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Sky broadband launches in Ireland

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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,884 ✭✭✭cgarvey


    As I understand it they did a deal with BT who still have infrastructure over here, any areas not covered by that will be Eircom's LLU, like everyone else

    Just a minor clarification.. the deal with BT is to use their backhaul & LLU infrastructure. Everywhere else uses eircom's Bitstream (wholesale DSL) service, like everyone else. Not many operators do LLU, mind you.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2 scottie11


    I have Sky Broadband Unlimited Package +Sky Talk Anytime+Sky Talk Line Rental free calls to 20 countries,My broadband is twice as fast as my last provider,and customer care is free to phone. the service is brill, and all I pay is 28.50 euros a month including line rental I have had it for 3 weeks now, great?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,968 ✭✭✭aindriu80


    scottie11 wrote: »
    I have Sky Broadband Unlimited Package +Sky Talk Anytime+Sky Talk Line Rental free calls to 20 countries,My broadband is twice as fast as my last provider,and customer care is free to phone. the service is brill, and all I pay is 28.50 euros a month including line rental I have had it for 3 weeks now, great?

    Is that going to be the final price for broadband with Sky after the promo offer ? I wasn't contacted by Sky yet. I'm with Eircom - 8mb €52/month and I would like to move


  • Registered Users Posts: 2 scottie11


    I think they are going to start april, I dont know what the price is going to be, but I have got it for a year, i get 4mb now thats because i am on a old copper line, before all i could get was 1.7 mb and i was paying 51 Euros a month with UTV Internet and they told me that was the fastest for my area,Why dont you contact Sky


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,051 ✭✭✭bealtine


    scottie11 wrote: »
    Why dont you contact Sky

    Yeah Sky have a magic stick and can obviously make DSL run faster


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,230 ✭✭✭Solair


    LLU = Local Loop Unbundling. This is where another company, for example BT Ireland, Smart or Magnet has their own equipment co-located in your local telephone exchange. When you switch over, they literally take a patch cable and connect your line to the other company's equipment. They can provide you either with full ADSL and phone (in the case of Smart for example) or just patch you over for their ADSL services and use eircom's voice exchange to provide your dial tone and telephone service (this is more commonly what BT Ireland do).

    The advantage of LLU is really that the operator can reduce costs by providing its own services independently of eircom and has direct control over managing things at the exchange level.

    However, since eircom upgraded a lot of its own exchanges to ADSL2+, the advantage is not really as big as it used to be when Smart etc had ADSL2+ and Eircom were still on old-school ADSL 1.0

    Bitstream/Wholesale Access DSL is just where another operator pays eircom to provide their DSL services. Eircom hand the traffic over to them at various points. The more hand-over points you have, the less you have to pay eircom to carry traffic, so operators will tend to have traffic handed over at several exchanges in cities, and at least every main exchange in rural areas.

    The 'backhaul' (backbone network) is operated by (or on behalf of) the operator you are with. So, for example if you're using Vodafone at Home, your traffic is going over a vodafone branded network run for them by BT Ireland.

    BT Ireland are now one of the largest wholesale operators in Ireland. If you're a smaller ISP/phone co and want to provide a branded service, you can approach eircom or BT to have that run on your behalf with your branding and marketing and customer services.

    BT also unbundled a lot of exchanges and are continuing to do so, so they can drive costs down more than someone who is totally depending on eircom's gear.

    CPS (Carrier Pre-Select) (Voice)
    With the exception of Smart Telecom, most operators seem to just use Eircom's wholesale system for voice services. So, in general your plain old telephony services (POTS) will be just connected to an eircom exchange and it will route the voice traffic back to whoever your provider is. It seems that's more cost effective / practical for most of them than rolling out their own voice gear.

    So basically with Sky you'll be using BT's infrastructure. That means your DSL will be delivered by BT equipment co-located along side eircom in some larger exchanges where BT have unbundled. In others it will be using eircom's ADSL2+ equipment (same quality of service and speed). However, if you're in a rural area / small exchange that's stuck on Eircom's original ADSL from the late 90s, then your service will be provided by that and will be exactly the same.

    Other terms you might hear:

    DSLAM = digital subscriber line access multiplexer. That is the thing that your modem talks to in the exchange. Just think of it as the phone company's bank of modems that you are connecting to.

    Backhaul Refers to the backbone network that your provider routes traffic across within Ireland. Typically, they'll have their own space on major international fibre optic networks and interconnections at various points to allow them to route traffic into the internet internationally. Bigger providers e.g. BT, Eircom, UPC etc usually own their own fibres for some of this. Smaller ones rent space.

    ----

    There's also a lot of confusion about other technologies. A lot of people seem to think they're dependent on eircom.

    UPC and CableSurf in Dungarvan use their own cable networks. These are fibre-to-kerb (fibre optic cables run to boxes on the street) and a coaxial cable runs to your house. They do not use *any* eircom infrastructure at all. UPC has its own national fibre network (and also rents space on some others). It also has it own fibre capacity to connect abroad.
    Their telephone services are provided by the cable company's own smartswitches (VoIP exchanges).

    Wireless ISPs / FWA operators like Digiweb and Novanetworks etc all have their own infrastructure too. The service is provided using microwave links to your house using various technologies depending on the provider. Again, these companies have their own infrastructure.

    Mobile operators (Vodafone, O2, Meteor, Three) own their own infrastructure and have their own voice exchanges, data networks and international connectivity. They're not dependent on the Eircom landline network in anyway for anything.

    ---

    Eircom's new "Fibre" broadband.

    Eircom are currently rolling out what is known as "fibre to kerb" FTTC technology. It basically means that they are running fibre optic cables to green boxes located on the street nearer to your house. Your phone line runs from that green box to your house. So, because the line's now very short and the fibre gives them more capacity, they can offer much higher speeds in these areas (50Mbit/s+).

    UPC's network already does this, only it uses much higher capacity coaxial cables to your house instead of phone lines. So, basically eircom's just slowly catching up with the cable network.

    Sky Broadband, Vodafone and others will be able to sell this service under their own brands much like existing DSL products.

    Do not confuse this with what eircom call "Fibre Powered Broadband" which is only a reference to their Next Generation Network. All this means is that Eircom have been installing a new backbone network with more capacity. NGN areas are connected to an all-IP network with more capacity so it just means it has fewer bottle necks than the old network. It's still the same ADSL2+ technology though providing you with service.

    All these marketing buzz words and misuse of the term 'fibre' by providers really cause a lot of confusion.

    The telephone network's been "fibre powered" since about 1981 ! So, it's actually a fairly meaningless term.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,884 ✭✭✭cgarvey


    aindriu80 wrote: »
    Is that going to be the final price for broadband with Sky after the promo offer ?

    No, it's a promo offer only. Whilst speculation will suggest that they'll still sell at, or close to, a loss initially to gain traction, those special offer prices won't prevail. They, in theory, could offer lower rates on the LLU exchanges, but I presume the pricing differences would be too confusing and they won't bother.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,968 ✭✭✭aindriu80


    Sky believes in a better return from its operation in Ireland

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2013/0125/1224329248602.html

    CIARÁN HANCOCK, Business Affairs Correspondent

    Chief executive Jeremy Darroch says the satellite broadcaster wants to do more in what he describes as a ‘great, great market’

    “Believe in Britain” is the slogan on the business card handed to me last Friday by one of the Sky team who accompanied chief executive Jeremy Darroch to Dublin for the opening of the broadcaster’s impressive new corporate headquarters here.

    The expansion is a statement of intent by the satellite broadcaster. About 900 new jobs to begin with, an investment of €1.5 billion over five years, and the imminent launch of broadband and home telephone services.

    Twenty-four years after its launch, Sky is really starting to “believe” in Ireland. Some wonder why it has taken so long for it to make such an investment in Ireland.

    Sky doesn’t publish turnover or profit figures for its Irish operation. Some years ago, it even stopped releasing the number of subscribers it has here.

    But the consensus within the industry is that it makes a lot of money from this market.

    In a speech at the official launch of the offices, which was attended by Taoiseach Enda Kenny, Darroch stressed how Ireland has been a “great, great market” for Sky over the years.

    In our interview, Darroch confirms the business here is profitable and “performing well”. Even in the recession, it has continued to grow and the average spend by customers is up, he says.

    Losing money

    So why has it taken until now to build a presence – it previously had about 50 staff here – on the ground?

    “When the business was set up [in 1989], Sky for many years was successful but losing money,” he explains. “Its history was one of significant investment and early stage losses.

    “We ran Ireland as an offshoot of the UK and that was working. There was nothing wrong with that as a business.

    “My own view was that, for us to take the next step over time here, we really needed to build more of an on-the-ground presence. The launch of broadband is a good opportunity to do that because we can see our business re-scaling here over the next few months.”

    Sky’s funky new offices – there’s a pool table, table tennis, lots of glossy sports murals on the walls and even a faith room – will act as a customer contact centre and a sales office. These functions were previously carried out by in-house staff in Scotland and third-party service provider Abtran in Co Cork.

    The push into broadband and home telephone services helped persuade the listed company’s top brass that it was time to take these activities under its direct control from two floors of a large modern office block on Burlington Road.

    The broadband and phone products will launch in February after a number of months of pilot testing with a closed group of about 300 customers.

    A chat forum on Sky’s Irish website indicates that those who participated in the trial were offered one-year contracts at knockdown prices.

    They could avail of unlimited broadband for €10 a month and landline calls to Ireland and some other destinations for €7.50 a month.

    What will it charge for its triple play – TV, broadband and telephone – service when it goes live in February?

    “We haven’t announced the price yet. We’ll hold all of that for the consumer launch but, look, it will be attractive, as always.”

    Darroch says Sky wants to achieve significant scale with its broadband launch.

    “So we have to make sure we have the right price and the right value proposition.

    “It’s going to be a long game and hopefully a tale of growth for us for many years.”

    Sky is no novice when it comes to broadband and telephony, having launched broadband in the UK six years ago.

    Today, it has 4.1 million broadband customers in the UK, of which 3.5 million are taking its triple-play offering.

    That’s roughly one-third of its overall 10.6 million subscriber base for Britain and Ireland.

    According to figures from Nielsen, there are more than 700,000 Sky set-top boxes in the Republic, although not all of these would have active subscriptions.

    What target has Darroch set for the Irish business?

    “No specific targets that we’re disclosing today,” he says. “The job is to get to market, start to build success and to go from there.

    “We’ll offer our own service and we’ll encourage as many people as possible to join Sky. That’s what we do day in and day out. The idea is to build a mass market business.”

    Darroch was also coy on what speeds its broadband customers will enjoy when it launches here.

    The company has agreed a wholesale deal with BT Ireland. This will include piggy-backing on the Eircom network in parts of the country where the BT network doesn’t reach.

    This suggests that the maximum speeds it could offer customers would be 24Mbs, roughly half of the basic offering from cable rival UPC, which has spent more than €500 million in recent years to bring its network up to snuff.

    The reality is that Sky won’t be competing for UPC customers. Instead, it will be targeting Eircom and Vodafone subscribers and hoping that bundling these services with its TV offering will swing them its way.

    “In the UK what we found is that speed is only one element of choice and not actually that important in terms of the hierarchy of needs of most customers,” Darroch counters.

    “Download capacity is incredibly important and value consistently rates as the most important element of consumer choice in the value proposition.

    “And service is really important. Making sure the broadband connection is always on is important.”

    Price increase

    He claims that Sky has been consistently top rated in terms of customer service in broadband and home telephone since launching these products in the UK and has been outgrowing its competitors over that timeframe, too.

    “Broadband and telephony are only two of the additional services that we can offer,” he adds.

    “We can offer high definition television as well. We can offer multi-room services and other things that we will dream up and develop over time.”

    Ironically, given all the talk of a value proposition, Sky is pushing through a price increase on its TV subscriptions from February 1st.

    For some Irish subscribers that will mean paying an extra €3 a month. The web forums have been alive with conspiracy theories that the launch of broadband and telephone next month is a device to distract attention from the price rise on TV.

    It certainly seems counter intuitive given that the economy remains depressed and the public were whacked with yet more taxes in December’s budget.

    “It’s three years since we last took a price increase,” Darroch counters. “We’ve held prices flat over that period.

    “I still think Sky represents outstanding value for money for a family. We went to the cinema as a family the other day and it was £60 before you even have a drink and that’s not exactly cheap.

    “You can get all that Sky offers for the price of a family night out for a pizza or a trip to the cinema.”

    Darroch also argues that Sky has put “more value” into its TV service over the past couple of years, citing the launch of entertainment channel Sky Atlantic and Sky Go, which allows subscribers to view content on smartphones and other devices when they’re not at home.

    “Inevitably, we have to get the right returns from the business to make the investment to keep improving the service.”

    Global turndown

    One of the innovations of recent years has been 3D, with Sky dabbling in using this technology for certain sports. Some question whether 3D will ever take off in homes, given the need to wear special glasses to view programmes.

    “We’re not monetising 3D. Basically, it’s an entitlement that we build in to our HD pack.

    “It’s suffered a bit from arriving at the time of the global downturn. Therefore, we’re not seeing the amount of 3D content yet being produced across the globe that we’d hope for.

    “Ultimately, there’s a lot of work upstream in terms of glasses-free technology. When that comes through, that will be helpful. But it’s probably still a couple of years out.”

    What else might we expect in the future from Sky?

    “We’ve got a small business today that we’re building in the UK public wifi hotspots to make it easy for Sky customers to get access to content away from home.”

    In Ireland, we can expect more commissioning of locally produced programmes. Sky has already dipped a toe in the water with Moone Boy, a comedy filmed in Roscommon.

    “Moone Boy is the first major commission that we’ve done, which we’re delighted with. We’re already moving on a second series and hopefully there’ll be a lot more to come.”

    Darroch joined Sky in 2004 as chief financial officer before rising to the top job three years later. He had previously worked as group finance director of DSG International, formerly known as Dixons.

    Darroch also spent 12 years in a number of role with Procter Gamble in Europe. This included visits and interaction with its business in Ireland.

    Interaction with Murdoch

    Both are consumer-facing businesses and provided excellent experience for his current role.

    “I enjoy working for Sky,” he says. “It’s a great job; every day is exciting.”

    Sky was the creation of media mogul Rupert Murdoch and News Corporation remains its major investor with a 39.1 per cent stake.

    Darroch says he has a lot of “interaction” with Murdoch, who is 81. “He’s very helpful, he offers advice if I need it and he’s always been very supportive of our business.

    “He was the driving force at the outset and he always encourages us to do more and drive on further.”

    News Corp tried to buy BSkyB outright in 2010 but its bid was scuppered by the phone hacking scandal, which engulfed the media mogul and his British newspapers.

    His son James Murdoch stepped down as BSkyB chairman last year following shareholder pressure.

    Might News Corp bid again for Sky?

    “I don’t know,” is Darroch’s straightforward answer. “This is the sort of question I get asked many times and the answer is you’ve got to ask them.

    “As a management team, our job is to keep managing the business. If we keep growing the company then I think we’ll be an attractive business and we’ll be delivering for all of our shareholders.

    “One of the things we tried to do in the whole bid process was not be distracted but just to stay focused on the business. I think we did a very good job of that.”

    Outside Sky, he is non-executive director of Marks Spencer, a board member of the charity Youth Sport Trust and a council member of the Council for Industry and Higher Education.

    Darroch grew up in a town 35 miles north of Newcastle and retains a hint of a Geordie accent.

    “I was back home at Christmas and man it was cold,” he says as sleet taps against the window.

    He has a relaxed style about him, answering questions quickly and with little fuss.

    By the time we met, it was the end of a long day of town hall-style meetings. He had discarded the tie and opened the top button on his white shirt.

    Back to the Irish business, and Darroch says Sky didn’t hesitate about making the substantial investment in Ireland even though the economy is in the doldrums.

    “We’re here for the long term. The business is in good shape and successful, so it made sense,” he says.

    “I hope our consumer insight about the Irish marketplace will improve. I think we’ll learn as much from our Irish organisation as we will from the UK.”

    Will the employment levels increase in the years ahead?

    “Hopefully, this is just the start and we can grow further. We don’t have a particular number in mind. Largely, it will be dictated by the success of the business. But there’s no reason we can’t continue to grow.

    “Our business in Ireland is in good shape. We’ve got an appetite to do more. If we can be successful here and do a good job then I think the prospects for the company are strong.”

    Believe.

    Looks like those who participated on the trial got a great offer for the next 12 months, shame they are charging an extra €3/month from February onwards :(


  • Registered Users Posts: 1 Tomred24


    aindriu80 wrote: »
    €29.99 month is quite good but the only thing is the lack of unbundling of exchanges. I don't think Smart is in my area.

    If Sky can do anything better than €52.00/month for 8mb unlimited it would do wonders for broadband in Ireland as it would be proper competition. It wouldn't be hard tbh.

    I just wonder when you can drop out of an Eircom contract if Sky come up with a decent range of broadband products. Any idea when Sky will be ready ?

    My sister works for Sky in dublin and they were told today that broadband and talk will be rolling out on Monday the 11th of feb and will be priced very competitively but will only be available with a tv package!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,968 ✭✭✭aindriu80


    Tomred24 wrote: »
    My sister works for Sky in dublin and they were told today that broadband and talk will be rolling out on Monday the 11th of feb and will be priced very competitively but will only be available with a tv package!

    Thanks for the update dude. I have the basic Sky package at €27 (soon €30)/month package. I don't know if that qualifies for the T.V package?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,895 ✭✭✭clint_silver


    aindriu80 wrote: »
    Thanks for the update dude. I have the basic Sky package at €27 (soon €30)/month package. I don't know if that qualifies for the T.V package?

    it does as long as you have a phone line.

    I asked when I got it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,968 ✭✭✭aindriu80


    it does as long as you have a phone line.

    I asked when I got it.

    any mention of speeds, download cap ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,895 ✭✭✭clint_silver


    aindriu80 wrote: »
    any mention of speeds, download cap ?

    see the many threads on here. Theyll give you whatever the max speed your line can handle. Theres no cap.

    all for the 10e a month. call package is another 7.50 on top if you want. usual free landline to landline stuff.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,968 ✭✭✭aindriu80


    see the many threads on here. Theyll give you whatever the max speed your line can handle. Theres no cap.

    all for the 10e a month. call package is another 7.50 on top if you want. usual free landline to landline stuff.

    Cool. I thought that might have been for the people doing the trial.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,884 ✭✭✭cgarvey


    aindriu80 wrote: »
    Cool. I thought that might have been for the people doing the trial.

    It is .. the pricing for general release hasn't been announced officially yet. It'd be quite the loss-leader if they were to make that pricing available generally (and if they do, a real indication of the threat they feel from UPC!).


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Also don't sign up to to pay TV to get cheap Broadband as that is very very expensive Broadband. Only sign up to pay TV if you want to spend €300 to €700 a year extra for 10% more content. About 92% of what Pay TV subscribers spend time watching is channels available free!

    So if you would be getting Pay TV anyway ...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    So for €36 a month with Vodafone and Free sat (Max speed + 165GB download) I'm better off where I am!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,968 ✭✭✭aindriu80


    cgarvey wrote: »
    It is .. the pricing for general release hasn't been announced officially yet. It'd be quite the loss-leader if they were to make that pricing available generally (and if they do, a real indication of the threat they feel from UPC!).

    I'm still going to wait on Sky even though they might as cheap as I hoped. There is always Vodafone with a fast connection. I personally think Eircom charges too much. I pay €53/month for a 8Mb line and it should be half that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    DSL should be flat rate €19 for what ever the max speed the line does and cap of 60Gbyte and €39 for 240 Gbyte, rolling 30 days.

    3G Mobile should be a minimum of €40 and 2Gbyte less is getting cross subsidy from voice and €80 for 20 Gbyte on Mobile.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,744 ✭✭✭funnyname




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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,231 ✭✭✭Galego


    Any idea of when sky will make an official announce about its broadband prices?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,051 ✭✭✭bealtine


    Galego wrote: »
    Any ideas of when sky will make an official announces about its broadband prices.

    supposedly this month...

    But really who cares it's mostly just resold eircom bitstream anyway except in 60 or so exchanges. Nothing will change for the most users


  • Registered Users Posts: 568 ✭✭✭FaganJr


    Galego wrote: »
    Any idea of when sky will make an official announce about its broadband prices?
    Thursday, will be interesting, probably aggressive strategy. Don't mind the nay sayers, clueless and unfortunately everywhere....
    http://www.siliconrepublic.com/new-media/item/31321-ahead-of-broadband-launch-s


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    The only aggressiveness and value is for Pay TV subscribers, follow the money ...


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,895 ✭✭✭clint_silver


    Quick one, my bb went off this evening about 4 pm. Rang sky support. They have to log a call with eircom and there's a 3 day turnaround on calls with them. /insert angry face/
    Here's an annoying one. If you have sky then the tech support 0818 number is free if you ring from the landline. If you ring from mobile it's really expensive. But as far as I can see you're only ever going to ring them if you have a problem anyway so what's the point. :(


  • Registered Users Posts: 568 ✭✭✭FaganJr


    watty wrote: »
    The only aggressiveness and value is for Pay TV subscribers, follow the money ...
    That's their business model surely, I fail to see the relevance of your reply? Your all about free TV?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,051 ✭✭✭bealtine


    FaganJr wrote: »
    Thursday, will be interesting, probably aggressive strategy. Don't mind the nay sayers, clueless and unfortunately everywhere....
    http://www.siliconrepublic.com/new-media/item/31321-ahead-of-broadband-launch-s

    Since when have facts been "nay sayers" or "clueless"?


  • Registered Users Posts: 568 ✭✭✭FaganJr


    bealtine wrote: »

    Since when have facts been "nay sayers" or "clueless"?

    I'm not the one spouting about products not even launched yet, fact!


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    FaganJr wrote: »
    That's their business model surely, I fail to see the relevance of your reply? Your all about free TV?

    No, I'm about VALUE. About 82% of households have pay TV rather than "saturation" level of 55%. They are being fleeced. No a la Carte, loads of junk channels and about 92% of what they watch is FREE TV. Yet on average they are paying nearly €600 a year! Pay TV is a con that dates back to when we had one state TV channel and people used it to get the Free UK channels.

    Well, the price has gone up and up and most people paying for subscription TV are now being conned into paying for something they can get for free. Meanwhile the quality of content has dropped.

    No-one should subscribe to Sky TV or UPC TV to get Broadband. In the case of UPC, they now sell excellent broadband without the need to subscribe to TV. Sky can't do that at a profit (as it's the TV that has the profit for them), nor on DSL can the average speed per user be much more than about 4Mbps for the entire country (Was 3.5Mbps last time I checked). UPC will soon have 30Mbps as a minimum.

    Sky is bringing zero value to non-pay TV subscribers in Rural Ireland and bringing nothing to areas covered by UPC unless you want to downgrade speed to get Sky Pay TV & Broadband bundle.

    UPC can make money from Broadband or TV and has provided real broadband infrastructure. Sky can only make money reselling TV channels. They have added virtually no Irish Infrastructure (they don't own the boxes, dishes or satellites) and are only reselling ALREADY existing broadband.

    So there is no benefit or net value to Ireland or Irish Consumer. All the Sky TV subscription leaves the country.

    "Sky Broadband" is of less significance than Tesco or An Post selling Mobile Phone contracts.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 568 ✭✭✭FaganJr


    People choose to pay for tv,it's a personal choice. You can't watch a football game legally without paying for it? Correct?
    Now the largest free market in the world also has pay tv, and people pay.
    At least sky is providing a nationwide broadband solution not like upc which only provides fibre broadband to Dublin cork and Galway . Sky will be able to provide me with a broadband solution where upc can't. As a upc customer I know this to be true. So your stats are pure BS. Sky will be able to provide me with 50 MB broadband before the end of the year, upc will NEVER be able to provide me with any service except **** tv.
    Also a lot of company's profits leave the country,sky, upc etc why don't you think of that when your doing your shopping in Tescos or next this evening.
    At least sky are providing jobs in cork and Dublin. Not so bad now are they.
    People here as interested in the service they will be providing, not listening to ye shower....


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