Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread II

Fireball07

Tox56 wrote: »

I had the first season written off when you realise how much conditioning he needed, he wouldn't be the first tighthead to arrive at Leinster needing to improve his fitness.

I see this as his first full season and I think he has been decent enough. I don't know if he's good enough to improve to the level of Ross, but I haven't been overly disappointed in his progress. From what I've seen not all Leinster fans think the same though.

I get what you mean. I don't think he's been bad or anything...but when you play for the European champions, you need to stand out if you want to make it. I've been hugely impressed by Moore, and we've all heard about Furlong mangling every scrum in the AIL. Hagan on the other hand, has merely been decent.

Ross will be in and around the first team for at least another year. Bent looks like he could challenge Ross, and certainly seems ahead of Hagan. If Munster don't get to keep Botha, it could be a great opportunity for Hagan... what is his contract status actually??

(As a Munster fan, I'd rather we got Moore but I'd say he fancies his chances at Leinster...while Hagan would likely be more open to a move).

Tox56

jm08 wrote: »

OK then - Leinster had the best half of a team in the history of the Heineken Cup!

Selective quoting? From you? :eek:

jm08

Tox56 wrote: »

Selective quoting? From you? :eek:

OK, I'll reply to the last bit which was:

In any case, O'Brien and Toner have 3 H Cup winners medals too. And that's not including Rob Kearney, Luke Fitzgerald and a few more who were part of the team for those 3 years but injured for one of the wins.

So squad/club are one and the same as a team - which brings me back to Toulouse whose team/squad/club won 4 Heineken Cups and won more games in the history of the competition than anyone else.

Keith Earls has a H Cup medal by your criteria.

molloyjh

irishbucsfan

How many Toulouse players won 4 H Cups?

Hagz

It's not that hard to comprehend. This Leinster squad is known as the greatest squad ever. Not club, not team, but squad. They won two Heineken Cups back to back, a feat only replicated by Leicester, and they did it in a completely dominating fashion. They did it coming out of two monstrous pools, and they did it playing an incredible brand of rugby. They staged the greatest comeback in the history of Heineken Cup finals, and they put down the greatest winning margin of any team in a final. It's not about how many of the current players have HC medals, it's about how this squad has been consistently the best squad over the last two seasons.

Whether that grates you or not is irrelevant, it is simply something that has been acknowledged by pundits and critics of the game.

Hagz

molloyjh wrote: »

Ha! That picture is perfect. You couldn't find a better picture.

Tox56

jm08 wrote: »

OK, I'll reply to the last bit which was:



So squad/club are one and the same as a team - which brings me back to Toulouse whose team/squad/club won 4 Heineken Cups and won more games in the history of the competition than anyone else.

Keith Earls has a H Cup medal by your criteria.

What?? There's a massive jump in logic here.

Can you really not see how, in this context, a "squad" or "team" is different to a club??

.ak

jm08 wrote: »

Toner, O'Brien, S Keogh & Dempsey unused subs against Leicester.
Kearney missed the Northampton came through injury.
Luke Fitz - injured for last year against Ulster.

It's not HEC finalists we're talking about here. They're all apart of the teams that won the h-cup campaigns of 08/09, 10/11, and 11/12.

Fireball07

Deleted User wrote: »

Hammer Time!

thomond2006

Deleted User wrote: »

molloyjh

Hagz wrote: »

Ha! That picture is perfect. You couldn't find a better picture.

I actually couldn't believe it when I saw it tbh.

Fireball said what we were all thinking though - sorry emmet, but STOP will never get any other response....

jacothelad

ssaye wrote: »

It could be a bargaining move, it may be not. Leinster have Bent, Hagan and Moore and Munster will only have Archer from June etc so a move for Ross would be strong for Munster and Irish Rugby. I want him to stay but he COULD be told we are only giving you a new contract with Munster take it or leave it. Leinster could not afford him so it woud be a central contract IMO.

TH get around 300k+ per year apx.

Its plausible he will be a Munster player next season.

Botha will get a years extension. End of story re. Ross.

By the way, does anyone know who Europe's greatest club side is? Or even which half team was best?:D:D:D

Quint2010

jacothelad wrote: »

By the way, does anyone know who Europe's greatest club side is? Or even which half team was best?:D:D:D

For me it's got to be......























Real Madrid.

TopOfTheRight

Anyone know if the lads are training in ucd tomorrow??

leftleg

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/rumours-of-ross-departure-from-leinster-wide-of-mark-3316422.html

More of the usual..

"The recruitment of Michael Bent in controversial circumstances has heightened the competition for Ross' position and Ireland coach Declan Kidney was critical of the Corkman's display in the recent defeat to South Africa."

desertcircus

Has a single one of these barbed references to Ross' form actually detailed what he failed to do, bar hold up a scrum against England on one arm?

bamboozle

leftleg wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/rumours-of-ross-departure-from-leinster-wide-of-mark-3316422.html

More of the usual..

"The recruitment of Michael Bent in controversial circumstances has heightened the competition for Ross' position and Ireland coach Declan Kidney was critical of the Corkman's display in the recent defeat to South Africa."

i'm going to stop even looking at the indo online. that new guy is dragging rugby journalism into the gutter.

irishbucsfan

bamboozle wrote: »

i'm going to stop even looking at the indo online. that new guy is dragging rugby journalism into the gutter.

This article was by Kelly. It's very strange behaviour in general by all involved.

jamiedav2011

It's disgusting behaviour to be honest.

Would love to know whether this is coming from Kidney, because if it is, it's a fairly damning indication of his 'man management'.

Actually, Ross played well against Saf, but more than that, he's saved Ireland's bacon in the past few years.

Idiotic.

Higher

I'll repeat:

Coincidence?

It just goes to show how partisan our rugby journalists really are.

CIARAN_BOYLE

desertcircus wrote: »

Has a single one of these barbed references to Ross' form actually detailed what he failed to do.

He was ok against South Africa but should have come off 10 minutes earlier. Once VDM came on he got beaten up a little but thats understandable VDM is a quality prop and Ross was tired. Thats a classic situation where the bench needs to used and Kidney failed to do so.

Kidney's fault not Ross's

totallegend

jamiedav2011 wrote: »

It's disgusting behaviour to be honest.

Would love to know whether this is coming from Kidney, because if it is, it's a fairly damning indication of his 'man management'.

Actually, Ross played well against Saf, but more than that, he's saved Ireland's bacon in the past few years.

Idiotic.

There are two aspects of this that really get my goat:

1. If Kidney had an issue with Ross, he should have dealt with it privately OR come out and been open with it. This business of leaking info to journalists is atrocious management.

2. None of these journalists have said "well hang on, Ross played ok against SA". The post-match reviews were all reasonably positive about Ross, it was only a few days afterwards that we found out that Ross was.actually terrible.

The whole thing stinks and it's a terrible way to treat one of our key players.

dub_skav

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

He was ok against South Africa but should have come off 10 minutes earlier. Once VDM came on he got beaten up a little but thats understandable VDM is a quality prop and Ross was tired. Thats a classic situation where the bench needs to used and Kidney failed to do so.

Kidney's fault not Ross's

Exactly this, Ross is not well known for being an 80 minute prop. In fact in the modern game nobody really should be.
Against sa of all teams kidney left him on far too long.

With the ability to bring props back on if required kidney should change props much earlier.

Management mistake, not the player's fault

ssaye

jacothelad wrote: »

Botha will get a years extension. End of story re. Ross.

By the way, does anyone know who Europe's greatest club side is? Or even which half team was best?:D:D:D

How are you 100%. Possibly but not End of until it happens. Sure without rumours and gossip we may as well stop all threads. Thats what makes boards great.

leftleg

dub_skav wrote: »

Exactly this, Ross is not well known for being an 80 minute prop.

Nearly every tight head prop gets subbed during a game, that scrum half and 7 are the most tiring positions physically on the field.

dub_skav

leftleg wrote: »

Nearly every tight head prop gets subbed during a game, that scrum half and 7 are the most tiring positions physically on the field.

Edit because I was being childish.

So we're agreed, Kidney doesn't know how to use his bench

justsomebloke

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

He was ok against South Africa but should have come off 10 minutes earlier. Once VDM came on he got beaten up a little but thats understandable VDM is a quality prop and Ross was tired. Thats a classic situation where the bench needs to used and Kidney failed to do so.

Kidney's fault not Ross's

Truthfully it was neither Ross' or Kidney's fault. The reason it happened is the same reason I think Ross is holding out to get a massive contract and that is he is the only international calibre TH in Ireland.

The fact that we had to jettison someone nobody had seen play straight onto the bench for the Autumn internationals speaks volumes. Yes in the end Bent did a good job but we haven't seen nearly enough of him to say how consistent he will be and to see how much of a long term prospect he is.

Truthfully I think people are getting ahead of themselves saying Leinster have 5 good THs. We have 1 proven TH, 1 TH that showed a lot of potential in the brief time we have seen him, 1 TH who's made dissapointing progress and 2 that MAY have the potential to make it.

Ross isn't going anywhere unless he is the one looking to move and he would have the IRFU over a barrel if it wasn't for the tax incentive and that might not be a big issue due to the limited number of years he has played here

CIARAN_BOYLE

justsomebloke wrote: »

Truthfully it was neither Ross' or Kidney's fault. The reason it happened is the same reason I think Ross is holding out to get a massive contract and that is he is the only international calibre TH in Ireland.

Here I don't think it can be said that Ross is holding out for a massive contract.

First contact between himself and the union over contract issues was only a couple of days ago