Sick of Unemployed People Getting abuse on

Sin City

Gurgle wrote: »

Ah, so you do class yourself as a freeloader. I think this is the first time you've admitted that you personally are on the dole as a lifestyle choice. You should be ashamed of grouping yourself with genuine cases of hardship.

For that small segment of the live register (people who have no interest in ever doing anything for themselves), I'd like to see work schemes brought in. I bet you could learn how dig drains and repaint playgrounds pretty quick if the alternative was losing the 'paycheck'.:P

You are joking right, I used the term as sarcasim. I have a degree and would love to work but cant. I would love for the state to send me back to Uni to retrain, but I know thats not going to happen.

You are really scrapping the bottom of teh argumentitive barrell if thats the best retort you can use

Dr Galen

So let me get this right Sin City....you are advocating that we don't attempt to re-train or re-skill the thousands of now unemployed people, many of whom are unemployed because of the construction boom crash?

Sin City

Dr Galen wrote: »

So let me get this right Sin City....you are advocating that we don't attempt to re-train or re-skill the thousands of now unemployed people, many of whom are unemployed because of the construction boom crash?

What I am saying is , is it financialy viable at the moment? Considering only a minority would actually get jobs in the state

Gurgle

This:

Sin City wrote: »

What I am saying is , is it financialy viable at the moment?

is a strawman excuse. There are programs for graduates to re-train into different fields. A lawyer friend has recently completed a H.Dip in IT, which was fully funded.

This:

Considering only a minority would actually get jobs in the state

is unqualified bullshìt.

Are you seriously claiming that (excluding those dependent on the construction industry) there is not a much higher employment rate among 3rd level graduates?

Dr Galen

It's not financially viable to continue to pay people to not do anything though.

At least with retraining etc people stand a much better chance of securing work, getting paid and thus paying taxes.

Sin City

Dr Galen wrote: »

It's not financially viable to continue to pay people to not do anything though.

At least with retraining etc people stand a much better chance of securing work, getting paid and thus paying taxes.

Yes, but only if there will be jobs there when they get out, otherwise they are just paying for education that might not be used, at least in this sate.


The only way out of this mess is to somehow get more jobs into the country. Untill that happens we are going to keep having these circular arguments

christmas2012

Gurgle wrote: »

Ah, so you do class yourself as a freeloader. I think this is the first time you've admitted that you personally are on the dole as a lifestyle choice. You should be ashamed of grouping yourself with genuine cases of hardship.

For that small segment of the live register (people who have no interest in ever doing anything for themselves), I'd like to see work schemes brought in. I bet you could learn how dig drains and repaint playgrounds pretty quick if the alternative was losing the 'paycheck'.:P

schemes like fas and job bridge create unemployment blackspots in the community they proport to help,it robs what could have been a paid job advertised,for example if a company turns around and signs up to free labour instead of advertising for paid workers what does that make it?

There should be a better jobs initiative out there,there should be actual job creation..

Sin City

Gurgle wrote: »

This:
is a strawman excuse. There are programs for graduates to re-train into different fields. A lawyer friend has recently completed a H.Dip in IT, which was fully funded.

I think you need to re research this proposal my friend. No education in the world will get you a job, if there are no jobs availible

Gurgle wrote: »

This:

is unqualified bullshìt.

Are you seriously claiming that (excluding those dependent on the construction industry) there is not a much higher employment rate among 3rd level graduates?

Do you , a mod on the Irish economy forum, not understand that there are not enough jobs in the country for everyone? Seriously???????

Dr Galen

But there are jobs out there, right now. There are companies on record, nearly everyday saying that they can't get people with the skills they need.

The key to any re-training is that you train people for things that would be useful. So no re-training in Neo-Lithic Palaeontology and lots of training in GUI Design, Languages, and so on.

Sin City

Dr Galen wrote: »

But there are jobs out there, right now. There are companies on record, nearly everyday saying that they can't get people with the skills they need.

The key to any re-training is that you train people for things that would be useful. So no re-training in Neo-Lithic Palaeontology and lots of training in GUI Design, Languages, and so on.

Yes, bout how much work is out there ?

What I am saying is , you will only get a small minority of those who retarin back into the workforce, most will end up remaining on the dole, due to the lack of jobs availible.

Now to those companies that want to take people on , shouldnt they hire someone and with the states help retrain them to work in their field, they could even give work expeirence.

Sin City

Have I just solved the unemploment crisies?

All the companies looking for employess to re train should do down to their local welfare offices and hire the train everyone there. Then everyone will have jobs and not be on the dole

See problem solved..............or is it

ntlbell

Sin City wrote: »

I think you need to re research this proposal my friend. No education in the world will get you a job, if there are no jobs availible




Do you , a mod on the Irish economy forum, not understand that there are not enough jobs in the country for everyone? Seriously???????

christ all mighty.

how many times have you been told on this thread all ready?

There is 1k jobs been created a week at the moment, granted a lot of these are in IT sector's/customer service/bi-linugal etc.

we're not suggesting that you throw 400k into a language course so that 400k can then go apply for the exact same jobs, now you have been posting here for days posting rubbish with absoloutley no concept of how an economy works.

what are you suggesting we do? nothing? keep borrowing money we don't have to pay people to do nothing? what is your suggested plan for recovery?

can you please put a few coherent senteces togethet explaning your exact stance or stop as it's gone beyond rediclous at this point.

the reocevery going to be a long drawn out affair. just over 25% of our resources are going out in SW payments, this is not sustainable. this FACT has been posted by many posters on so many occasions do you understand what that means?

if for example there's 30k current jobs lets say we can get 20k filled by upskilling. your reduce the burdan on the SW system by 20k people. you 20k people back spending in the economy. you incrase the chances of people not being let go or maybe a temp staff getting hired in a shop adding security which means getting those people out spending and so on and so forth.

It doesn't happen over night it takes time and a bit of thought. now with all the money you're saving on SW from the ones you got off you could for example put the money into more resources for training and job creation and blah blah

you don;t just sit around like a spoilt child screaming at anyone who will listen there's no jobs. there is bloody jobs now go out and get into a posittion to take one before someone else does.

Gurgle

christmas2012 wrote: »

schemes like fas and job bridge create unemployment blackspots in the community they proport to help,it robs what could have been a paid job advertised,for example if a company turns around and signs up to free labour instead of advertising for paid workers what does that make it?

I agree, jobsbridge was an excellent initiative utterly mis-handled.

(I'm not going to comment on FÀS again, that would be necropheliac equestrian flagellation)

Sin City wrote:

No education in the world will get you a job, if there are no jobs availible

We had 2 open job reqs this time last year, couldn't fill them. We eventually got a guy to move from eastern europe, the other req expired unfilled. The office in the UK is expanding rapidly.

Sin City wrote:

Do you , a mod on the Irish economy forum, not understand that there are not enough jobs in the country for everyone? Seriously???????

I'm not a mod on the Irish economy forum, I'm just a regular poster.

southsiderosie

MOD NOTE:

Folks, this is getting a little heated. There are a lot of interesting and difficult questions here, but I think we can have a rational debate about this without getting overly personal.

daltonmd

Sin City wrote: »

You cant have a grant and your weekly dole so your pretty screwed, (surely you should have researched this first)

From studentfinance.ie


"For the unemployed, remember that you can attend part-time day/evening courses of education or training, and still retain your Jobseekers Allowance or Jobseekers Benefit. To qualify you must continue to satisfy the conditions of being available for and genuinely seeking employment on an ongoing basis"

Yes you can, if you do your research.

srsly78

That isn't what it says. Grant would be taken into account for means testing.

daltonmd

srsly78 wrote: »

That isn't what it says. Grant would be taken into account for means testing.

Sorry, the grant is to pay for the education, the back to work is fully funded (therefore no grant needed) and Jobseekers is still paid.

Sin City

daltonmd wrote: »

Sin City wrote: »

You cant have a grant and your weekly dole so your pretty screwed, (surely you should have researched this first)

From studentfinance.ie


"For the unemployed, remember that you can attend part-time day/evening courses of education or training, and still retain your Jobseekers Allowance or Jobseekers Benefit. To qualify you must continue to satisfy the conditions of being available for and genuinely seeking employment on an ongoing basis"



Yes you can, if you do your research.

ok full time university undergrad degree courses. you would get A back to education.to.pay.for.your.living expences.or.B a maintenance grant.to cover course fees and books. you no longer get both and you wont survive without either so yes , recheck your.research

Peanut

Sin City wrote: »

Yes, but only if there will be jobs there when they get out, otherwise they are just paying for education that might not be used, at least in this sate.

The only way out of this mess is to somehow get more jobs into the country. Untill that happens we are going to keep having these circular arguments

With all due respect SinCity, this is a serious problem within the broader Irish psyche.

Thinking predominately of quick fixes and the short game, helplessly waiting for a bailout from someone or somewhere else.

Do you think it's just slightly possible that a newly highly educated workforce may actually risk creating jobs themselves instead of waiting for the magic train to arrive from overseas to carry everyone away with highly paid salaries?

Yes, we are a small country, and no, we don't get all the economies of scale of larger nations, but what is the alternative? Continue to rely on someone else to do the heavy lifting for us while we twiddle our thumbs?

And the point about marketing yourself internationally made earlier - without any sarcasm; it astonishingly appears to be a little known secret, but, you don't necessarily have to leave the country to market to the world.

daltonmd

Sin City wrote: »

ok full time university undergrad degree courses. you would get A back to education.to.pay.for.your.living expences.or.B a maintenance grant.to cover course fees and books. you no longer get both and you wont survive without either so yes , recheck your.research

Oh please, excuses excuses. You said you couldn't get your dole and re-educate yourself, you clearly can, but you clearly won't.

There's only so much the government can do. If you won't help yourself and avail of what you can then no-one and no initiave can help you.

user.name

You will always have people who will abuse the system and are too lazy to work, but they are only a minority. Plenty of people on the welfare are actually looking for work.

Sin City

daltonmd wrote: »

Oh please, excuses excuses. You said you couldn't get your dole and re-educate yourself, you clearly can, but you clearly won't.

There's only so much the government can do. If you won't help yourself and avail of what you can then no-one and no initiave can help you.

Hang on I got my degree in the last couple of years. So If I go and retrain in a new field , I wont get a grant, and my living expenses , eg the back to education allowence. Therefore I will not be able to pay the college fees, books and still survive.

Iv been in the system recently enough and I have firends going through it at the moment and I can garunte you of what you actually get and dont get, so please get off your high horse and know what you are actually entitled too

daltonmd

Sin City wrote: »

Hang on I got my degree in the last couple of years. So If I go and retrain in a new field , I wont get a grant, and my living expenses , eg the back to education allowence. Therefore I will not be able to pay the college fees, books and still survive.

Iv been in the system recently enough and I have firends going through it at the moment and I can garunte you of what you actually get and dont get, so please get off your high horse and know what you are actually entitled too

You are wrong.


"If you take up a Springboard course, you can keep your existing social welfare payment if you continue to fulfil the conditions for the payment.
You do not have to pay any course fees or charges while you are unemployed. If you take up a job while on a course, Springboard will also fund the fees for the full academic year. If your course extends into another academic year(s) the amount of fees payable will be a matter for your college to decide.
As Springboard courses are all part-time, you are not eligible for a student grant or the Back to Education Allowance."


Wrong.

Sin City

daltonmd wrote: »

Sin City wrote: »

Hang on I got my degree in the last couple of years. So If I go and retrain in a new field , I wont get a grant, and my living expenses , eg the back to education allowence. Therefore I will not be able to pay the college fees, books and still survive.

Iv been in the system recently enough and I have firends going through it at the moment and I can garunte you of what you actually get and dont get, so please get off your high horse and know what you are actually entitled too

You are wrong.


"If you take up a Springboard course, you can keep your existing social welfare payment if you continue to fulfil the conditions for the payment.
You do not have to pay any course fees or charges while you are unemployed. If you take up a job while on a course, Springboard will also fund the fees for the full academic year. If your course extends into another academic year(s) the amount of fees payable will be a matter for your college to decide.
As Springboard courses are all part-time, you are not eligible for a student grant or the Back to Education Allowance."


Wrong.

have you seen the range.of.la cour


and can't you still claim your full dole while on a part time.course ?

daltonmd

Sin City wrote: »

have you seen the range.of.la cour


and can't you still claim your full dole while on a part time.course ?

I've changed this post - What do you mean?

IRISHREDSTAR

As pointed out by dcris
“2007
Unemployment 4 % (157k)
Social Welfare Expenditure 15 Billion

2011
Unemployment 15% (440k)
Social Welfare Expenditure 20 Billion” in fact it’s more but 20 billion would pay over 2.25 million people 188 a week and don’t forget under25’s only get 100

Non thick pigs by sw GDP
Denmark 29.2
Sweden 28.9
France 28.5
Germany 27.4
Belgium 27.2

Or we could just pay all adults 188 each week even if they work and get the unemployment industry- the dept of social welfare to f**k off with all their tests, forms, visits and hulla hoops and get real jobs themselves. We now have the tech to check residency people not working would just sign in with voice reg by phone to a computer.

This would reward people for working even if just for a few hours,( as no loss of payment)
If the European and world economies began to a huge tiger style rally tomorrow it would have very little difference on the Irish economy. Yet this seems to be the plan the only plan our great leaders have, to hope things pick up elsewhere so we might get some investment and our young people would have place to emigrate to. We need to solve our own problems no Chinese, US, euro help is coming. (If we leave out the banker’s and public spending) We all have idea’s to create jobs.
Yet the Government of Ireland has done sod all
Why do workers in Ireland work 20% more hours than the Germans, why so much overtime in Ireland apart from reducing the working week and adding some more holiday’s (which would end unemployment overnight) a special tax on overtime could greatly reduce unemployment.
And this would make the workforce more productive overnight we get a lot more work from two people working 6 hours each than one working 12 hours. And of course overall we could then pay less tax.

Pay all adults 188 (taxable) into a pps number bank acc per week working or not

Reduce working hours (at least overtime) by tax

squod

Social welfare still @ 17% of GDP. Lower than most or all of Europe. We're pissing way more money away in other areas.

Slightly O/T

Ireland third most popular tax haven for FTSE100 companies

Isn't the idea of being a tax haven meant to benefit us? Am I missing something?

*Become popular tax haven
*?
*Profit.

dchris

daltonmd wrote: »

You are wrong.


"If you take up a Springboard course, you can keep your existing social welfare payment if you continue to fulfil the conditions for the payment.
You do not have to pay any course fees or charges while you are unemployed. If you take up a job while on a course, Springboard will also fund the fees for the full academic year. If your course extends into another academic year(s) the amount of fees payable will be a matter for your college to decide.
As Springboard courses are all part-time, you are not eligible for a student grant or the Back to Education Allowance."


Wrong.

Do you know what a Springboard course is? You dont get a qualification at the end of one. It is meant for people who have high level of experience to diversify. It is a great initiative. Only problem is no one avails of the student status, so gets no education grant etc. So need to sustain their current outgoings whilst having the added expense of attending a course. A friend of mine did one, had to leave it half way through as they live 20 miles from course. had to commute, had a lot of expenses and in the end could not afford to do it.

daltonmd

dchris wrote: »

Do you know what a Springboard course is? You dont get a qualification at the end of one. It is meant for people who have high level of experience to diversify. It is a great initiative. Only problem is no one avails of the student status, so gets no education grant etc. So need to sustain their current outgoings whilst having the added expense of attending a course. A friend of mine did one, had to leave it half way through as they live 20 miles from course. had to commute, had a lot of expenses and in the end could not afford to do it.

Springboard Initiative

The Springboard initiative in higher education offers free, part-time courses at certificate, degree and masters level, leading to qualifications that are in demand among employers. The majority of courses are one-year or less in duration, and Springboard is open to jobseekers who have a previous history of employment and believe that a focused, high-quality qualification is the key to getting back to work.
Springboard, is managed by the Higher Education Authority, and allows those who undertake the courses to retain their benefits and if they find a job, they will still be permitted and encouraged to finish their course.


I can't understand the grant thing - it's free and you retain your benefits?


This is an example of what is available for unemployed people.

dchris

daltonmd wrote: »

Springboard Initiative

The Springboard initiative in higher education offers free, part-time courses at certificate, degree and masters level, leading to qualifications that are in demand among employers. The majority of courses are one-year or less in duration, and Springboard is open to jobseekers who have a previous history of employment and believe that a focused, high-quality qualification is the key to getting back to work.
Springboard, is managed by the Higher Education Authority, and allows those who undertake the courses to retain their benefits and if they find a job, they will still be permitted and encouraged to finish their course.


I can't understand the grant thing - it's free and you retain your benefits?


This is an example of what is available for unemployed people.

Yes it is what is available for people at those levels, but the qualification obtained is not at those levels. it is cleverly worded. You don't get a masters by going in to do a course at masters level etc. It is just aimed at people at that level. the qualification, as far as i can gather, is not recognisable. ( I may be wrong, and will admit that)

The springboard courses are to get people to retrain whilst also be looking for work. You are expected to keep looking for work whilst doing the courses and drop out if you find a job. which undermines the whole ethos of learning