Mens Rights Thread

H3llR4iser

gizmo555 wrote: »

As a male IT professional, I think its good. It's not discriminating against boys, its encouraging more girls to consider the profession, which has a shortage of people generally. So this is not creating opportunities for girls by taking them from boys. She has set up a group for girls, but on the video you can also clearly see boys participating in her other activities.

Yeah guys, we're losing sight of the ball a little bit here - I don't see an inherent problem with trying to get more girls into coding/IT, we're not talking about quotas. Given the fact there is indeed a general struggle for numbers in the field, trying to "encourage" that 50% slice of the population who seems to largely ignore it to at least consider a career is a no-brainer.


The part that needs serious, unbiased further investigation is the cause of such disparity - which works both ways when you consider things like teaching and nursing.

Maxpfizer wrote: »

Her answer was that they want "equal pay for work of equal value".

That is absolutely hilarious...I would really like it 'though, I could swap salaries with the company CEO, surely making the stuff we sell is of higher "value" than jetting around the world to go to "conventions"...

Calhoun

I don't believe we are loosing sight of anything. if we are playing by the rules of gender equality, what exactly are we doing for young boys other than put out a general vibe of your a dirty rapist.

iptba

Here's the latest batch of gender-related hashtags I have noticed trending for anyone interested (I know some are not)
(Aside: I'm not on Twitter 24/7 of course and don't look back at lists for when I wasn't on)


#SafeWorldSummit
The Safe Ireland Safe World Summit is taking place in The Mansion House on Monday and Tuesday, October 22nd and 23rd. Over 35 world leading activists, advocates, lawyers, historians, journalists, and survivors are coming to Dublin to explore the meaningful solutions that are needed to support women and children experiencing violence.

#LTB18
https://twitter.com/Noelle_OC/status/1054809059688353793
https://twitter.com/eimear0601/status/1054829105198309376

#Movember
Men show off their freshly shaved faces as Movember kicks off

#WomenWhoVenture
https://twitter.com/msquinn/status/1058009459119742976

#GoogleWalkout (Sort of fits)
https://twitter.com/CNET/status/1058001016954720256

professore

Calhoun wrote: »

How long ago was this? and do you think they would get away with it in 2018? I hope you didn't let that stop them from learning though.

About 6 years ago now. And neither of them had any interest in coding after that - although I doubt they ever did before either. My daughter is happily pursuing a non IT related STEM degree and her friend is training to be a make up artist.

She's a good case in point actually. High points and good results in maths and science subjects, and genuinely loves these subjects, not just a rote learner (impossible for maths anyway), yet she had no interest in IT as a career. Biology is her thing. You know, living systems. No amount of forcing or programmes would have swayed her. I even tried taking her to an engineering exhibition where students were showing their different areas of study. No dice. There was no patriarchy forcing her, or a lack of ability, just a lack of interest. In fact we were enormously supportive. And every other experience was very supportive apart from the coder dojo where I guess she was unlucky.

As anyone who works in IT knows, if you don't get a kick out of it, it's damn hard work and boring as hell.

Calhoun

professore wrote: »

About 6 years ago now. And neither of them had any interest in coding after that - although I doubt they ever did before either. My daughter is happily pursuing a non IT related STEM degree and her friend is training to be a make up artist.

She's a good case in point actually. High points and good results in maths and science subjects, and genuinely loves these subjects, not just a rote learner (impossible for maths anyway), yet she had no interest in IT as a career. Biology is her thing. You know, living systems. No amount of forcing or programmes would have swayed her. I even tried taking her to an engineering exhibition where students were showing their different areas of study. No dice. There was no patriarchy forcing her, or a lack of ability, just a lack of interest. In fact we were enormously supportive. And every other experience was very supportive apart from the coder dojo where I guess she was unlucky.

As anyone who works in IT knows, if you don't get a kick out of it, it's damn hard work and boring as hell.

That's great to hear and looks like you and your wife got her on the right track in the end and she is doing something she likes but also isn't some crappy fluff course.

Don't get me wrong either, i have two daughters one of which is on the ASD spectrum. Life isn't easy regardless of your gender i would rather they know they need to earn stuff off their own back because right now all this "female power" could just be a phase, or it could just be a select few at the top of the totem pole getting picked. They both need to be ready for the world.

A side aspect to this is i also believe in equality.

H3llR4iser

professore wrote: »

About 6 years ago now. And neither of them had any interest in coding after that - although I doubt they ever did before either. My daughter is happily pursuing a non IT related STEM degree and her friend is training to be a make up artist.

She's a good case in point actually. High points and good results in maths and science subjects, and genuinely loves these subjects, not just a rote learner (impossible for maths anyway), yet she had no interest in IT as a career. Biology is her thing. You know, living systems. No amount of forcing or programmes would have swayed her. I even tried taking her to an engineering exhibition where students were showing their different areas of study. No dice. There was no patriarchy forcing her, or a lack of ability, just a lack of interest. In fact we were enormously supportive. And every other experience was very supportive apart from the coder dojo where I guess she was unlucky.

As anyone who works in IT knows, if you don't get a kick out of it, it's damn hard work and boring as hell.

As someone who has been nearly two decades in IT, had she been my daughter I'd be very happy myself about her choice; and it has zero to do with the "male dominated industry" thing.



In short and as you perfectly pointed out in the last paragraph, working in IT becomes a soul-shattering boring grind after a few years and, while the pay is good compared to other STEM fields at the beginning of your career and through the mid-level years, it quickly plateaus when you reach senior levels - and there can be a hard stop when trying to move into management.



It's also a career path devoid of satisfaction: a few devs will go on and write the guidance system that'll land humans on Mars, but the vast majority will just be making more money for some CEO who already drives a Lambo anyway, gluing together pre-built libraries and modules and having a daily trip through dependencies hell. All while spending the day in the exciting world of financial software or b2b services.



TL;DR - Good for her!

Padraig Mor

Padraig Mor wrote: »

These quotas are already in place. Applications to the major Irish research funding bodies from universities are required to have at least 50% women, regardless of the breakdown of the applications submitted internally. It is, in effect, much easier for a woman to get a grant.

As an example of something along similar lines, here's an email from today from a major Irish educational body, offering a mentoring programme in cooperation with a multinational company - as long as you're the correct gender. This is but one of many similar programmes - all open only to females.



XXXXXXX mentoring programme 2018/2019 – for XXX

XXXXXX is committed to taking steps to inspire women and girls to seek out careers within Science, Technology, Engineering and Mathematics (STEM) disciplines. Research shows that women who have support and mentorship opportunities are more likely to seek out STEM careers.

XXXXXX have agreed to provide a mentoring opportunity for female XXX students and one female post-doctoral researcher supported by partnering with STEMconnector®’s Million Women Mentors (MWM), an initiative that aspires to provide 1 million mentors for girls and women looking to pursue STEM careers by 2019.

If you are a female post-doctoral researcher and interested in this mentoring opportunity please forward a 2 page CV and an Expression of Interest........

Emphasis as in the original email. Surely anyone who has appropriate "support and mentorship opportunities" would be more likely to seek out careers in the area - regardless of what's between their legs?

.

iptba

I wasn't sure which thread to post this on:

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:cTQ3vwP1pyUJ:https://www.parenting.com/news-break/9-year-old-could-face-sexual-harassment-charge-love-note+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ie&client=firefox-b-ab

9-Year-Old Could Face Sexual Harassment Charge for Love Note

"My 9-year-old doesn't even know what sexual harassment means," mom says.

The Short of It

Believe it or not, a 9-year-old boy may face sexual harassment charges for passing a love note in class.
The Lowdown

Remember the excitement of getting a note from a crush? Well, those days may be over now that a 9-year-old Florida boy has been sent to the principal's office and threatened with sexual harassment charges for boldy pouring out his feelings to a girl on a piece of loose leaf paper in school.

"He's 9," his mother told ABC's WFTS News, who chose to not list the family's names to maintain their privacy. "What little kid doesn't write love notes?"

And his was pretty innocent in nature. "I like you," wrote the boy inside his drawing of a heart. "I like your hair because it is not sloppy. I like your eyes because they sparkle like diamonds."

The trouble started when his sweet words landed in the wrong hands, and other kids reportedly started teasing the boy about wanting to see the little girl naked.

"That's when the principal proceeded to tell me that it wasn't appropriate that he was writing the note and that if he writes another note, they are going to file sexual harassment charges on my 9-year-old," his mom said.

The school district told ABC Action News they did not threaten to involve authorities, but since the boy wrote multiple "unwanted notes" to his crush, it bordered on harassment.

But his mother argues he did absolutely nothing wrong: "My 9-year-old doesn't even know what sexual harassment means."

"I'm disappointed that the authorities chose to take such a heavy-handed approach," Kristi Davisson, an attorney with children in the same school district, told Yahoo Parenting. She thinks if the school does decide to pursue legal action, the boy's family may have grounds for a countersuit. "The district has had a huge push to stop bullying. Now they may have allowed this child to become a victim of it."
The Upshot

Licensed psychologist Dr. Valerie McClain agrees that this is probably not a case of sexual harassment. But she does encourage parents to use the situation as an opportunity to talk to their child about what is and is not appropriate in a school setting.

"What needs to happen is education needs to be provided about how to relate to this young girl or how to stay away from talking to her, if that's the goal," she told ABC Action News.

iptba

I saw this elsewhere:

Found in my International Treaties textbook. France and Ireland ratified CEDAW, except for the parts that make men and women equal.

https://imgur.com/a/yEWE40H

Not sure how to add images so have given a link to the image.

iptba

Here's the latest batch of gender-related hashtags I have noticed trending for anyone interested (I know some are not)
(Aside: I'm not on Twitter 24/7 of course and don't look back at lists for when I wasn't on)

I'm spreading this out over more than one message has to is a limit to the number of tweets that will show up in a message

#BringIt (possibly in Chicago)
#3percentconf
https://twitter.com/3PercentConf/status/1060567580413476865
https://twitter.com/CanDoWords/status/1060566089875243009
https://twitter.com/TroveAgency/status/1060548285482655744

iptba

#NationalSTEMDay (Not strictly speaking, gender-related, but a number are about gender)
https://twitter.com/mashable/status/1060539766188490753
https://twitter.com/mashable/status/1060553867086233600
https://twitter.com/cawstem/status/1060508060207235072
https://twitter.com/mashable/status/1060585482583719943
https://twitter.com/GirlUp/status/1060524987554127873

iptba

"Leinster House" (Not strictly speaking, gender -related, but most of the tweets seem to be about the "Fearless girl" statue)
https://twitter.com/davidstantontd/status/1060489974280265728
https://twitter.com/DFSDublin/status/1060498732557520896
https://twitter.com/DeptJusticeIRL/status/1060555556350541824
https://twitter.com/josephamadigan/status/1060565437421928448
https://twitter.com/BreathnachLouth/status/1060568305914777601

iptba

#WorkEqual
on the #GenderPayGap
https://twitter.com/fiannafailparty/status/1062383560345243648
https://twitter.com/DFSDublin/status/1062384470886699008
https://twitter.com/labour/status/1062371796228456449
https://twitter.com/helloalicepr/status/1062351879701757954

iptba

The gender agenda: WHO Europe’s new men’s health strategy
22nd October 2018

https://www.healtheuropa.eu/mens-health/88561/

iptba

From the Irish Times

What are the downsides of being a man in 2018?
As International Men’s Day approaches we want to hear from readers
Wed, Nov 14, 2018, 11:31

Monday, November 19th is International Men’s Day. As British commentator Caitlin Moran recently observed, we frequently discuss the downsides of being a woman but what is not discussed as often are the difficulties faced by men. Do people always expect you to have an opinion on football? Are you wary of walking behind a woman on a dark street in case she is fearful? Are you worried about saying the wrong thing in relation to #MeToo? Do you struggle with your mental health? Let us know using this form, and we’ll publish a selection of the responses on International Men’s Day.

What are the downsides of being a man in 2018?

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/what-are-the-downsides-of-being-a-man-in-2018-1.3697449

iptba

Irish Independent:

Michael Kelly: 'Who wants a job based solely on gender? The glass ceiling has to end but talent must be the deciding factor'

https://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/michael-kelly-who-wants-a-job-based-solely-on-gender-the-glass-ceiling-has-to-end-but-talent-must-be-the-deciding-factor-37534560.html

iptba

Here's the latest batch of gender-related hashtags I have noticed trending for anyone interested (I know some are not)
(Aside: I'm not on Twitter 24/7 of course and don't look back at lists for when I wasn't on)

#SLCDublin
@SimmonsLeads
The Simmons Leadership Conference is the preeminent & longest-running women's leadership conference (est. 1979) | #SLCBoston #SLCDublin #SimmonsLEADS

#ThisIsNotConsent

#InternationalMensDay

#BWOTY18
Business Woman of the Year 2018 awards

#WomenInITAwards
Women in IT Awards
@womeninitawards
The world's largest tech gender diversity event. #WomenInITAwards Ireland - Silicon Valley - London - Asia - New York
https://twitter.com/Tech4GoodDublin/status/1065337784171462658
https://twitter.com/VGodolphin/status/1065334926956990464

iptba

Southampton Students' Union president resigns in WW1 mural row

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-england-hampshire-46274283

On 24 October Ms Dawes tweeted: "Mark my words - we're taking down the mural of white men in the uni Senate room, even if I have to paint over it myself."

The mural, painted by Sir William Rothenstein in 1916, was completed as a tribute to students who were killed in World War One and were unable to collect their degrees.

Defunkd

iptba wrote: »

#WorkEqual
on the #GenderPayGap
https://twitter.com/fiannafailparty/status/1062383560345243648
https://twitter.com/DFSDublin/status/1062384470886699008
https://twitter.com/labour/status/1062371796228456449
https://twitter.com/helloalicepr/status/1062351879701757954

Did a bit of googling and I found, on the CSO site, that the average employed male works 39.7 hrs a week and the average employed female works 31.7 hrs a week.(1 day less per week)

So, this wage gap of men getting paid 14% extra than females is due to women doing 20% less work, on average, per week. That's still a +6% gain for not doing anything to deserve it...and still they complain.

I guess it could be professional suicide to highlight that working less hours means less pay?

iptba

Defunkd wrote: »

Did a bit of googling and I found, on the CSO site, that the average employed male works 39.7 hrs a week and the average employed female works 31.7 hrs a week.(1 day less per week)

So, this wage gap of men getting paid 14% extra than females is due to women doing 20% less work, on average, per week. That's still a +6% gain for not doing anything to deserve it...and still they complain.

I guess it could be professional suicide to highlight that working less hours means less pay?

I think the comparisons are rates per hour.

Defunkd

iptba wrote: »

I think the comparisons are rates per hour.

They usually are but how was the average hourly rate determined? A full-time contract will earn more that a part-time contract, which earns more than a temporary contract and so on and so forth...The ESRI acknowledge they group all of the female earners and display it as a % of full-time permanent male income only. They don't factor in part-time, temp, seasonal, etc; for males. I wonder if the CSO use the same incorrect method of determining the gpg?

iptba

Defunkd wrote: »

They usually are but how was the average hourly rate determined? A full-time contract will earn more that a part-time contract, which earns more than a temporary contract and so on and so forth...The ESRI acknowledge they group all of the female earners and display it as a % of full-time permanent male income only. They don't factor in part-time, temp, seasonal, etc; for males. I wonder if the CSO use the same incorrect method of determining the gpg?

My guess, but I haven't looked at the research, is that men may do more unpaid hours on average than women e.g. come in early or stay late to ensure a job gets done. This would need to be factored in to average earnings per hour e.g. if somebody was down as only doing 40 (say) hours per week but on average was doing 50 (say) hours.

iptba

Newstalk just broadcast a documentary entitled "Leading Women". It was funded by the Broadcasting Authority of Ireland. It was all about
supporting women to become leaders.

It mentioned women-only initiatives e.g. with Enterprise Ireland.

I only caught the last 15 or 20 minutes or so, but at least 2 claims were made that women-owned or -initiated businesses do better, while
there were no comparable claims that men-owned or-initiated businesses do better.


https://www.newstalk.com/listen_back/

backspin.

iptba wrote: »

Newstalk just broadcast a documentary entitled "Leading Women". It was funded by the Broadcasting Authority of Ireland. It was all about
supporting women to become leaders.

It mentioned women-only initiatives e.g. with Enterprise Ireland.

I only caught the last 15 or 20 minutes or so, but at least 2 claims were made that women-owned or -initiated businesses do better, while
there were no comparable claims that men-owned or-initiated businesses do better.


https://www.newstalk.com/listen_back/

Its interesting that they can put forward supremacist ideas about women and that's supposedly OK. Its perfectly acceptable to say women are better at something but never to say men are better. Particularly if its an intellectual or business pursuit.

Calhoun

Quite interesting things happening in the courts today. I am very much opposed to rapist walking free ect, however i think this is a valuable lesson about trial by media and is encouraging that the courts are taking such actions.

The presumption of innocence until proven guilty is key to a fair system of law and order if we forget that we are in trouble.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/criminal-court/newspaper-s-reporting-leads-to-collapse-of-rape-trial-1.3710889

Ms Lawlor said the article was one of a number that comprised what was called a “special report”, flagged on the newspaper’s front page.

Her client’s right to a fair trial and a presumption of innocence did not feature in the coverage, she said. She said the coverage suggested there were incorrect or wrongful acquittals in rape trials and included some facts that were identifiably from the case before the court.

backspin.

Calhoun wrote: »

Quite interesting things happening in the courts today. I am very much opposed to rapist walking free ect, however i think this is a valuable lesson about trial by media and is encouraging that the courts are taking such actions.

The presumption of innocence until proven guilty is key to a fair system of law and order if we forget that we are in trouble.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/criminal-court/newspaper-s-reporting-leads-to-collapse-of-rape-trial-1.3710889

Who was the journalist that wrote the offending article. I believe it was an independent news and media article.

drunkmonkey

backspin. wrote: »

Who was the journalist that wrote the offending article. I believe it was an independent news and media article.

Nicola Anderson on Sunday.

This man beating has to stop. Were at the stage now where no man can get a fair trial.

givyjoe

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Nicola Anderson on Sunday.

This man beating has to stop. Were at the stage now where no man can get a fair trial.

Not quite, just this guy on this occasion.

it only seems to be rape cases which evokes the belief that beyond a reasonable doubt is too high a burden of proof.

drunkmonkey

givyjoe wrote: »

Not quite, just this guy on this occasion.

it only seems to be rape cases which evokes the belief that beyond a reasonable doubt is too high a burden of proof.

Why can't it influence other cases, if all men are rapist's until proven innocent and still rapist's anyway which seems to be the current narrative how can they get a fair trial when women who have been influenced by the media can be both judge and jury.
It's too easy make a false statement against someone, your charged with rape before even appearing in court. You've a criminal record. You may be innocent but a lot of damage is done.

It might not be fair but I think we need to start looking at proof before someone is even charged. A statement is not good enough when the court system has so little perjury convictions.

Franz Von Peppercorn

I read her article. Don’t see much in it to stop this trial.