Irish Prison Service Jobs - PASO 3

Delancey

Rawhead wrote: »

The vast majority of clerks went into the position because they felt better suited to "non confrontational duties". It is a promoted grade though, so now they are returning to the landings as ACO's (assistant chiefs, like sergeants) and Chiefs.

Most of them are terrified at the prospects of it and most haven't worked on the landings in donkeys years, some of them have visibly aged in the last few weeks they are so scared.

It's brilliant.

Is the IPS not setting itself up for people going long-term sick with stress if these lads will find it that bad going back on the landings ?

tommy101

480905 wrote: »

Sorry, I'll explain. In the Prison Service there's a thing called "Seniority". If an Officer Joins up and they're from Cork, or Limerick etc, they can expect to do a significant amount of time in Dublin Jails because there is a transfer list to their home Prison. The most junior goes to the bottom of the pile for transfer. And it doesn't matter if you have the most genuine reasons for going ahead of these people , you will be waiting for your transfer until it is your turn. For new PASO people I'm not sure how it will work , you can bet if an officer hears of a PASO getting home ahead of them it will cause uproar. Another headache for the IPS ooooopppps sorry , the POA.

Recruitment and transfer panels are completely seperate. If there are 6 new jobs recruited for cork then these are available to the new people applying for these positions. If a person opts to take a position in dublin because they do not get offered one of the six recruitment jobs in cork they must join a transfer panel based on seniority to switch in time to cork.The PASO and PO are two different jobs with there own recruitment and transfer panels which wont interfere with one another similar to that of grades in the civil service.

A PO must wait for a PO position to become vacant in the area they want to transfer in order to avail of the transfer, the PASO will have to wait for a PASO position to become available in order for them to transfer and these grades and panels will not interfere with one another.

casher123

Hi just wondering if anyone has done the hearing test and had a problem with it.My collague done it at a cost of €70 and was told his hearing would not get him into guards or Army does the same criteria apply for this job?

shawmor

casher123 wrote: »

Hi just wondering if anyone has done the hearing test and had a problem with it.My collague done it at a cost of €70 and was told his hearing would not get him into guards or Army does the same criteria apply for this job?

As far as I'm aware you have to be within normal hearing level. I think if you don't pass you can be referred to the chief medical officer for assessment.

casher123

Quick question does it appear that everyone that went for interview got throught to the next stage also has anyone got throught and decided not to continue?

shawmor

casher123 wrote: »

Quick question does it appear that everyone that went for interview got throught to the next stage also has anyone got throught and decided not to continue?

Not sure but I know public jobs are doing interviews today for this campaign. They said it would be the end of July when we would find out our place in order of merit.

factfindr

kiersm wrote: »

To be honest, I don't know why we have to do such a physical. I'm not looking to be a prison officer. I'm a co & don't see why we have to do this. Im really not looking forward to it

In the long term it is possible that these PASO's will be in alot more positions in a prison rather than just a co role hence the physical.Therefore you will be required to carry out many duties of a prison officer you will just be on a different pay scale.

killabban182

In the North they employed civilians to the nights, but after a while they found out most of them were going asleep when they were supposed to be working, will this be the next thing IPS will want to do?

Judymayo

I am interested in paso 3 post and have done interview, medical and audio (which was free by the way at specsavers) feel physical will be the biggest hurdle due to age and gender. I presently work shifts so any job that gets rid of nights would appeal to me. Why are others who worki 9 to 5 flexie applying?

shawmor

Judymayo wrote: »

I am interested in paso 3 post and have done interview, medical and audio (which was free by the way at specsavers) feel physical will be the biggest hurdle due to age and gender. I presently work shifts so any job that gets rid of nights would appeal to me. Why are others who worki 9 to 5 flexie applying?

I have flexi time and have applied for PASO. I've also done interview, medical and audiogram. I applied because I've been interested in the prison service for a while now. Missed my exam in 2008 for PO as was in hospital and there hasn't been any recruitment campaigns since

factfindr

Judymayo wrote: »

I am interested in paso 3 post and have done interview, medical and audio (which was free by the way at specsavers) feel physical will be the biggest hurdle due to age and gender. I presently work shifts so any job that gets rid of nights would appeal to me. Why are others who worki 9 to 5 flexie applying?

A prison is staffed 24 hours a day everyday that means there are night shifts there too

Judymayo

factfindr wrote: »

Judymayo wrote: »

I am interested in paso 3 post and have done interview, medical and audio (which was free by the way at specsavers) feel physical will be the biggest hurdle due to age and gender. I presently work shifts so any job that gets rid of nights would appeal to me. Why are others who worki 9 to 5 flexie applying?

A prison is staffed 24 hours a day everyday that means there are night shifts there too

Not for paso 111 according to job description. 7 or 8 the latest in evening and the odd sat. Beats working all night as I do at present. Shawmors reply puts me to shame as job comes second to shifts for me but it does sound as if it won't be boring which is a plus

factfindr

yes for the moment it is 7 to 8 but shifts can change over time new rosters etc. just something to keep in mind

shawmor

factfindr wrote: »

yes for the moment it is 7 to 8 but shifts can change over time new rosters etc. just something to keep in mind

I agree with you. I think after time the shifts will get later, longer and include nights.

factfindr

I have heard from some sections that these new staff for the general office will be working in other posts in the prison and will quickly replace the position of rpo, with this new grade being the only entry level to the prison service. Basically it's all about paying people alot less to work in this environment which I feel will result in some staff deciding this position is just not worth it.

Judymayo

factfindr wrote: »

I have heard from some sections that these new staff for the general office will be working in other posts in the prison and will quickly replace the position of rpo, with this new grade being the only entry level to the prison service. Basically it's all about paying people alot less to work in this environment which I feel will result in some staff deciding this position is just not worth it.

Please explain 'rpo' don't know the lingo

factfindr

Judymayo wrote: »

Please explain 'rpo' don't know the lingo

recruit prison officer it's the entry level to the prison service involves a 3 year training course divided up between on the job training and diploma studies

shawmor

factfindr wrote: »

Judymayo wrote: »

Please explain 'rpo' don't know the lingo

recruit prison officer it's the entry level to the prison service involves a 3 year training course divided up between on the job training and diploma studies

If a you became a PASO III do you think you would have to do the 3yr Sligo IT course?

factfindr

shawmor wrote: »

If a you became a PASO III do you think you would have to do the 3yr Sligo IT course?

No, that would cost money !

V480

Anyone get called for a fitness test yet? I thought it said in the information booklet that the fitness test would be conducted at the same time as the overall training?

shawmor

Yes that's what I got from it. It said in the letter for the medical we had to pass it during the probationary period, which is a year in the first booklet.

fly.on.the.wall

Regarding the pay, if you do the maths it seems for me anyway, thay they are paying almost the same hourly rate that im on now. Granted, your point on the payscale goes up, but you working an extra 200 approx hours a year.

This is coupled with having to work up to 8pm in cases and some saturdays, and they aint paying a premium for this! Misleading that they say in the circular, that the pay reflects these unsociable hours, but when you do the maths it clearly doesn't.

This with no flexi, or ability to work up time off makes for a tough decision. Hmmm Anyone else have any thoughts?

shawmor

fly.on.the.wall wrote: »

Regarding the pay, if you do the maths it seems for me anyway, thay they are paying almost the same hourly rate that im on now. Granted, your point on the payscale goes up, but you working an extra 200 approx hours a year.

This is coupled with having to work up to 8pm in cases and some saturdays, and they aint paying a premium for this! Misleading that they say in the circular, that the pay reflects these unsociable hours, but when you do the maths it clearly doesn't.

This with no flexi, or ability to work up time off makes for a tough decision. Hmmm Anyone else have any thoughts?

I worked out the pay increase for myself and it worked out at roughly €69 extra a week. Don't have exact figures with me they are at home. This is for working later hours, Saturday's and giving up flexi time. Also bearing in mind that the PASO III hours/ shifts could change at any time to include nights, it's a very tough decision.

twowheelsonly

shawmor wrote: »

I agree with you. I think after time the shifts will get later, longer and include nights.

Shifts won't get later IMO as the 'Jail Day' finishes at 8 in any case with the night staff taking over at that time. There's no need for clerical staff at night.

factfindr wrote: »

I have heard from some sections that these new staff for the general office will be working in other posts in the prison and will quickly replace the position of rpo, with this new grade being the only entry level to the prison service. Basically it's all about paying people alot less to work in this environment which I feel will result in some staff deciding this position is just not worth it.

Can't see that happening. As it is the RPOs' are on miserable money as it is. Also, transfers are based on Seniority so for a PASO to walk into a jail down the country and end up working on the floor shortly afterwards shouldn't be allowed to happen. Cork Prison is the worst - the next lads due for transfer in there are over 13 years waiting - but all 'Country' prisons have a transfer waiting time of a few years.

Right now, all of the Clerks are originally Prison Officers who were promoted to Office grades or ended up there by circumstance. All of these people are being redeployed back to Prison posts and the PASO grade will be taking over the office work.

Any PASO grade that would agree to being redeployed to the floor on their money would want to have their head examined IMO. As things stand you will have dealings with prisoners but mostly on a 1 to 1 basis with very little threat. You do however need to be able to assist any colleagues with any disturbance in your area which is likely to be rare and of a minor nature but can happen. The last thing that you want is to be known as the one that stood back!!
It can be complex and busy work depending on your post and where you'll be stationed. It involves dealing with Courts, Gardai, IPS Headquarters, Welfare, Teachers and a host of other outside agencies. Dealing with warrants can be the greatest PITA of all time. A lot of the work is routine but there's some sort of spanner thrown in almost every day. You also have to bear in mind that almost every piece of paper that you handle can end up being part of a legal challenge at some stage.
Serving Officers that have ended up working in the Clerical areas actually have an advantage over the likes of the new PASO grade as they have hands on experience of dealing with prisoners, Gardai and Courts by the time they end up in the offices so are familiar with different warrants and legal terminology etc.

Good luck to anyone that's going for it. Interesting times ahead!!!!

(Serving Officer BTW, NOT in the office area...)

Judymayo

I worked out the pay increase for myself and it worked out at roughly €69 extra a week. Don't have exact figures with me they are at home. This is for working later hours, Saturday's and giving up flexi time. Also bearing in mind that the PASO III hours/ shifts could change at any time to include nights, it's a very tough decision.[/Quote
If they introduce nights it becomes a whole new pay scale with a 25% shift allowance mandatory. Cant see that happening as little or no admin at night and they will hardly give the keys to paso's.

shawmor

Judymayo wrote: »

I worked out the pay increase for myself and it worked out at roughly €69 extra a week. Don't have exact figures with me they are at home. This is for working later hours, Saturday's and giving up flexi time. Also bearing in mind that the PASO III hours/ shifts could change at any time to include nights, it's a very tough decision.[/Quote
If they introduce nights it becomes a whole new pay scale with a 25% shift allowance mandatory. Cant see that happening as little or no admin at night and they will hardly give the keys to paso's.

Yeah that makes sense so I doubt that will happen.

V480

I can't really understand why someone would wish to leave a permanent position within the Civil Service to do this job, giving up flexi, ect. I'd be interested to hear why someone would?

Hopefully we will be told our place on the panel next week.

Rawhead

twowheelsonly wrote: »

Shifts won't get later IMO as the 'Jail Day' finishes at 8 in any case with the night staff taking over at that time. There's no need for clerical staff at night.



Can't see that happening. As it is the RPOs' are on miserable money as it is. Also, transfers are based on Seniority so for a PASO to walk into a jail down the country and end up working on the floor shortly afterwards shouldn't be allowed to happen. Cork Prison is the worst - the next lads due for transfer in there are over 13 years waiting - but all 'Country' prisons have a transfer waiting time of a few years.

Right now, all of the Clerks are originally Prison Officers who were promoted to Office grades or ended up there by circumstance. All of these people are being redeployed back to Prison posts and the PASO grade will be taking over the office work.

Any PASO grade that would agree to being redeployed to the floor on their money would want to have their head examined IMO. As things stand you will have dealings with prisoners but mostly on a 1 to 1 basis with very little threat. You do however need to be able to assist any colleagues with any disturbance in your area which is likely to be rare and of a minor nature but can happen. The last thing that you want is to be known as the one that stood back!!
It can be complex and busy work depending on your post and where you'll be stationed. It involves dealing with Courts, Gardai, IPS Headquarters, Welfare, Teachers and a host of other outside agencies. Dealing with warrants can be the greatest PITA of all time. A lot of the work is routine but there's some sort of spanner thrown in almost every day. You also have to bear in mind that almost every piece of paper that you handle can end up being part of a legal challenge at some stage.
Serving Officers that have ended up working in the Clerical areas actually have an advantage over the likes of the new PASO grade as they have hands on experience of dealing with prisoners, Gardai and Courts by the time they end up in the offices so are familiar with different warrants and legal terminology etc.

Good luck to anyone that's going for it. Interesting times ahead!!!!

(Serving Officer BTW, NOT in the office area...)

Do you not see this grade as yellow packs? The support part of the title and the uniform hints at control room, keys office, waiting room, SSU etc., etc.,.

I would be hugely surprised if they are limited to admin roles only, all non confrontational posts will be fair game I'd say.

For €67 a week you would want to be mentally ill to leave a nice air conditioned office with flexi-time and all the other perks to work in a kip of a general office dealing with uneducated oafs of Governors trying to bully you because they lack the education or intellect to converse with you like a normal human being.

twowheelsonly

Rawhead wrote: »

Do you not see this grade as yellow packs? The support part of the title and the uniform hints at control room, keys office, waiting room, SSU etc., etc.,.

I would be hugely surprised if they are limited to admin roles only, all non confrontational posts will be fair game I'd say.

For €67 a week you would want to be mentally ill to leave a nice air conditioned office with flexi-time and all the other perks to work in a kip of a general office dealing with uneducated oafs of Governors trying to bully you because they lack the education or intellect to converse with you like a normal human being.

I can see them doing some roles such as Waiting Room but I'd be kicking up a major fuss if they were in any non-confrontational Security Posts such as the Control Room, Keys Office, Main Gate etc. That's a whole new ball game and you need people that are 'Jail Wide' for those posts. Even the detail needs 'Jail Wide' staff - much as you mightn't think so at times

I agree with you BTW, think they're all mad to give up flexi-time and handy numbers and I doubt that most of them will make a real gain of €60+ a week or anywhere near it.

fly.on.the.wall

shawmor wrote: »

I worked out the pay increase for myself and it worked out at roughly €69 extra a week. Don't have exact figures with me they are at home. This is for working later hours, Saturday's and giving up flexi time. Also bearing in mind that the PASO III hours/ shifts could change at any time to include nights, it's a very tough decision.

You're missing the point. You are going to be working an extra four hours a week, that's why you are getting an extra 69€ in your pay packet. You are not getting paid a premium for evenings or Saturday work. You are basically just getting paid for working 4 extra hours, at the same hourly rate you are on now as a CO... i.e. €17.50

With the new PASO 3 grade, the max salary is just shy of €42,000 where as a conventional Prison Officer max basic salary with no over time included is just over €43,000 (and they have all the sh1te to deal with!!) €42,000 is an expensive yellow pack so!!

I think a lot of people, myself included are looking for a change from their present job, to try something new and different, and this gives us that opportunity. If it's not what we want, we get to rejoin the general civil service after a year.