Analogue Switch Off - 24/10/2012

eirman

Now that the summer is over, I'm gonna set a countdown timer so I need to know will it turn off at ...

midnight on the 23rd
midday on the 24th
midnight on the 24th
will they all go together or one at a time (bbc2 usually went before bbc1)
will gaybo start to shout louder at the time approaches
will the X keep getting bigger
maybe tv3 will have their own countdown timer

galtee boy

eirman wrote: »

Now that the summer is over, I'm gonna set a countdown timer so I need to know will it turn off at ...

midnight on the 23rd
midday on the 24th
midnight on the 24th
will they all go together or one at a time (bbc2 usually went before bbc1)
will gaybo start to shout louder at the time approaches
will the X keep getting bigger
maybe tv3 will have their own countdown timer

Local tv dealer near me says RTE told him, 10am on morning of 24th Oct.

The Cush

eirman wrote: »

Now that the summer is over, I'm gonna set a countdown timer so I need to know will it turn off at ...

midnight on the 23rd
midday on the 24th
midnight on the 24th
will they all go together or one at a time (bbc2 usually went before bbc1)

They'll probably go in the early hours of Wed 24th Oct to allow the transmitters north of the border to switchover/switch on to their final allocations and powers without interference from transmitters south of the border.

Analogue BBC2 will be switched off in DSO Stage 1 (10th Oct) in NI, that's 2 weeks before our ASO date. The other analogue channels will go sometime between midnight and 1.00 am on the 24th.

There's an ASO countdown timer on http://www.goingdigital.ie/

steveon

Was a saorview demo in Limerick today and 10am on october 24th was given as the offical time.

The Cush

steveon wrote: »

Was a saorview demo in Limerick today and 10am on october 24th was given as the offical time.

Well I suppose we're not the UK, no point rushing it - lets do it after breakfast

As the last UK region to DSO I wonder if NI will be doing the same, unlike the other UK regions where the main transmitters and some relays were switched over by 6 am? Maybe they'll do it as PR thing - the last UK analogue transmitters to switchoff after xx years of broadcasting.

The Cush

Saorview confirmed on their facebook page today that ASO will take place at 10am on the morning of Oct 24th. It's been mentioned elsewhere (above + Indo article) but this is the first time I've seen it posted on any of the official websites.

Saorview
11 hours ago

Time is ticking away and there are now only 50 days left to Analogue Switch Off on 24th October. The signal will be switched off at 10am that morning and anyone who has not made the switch will be facing a blank screen. If you know anyone who may need a bit of help getting switched, please lend a hand. All the information you need is available on our website http://www.saorview.ie/ or you can ask any questions here on facebook.

http://www.facebook.com/?email_confirmed=1#!/saorview/posts/107920956026852

Mary Curtis, Director of Digital Switchover, commented:

From time to time at some of our events and roadshows we encounter people who don’t really seem convinced that the analogue service will actually be shut down on that date. I can absolutely assure you that the analogue service will be permanently shut down at 10.00am on 24 October and any viewer who is not ready for digital by then will face a blank screen.

http://www.saorview.ie/news/50-days-to-switchover/

Apogee

She mentioned 10am shutdown on Morning Ireland yesterday too.

Wonder what the topic of conversation will be on Liveline on Oct 24th...

The Cush

Apogee wrote: »

She mentioned 10am shutdown on Morning Ireland yesterday too.

Wonder what the topic of conversation will be on Liveline on Oct 24th...

I thought it was the interviewer who mentioned the 10am switchoff at the end of the discussion, I'd have to listen back to be sure.

Apogee

You're right

Gavin Jennings: Just to be clear here there's no, for want of a better word, there's no amnesty here, 10 O'Clock in the morning on October the 24th, it's gone.

Mary Curtis: It's gone. There's lots and lots of help available...

The Idyll Race

eirman wrote: »

will the X keep getting bigger

I like this one, perhaps it can grow to cover the screen over the next few weeks

The Cush

The new RTÉNL website has added an ASO countdown timer to its homepage. The target time is 2100hrs GMT (10.00pm local) on Oct 24th, an error or delayed switchoff?

</script> <script language="javascript" type="text/javascript">
jQuery(document).ready(function() {
jQuery('#5295-dashboard').countDown({
targetDate: {
'day': 24,
'month': 10,
'year': 2012,
'hour': 21,
'min': 00,
'sec': 00,
'localtime': '9/13/2012 11:53:48'
},
style: 'carbonlite',
omitWeeks: true });
});
</script>

ardmacha

The target time is 2100hrs GMT on Oct 24th, an error or delayed switchoff?

Should they not make it 21:30 and turn it off just after the weather forecast, having discussed it in the News?

Will we all be watching it to the end?

The Cush

ardmacha wrote: »

Should they not make it 21:30 and turn it off just after the weather forecast, having discussed it in the News?

Will we all be watching it to the end?

Every official discussion/press release etc. on this in the last week or so has said it will happen at 10.00am in the morning, probably an error on the RTÉNL site.

JonathonS

Harvey Norman reckons its 12 midnight on the 23rd

http://www.digitalswitch.ie/

(have I got that right????)

The Cush

JonathonS wrote: »

Harvey Norman reckons its 12 midnight on the 23rd

http://www.digitalswitch.ie/

(have I got that right????)

Before the powers that be officially announced the 10.00am switchoff on Oct 24th we all expected (incl Harvey Norman it appears) ASO to happen in the early hours of the 24th in conjunction with the switchoff in NI and in line with the UK regions. The switchoff time for NI hasn't been announced yet but expected soon.

The Cush

The Cush wrote: »

The new RTÉNL website has added an ASO countdown timer to its homepage. The target time is 2100hrs GMT on Oct 24th, an error or delayed switchoff?

Fixed, now counting down to 10.00am on Oct 24th.

formerly scottish paddy

How are the transmitters actually switched off, manually or timer unit or central control? With all the relays that is a big job! The change of channels and power levels at some DTT transmitters will surely have to be done manually?

excollier

There's a man in Dublin with a bank of those big contact breakers like you see in the movies, waiting to swing them open......

Sam Russell

Perhaps they will just stop sending the signal.

Apogee

Or run a caption stating the analogue service has ended and please switch to Saorview to continue viewing.

Similar to the recorded loop after end of MW:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glh5Mqd4dAk

The Cush

Apogee wrote: »

Or run a caption stating the analogue service has ended and please switch to Saorview to continue viewing.

That would be a good idea, to run a caption/video on 1 one the old analogue frequencies such as RTÉ1's vacated frequency (if not conflicting with anything north of the border and available to those with UHF/VHF aerials) for a week or so.

Sam Russell

It would certainly work on VHF channels, which would have a large coverage. It could be restricted to one frequency/channel as well. This would reduce power use and also channel use/interference.

However, it might be a good idea to do it before shutdown as well. For example, after midnight on the 23rd/24th on the channels due to be shut down.

The Cush

The Cush wrote: »

Before the powers that be officially announced the 10.00am switchoff on Oct 24th we all expected (incl Harvey Norman it appears) ASO to happen in the early hours of the 24th in conjunction with the switchoff in NI and in line with the UK regions. The switchoff time for NI hasn't been announced yet but expected soon.

Final NI DigitalUK installers newsletter published today which includes information on the analogue transmitter switchoff times. As with the other UK regions NI will be switching off their analogue transmitters after midnight while we switchoff later that morning at 10.00am.

Could there be a delay in switching over some of the DTT transmitters north of the border until analogue is switched off down here?

formerly scottish paddy

The Cush wrote: »

Final NI DigitalUK installers newsletter published today which includes information on the analogue transmitter switchoff times. As with the other UK regions NI will be switching off their analogue transmitters after midnight while we switchoff later that morning at 10.00am

It states that the main transmitters will switch by 6:00am but some of the relays will not switch until the afternoon. Wonder where the very last analogue tv transmission will take place in Ireland?

formerly scottish paddy

Sam Russell wrote: »

Perhaps they will just stop sending the signal.

Yea, but that does not stop the RF transmission

excollier

Just switch 'em off. Nothing like a short, sharp shock.....

Sam Russell

formerly scottish paddy wrote: »

It states that the main transmitters will switch by 6:00am but some of the relays will not switch until the afternoon. Wonder where the very last analogue tv transmission will take place in Ireland?

It will be a deflector somewhere out West.:)

gozunda

I wonder if the countdown will coincide with a corresponding rise in the price of set top boxes? Or will retailers wait until people have no option and then jack up prices?

formerly scottish paddy

gozunda wrote: »

I wonder if the countdown will coincide with a corresponding rise in the price of set top boxes? Or will retailers wait until people have no option and then jack up prices?

The prices of STB's I suspect will rise as the day approaches and demand increases, but some time after the 24th Oct. when everyone has made the switch, (one way or another), the price should fall as demand plummets. Remember the STB is only a stop-gap solution for older analogue or MPEG 2 only tv sets, as all future sets sold should be MPEG 4/ Saorview capable.

Peter Rhea

formerly scottish paddy wrote: »

It states that the main transmitters will switch by 6:00am but some of the relays will not switch until the afternoon. Wonder where the very last analogue tv transmission will take place in Ireland?

All analogue in NI will be switched off 'around midnight' on the 24th. The other times given are for the switching on of the digital transmissions.

Sam Russell

It should be remembered that the 24th October is the launch of Freeview in NI for most transmitters and the launch of FreeviewHD, but Saorview was launched here in May 2011. We have Analogue Switch Off, but NI have switch over. They have to re-use their frequencies which we do not.

All the publicity regarding Saorview fails to point out it was launched nearly 18 months ago!

The Cush

Sam Russell wrote: »

We have Analogue Switch Off, but NI have switch over. They have to re-use their frequencies which we do not.

That was to be the case until recently, but 7 of the 13 new Saorview transmitters will reuse existing analogue frequencies - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=80777488&postcount=296

Sam Russell

The Cush wrote: »

That was to be the case until recently, but 7 of the 13 new Saorview transmitters will reuse existing analogue frequencies - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=80777488&postcount=296

That is not the point. They are only there to extend coverage for those few voters people that are not part of the 98% covered by the original plan. Essentially, the whole system was complete at launch in May 2011.

The additional transmitters were for those too far from D4 to matter (normally).

excollier

You old cynic....

gozunda

The Cush wrote: »

Sam Russell wrote: »

We have Analogue Switch Off, but NI have switch over. They have to re-use their frequencies which we do not.

That was to be the case until recently, but 7 of the 13 new Saorview transmitters will reuse existing analogue frequencies - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=80777488&postcount=296

Does that mean that the analogue frequencies will remain available?

The Cush

gozunda wrote: »

Does that mean that the analogue frequencies will remain available?

The cleared analogue frequencies will be reused for future DTT allocation. The upper part of the band Chs. 61-69 will be reused for 4g mobile services from next year and Ch 60 is being used as a guard band between TV and mobile services for the moment but could be reused for DTT if there is a requirement.

lawhec

Sam Russell wrote: »

It should be remembered that the 24th October is the launch of Freeview in NI for most transmitters and the launch of FreeviewHD, but Saorview was launched here in May 2011. We have Analogue Switch Off, but NI have switch over. They have to re-use their frequencies which we do not.

All the publicity regarding Saorview fails to point out it was launched nearly 18 months ago!

Technically speaking, all the designated transmitters in Northern Ireland are already carrying pre-DSO Freeview services. It is the relays that are being converted from relaying analogue to digital services, while for the transmitters frequency allocations change and powers increase. At the majority of transmission sites and relays current analogue frequencies will be generally reused for PSB multiplexes however in some cases a new frequency for DTT will be used if E61 or E62 was allocated (e.g. Limavady) while some others are allocated entirely different frequency allocations, but other than Ballintoy all stay within the same aerial group.

In the case of Saorview, 24th October will see a removal of transmission restrictions w.r.t. the UK. This includes Truskmore going to full power (from 63kW to 160kW), Clermont Carn, Holywell Hill and Moville increasing in power and having directional restrictions removed and Mt. Leinster able to change frequency from E45 to E23 (and reputedly be back to transmitting on full power once the frequency change is made. Only then, alongside the additional small fillers that'll be put in place after ASO, can the Saorview network be "complete".

Sam Russell

lawhec wrote: »

Technically speaking, all the designated transmitters in Northern Ireland are already carrying pre-DSO Freeview services. It is the relays that are being converted from relaying analogue to digital services, while for the transmitters frequency allocations change and powers increase. At the majority of transmission sites and relays current analogue frequencies will be generally reused for PSB multiplexes however in some cases a new frequency for DTT will be used if E61 or E62 was allocated (e.g. Limavady) while some others are allocated entirely different frequency allocations, but other than Ballintoy all stay within the same aerial group.

In the case of Saorview, 24th October will see a removal of transmission restrictions w.r.t. the UK. This includes Truskmore going to full power (from 63kW to 160kW), Clermont Carn, Holywell Hill and Moville increasing in power and having directional restrictions removed and Mt. Leinster able to change frequency from E45 to E23 (and reputedly be back to transmitting on full power once the frequency change is made. Only then, alongside the additional small fillers that'll be put in place after ASO, can the Saorview network be "complete".

That is what I said, is it not.

Mount Leinster is the only real change that people will be affected by, as all the others could be considered tweaks.

NI has a completely different situation. All relays will be new. All power levels will be increased. So it will be a completely new transmitter situation affecting ALL transmitters, requiring two retunes - Oct 10th and Oct 24th. People without a Freeview receiver lose BBC2 from the 10th Oct. That is not the case here.

lawhec

Sam Russell wrote: »

That is what I said, is it not.

Mount Leinster is the only real change that people will be affected by, as all the others could be considered tweaks.

So Clermont Carn moving frequency isn't something that'll require a retune? People who live in the border areas, on each side, should see an improvement in coverage post-24/10.

The fact is that the Saorview network rollout isn't 'complete'. Complete is 100%. Not 90% done, not 95% done, not 98% done. Accepted that for the majority of Saorview viewers no retuning should be necessary for current services.

Sam Russell

lawhec wrote: »

So Clermont Carn moving frequency isn't something that'll require a retune? People who live in the border areas, on each side, should see an improvement in coverage post-24/10.

The fact is that the Saorview network rollout isn't 'complete'. Complete is 100%. Not 90% done, not 95% done, not 98% done. Accepted that for the majority of Saorview viewers no retuning should be necessary for current services.

The coverage of 95% is considered 'complete' as 100% is impossible given the geography. The Saorsat solution covers most of those who cannot receive Saorview, but even then, there are those who will not be able to receive that either.

Individual transmitter retunes will occur, such as Threerock, so that does not alter the argument. ALL the NI transmitters are moving frequency, and power. That means that for some in NI, a different transmitter becomes the most suitable. That is not so for Saorview, except for a small proportion of people, particularly those near the border, and of course, those in NI.

We could have had ASO last October. We had more than 95% coverage then, and there was no need for us to co-ordinate with NI, just as Wales or England did not co-ordinate with us.

Think of the power (and money) we could have saved.

The Cush

Sam Russell wrote: »

The coverage of 95% is considered 'complete' as 100% is impossible given the geography.

95% is not considered complete. The original 51 Saorview transmitters will cover 98% of the population according to RTÉNL and with 13 new sites switching over to Saorview in Oct and maybe up to 5 new sites next year increasing coverage over 98% of the population.

The Broadcasting Act required DTT coverage to match the 98% coverage of analogue before ASO could take place.

lawhec

Sam Russell wrote: »

The coverage of 95% is considered 'complete' as 100% is impossible given the geography. The Saorsat solution covers most of those who cannot receive Saorview, but even then, there are those who will not be able to receive that either.

The percentage of the population covered is not what is being defined as the network being 'complete' - it is the completion of the network on a technical basis, in this case the Saorview transmission network regardless wherever it intends to cover 99.9%, 98%, 95%, 50% or 5% of the population. Since there are a few relays stations that are due to be brought in line as late additions, frequency changes, power increases and restrictions on coverage eased that can't be completed until all UHF analogue TV transmissions have been turned off, the Saorview network is not complete at least as a single multiplex service until this is done. 95% of the job done is not 'complete'. In the same way that about this time next week about 95% of the post-DSO Freeview network in all of the UK will have been put in place - it still isn't complete.

geriatrix

lawhec wrote: »

...In the case of Saorview, 24th October will see a removal of transmission restrictions w.r.t. the UK. This includes Truskmore going to full power (from 63kW to 160kW), Clermont Carn, Holywell Hill and Moville increasing in power and having directional restrictions removed...

Re. Moville transmitter:-

Email from Saorview.Info@rte.ie on 2nd Oct told me "After 10am on the 24th October you should be able to re-tune and receive the Saorview channels".

Analogue switched off 10.00am but I've read elsewhere that Clermont Carn isn't increasing power until 1.00pm

Has anyone got information about the time on 24th when Moville will increase power and have directional restrictions removed, i.e., when should I re-tune?

Pangea

Is it possible that one might have too strong of a signal? I think I have a booster of some kind to help improve my signal, with Truskmore going full whack tomorrow it will be interesting to see what happens.

The Cush

geriatrix wrote: »

Re. Moville transmitter:-

Email from Saorview.Info@rte.ie on 2nd Oct told me "After 10am on the 24th October you should be able to re-tune and receive the Saorview channels".

Analogue switched off 10.00am but I've read elsewhere that Clermont Carn isn't increasing power until 1.00pm

Has anyone got information about the time on 24th when Moville will increase power and have directional restrictions removed, i.e., when should I re-tune?

I think the reply from Saorview answers that question - "After 10am on the 24th October you should be able to re-tune and receive the Saorview channels", nothing official other than that.

Regarding Clermont Carn it's starting transmission on a cleared analogue frequency so I guess it'll take a little time to do the changeover from analogue to DTT. My guess would be that it could appear before 1300hrs but the later switchon gives them a buffer if there is any delay. I remember when Three Rock changed frequency in July viewers were advised to retune after 1300 hrs also but was back online on the new frequency around 1100hrs.

geriatrix

The Cush wrote: »

I think the reply from Saorview answers that question - "After 10am on the 24th October you should be able to re-tune and receive the Saorview channels", nothing official other than that.

You're right, seems it's a process at the transmitter and not an instant transaction. Use of the word "switch" may give the wrong impression.
I emailed Technical Support, RTÉ Transmission Network and they tell me they cannot advise exactly what time the changes at their Moville transposer will be completed tomorrow but expect that they will be finalised by 18.00hrs at the latest.
They're probably hedging just a bit, in case of unforeseen problems.

formerly scottish paddy

geriatrix wrote: »

You're right, seems it's a process at the transmitter and not an instant transaction. Use of the word "switch" may give the wrong impression.
I emailed Technical Support, RTÉ Transmission Network and they tell me they cannot advise exactly what time the changes at their Moville transposer will be completed tomorrow but expect that they will be finalised by 18.00hrs at the latest.
They're probably hedging just a bit, in case of unforeseen problems.

Yea, they are going to be a bit busy tomorrow

Jenny_94

So will it be Static from 10am tomorrow morning or will there be a message on screen for awhile telling people to call saorview for help or something ?

The Cush

Jenny_94 wrote: »

So will it be Static from 10am tomorrow morning or will there be a message on screen for awhile telling people to call saorview for help or something ?

Won't know until tomorrow morning but assumption is it'll be static.

ardmacha

Won't know until tomorrow morning but assumption is it'll be static.

As RTÉ mostly doesn't need the channels it would be good to display a message for a few days.

The Cush

ardmacha wrote: »

As RTÉ mostly doesn't need the channels it would be good to display a message for a few days.

That would be a good idea, suggested by Apogee earlier in the thread.