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How to be an accepting Catholic

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    #92
    Andrewf20
    Registered Users Posts: 3,187 ✭✭✭Andrewf20


    Mintoz wrote: »
    Each child, even in the womb, is destined for an eternal life of joy with God, and frustrating his plan for life, is just not acceptable, in all honesty.

    What are your thoughts on natural miscarraige though? Is this part of Gods plan and if so why?


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    #93
    Mintoz
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 50 ✭✭Mintoz


    Andrewf20 wrote: »
    But why would God create some people as homosexual who are to forever feel guilty about acting out their natural instincts? Why are they denyed the possibiliy of looking forward to a proper heterosexiual relationship in marriage?

    It's a result of the fall. God never 'made' anyone gay. Lots of people are disordered in different ways, sight disorders, walking disorders, reading disorders, speech disorders, the list goes on. It's only a big deal in this time, because it's about sex. Sorry, but it is. People justify everything these days in the name of sex, abortion, divorce.. Bill Clinton showed that. Hence homosexuality being acceptable after the sexual revolution. That's not a co-incedence.

    They are asked to be chaste and bear their crosses with Christ, as everyone else is.


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    #94
    Andrewf20
    Registered Users Posts: 3,187 ✭✭✭Andrewf20


    philologos wrote: »
    I don't think God creates people to be homosexual or heterosexual. Sexuality isn't an identity and I don't think it should be, God creates people.

    But whats your thoughts on where/when/how it originates? Its found in the animal kingdom as well of course.


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    #95
    Rasheed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,117 ✭✭✭Rasheed


    Mintoz wrote: »
    Yes, I'm serious. Christians are at war, it may be comforting to tell ourselves we're not, but that's just denial. Muslims will be in control of Europe in another 30 years or so. The demographics are worrying.

    God has promised that our enemies will not prevail over us, if we keep his commandments. Well, most of Europe and America don't, not as long as they worship other Gods, and continue to abort, contracept and serve Mammon. He's giving Muslims Europe because they deserve it.

    Sounds extremist doesn't it? God wants saints, heroes, not watered down, weak, 'nice people'. He wants people who have passion for the truth, for him.

    Ah, I don't know are messing or what but to say that the muslims are going to take over?? Ha! Tis a new one on me! Fair play to you though, you keep populating the place with Christians and we might be alright!


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    #96
    Andrewf20
    Registered Users Posts: 3,187 ✭✭✭Andrewf20


    Mintoz wrote: »
    It's a result of the fall. God never 'made' anyone gay. Lots of people are disordered in different ways, sight disorders, walking disorders, reading disorders, speech disorders, the list goes on. It's only a big deal in this time, because it's about sex. Sorry, but it is. People justify everything these days in the name of sex, abortion, divorce.. Bill Clinton showed that. Hence homosexuality being acceptable after the sexual revolution. That's not a co-incedence.

    They are asked to be chaste and bear their crosses with Christ, as everyone else is.

    But I dont see a clear victim here, unlike with other sins such as murder, theft and so on?

    Where do you think homosexuality originates?


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    #97
    Mintoz
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 50 ✭✭Mintoz


    Doctor Jimbob wrote: »
    And THAT, folks, is why people dislike religion.

    You might have no passion for the truth, but others do. Let's all become weak, submissive sissys, Lets all 'go relative', and say every religion is the same.


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    #98
    Doctor Jimbob
    Registered Users Posts: 7,631 ✭✭✭Doctor Jimbob


    Mintoz wrote: »
    You might have no passion for the truth, but others do. Let's all become weak, submissive sissys, Lets all 'go relative', and say every religion is the same.

    I have no passion, or respect for that matter for people who justify war and hatred against others based on the fact they worship a different supernatural being, no.


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    #99
    Mintoz
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 50 ✭✭Mintoz


    Andrewf20 wrote: »
    But I dont see a clear victim here, unlike with other sins such as murder, theft and so on?

    Where do you think homosexuality originates?

    If one disobeys Gods law, then they will be the victim. The average life of a gay male in America is 40. Would aloving God lead them into a lifestyle which could kill them? If they separate themselves from Gods law, which is clearly understood, then they themselves are the victims.

    Well, it originates from the desire for sex, with the opposite sex, so they can procreate. It's a disorder like any other, but again, it's about sex, the modern days religion. So it's justified, even if God disproves.


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    #100
    Doctor Jimbob
    Registered Users Posts: 7,631 ✭✭✭Doctor Jimbob


    Mintoz wrote: »
    If one disobeys Gods law, then they will be the victim. The average life of a gay male in America is 40. Would aloving God lead them into a lifestyle which could kill them? If they separate themselves from Gods law, which is clearly understood, then they themselves are the victims.

    Well, it originates from the desire for sex, with the opposite sex, so they can procreate. It's a disorder like any other, but again, it's about sex, the modern days religion. So it's justified, even if God disproves.

    Source?

    In regards to your second paragraph, sex or mass? Hmmm. It's a real toughie, but I know which I'd go for.


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    #101
    Mintoz
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 50 ✭✭Mintoz


    Doctor Jimbob wrote: »
    I have no passion, or respect for that matter for people who justify war and hatred against others based on the fact they worship a different supernatural being, no.

    I wasn't asking you to have passion for others, but the truth. I wouldn't kill anyone from another religion either, or wage a war you've misunderstood. I am supposed to love my enemies, and I do. If I met a Muslim, I'd invite him in for tea, and maybe, a few hobnobs.

    But to be honest, they're heretics. Lets not play pretend. They deny Christ's divinity, and that he will return at the end of time to destroy Chrstians.

    The bible seems to separate people into two different groups: Those who love the truth, and those who don't.


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    #102
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    Andrewf20 wrote: »
    But whats your thoughts on where/when/how it originates? Its found in the animal kingdom as well of course.

    There are plenty of things found in the animal kingdom. That doesn't mean that it is biologically determined to happen. From some research that was documented in the National Geographic magazine on the topic a few years ago.
    "So many papers look at these sorts of behaviors and immediately consider them from a human perspective. This paper has done a remarkable job of not sexing up the homosexuality and [instead] just asking why beetles do this."
    Some researchers suggest that male animals need to practice breeding as much as they can before meeting females.

    Others argue that males need to get rid of old, less effective sperm before they encounter females.
    http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/11/081104-homosexual-beetles.html

    There's plenty of research you can look up on this topic. You can find out for yourself why it occurs in the animal kingdom. There are many things that happen in the animal kingdom that we wouldn't want to emulate as humans. I'm sure you're aware of that already.

    Again, I'm more interested in the root issue in the OP than I am in meaningless argument.


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    #103
    Corkfeen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,940 ✭✭✭Corkfeen


    Mintoz wrote: »
    Andrewf20 wrote: »
    But I dont see a clear victim here, unlike with other sins such as murder, theft and so on?

    Where do you think homosexuality originates?

    If one disobeys Gods law, then they will be the victim. The average life of a gay male in America is 40. Would aloving God lead them into a lifestyle which could kill them? If they separate themselves from Gods law, which is clearly understood, then they themselves are the victims.

    Well, it originates from the desire for sex, with the opposite sex, so they can procreate. It's a disorder like any other, but again, it's about sex, the modern days religion. So it's justified, even if God disproves.
    The average lifespan of a gay American is not 40.


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    #104
    Doctor Jimbob
    Registered Users Posts: 7,631 ✭✭✭Doctor Jimbob


    Mintoz wrote: »
    I wasn't asking you to have passion for others, but the truth. I wouldn't kill anyone from another religion either, or wage a war you've misunderstood. I am supposed to love my enemies, and I do. If I met a Muslim, I'd invite him in for tea, and maybe, a few hobnobs.

    But to be honest, they're heretics. Lets not play pretend. They deny Christ's divinity, and that he will return at the end of time to destroy Chrstians.

    The bible seems to separate people into two different groups: Those who love the truth, and those who don't.

    But what makes your truth the correct truth? As opposed to the truth of others? And to be fair, you did say 'Christians are at war' so I don't really see how I misunderstood?

    Live and let live, and all that.


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    #105
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    How is this random argument going to help the OP answer the question?


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    #106
    Mintoz
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 50 ✭✭Mintoz


    Corkfeen wrote: »
    That average lifespan of a gay American is not 40.

    I got that figure from a leading philosopher Dr.William Lane Craig, who deabtes on the homosexuality Christianity issue. This paper shows how the life span can be significantly reduced:

    http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/homosexuality/ho0075.html


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    #107
    georgieporgy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,927 ✭✭✭georgieporgy


    Andrewf20 wrote: »
    But why would God create some people as homosexual who are to forever feel guilty about acting out their natural instincts? Why are they denyed the possibiliy of looking forward to a proper heterosexiual relationship in marriage?
    Did God create alcoholics, thieves, rapists, gluttons,paedophiles, philanderers, adulterers?

    There are plenty of such folks around. All coping with a 'disorder'. The old word for this was 'vice', and people considered it 'bad'.


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    #108
    Mintoz
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 50 ✭✭Mintoz


    Doctor Jimbob wrote: »
    But what makes your truth the correct truth? As opposed to the truth of others? And to be fair, you did say 'Christians are at war' so I don't really see how I misunderstood?

    Live and let live, and all that.

    I don't know, and nobody does if we have the correct truth, it's impossible to know right now. The key is whether one loves the truth, and will not sacrifice it for anything: even pretend peace. Christ wants soldiers, not sissy, pluralistic wimps.

    By being at war, I mean, spiritual war.


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    #109
    Doctor Jimbob
    Registered Users Posts: 7,631 ✭✭✭Doctor Jimbob


    Mintoz wrote: »
    I got that figure from a leading philosopher Dr.William Lane Craig, who deabtes on the homosexuality Christianity issue. This paper shows how the life span can be significantly reduced:

    http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/homosexuality/ho0075.html

    Have you ever heard of the term 'biased source'?
    Of course an education website for a group that is anti gay is going to spead anti gay lies. How is that not blindingly obvious to you?
    If someone puts up a counter argument stating that gay men live to an age of 136, taken from a website called 'gayz4truth.com', are you going to take it at all seriously?


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    #110
    Andrewf20
    Registered Users Posts: 3,187 ✭✭✭Andrewf20


    Mintoz wrote: »
    If one disobeys Gods law, then they will be the victim. The average life of a gay male in America is 40. Would aloving God lead them into a lifestyle which could kill them? If they separate themselves from Gods law, which is clearly understood, then they themselves are the victims.

    Well, it originates from the desire for sex, with the opposite sex, so they can procreate. It's a disorder like any other, but again, it's about sex, the modern days religion. So it's justified, even if God disproves.

    Perhaps discrimination leading to depression and suicide drastically reduces the average lifespan of homosexuals. If discimination was drastically reduced it would surely lead to an increase in average lifespans?

    But why such vitriol? Why is smoking not viewed in the same light for example. Why is smoking not a sin, seeing as it curtails life?


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    #111
    Extinction
    Closed Accounts Posts: 745 ✭✭✭Extinction


    Mintoz wrote: »
    I got that figure from a leading philosopher Dr.William Lane Craig, who deabtes on the homosexuality Christianity issue. This paper shows how the life span can be significantly reduced:

    http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/homosexuality/ho0075.html

    Maybe you shouldn't believe catholic websites so easily and do a bit more independent research.


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    #112
    Mintoz
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 50 ✭✭Mintoz


    Doctor Jimbob wrote: »
    I have no passion, or respect for that matter for people who justify war and hatred against others based on the fact they worship a different supernatural being, no.

    Don't slander, I don't hate others.

    There is only one God, but many conceptions. It's just the way it is.


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    #113
    Mintoz
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 50 ✭✭Mintoz


    Extinction wrote: »
    Maybe you shouldn't believe catholic websites so easily and do a bit more independent research.

    William Craig is a respected philosopher, there's no way he'd of made it up. He said in America it is, but maybe there was a specific place he was talking about.

    I was being lazy, and should have researched, I know.


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    #114
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    Does anyone want to help the OP yet?


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    #115
    Andrewf20
    Registered Users Posts: 3,187 ✭✭✭Andrewf20


    philologos wrote: »
    How is this random argument going to help the OP answer the question?

    I think it may be of interest to the OP to see how conversations related to this topic can unfold among people with different viewpoints but agreed, probably best to not get too bogged down on 1 branch of the subject.


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    #116
    Mintoz
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 50 ✭✭Mintoz


    philologos wrote: »
    Does anyone want to help the OP yet?

    Oh yes, that. Well, love gay people, treat them with respect and be sensitive to their situation, I couldn't even imagine the cross they have to carry, even if they do try to remain single. Pray for them, understand them, you know, Christ like.

    Let God do the rest.


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    #117
    Doctor Jimbob
    Registered Users Posts: 7,631 ✭✭✭Doctor Jimbob


    Mintoz wrote: »
    You're being biased. He uses logic, so there's not much chance he is a nutjob.

    You used a website called catholic education to back up your incorrect statement about gay males, and now you're calling me biased.


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    #118
    Andrewf20
    Registered Users Posts: 3,187 ✭✭✭Andrewf20


    georgieporgy wrote: »
    Did God create alcoholics, thieves, rapists, gluttons,paedophiles, philanderers, adulterers?

    There are plenty of such folks around. All coping with a 'disorder'. The old word for this was 'vice', and people considered it 'bad'.

    Im not so sure sexual orientation is a choice in the same way are these things are that you mention. Gay sexual acts between 2 consenting adults in their privacy shouldnt impinge on others unlike rapists, thieves, paedophiles, adulterers and so on.

    Im happy to leave the discussion at that.


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    #119
    Alactric
    Registered Users Posts: 192 ✭✭Alactric


    Mintoz wrote: »
    You're being biased. He uses logic, so there's not much chance he is a nutjob.

    Lo-Logic? "Gay people on average live to 40" ...:D


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    #120
    Extinction
    Closed Accounts Posts: 745 ✭✭✭Extinction


    Mintoz wrote: »
    William Craig is a respected philosopher, there's no way he'd of made it up. He said in America it is, but maybe there was a specific place he was talking about.

    I was being lazy, and should have researched, I know.

    Who is he respected by? Christians by any chance? Of course he didn't make it up, why would a biased christian make anything up to suit their own agenda? The information in the following christian website couldn't possible be made up to either http://christwire.org/2012/01/nasa-discovers-god-declares-atheists-idiots/ Or could it?


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    #121
    Doctor Jimbob
    Registered Users Posts: 7,631 ✭✭✭Doctor Jimbob


    As for helping the OP, well, OP you can't really be part of the Catholic religion while refusing some of it's teachings. As much as I disagree with a lot of the teachings myself, people are entitled to their beliefs, once they aren't using them against others.

    I'd suggest researching other branches of christianity, to see which one fits more closely to your own personal belief system. On the other hand, if feeling alone is your main concern, there are groups you could be a part of that aren't religious.


This discussion has been closed.
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