Why Are Irish Rail Failing so badly

bazza1

Loss making services have not been cut as the politicians will not sanction such cuts at this time. The €36m is less than was cut from this years budget.

dowlingm

bazza1 wrote: »

Loss making services have not been cut as the politicians will not sanction such cuts at this time.

Certainly not the North Tipp Ghost Train!

davidlacey

As I have been continually saying its the little things that are making people use alternative forms of transport, take this photo I took today for example:



Rathdrum which is an unmanned station, with a locked up ticket office and toilets, no current automatic ticket machines and a park by text carpark. Not appealing to anybody. This is the view of many stations across the land. How would anybody want to travel on rail when A) You have a timetable which looks like this:

http://www.irishrail.ie/media/11_DublinRosslareEuroport111.pdf

A fare system Dublin Connolly -Rathdrum (as an example)which looks like that:

http://www.irishrail.ie/index.jsp?p=118&n=197&a=265#Dublin Connolly - Rosslare Fare Grid

Adult Single€15.00
Adult Day Return€16.50
Adult Open Return€20.00
Student Single€10.00
Student Return€15.00
16-25 Railcard Single€11.50
16-25 Railcard Return€16.50
Family Day Return €35.00
Family Open Return€55.50

C)and a station which looks like that above, they are the main reasons that are factoring in on people choosing cars , buses and in some cases planes above rail transport. Getting a Cork-Dublin train to go an extra 10 minutes faster is not going to bring hoards of people back to the railways.

davidlacey

I cannot post my photo, how can one do this if you are required to supply a URL

CIE

davidlacey wrote: »

I cannot post my photo, how can one do this if you are required to supply a URL

If you have your photo online, you should be able to use a URL with the "IMG" tag.

Judgement Day

davidlacey wrote: »

I cannot post my photo, how can one do this if you are required to supply a URL

Sign up for a http://www.flickr.com/ account or something similar.

davidlacey

Judgement Day wrote: »

davidlacey wrote: »

I cannot post my photo, how can one do this if you are required to supply a URL

Sign up for a http://www.flickr.com/ account or something similar.

I wil have to the photo adds drama to my previous post

challengemaster

Wouldn't usually post in here but IMO, the main factor is price. I was in Italy earlier in the summer and did quite a bit of travelling via trains, and most of the tickets were €9, with the more expensive ones being €19 (Adult prices). Small regional ones like the DART were under €2-3 IIRC.

At €45 for a return Athlone-Dublin, I could drive it for less than half the cost, in less time, and still have the convenience of my car in Dublin.

goingnowhere

davidlacey wrote: »

As I have been continually saying its the little things that are making people use alternative forms of transport, take this photo I took today for example:



Rathdrum which is an unmanned station, with a locked up ticket office and toilets, no current automatic ticket machines and a park by text carpark. Not appealing to anybody. This is the view of many stations across the land. How would anybody want to travel on rail when A) You have a timetable which looks like this:

http://www.irishrail.ie/media/11_DublinRosslareEuroport111.pdf

A fare system Dublin Connolly -Rathdrum (as an example)which looks like that:

http://www.irishrail.ie/index.jsp?p=118&n=197&a=265#Dublin Connolly - Rosslare Fare Grid

Adult Single€15.00
Adult Day Return€16.50
Adult Open Return€20.00
Student Single€10.00
Student Return€15.00
16-25 Railcard Single€11.50
16-25 Railcard Return€16.50
Family Day Return €35.00
Family Open Return€55.50

C)and a station which looks like that above, they are the main reasons that are factoring in on people choosing cars , buses and in some cases planes above rail transport. Getting a Cork-Dublin train to go an extra 10 minutes faster is not going to bring hoards of people back to the railways.

Like to see you try Rathdrum to Dublin with Bus Eireann for a 9am start, not possible.

Hilly Bill

nbar12 wrote: »

well i dont drink so I wouldnt know the price of a pint, anyway thats only a single fair, €4.50 for a return. I think that's a little steep if you use the dart regularly imo.

No its not unless you expect to travel for little or nothing. Still cheaper than a taxi.

Hilly Bill

foggy_lad wrote: »

Get rid of subvention and hand the routes over to private operators and see how well they are able to operate the services!

Are there any knocking on the door asking?

icdg

dowlingm wrote: »

Don't get me wrong, I want to think an open access/franchise model could work in Ireland but let's be grown ups and accept that public transport costs money irrespective of ownership.
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Within a few short years the combined subvention to the train operating companies was over double that which BRB received in 1995, the last year it had full control of train operations in Great Britain. You can't really hold BR up as a model of how private ownership should work on the railways and Great Britain is practically the only major country where there is a majority privately operated network in place. Even in the States, where public ownership is practically a dirty word, there is the publicly owned and funded Amtrak, and many metro/suburban rail operations are under public control too.

foggy_lad

Hilly Bill wrote: »

foggy_lad wrote: »

Get rid of subvention and hand the routes over to private operators and see how well they are able to operate the services!

Are there any knocking on the door asking?

No becausebthey could not compete with a company which is supported and kept from receivership by the state. No company can compete when the state will financially back the C.I.E. companies till the world bank takes over. Are Irish Rail ready for when their current exemptions run out? Will they require another bailout when they have to follow the same rules as everyone else?

davidlacey

http://www.flickr.com/photos/83458046@N05/7646196326/in/photostream

theres the photo of rathdrum, pretty isnt it?

Hilly Bill

Are you expecting cheaper fares if the likes of Virgin took over? Would you be guaranteed a better service? what would happen if they then ran into trouble and pulled out? No trains? You would be on here 24/7 then moaning about them.
If you got your way Foggy you would have to find a new hobby and this board would be quiet .

foggy_lad

davidlacey wrote: »

http://www.flickr.com/photos/83458046@N05/7646196326/in/photostream

theres the photo of rathdrum, pretty isnt it?

What do people expect for the few people a week that use the station? Spending thousands staffing it 12 hours a day is waste and keeping it open so kids and junkies can use the toilets is just stupid. Economies of scale come into it and rathdrum will never be as busy as a larger station regardless of any improvements.

Supersiderman

Tried last night and today to book tickets on Irish Rail web for next month for the missus birthday but when I put my credit card details in, the web says website down.

davidlacey

http://eiretrains.com/Photo_Gallery/Railway%20Stations%20N/Newbridge/slides/Newbridge_20100122_007_CC_JA.html

http://eiretrains.com/Photo_Gallery/Railway%20Stations%20S/Sallins/slides/Sallins_20100617_003_CC_JA.html

http://eiretrains.com/Photo_Gallery/Railway%20Stations%20B/Bray/slides/Bray_20090604_0018_CC.html

Good examples of places that are not great on the eye need a face lift considering the passenger numbers on these stations and the first two there barley have any staff in the place and a toilet to use. IE don't have the money but ive said it before why can't busy commuter stations look like this:

http://www.google.ie/imgres?imgurl=http://archiseek.com/wp-content/gallery/news-2009/newry_railway_station.jpg&imgrefurl=http://archiseek.com/2009/first-look-newry-railway-station-northern-ireland-by-robinson-mcilwaine-architects/&h=440&w=590&sz=69&tbnid=f7PBsYzt7S7ewM:&tbnh=121&tbnw=162&zoom=1&usg=__vAle187a4GH4iYWEdLnV1p1_Guo=&docid=PrZ8m9t9kywLfM&hl=en&sa=X&ei=1W0QUObOLMuWhQfivoDABA&ved=0CD0Q9QEwAA&dur=350

Judgement Day

Places like Bray are forever getting 'facelifts' but then they are allowed to fall apart again due to poor maintenance. Bray is a kip and I have repeatedly complained to Dick Fearn about the state of the place but to no avail.

davidlacey

its digraceful how it is and living here I would much rather use the bus, plus for a station of it size it must have the most staff too

Cookie_Monster

1. Semi State
2. Unions.
3. No accountability at all to anyone except 2 because of point 1

Heisenberg1

davidlacey wrote: »

its digraceful how it is and living here I would much rather use the bus, plus for a station of it size it must have the most staff too

Don´t blame the staff for the state the station is in blame the people who use.

davidlacey

luzon wrote: »

davidlacey wrote: »

its digraceful how it is and living here I would much rather use the bus, plus for a station of it size it must have the most staff too

Don´t blame the staff for the state the station is in blame the people who use.

Never blamed the staff but surely they could do more than all sit at the ticket machine or do the unions not allow it

schemingbohemia

challengemaster wrote: »

Wouldn't usually post in here but IMO, the main factor is price. I was in Italy earlier in the summer and did quite a bit of travelling via trains, and most of the tickets were €9, with the more expensive ones being €19 (Adult prices). Small regional ones like the DART were under €2-3 IIRC.

At €45 for a return Athlone-Dublin, I could drive it for less than half the cost, in less time, and still have the convenience of my car in Dublin.

Athlone-Dublin is €14.99 single, so a fiver more than in Italy, how much less did you pay in Italy for your espresso or Pizza than here?

Return is €30 so how much would petrol, tolls and parking add to your trip to Dublin?

Judgement Day

luzon wrote: »

Don´t blame the staff for the state the station is in blame the people who use.

Would you go away outta that! The state of Bray station - toilets not maintained, buffet closed down, bookstall closed down for 'operational reasons'....fat lot that has to do with the public.

Losty Dublin

davidlacey wrote: »

http://eiretrains.com/Photo_Gallery/Railway%20Stations%20N/Newbridge/slides/Newbridge_20100122_007_CC_JA.html

http://eiretrains.com/Photo_Gallery/Railway%20Stations%20S/Sallins/slides/Sallins_20100617_003_CC_JA.html

http://eiretrains.com/Photo_Gallery/Railway%20Stations%20B/Bray/slides/Bray_20090604_0018_CC.html

Good examples of places that are not great on the eye need a face lift considering the passenger numbers on these stations and the first two there barley have any staff in the place and a toilet to use. IE don't have the money but ive said it before why can't busy commuter stations look like this:

http://www.google.ie/imgres?imgurl=http://archiseek.com/wp-content/gallery/news-2009/newry_railway_station.jpg&imgrefurl=http://archiseek.com/2009/first-look-newry-railway-station-northern-ireland-by-robinson-mcilwaine-architects/&h=440&w=590&sz=69&tbnid=f7PBsYzt7S7ewM:&tbnh=121&tbnw=162&zoom=1&usg=__vAle187a4GH4iYWEdLnV1p1_Guo=&docid=PrZ8m9t9kywLfM&hl=en&sa=X&ei=1W0QUObOLMuWhQfivoDABA&ved=0CD0Q9QEwAA&dur=350

Most stations in Ireland have varying level of preservation or heritage orders attached to the building or some facet on the site; it's not as simple as sending the builders in and letting them work away, even if it looks untidy to you or me.

That station in Newry is new, it's maybe 3 years old now. If CIE had have razed most of their stations in the 50's and 60's as the UTA and NIR did and Westmins, maybe we'd have more glass box stations like it instead of authentic stone and brick buildings.

foggy_lad

Judgement Day wrote: »

Would you go away outta that! The state of Bray station - toilets not maintained, buffet closed down, bookstall closed down for 'operational reasons'....fat lot that has to do with the public.

Buffets and bookstalls? Get with the real world program, those things went out with the steam age. Now people want to get in and out as quickly as possible to get to work on time and to get home to spend precious time worth family and friends. We don't want no cotton buffet in bray it's not like it is out in the wilderness miles from anywhere like it once used to be.

Judgement Day

foggy_lad wrote: »

Buffets and bookstalls? Get with the real world program, those things went out with the steam age. Now people want to get in and out as quickly as possible to get to work on time and to get home to spend precious time worth family and friends. We don't want no cotton buffet in bray it's not like it is out in the wilderness miles from anywhere like it once used to be.

And I thought that you were well travelled! Bookstalls have been enjoying something of a comeback in recent years and the one in Bray was thriving until CIE/IE terminated the lease and closed it up as it was needed for operational reasons - would you like me to put up Dick Fearn's letter? As for the buffet it has passed through two tenants in recent years - not in Edwardian times - and it was of considerable use to patrons. It should not be beyond the management of CIE/IE to find a new tenant. Every cent those useless management wasters lose means people lying on hospital trolleys for longer, special needs assistants being cut etc.etc.etc.

dowlingm

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Most stations in Ireland have varying level of preservation or heritage orders attached to the building or some facet on the site; it's not as simple as sending the builders in and letting them work away, even if it looks untidy to you or me.

That's why I think it's critical to create a funding or operating environment which removes the burden of 150 year old building upkeep from the fare paying customer. The State wishes to preserve transport heritage? Excellent. But if the user of those structures are in a to-the-death war with private competitors (and sister companies) then the State should move the ownership of those buildings to a "neutral" body, including at stations not currently operational but still in CIE ownership, and with the upkeep being paid in a way that could not be "blamed" on rail or state bus service. CIE could then lease internal space as required at a reasonable rate consistent with local property rents.

davidlacey

Judgement Day wrote: »

foggy_lad wrote: »

Buffets and bookstalls? Get with the real world program, those things went out with the steam age. Now people want to get in and out as quickly as possible to get to work on time and to get home to spend precious time worth family and friends. We don't want no cotton buffet in bray it's not like it is out in the wilderness miles from anywhere like it once used to be.

And I thought that you were well travelled! Bookstalls have been enjoying something of a comeback in recent years and the one in Bray was thriving until CIE/IE terminated the lease and closed it up as it was needed for operational reasons - would you like me to put up Dick Fearn's letter? As for the buffet it has passed through two tenants in recent years - not in Edwardian times - and it was of considerable use to patrons. It should not be beyond the management of CIE/IE to find a new tenant. Every cent those useless management wasters lose means people lying on hospital trolleys for longer, special needs assistants being cut etc.etc.etc.

These buffets abd bookstalls add to the experience for passengers especially tourists as bray has become particularly busy for tourists during the summer, and what do they see a few ticket machines automatic barriers and few old toilets just what the consumers want, oh and as i said a few staff standing over the barriers with nothing better to do!