How to be an accepting Catholic

doctoremma

Onesimus wrote: »

Any show of sexual affection between homosexuals albeit physical or internal ones.

So if you are homosexual and fall in love with someone else, is that part of the "sin"?

28064212

Stark wrote: »

A myth spread by Youth Defence. Studies have shown that women who have abortions don't suffer long term psychological distress.

Strictly speaking, that's not true. Women who've had abortions do have a higher level of mental health problems than the general population. What pro-life advocates completely ignore is that they do not have a higher-level of mental health problems than women who have an unwanted pregnancy and carry it to full-term.

An unwanted pregnancy is the traumatic event, having an abortion does not increase the trauma over carrying it to full term

Onesimus

doctoremma wrote: »

So if you are homosexual and fall in love with someone else, is that part of the "sin"?

Yes because it is a distorted ''love'' that is not the Love of Christ. The word ''Love'' carries a variety of meanings in cultures, religions and philosophical groups around the world.

The narrow path that leads to authentic love is through the eyes of Christ. I fell in Love with my wife through his eyes and not of the worlds. I can love a man through his eyes and I can love a woman ( who is not my wife ) through his eyes.

That kind of discussion could open up the doors for discussion upon what is ''true love''. But I'm not up for that because describing my relationship with Christ to someone who has not developed a relationship with him and tasted his sweetness would be similar to trying describe the face of one man I seen, to somebody whose never seen him before in words. The description and look of the man will never suffice until the person I am trying to describe the man to actually sees the man. Same with describing graces or Love to someone. It may act as an incentive or pointer for the person to go and develop a relationship with Christ but the description will always be fruitless in a sense because it cannot be explained in words.

I have enough grey hairs in me head without the stress of having to describe true love to someone:pac::D

doctoremma

Onesimus wrote: »

Yes because it is a distorted ''love'' that is not the Love of Christ.

Thanks for trying to explain.

Do you think you can help who you fall in love with?

Corkfeen

If a Christian voted in favour of same sex marriage, would that be un-Christian or a sin because of them respecting the rights of the individual?

Actor

Corkfeen wrote: »

If a Christian voted in favour of same sex marriage, would that be un-Christian or a sin because of them respecting the rights of the individual?

As Cardinal Arinze would say - you don't need a cardinal to answer that question. All you need to do is ask a boy or girl making their first Holy Communion - they'd give you the right answer right away.

Voting in line with the Labour Party is not an option for Catholics.

coffee_cake

I would have said it was fine when I was making mine

glad that's sorted so

Corkfeen

Actor wrote: »

Corkfeen wrote: »

If a Christian voted in favour of same sex marriage, would that be un-Christian or a sin because of them respecting the rights of the individual?

As Cardinal Arinze would say - you don't need a cardinal to answer that question. All you need to do is ask a boy or girl making their first Holy Communion - they'd give you the right answer right away.

Voting in line with the Labour Party is not an option for Catholics.

I was genuinely interested because a large proportion of the country are in favour of it. I don't think the vast majority of children doing their communion would have a clue or confirmation for that matter on which way to vote for most things....

Benny_Cake

Actor wrote: »

Corkfeen wrote: »

If a Christian voted in favour of same sex marriage, would that be un-Christian or a sin because of them respecting the rights of the individual?

As Cardinal Arinze would say - you don't need a cardinal to answer that question. All you need to do is ask a boy or girl making their first Holy Communion - they'd give you the right answer right away.

Voting in line with the Labour Party is not an option for Catholics.

So who can Catholics vote for? I wasn't aware that the Irish church had dipped it's toes into party politics?

doctoremma

Corkfeen wrote: »

I was genuinely interested because a large proportion of the country are in favour of it.

Having just browsed a Wiki article on same-sex relationships in Ireland, I was surprised to see such a high figure supporting equality. You could think from some of the posters here that it was a marginal issue.

Onesimus

doctoremma wrote: »

Thanks for trying to explain.

Do you think you can help who you fall in love with?

Again with such a question you would be approaching me with your interpretation of what ''falling in love'' means.

I would vote instead for ''Do I think I can help who I fall into lustful attraction or obsession with?''

The answer would be ''No'' I cannot stop thoughts and feelings from arising within me any more than I can hold my breath and keep it that way without dying. But I can resist them (the thoughts and feelings/temptations that is) with prayer and the power of God.

But just because I cannot help these thoughts arising within me does not mean that I should give assent to them and disregard God's authentic love to indulge in my own desire of what I believe love to be.

Rasheed

crfcaio wrote: »

Hi everyone, this is my first time posting here!

So, as some of you might know, Catholicism in South America is HUGE - thank you (I guess) Spaniards and Portuguese colonizers -, and I was "raised" a Catholic - after all, I come from a country where almost 70% of its people are Catholics.

I sometimes feel like there's something missing in my life - I always thought it was religion and faith. The problem? Well, according to what I know, the bible says several things are wrong, include homosexuality. I am not homosexual, but I've met people who are, and there's nothing wrong with them, and I can't understand why God would create something that is against His will. Aren't all men made after His image?

So, for this reason, I've never dwelt deep enough in Catholicism - because of what it says is okay and what's not.

Is there any way I can exert the religion while still holding on to my personal opinions about certain subjects? I've always liked how being in a religious group - at least that's my idea of it - you don't feel "alone" anymore - there are people who share the same views and faith as you do.

Any and all help is appreciated.

I am a Catholic also but like yourself, have difficulty in follownig all it's teaching. I think homosexuals have the right to find love and happiness and marry their partner as much as anyone.

I think contraception is a basic human choice as is abortion. I may not agree with something but I do believe everyone should have a choice.

To give you my point of view, I always have and hopefully always will be a Catholic. I won't accept that it's anyones right to tell me that I can't be a Catholic because I don't fully follow it's code. I try to live my life as best I can and if thats not good enough, well that's between me and my God and nobody else.

Actor

Benny_Cake wrote: »

So who can Catholics vote for? I wasn't aware that the Irish church had dipped it's toes into party politics?

You'd be naive to think the Church don't have an interest in political matters pertaining to faith and morals.

The Church is very clear on abortion. The Labour party and its members are a pro-abortion party. In particular, any legislator who publicly or privately facilitates abortion (i.e. murder) will find they are not welcome at the altar rail until they make up for their sins. IIRC, abortion (particularly in the case of legislators) is almost an excommunication matter.

It will be very interesting to see how Taoiseach Enda Kenny fares against Eamon Gilmore in the matter of Catholic consistency.

Benny_Cake

Corkfeen wrote: »

I was genuinely interested because a large proportion of the country are in favour of it. I don't think the vast majority of children doing their communion would have a clue or confirmation for that matter on which way to vote for most things....

I don't think that I would have even conceived of the notion,but I made my communion in 1986! I think it's quite encouraging that support for same-sex marriage is growing, and I think it's largely because most people now know at least one gay person and are quite aware that giving them the right to make a lifelong commitment to another person won't lead to the collapse of civilisation.

doctoremma

Onesimus wrote: »

Again with such a question you would be approaching me with your interpretation of what ''falling in love'' means.

I would vote instead for ''Do I think I can help who I fall into lustful attraction or obsession with?''

Have you rephrased it because you don't want to allow the term "in love" to be used to describe the feelings shared by a homosexual couple? Because, by your definition, they cannot be "in love"?

Onesimus wrote: »

The answer would be ''No'' I cannot stop thoughts and feelings from arising within me any more than I can hold my breath and keep it that way without dying. But I can resist them (the thoughts and feelings/temptations that is) with prayer and the power of God.

But just because I cannot help these thoughts arising within me does not mean that I should give assent to them and disregard God's authentic love to indulge in my own desire of what I believe love to be.

Do you think your outlook might change if you felt love/affection/lust for another man? Do you think love is something that can be casually tossed aside, that can be resisted with a little bit of willpower (whereever you source your willpower from)? Do you not find being in love with your chosen partner an all-consuming fire, a passion, a life without it not worth living?

Actor

Rasheed wrote: »

I am a Catholic also but like yourself, have difficulty in follownig all it's teaching. I think homosexuals have the right to find love and happiness and marry their partner as much as anyone.

I think contraception is a basic human choice as is abortion. I may not agree with something but I do believe everyone should have a choice.

To give you my point of view, I always have and hopefully always will be a Catholic. I won't accept that it's anyones right to tell me that I can't be a Catholic because I don't fully follow it's code. I try to live my life as best I can and if thats not good enough, well that's between me and my God and nobody else.

You're really not a Catholic. Catholic by culture perhaps.

doctoremma

Actor wrote: »

You're really not a Catholic.

Perhaps you misread the final part of his/her post?

coffee_cake

Rasheed wrote: »

I am a Catholic also but like yourself, have difficulty in follownig all it's teaching. I think homosexuals have the right to find love and happiness and marry their partner as much as anyone.

I think contraception is a basic human choice as is abortion. I may not agree with something but I do believe everyone should have a choice.

To give you my point of view, I always have and hopefully always will be a Catholic. I won't accept that it's anyones right to tell me that I can't be a Catholic because I don't fully follow it's code. I try to live my life as best I can and if thats not good enough, well that's between me and my God and nobody else.

Why don't you just find a christian church that aligns with what you believe in? Seriously? I don't understand this stubbornness in clinging to a label that has nothing to do with you and that you have declared you won't let it have anything to do with you... other than the label itself

Actor

doctoremma wrote: »

Perhaps you misread the final part of his/her post?

It's the former part of the post that's most disconcerting. As Archbishop Martin said recently: "It requires maturity on those people who want their children to become members of the church community and maturity on those people who say 'I don't believe in God and I really shouldn't be hanging on to the vestiges of faith when I don't really believe in it"

It's not very mature (or logical) to turn up to Mass every Sunday and then go outside preaching abortion, homosexuality, contraception and IVF treatment. It's almost as if it's fashionable these days to go against the grain on these thorny issues.

Benny_Cake

Actor wrote: »

Rasheed wrote: »

I am a Catholic also but like yourself, have difficulty in follownig all it's teaching. I think homosexuals have the right to find love and happiness and marry their partner as much as anyone.

I think contraception is a basic human choice as is abortion. I may not agree with something but I do believe everyone should have a choice.

To give you my point of view, I always have and hopefully always will be a Catholic. I won't accept that it's anyones right to tell me that I can't be a Catholic because I don't fully follow it's code. I try to live my life as best I can and if thats not good enough, well that's between me and my God and nobody else.

You're really not a Catholic. Catholic by culture perhaps.

I don't see what gives you the right to say that. You may not consider him to be a very good Catholic, but he's a Catholic nonetheless. If all Catholics are required to think alike on every issue then the church will be reduced to a fundamentalist sect very quickly. It certainly wouldn't be "catholic" in the sense of being universal.

doctoremma

bluewolf wrote: »

I don't understand this stubbornness in clinging to a label that has nothing to do with you and that you have declared you won't let it have anything to do with you... other than the label itself

One of my family is a Catholic. A pro-choice, pro-contraception, pro-euthanasia, pro-gay rights, anti-Pope, non-mass-attending one, but a Catholic nonetheless. Never tell them any differently!!!

eviltwin

Members of my family are Catholic, they live in sin, have kids out of wedlock, are fully supportive of gay marriage, use birth control and get communion every sunday. The ground hasn't opened up and swallowed them.

Truth be told you have no idea when you go to mass how Catholic someone is, its highly unlikely the majority have views that follow church teachings.

Actor

eviltwin wrote: »

Members of my family are Catholic, they live in sin, have kids out of wedlock, are fully supportive of gay marriage, use birth control and get communion every sunday. The ground hasn't opened up and swallowed them.

Truth be told you have no idea when you go to mass how Catholic someone is, its highly unlikely the majority have views that follow church teachings.

That's pretty immature if you ask me. Still, paper never refused ink the way the Church won't refuse their money.

Actor

Benny_Cake wrote: »

I don't see what gives you the right to say that.

It's pretty clear (i.e. an open and shut case) from the content of their post that he/she is not in communion with the Church. Therefore, he/she should not receive Holy Communion. It's disrespectful and immature to do otherwise.

Onesimus

Have you rephrased it because you don't want to allow the term "in love" to be used to describe the feelings shared by a homosexual couple? Because, by your definition, they cannot be "in love"?

No I have rephrased it because the term ''Love'' is an interpretation that belongs to the world and not to Christians.

Do you think your outlook might change if you felt love/affection/lust for another man? Do you think love is something that can be casually tossed aside, that can be resisted with a little bit of willpower (whereever you source your will power from)? Do you not find being in love with your chosen partner an all-consuming fire, a passion, a life without it not worth living?

Yes the Love that belongs to the world is something that can be casually tossed aside because it is not authentic and the Love I have for my wife is not of this world. So I therefore cannot explain this Christ like love to someone who has not developed or tasted this authentic love of Christ.

The outlook of those who are already homosexual and suffer these lustful thoughts for the same sex and who are Catholic are an outstanding example of someone who resists the temptation. Why? because they have sought and tasted the sweetness and authentic Love of Christ. They have ( as the Gospel tells us ) found that treasure that they do not want to let go of.

I would invite the OP and everyone else to delve into Theology of the Body by Pope John Paul II. The original document is tough to handle but Christopher west breaks it down in his book. I am ashamed to say though that I have only touched the surface of Theology of the Body. It's a big book and a rather huge subject.

Rasheed

Actor wrote: »

It's the former part of the post that's most disconcerting. As Archbishop Martin said recently: "It requires maturity on those people who want their children to become members of the church community and maturity on those people who say 'I don't believe in God and I really shouldn't be hanging on to the vestiges of faith when I don't really believe in it"

It's not very mature (or logical) to turn up to Mass every Sunday and then go outside preaching abortion, homosexuality, contraception and IVF treatment. It's almost as if it's fashionable these days to go against the grain on these thorny issues.

I dont preach to anyone, it's everybody's choice though. And I have never in my life done something because it's fashionable.

eviltwin

Actor wrote: »

That's pretty immature if you ask me. Still, paper never refused ink the way the Church won't refuse their money.

Of course it won't, its a business after all, they can turn a blind eye once they are getting some money in the coffers

Rasheed

bluewolf wrote: »

Why don't you just find a christian church that aligns with what you believe in? Seriously? I don't understand this stubbornness in clinging to a label that has nothing to do with you and that you have declared you won't let it have anything to do with you... other than the label itself

Because I like being a Catholic. My family are Catholics, my friends are Catholics and I like belonging to that community and the sense of togetherness that brings. I enjoy mass, I enjoy going on pilgramiges.

I'm not being particularly stubborn about it, the minute I feel that Im completely at odds with the church, I'll leave. But it'll be my choice.

coffee_cake

Rasheed wrote: »

Because I like being a Catholic. My family are Catholics, my friends are Catholics and I like belonging to that community and the sense of togetherness that brings. I enjoy mass, I enjoy going on pilgramiges.

you can have a sense of community with a church that actually shares your beliefs and has masses too
seriously, "everyone i know is one so i want to fit in too" is such a bad reason

I'm not being particularly stubborn about it, the minute I feel that Im completely at odds with the church, I'll leave. But it'll be my choice.

you are completely at odds with the church...

totus tuus

On 'Cafeteria Catholics':

There are apparently many in the Catholic Church today who outwardly live and worship as Catholics, but who do not accept in its entirety the Catholic faith. That faith is no longer the guiding light of their life. They seek the sacraments of the Church, but are unwilling to accept some of the teachings of the Church. They want the gifts God gives through the Church, but not the sacrifices He asks through the Church.


They foolishly think they do not need the guidance and protection of the chief Shepherd that Christ has provided for His flock. Yet just as the sheep that wanders off and gets separated from the fold become an easy prey to wild animals that would kill and devour it, so Catholics who wander aside from the protective guidance of the Roman Pontiff, the Chief Shepherd whom Christ has provided, become easy prey to the deceptions and wiles of the devil. Such a one may be clever about worldly things, but his vision has become clouded (without the light of faith) as to his own innate weakness, and as to the wisdom of seeking God’s will rather than their own.



Whether or not the rejection of this or that teaching of the Church (divinely revealed) causes total loss of faith, only God knows. Only a grave sin of disbelief can cause this, and only God knows when all the conditions are present. But those who deliberately reject something taught by the Church as divinely revealed, even if taught only by the ordinary magisterium, are walking dangerously close to the edge of the precipice.


The Christian life has always demanded many sacrifices of the true follower of Christ. That is a major part of the cross that His followers are asked to carry. And now the time has come when greater and greater sacrifices are going to be required in order to be a true and practicing Catholic, when more and more what we stand for, what we believe, is going to be challenged and ridiculed. It will take a strong faith, a firm hope and a courageous love to encounter all this and not accept the wisdom of the world. Without these divine helps, that cross will become a "stumbling block," and will be rejected as "foolishness." (1Cor. 1:23-25). Strengthen our faith, Lord, to accept and live all that You have revealed and made known through Your Church. "Blessed are they who have not seen, and yet have believed." (Jn. 20:29)

http://www.rosary-center.org/ll46n4.htm