Analogue Switch Off - 24/10/2012

The Cush

Sam Russell wrote: »

We have Analogue Switch Off, but NI have switch over. They have to re-use their frequencies which we do not.

That was to be the case until recently, but 7 of the 13 new Saorview transmitters will reuse existing analogue frequencies - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=80777488&postcount=296

Sam Russell

The Cush wrote: »

That was to be the case until recently, but 7 of the 13 new Saorview transmitters will reuse existing analogue frequencies - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=80777488&postcount=296

That is not the point. They are only there to extend coverage for those few voters people that are not part of the 98% covered by the original plan. Essentially, the whole system was complete at launch in May 2011.

The additional transmitters were for those too far from D4 to matter (normally).

excollier

You old cynic....

gozunda

The Cush wrote: »

Sam Russell wrote: »

We have Analogue Switch Off, but NI have switch over. They have to re-use their frequencies which we do not.

That was to be the case until recently, but 7 of the 13 new Saorview transmitters will reuse existing analogue frequencies - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=80777488&postcount=296

Does that mean that the analogue frequencies will remain available?

The Cush

gozunda wrote: »

Does that mean that the analogue frequencies will remain available?

The cleared analogue frequencies will be reused for future DTT allocation. The upper part of the band Chs. 61-69 will be reused for 4g mobile services from next year and Ch 60 is being used as a guard band between TV and mobile services for the moment but could be reused for DTT if there is a requirement.

lawhec

Sam Russell wrote: »

It should be remembered that the 24th October is the launch of Freeview in NI for most transmitters and the launch of FreeviewHD, but Saorview was launched here in May 2011. We have Analogue Switch Off, but NI have switch over. They have to re-use their frequencies which we do not.

All the publicity regarding Saorview fails to point out it was launched nearly 18 months ago!

Technically speaking, all the designated transmitters in Northern Ireland are already carrying pre-DSO Freeview services. It is the relays that are being converted from relaying analogue to digital services, while for the transmitters frequency allocations change and powers increase. At the majority of transmission sites and relays current analogue frequencies will be generally reused for PSB multiplexes however in some cases a new frequency for DTT will be used if E61 or E62 was allocated (e.g. Limavady) while some others are allocated entirely different frequency allocations, but other than Ballintoy all stay within the same aerial group.

In the case of Saorview, 24th October will see a removal of transmission restrictions w.r.t. the UK. This includes Truskmore going to full power (from 63kW to 160kW), Clermont Carn, Holywell Hill and Moville increasing in power and having directional restrictions removed and Mt. Leinster able to change frequency from E45 to E23 (and reputedly be back to transmitting on full power once the frequency change is made. Only then, alongside the additional small fillers that'll be put in place after ASO, can the Saorview network be "complete".

Sam Russell

lawhec wrote: »

Technically speaking, all the designated transmitters in Northern Ireland are already carrying pre-DSO Freeview services. It is the relays that are being converted from relaying analogue to digital services, while for the transmitters frequency allocations change and powers increase. At the majority of transmission sites and relays current analogue frequencies will be generally reused for PSB multiplexes however in some cases a new frequency for DTT will be used if E61 or E62 was allocated (e.g. Limavady) while some others are allocated entirely different frequency allocations, but other than Ballintoy all stay within the same aerial group.

In the case of Saorview, 24th October will see a removal of transmission restrictions w.r.t. the UK. This includes Truskmore going to full power (from 63kW to 160kW), Clermont Carn, Holywell Hill and Moville increasing in power and having directional restrictions removed and Mt. Leinster able to change frequency from E45 to E23 (and reputedly be back to transmitting on full power once the frequency change is made. Only then, alongside the additional small fillers that'll be put in place after ASO, can the Saorview network be "complete".

That is what I said, is it not.

Mount Leinster is the only real change that people will be affected by, as all the others could be considered tweaks.

NI has a completely different situation. All relays will be new. All power levels will be increased. So it will be a completely new transmitter situation affecting ALL transmitters, requiring two retunes - Oct 10th and Oct 24th. People without a Freeview receiver lose BBC2 from the 10th Oct. That is not the case here.

lawhec

Sam Russell wrote: »

That is what I said, is it not.

Mount Leinster is the only real change that people will be affected by, as all the others could be considered tweaks.

So Clermont Carn moving frequency isn't something that'll require a retune? People who live in the border areas, on each side, should see an improvement in coverage post-24/10.

The fact is that the Saorview network rollout isn't 'complete'. Complete is 100%. Not 90% done, not 95% done, not 98% done. Accepted that for the majority of Saorview viewers no retuning should be necessary for current services.

Sam Russell

lawhec wrote: »

So Clermont Carn moving frequency isn't something that'll require a retune? People who live in the border areas, on each side, should see an improvement in coverage post-24/10.

The fact is that the Saorview network rollout isn't 'complete'. Complete is 100%. Not 90% done, not 95% done, not 98% done. Accepted that for the majority of Saorview viewers no retuning should be necessary for current services.

The coverage of 95% is considered 'complete' as 100% is impossible given the geography. The Saorsat solution covers most of those who cannot receive Saorview, but even then, there are those who will not be able to receive that either.

Individual transmitter retunes will occur, such as Threerock, so that does not alter the argument. ALL the NI transmitters are moving frequency, and power. That means that for some in NI, a different transmitter becomes the most suitable. That is not so for Saorview, except for a small proportion of people, particularly those near the border, and of course, those in NI.

We could have had ASO last October. We had more than 95% coverage then, and there was no need for us to co-ordinate with NI, just as Wales or England did not co-ordinate with us.

Think of the power (and money) we could have saved.

The Cush

Sam Russell wrote: »

The coverage of 95% is considered 'complete' as 100% is impossible given the geography.

95% is not considered complete. The original 51 Saorview transmitters will cover 98% of the population according to RTÉNL and with 13 new sites switching over to Saorview in Oct and maybe up to 5 new sites next year increasing coverage over 98% of the population.

The Broadcasting Act required DTT coverage to match the 98% coverage of analogue before ASO could take place.

lawhec

Sam Russell wrote: »

The coverage of 95% is considered 'complete' as 100% is impossible given the geography. The Saorsat solution covers most of those who cannot receive Saorview, but even then, there are those who will not be able to receive that either.

The percentage of the population covered is not what is being defined as the network being 'complete' - it is the completion of the network on a technical basis, in this case the Saorview transmission network regardless wherever it intends to cover 99.9%, 98%, 95%, 50% or 5% of the population. Since there are a few relays stations that are due to be brought in line as late additions, frequency changes, power increases and restrictions on coverage eased that can't be completed until all UHF analogue TV transmissions have been turned off, the Saorview network is not complete at least as a single multiplex service until this is done. 95% of the job done is not 'complete'. In the same way that about this time next week about 95% of the post-DSO Freeview network in all of the UK will have been put in place - it still isn't complete.

geriatrix

lawhec wrote: »

...In the case of Saorview, 24th October will see a removal of transmission restrictions w.r.t. the UK. This includes Truskmore going to full power (from 63kW to 160kW), Clermont Carn, Holywell Hill and Moville increasing in power and having directional restrictions removed...

Re. Moville transmitter:-

Email from Saorview.Info@rte.ie on 2nd Oct told me "After 10am on the 24th October you should be able to re-tune and receive the Saorview channels".

Analogue switched off 10.00am but I've read elsewhere that Clermont Carn isn't increasing power until 1.00pm

Has anyone got information about the time on 24th when Moville will increase power and have directional restrictions removed, i.e., when should I re-tune?

Pangea

Is it possible that one might have too strong of a signal? I think I have a booster of some kind to help improve my signal, with Truskmore going full whack tomorrow it will be interesting to see what happens.

The Cush

geriatrix wrote: »

Re. Moville transmitter:-

Email from Saorview.Info@rte.ie on 2nd Oct told me "After 10am on the 24th October you should be able to re-tune and receive the Saorview channels".

Analogue switched off 10.00am but I've read elsewhere that Clermont Carn isn't increasing power until 1.00pm

Has anyone got information about the time on 24th when Moville will increase power and have directional restrictions removed, i.e., when should I re-tune?

I think the reply from Saorview answers that question - "After 10am on the 24th October you should be able to re-tune and receive the Saorview channels", nothing official other than that.

Regarding Clermont Carn it's starting transmission on a cleared analogue frequency so I guess it'll take a little time to do the changeover from analogue to DTT. My guess would be that it could appear before 1300hrs but the later switchon gives them a buffer if there is any delay. I remember when Three Rock changed frequency in July viewers were advised to retune after 1300 hrs also but was back online on the new frequency around 1100hrs.

geriatrix

The Cush wrote: »

I think the reply from Saorview answers that question - "After 10am on the 24th October you should be able to re-tune and receive the Saorview channels", nothing official other than that.

You're right, seems it's a process at the transmitter and not an instant transaction. Use of the word "switch" may give the wrong impression.
I emailed Technical Support, RTÉ Transmission Network and they tell me they cannot advise exactly what time the changes at their Moville transposer will be completed tomorrow but expect that they will be finalised by 18.00hrs at the latest.
They're probably hedging just a bit, in case of unforeseen problems.

formerly scottish paddy

geriatrix wrote: »

You're right, seems it's a process at the transmitter and not an instant transaction. Use of the word "switch" may give the wrong impression.
I emailed Technical Support, RTÉ Transmission Network and they tell me they cannot advise exactly what time the changes at their Moville transposer will be completed tomorrow but expect that they will be finalised by 18.00hrs at the latest.
They're probably hedging just a bit, in case of unforeseen problems.

Yea, they are going to be a bit busy tomorrow

Jenny_94

So will it be Static from 10am tomorrow morning or will there be a message on screen for awhile telling people to call saorview for help or something ?

The Cush

Jenny_94 wrote: »

So will it be Static from 10am tomorrow morning or will there be a message on screen for awhile telling people to call saorview for help or something ?

Won't know until tomorrow morning but assumption is it'll be static.

ardmacha

Won't know until tomorrow morning but assumption is it'll be static.

As RTÉ mostly doesn't need the channels it would be good to display a message for a few days.

The Cush

ardmacha wrote: »

As RTÉ mostly doesn't need the channels it would be good to display a message for a few days.

That would be a good idea, suggested by Apogee earlier in the thread.

Hotblack Desiato

ardmacha wrote: »

As RTÉ mostly doesn't need the channels it would be good to display a message for a few days.

Not all of them block NI post-ASO transmissions, but some do - that's the reason the switchover was co-ordinated across the border (ignoring the 10.5 hours between their ASO and ours)

But... we've been displaying the "X October 24" message for ages now, which is more explicit I think than the "DSO in n days" message BBC NI has been showing. It's a clear sign that action is needed...

Capt'n Midnight

Unplugged teh TV from UPC and did an analog scan, possibly for the last time, digital signal
(mix of Kippure and Three Rock)

05 RTE1
08 RTE2
17 RTE1
29 RTE1
30 90% signal strength
33 NET2
35 TV 3
54 98% signal strength
55 TG4
59 TG4
62 TV 3

byte

ninja900 wrote: »

Not all of them block NI post-ASO transmissions, but some do - that's the reason the switchover was co-ordinated across the border (ignoring the 10.5 hours between their ASO and ours)

But... we've been displaying the "X October 24" message for ages now, which is more explicit I think than the "DSO in n days" message BBC NI has been showing. It's a clear sign that action is needed...

Shame it seems that many chose not to take action until the last couple of days. But aye, the DSO graphic on BBC did seem poor.

marclt

So - not long now - less than 40 minutes... although something tells me ASO might not happen at exactly 10am!

formerly scottish paddy

byte wrote: »

Shame it seems that many chose not to take action until the last couple of days. But aye, the DSO graphic on BBC did seem poor.

Yea, apparently they had loads of people contacting them asking them what the "DSO 19 days" meant

formerly scottish paddy

.........................it's the waiting that gets you......................................:D

DenMan

Not long now!

STB

Live on RTE Player (non analogue version )

http://www.rte.ie/player/ie/live/7/

Capt'n Midnight

mouse click

wanted big sparks switch

PauloMN

Well, it's static now on what was Clermont Carn analogue!