected however I was able to get over 3Mb - so in some ways Sky did provide me with a better service then was being reported/offered by everyone else.

Because Sky's offer is "Max Available speed " most people that are converting are seeing increased speeds over their previous providers, so it's easy to see how people can make the assumption that Sky is offering something "better" than Eircom/Vodafone et al even though the service they had been receiving was artificially suppressed through their profile for pricing reasons and not technology.

aindriu80

Some of this is pointless. Until Sky actual set out their stall its just speculation.

One thing though, the price of broadband in Ireland has to come down. Its still a rip off.

If any company buys from Eircom and sells at a lower price I am all for it, it might be lateral but thats all that is on the horizon.

Things look better in the U.K, they should at least advertise realistic speeds here as opposed to theoretical speeds.

aindriu80

I signed up for Sky broadband. Prices were what I expected, €40/month. Its a saving of €13/month for me plus a speed increase from 6Mbs I was getting to 21Mbs they got when doing a speed test for me.

I phoned Eircom and they told me it takes 4 weeks to disconnect and I had to put it in writing. They asked why and told them I would be getting a better service with Sky. They said what I was supposedly getting didn't exist. It was a bit of a lame attempt to keep me with them. I hope basic broadband prices drop in the future.

gazzer

Just checked out the pricing and it is €50 for unlimited broadband and off peak calls or €40 for a 10GB broadband and off peak calls.

I would use more than 10GB a month but probably no more than 40gb so if I end up saving €2 if I leave Eircom :rolleyes:

I would have thought there might be a discounted bundle price for existing sky customers. I was considering leaving Sky but was waiting to see what their broadband deal was like.

Time for me to jump ship and go FTA and go with Vodafone for their €40 a month offer.

Quin_Dub

aindriu80 wrote: »

I signed up for Sky broadband. Prices were what I expected, €40/month. Its a saving of €13/month for me plus a speed increase from 6Mbs I was getting to 21Mbs they got when doing a speed test for me.

I phoned Eircom and they told me it takes 4 weeks to disconnect and I had to put it in writing. They asked why and told them I would be getting a better service with Sky. They said what I was supposedly getting didn't exist. It was a bit of a lame attempt to keep me with them. I hope basic broadband prices drop in the future.

People that signed up during the pilot phase got transferred over quite quickly..

You'll owe Eircom 30 days money in lieu of notice , but they should cut the service over fairly quickly (unless of course they decide to be stroppy)