Karting General Discussion -All Karting questions in here

mick993

Good man Kyle I have watched you race several times and the super four is certainly a good class alright, though a bit light on numbers at national level as all the classes are.
I'll probably drop down myself to watch the racing as a few of our Cadets have progressed to National level and they are great racing to watch.
I personally feel that anybody just jumping into a race kart for more or less the first time (any class) will completely struggle at National level and probably throw their hat at it very quickly.
Club racing at any club and in any sporting discipline is the breeding ground for the National and International competitors of tomorrow and ought to be encouraged and supported much more vigorously by the powers that be.

KylieWyley

mick993 wrote: »

Good man Kyle I have watched you race several times and the super four is certainly a good class alright, though a bit light on numbers at national level as all the classes are.
I'll probably drop down myself to watch the racing as a few of our Cadets have progressed to National level and they are great racing to watch.
I personally feel that anybody just jumping into a race kart for more or less the first time (any class) will completely struggle at National level and probably throw their hat at it very quickly.
Club racing at any club and in any sporting discipline is the breeding ground for the National and International competitors of tomorrow and ought to be encouraged and supported much more vigorously by the powers that be.

Hey Mick, depending on what the individual is looking to get out of it, you may be right. I can see pluses to both club and national level. As regards struggling, I don't see it as a struggle. I see it as a challenge to develop. Some of the lads in my class have up to 20 years experience and when you are behind them, you find that you push yourself beyond the speeds you thought you were capable of achieving.

I can't speak for the other classes but I chose Super4 because, although we compete under MSI, there's a great clubman ethos about the group. I've encountered a couple of problems along the way where I doubted I would get out onto the track but the lads will always do their best to help get you going. Re: numbers, we started the season with 13 and generally have a steady 11/12 for each race with interest being shown from newcomers and past racers as our numbers are starting to increase. (Sometimes, too large a grid on a small kart track can be just a little manic !)

This season we had 4 black plates so even the less experienced racers can find themselves having some decent action. I have struggled at a couple of tracks but the pace of the leaders only drives me on (no pun intended) to go faster - I've even been lucky enough to find myself in the mix with the more experienced lads and setting fairly competitive laps for a couple of rounds also!

What I would say to the OP is to go along to as many meetings (both national and club) and talk to as many people as you can. Many people (perhaps myself included) will have their own slanted view of what's best and, at the end of the day, it will be up to you to decide what best suits your circumstances. Either way, you'll be guaranteed to have some great fun in a kart. It's a fantastic sport - definitely a great alternative to boozing at the weekends

stedabee

KylieWyley wrote: »

It's a fantastic sport - definitely a great alternative to boozing at the weekends

This is exactly why I want to get into it! Getting excited just thinking about it! Where abouts online is the best place to find karts up for sale?

stedabee

KylieWyley wrote: »

It'll be on all day. We have 2 heats in the morning and 2 finals in the afternoon. Racing usually runs from about 10am - 4pm(ish) with a break at lunch time. Come along whenever suits !

Most people are quite friendly and happy to explain what you need to do to get started. I run a 4-stroke Biland and work from a trailer hitched to a Honda HR-V. Feel free to say hello if you see me

Brilliant I'll do my best to get up! I think it only a 30 drive from Kilkenny town. If I spot you I'll say hello, cheers man!

KylieWyley

stedabee wrote: »

Brilliant I'll do my best to get up! I think it only a 30 drive from Kilkenny town. If I spot you I'll say hello, cheers man!

No probs! If you haven't seen real karts in action before, you're in for a treat

mick993

KylieWyley wrote: »

Hey Mick, depending on what the individual is looking to get out of it, you may be right. I can see pluses to both club and national level.

What I would say to the OP is to go along to as many meetings (both national and club) and talk to as many people as you can. Many people (perhaps myself included) will have their own slanted view of what's best and, at the end of the day, it will be up to you to decide what best suits your circumstances. Either way, you'll be guaranteed to have some great fun in a kart. It's a fantastic sport - definitely a great alternative to boozing at the weekends

Yeah, drop the booze and the economics stack up very easily.

Memories are better than dreams so get out & do it either way.

iamtony

Hi stedabee, Tony from the kart store here, nice talking to you yesterday!
I'll try give as much info as possible for anyone interested in getting out racing.

Firstly here are a few sites to check out, some are our competitors so look but don't buy anything from them ha ha.
Www.irishkarting.com
Www.kartstore.org (our site)
Www.clama2003.com (tullyallen kart club)
Www.motorsport.ie
Www.murraymotorsport.ie
Www.motorsportireland.com
All above have useful info or race reports in there.

All the advice given by the lads is spot on but there are some things I can advise on that they haven't covered.
Don't fool yourself into thinking karting is cheap cause it ain't! It's not the cheapest form of Motorsport either but it's definitely one of the cheapest.
Initial start up costs are high and yes you can pick up a kart for less than a grand but it will probably break your heart and you will end up spending more than you had originally intended on spending.
Things you can't do without(and prices):
Kart inc. engine(I always recommend Rotax)
Trolley prices start from about €130
Lap timer inc. water temp sensor and rpm sensor €350
Fuel handling equipment funnel, mixing jug, measuring beaker €50
Helmet from about €150 for anything that might actually protect you I recommend Arai and they start at €390
Rib protector from €80 again for anything worth buying although cheaper ones are out there.
Suit from €100
Boots from €50
Gloves from €15
Rain suit €40
Tyres €160 for new but lots of lads use ex race team tyres for a fraction of the cost.
Range of sprockets €9.00 each
Range or different length chains from€25.00
Transponder(for lap timing) €275.00 or rent from €10 per race
spare parts your going to want to carry:
Track rods from €5.00
Axle from €70
Differnt tooth front sprocket and drum €50.00
Spark plugs for different temperatures €12.00
Different main jets for different temps and altitudes €5.65
Set of wet tyres from €180 again seconds can be used but harder to find than slicks.
Set of wet rims €97.50
Oil from €10.00 per litre
Chain lube €10.00
Carb cleaner €3.50
Brake cleaner €2.99
Spare set of brake pads €30
Spare brake disk from €60

Or course all the above are not essential but your not going to want your days racing ruined because you cracked a brake disk and can't get one on track.

Engine rebuilding doesn't have to be done very offer but beware when buying used that it isn't already rebuild time and ask to see the log book which will be stamped by the engine sealer of which there are two very competent ones in Ireland who are Brennan's racing in Kilkenny and tred up north. I can courier to both of these guys for €15.00 on anyone's behalf from our Dublin based shop.

Accommodation isn't nessisary when doing the tullyallen championship and you live on the east coast as all there events are local enough(at present) and you just show up on the Sunday morning.

Transporting the Kart isn't to difficult in a decent sized car you basically need to measure your boot opening and see have you got 1050mm(length of back axle with wheels off or about 1450mm needed with wheels on) for the kart to go in although a van or trailer is preferred. I've also seen karts on roof racks which is a good option.
On race day your entry fee will be €60-70 for Tullyallen(depending if you need to rent a transponder or not) or 90-100 for national championship.
For the national championship you will need a race licence which will cost about €100.00

That's all I can think of right now hope I didn't scare anyone! Bottom line is your going to spend anywhere from 2-4k getting set up and from then on its pretty cheap.
If anyone would like to visit our shop and have a chat with us feel free to pm me for details or visit our site for directs and call up.
And finally I'd just like to say karting is a great hobby and fully of very helpful and friendly folk who will be more than happy to help you get going, but don't expect any help of them once you get quick;-)

stedabee

Thanks a mill tony, some great info there. Unfortunately I didn't make it to the Kilkenny meeting as I was very busy in the b&b so hopefully the next meeting I can. I'll definently head out to your shop over the next two weeks to have a look so I can make up my mind and I'll call you to let you know.

From what Ive heard and read the rotax class seems to have a good few people in it so I'm pretty sure that's the class ill enter. I'll be buying a suit,gloves,boots,helmet, transponder, trolley, and of coarse a kart just wondering which chassis to get? Then any other tools, spares that are essential or needed I'll buy too.

iamtony

No problem! Regarding which chassis to choose, there are many makes out there and all are proven to be capable of winning races but in Ireland most tend to go for Tonykart or one of the sister brands in the otk range which include Kosmic, redspeed and a few others I can't think of. Be warned though otk stuff is very expensive!! On the plus side it's widely available and we stock most common items but just to give a comparison on price an otk brake disk is €200 and a brake disk for a lesser known chassis is about €60 or a rear 50mm axle is about €190 for otk and about €60 for other brands, I could go on all day with that.
Another myth bandied around is otk karts require little set up to be quick compared to other karts but the truth is all karts need to be set up differently for different tracks, weather conditions, different tyres, how much rubber is on the track etc. etc.
I'd personally recommend a new engine as it will be trouble free and come with a warranty and this will give you more if an advantage than any chassis you can find. But that's not to say used engines aren't as quick, in fact in some cases quicker but you just don't know especially if your just starting.
Here's some tools you will need or should have:
Good set of Allen keys from 2-8mm t bars are usually the karters choice we sell beta €40 a set but it doesn't have an 8mm
Spanner set and a socket set wouldn't hurt halfords or aldi will do fine make sure it has an extension bar to reach wheel nuts.
Rotax specific tools include
Clutch pullers €30.00
Clutch locking tool €15.00
38mm socket halfords
Brake bleeding tool €35.00
Steering locking tool €25.00
Rubber hammer €16.00
Tyre tools, bead breaker, tyre lever etc. From €50
Something to blow up tyres a 12v tyre inflator can be used of ideally a compressor
Good tyre pressure gauge€35.00

stedabee

Brilliant! Ye I'll have to get all the tools too, feel like I'll never get started...can't wait! Have money sitting there waiting to be spent haha, So annoyed I missed the Kilkenny meeting! Another thing I was wondering was how do the transponders work? Is it gps or does it hook up with the track ur on? How does it know where the start/finish line is?

SouperComputer

Transponders basically work by passing over an induction loop on the track at the start/finish line. Each transponder has a unique code that is assigned to you in the software.

iamtony gave a good comprehensive list of stuff you might need, but keep in mind that when you are starting out, many of those things you might get bundled with the Kart you buy (Mychon onboard lap timer for example) and others you mighn't use often enough to justify buying and might be better off bumming off someone once in a while (clutch puller). Other things are nice to have for sure, but you can usually figure out something (brake bleeder, steering locking tool). I admit im an aweful fellah for trying to make tools up to a fault. Luckily a lot of this stuff we have in the team trailer now but I've still been known to "McGruber" a thing or two when I'm running by myself.

Good tyre pressure gauge is a must though. When you gain experience you will find yourself adjusting pressures by as little as a quarter of a psi.

In terms of the kart chassis, overall condition and availability of spares are much more important than the year, make or model. There's a lot to be said for someone who is willing to spend some time with you at the track to get you started as well, so bear that in mind.

stedabee

SouperComputer wrote: »

Transponders basically work by passing over an induction loop on the track at the start/finish line. Each transponder has a unique code that is assigned to you in the software.

But what I was wondering is how does it know where the start/finish is? Is there a chip or antenna on the line sending the signal to the transponder?

Good tyre pressure gauge is a must though. When you gain experience you will find yourself adjusting pressures by as little as a quarter of a psi.

Wow thats crazy! Ye tony mentioned I need a decent gauge so I'll spend the money on a good one!

In terms of the kart chassis, overall condition and availability of spares are much more important than the year, make or model. There's a lot to be said for someone who is willing to spend some time with you at the track to get you started as well, so bear that in mind.

When u say there's a lot to be said for someone who is willing to spend time with me do u mean I'll find it hard on my own to get up and running?

Cheers supercomputer

SouperComputer

stedabee wrote: »

When u say there's a lot to be said for someone who is willing to spend time with me do u mean I'll find it hard on my own to get up and running?

Cheers supercomputer

No no, I just mean jimmy rigging stuff to hold the steering central if you are doing an aligment, or making your own brake bleeder or whatever rather than borrowing or buying thats all. Karts nowadays are pretty user friendly, between that, the helpful people at the track and the plethora of info on the web you'll be fine.

ScumLord

What is a C-plate race?

I was looking on http://www.irishkarting.com/ at upcoming races and I saw there's a C-plate race on this Sunday at Whiteriver. I wanted to go for researching buying a kart but I don't really know what c-plate is and if they'll be racing the kind of karts I'll be looking to buy.

The other question is what time do these races start? It gives the date but no start times.

If it's completely unrelated to beginners there's a championship race at Pallas karting at the end of next month that I could go to.

mick993

ScumLord wrote: »

What is a C-plate race?

I was looking on http://www.irishkarting.com/ at upcoming races and I saw there's a C-plate race on this Sunday at Whiteriver. I wanted to go for researching buying a kart but I don't really know what c-plate is and if they'll be racing the kind of karts I'll be looking to buy.

The other question is what time do these races start? It gives the date but no start times.

If it's completely unrelated to beginners there's a championship race at Pallas karting at the end of next month that I could go to.

The "C" plate is the champions race meeting.
I'm pretty sure it will entitle the winner in each class on the day the right to wear "C" as his race number for the year.

Sunday will be the day to attend, probably on track from 10AM, but try get there by 12 at latest.

There will be the class you are looking for out racing.

There are a few karts about for sale at the moment that would be good packages for somebody to buy. As in, fully documented engine build history etc, without being mad over priced.

I'll be there for a while both Saturday & Sunday along with a few other mates if you want a heads up on anything.

PM me for my number if you like.

mick993

iamtony wrote: »

No problem! Regarding which chassis to choose, there are many makes out there and all are proven to be capable of winning races but in Ireland most tend to go for Tonykart or one of the sister brands in the otk range which include Kosmic, redspeed and a few others I can't think of. Be warned though otk stuff is very expensive!! On the plus side it's widely available and we stock most common items but just to give a comparison on price an otk brake disk is €200 and a brake disk for a lesser known chassis is about €60 or a rear 50mm axle is about €190 for otk and about €60 for other brands, I could go on all day with that.
Another myth bandied around is otk karts require little set up to be quick compared to other karts but the truth is all karts need to be set up differently for different tracks, weather conditions, different tyres, how much rubber is on the track etc. etc.
I'd personally recommend a new engine as it will be trouble free and come with a warranty and this will give you more if an advantage than any chassis you can find. But that's not to say used engines aren't as quick, in fact in some cases quicker but you just don't know especially if your just starting.
Here's some tools you will need or should have:
Good set of Allen keys from 2-8mm t bars are usually the karters choice we sell beta €40 a set but it doesn't have an 8mm
Spanner set and a socket set wouldn't hurt halfords or aldi will do fine make sure it has an extension bar to reach wheel nuts.
Rotax specific tools include
Clutch pullers €30.00
Clutch locking tool €15.00
38mm socket halfords
Brake bleeding tool €35.00
Steering locking tool €25.00
Rubber hammer €16.00
Tyre tools, bead breaker, tyre lever etc. From €50
Something to blow up tyres a 12v tyre inflator can be used of ideally a compressor
Good tyre pressure gauge€35.00

Delighted to see you out racing with TKC on Sunday Tony. Hope you had good craic and that you'll be in Santry on the 26th for another go?

As you probably witnessed yourself, there's a very helpful atmosphere at our race meetings. This includes lending out tools and gauges and generally helping other racers to get ready for action. Of course as soon as the karts hit the track...............

I think I was karting 7 months before I even bought my own fuel funnel, so I wouldn't let a big list of equipment put anyone off as a lot of it can easily be borrowed.

ScumLord

mick993 wrote: »

As in, fully documented engine build history etc, without being mad over priced.

On engine rebuilds, both my other friends are amateur mechanics, do you need to have some registered guy rebuild the engines, we've been looking in to that too and it seems straight forward enough to rebuild them.

mick993

ScumLord wrote: »

On engine rebuilds, both my other friends are amateur mechanics, do you need to have some registered guy rebuild the engines, we've been looking in to that too and it seems straight forward enough to rebuild them.

Ideally, don't buy any kart without a properly sealed engine. You will find it next to impossible to sell on again & most race series wouldn't let you out to race.

They are relatively easy to repair, but also to "Fettle" and for this reason they are sealed so as to be as equal and legal as possible to allow the testing of pure driver skill which is what racing is about.

There are dedicated sealing agents who are reasonable €€€ enough to re-build engines.

ScumLord

Would it be possible to do the engine rebuilding personally during the learning phase and then send the engine to the official agents for rebuild and confirmation everything is as it's supposed to be before entering the first race?

Or is it a case of once the seals been broke outside of an official agents garage the engines ruined from an official point of view. If we don't tamper with the engine I don't see how they'd know unless the agent won't stand over it and work on it.

mick993

The engines aren't that temperamental or soft that they need re-building every race. Depending on the hours on an engine when you get it, you should get a whole season out of one before partial re-building.

Typically, a refresh (piston & ring) would be about €130 including re-sealing & updating the log book.
A full re-build (piston, ring, con rod & bearings etc) maybe €550.

You would get 15Hrs between changing the piston & ring and 45Hrs out of the con rod & bearings.

That's a lot of racing.

If the seal had been broken, the component parts would possibly have to be sent to the UK for weighing & verification before the engine could be re-sealed and that would be quite costly.

iamtony

Hi mick, must say I had a brilliant time at my first race! Everyone was very very helpful and no you don't need to own all the equipment I listed but over time I think most would like to acquire them.

My advice to anyone half thinking of doing this is just do it! You won't regret it!
I had a few hiccups and had to get my Kart collected from the side of the track resulting in not finishing the practise session or heat 1 but that was part of the fun! Then my accomplishment for the day was actually finishing the final, all be it last made for a great day.

I dived in at the deep end though and I would advise going practising before an actual race and getting some confidence up and learning the track a little and if possible go with someone that knows what there doing!

Yes mick I'll be in santry with bells on;-)

iamtony

Also a bit of advise of your looking to buy a used chassis is wait until the season is over in September I think and all the teams will be selling there 2012 chassis for about €1000 each.

mick993

Now we have you Tony, we'll keep you busy
It would be an awful pity to hang up the chassis for 6 months of the year.

Tullyallen had a very successful Winter series last year and we'll be doing it again this Winter.

Cracking off at the end of October and with 1 race per month until March when we'll kick off the Summer again.

We'll even be doing organised test sessions in between races....sure what else would a petrol head get up to?

ScumLord

That Whiteriver track is some set up. Some pictures from the c-plate races.

Jordan 199

I see a Jenson Button fan takes part. Is that some kind of trip computer attached to the steering wheel in the third photo?

ScumLord

Jordan 191 wrote: »

I see a Jenson Button fan takes part. Is that some kind of trip computer attached to the steering wheel in the third photo?

Yeah they all have transponders. There was commentary at it and everything, everyone's lap was being recorded using proper timing and the commentators seemed to be able to use the data for the commentary.

SouperComputer

The transponder system is separate to the screen you are seeing on the wheel. The transponder is a standalone "brick" that identifies you as you cross the line for official scoring and laptimes. A lot of the tracks use AMB's hardware and their software called Orbits. AMB also has a service at mylaps.com that the results can be uploaded to. Lastly, you can also monitor the live scoring as it happens with race-monitor.com if the track has set it up.

The screen on the kart is for the driver and is part of an onboard data acquisition system, it has a separate piece of hardware to trigger laptimes, usually infra-red or magnetic. You can go from a basic unit that logs laptimes and one temp with RPMs to a fully fledged PI system with active tire temp monitoring and all sorts of stuff. Most people use MyChron products on their karts Alfano are populare too. In my case I have an older MyChron 3 gold. Its old but very good, it logs speed\distance, RPM, selected gear, lateral G and two temperatures (I usually log exhaust gas and water temp). You can download the data and disect it, break the track into sectors, work out a theoretical best lap and all sorts of fun stuff.

http://www.aimsports.com/karting/index.html

If you have an onboard camera, you can combine the data from your logger with a video using software like racerender to display "live" animated gauges of the data overlayed on a video. Cool stuff.
I'm hoping to do an onboard vid this year that includes data from the kart AND heart rate. Should be interesting

gunnerman1100

This has to be one of the most informative thread's I've every read through. Planning to make a trip to santry on Sunday to the Tullyallen karting round to enquire on getting involved in karting. By the looks of it there are going to be a few people going around asking questions lol

Bobby04

gunnerman1100 wrote: »

This has to be one of the most informative thread's I've every read through. Planning to make a trip to santry on Sunday to the Tullyallen karting round to enquire on getting involved in karting. By the looks of it there are going to be a few people going around asking questions lol

Did you go on Sunday and if yes how did you get on?

gunnerman1100

Bobby04 wrote: »

Did you go on Sunday and if yes how did you get on?

Yep I went on Sunday wasn't racing or anything was only asking question's and looking for prices for the SuperPro class on how much karts cost etc etc etc.