Administrative Officer - Revenue Commissioners

accountant101

Just saw today advert on Revenue Commissioners website for AO in Revenue Commissioners....Just wondering are there any AO's out there working for Revenue who would be willing to share their Day to Day Job descripition and what key qualities they would be looking for when applying...and any other tips would be appreciated !!:)

luckyboy

accountant101 wrote: »

.Just wondering are there any AO's out there working for Revenue who would be willing to share their Day to Day Job descripition and what key qualities they would be looking for when applying...and any other tips would be appreciated !!:)

Hi there. I have worked as an AO in Revenue for almost 6 years. I have mainly worked in audit. On the whole, it is a fantastic place to work, but it can be frustrating at times. Day to day work involves researching cases to select for audit and then getting out there and trying to find money. If you are good at your job, colleagues will flock to you for help but you won't always get credit for this (frustrating).

Can't complain about the working conditions but new entrants may find €30k starting salary a bit low. There are people in my section with PhDs and AITI qualified (same person) but that doesn't necessarily
mean you are rated any higher.

In audit at any rate, you are judged by how much money you bring in. This is less meritocratic than it seems because you can get lucky or unlucky in terms of the cases assigned to you.

All in all though, a nice place to work and fairly far removed from the stereotype of the Civil Service portrayed elsewhere

Denerick

Their job description says a background in business or finance is a prequisite. Should you apply regardless?

leds

I would love to apply for this job for the purpose of gaining more experience but as stated by luckyboy it can become frustrating where credit is not granted on the basis of qualifications and experience would prevent me from applying.

I feel if I was to apply for a job like this I could bring a lot of skills to the table on the basis that I have worked in an Accounting practice for the past 4 years and have prepared Accounts files for inspection by Revenue Audit officers. I am ACA qualified and I have an in depth knowledge of all tax heads VAT,PAYE/PRSI,RCT,CT and Income Tax. I would know which areas require further testing and would be able to identify areas where underdeclaring of tax/tax avoidance is ocurring. My experience alone would result in the requirement for less training etc but if I was to be put at the same level as another individual say for example somebody coming from University with no work experience in this area it would really frustrate me.

I understand that it would be a nice place to work etc but the lack of credit for qualifications and experience is hindering people in my position from applying.

Having looked at the other role on offer a principal officer I feel that I would not have sufficient experience to date to apply for this role.

@Luckyboy - Do you find many qualified Accountants/part qualified Accountants coming in at the Administrative Officer level?

luckyboy

@Luckyboy - Do you find many qualified Accountants/part qualified Accountants coming in at the Administrative Officer level?[/Quote]

Of the intake of about 25 AOs in 2006/7, there were at least 3/4 qualified Accountants. Another couple were AITI qualified. Many had Masters Degrees. 2 more had PhDs.

Of that group, though all were well-qualified, some have fared much better than others. Some of it was luck, in that you could be assigned a high-profile role. Some were held back by vindictive senior officers. Some were quickly promoted to AP. Most are still AOs. Many are now having children etc and have other priorities.

Don't get me wrong. If you can tangibly deliver for them, most managers will love it and will exploit your talents to the full.

It's just that many of the AOs have been exploited by their colleagues, who draw on their talents but then neglect to share the credit. The very crude assessment mechanisms in place facilitate this. You help a colleague pull in €5m in a big audit but - unless your name is on it - the colleague gets all the credit and nobody realises your input. So, in that sense, it can be quite a political environment ...

pog it

Would be far better if those with business and finance backgrounds set up their own business rather than auditing the work of others. Just my opinion.

leds

luckyboy wrote: »

@Luckyboy - Do you find many qualified Accountants/part qualified Accountants coming in at the Administrative Officer level?

Of the intake of about 25 AOs in 2006/7, there were at least 3/4 qualified Accountants. Another couple were AITI qualified. Many had Masters Degrees. 2 more had PhDs.

Of that group, though all were well-qualified, some have fared much better than others. Some of it was luck, in that you could be assigned a high-profile role. Some were held back by vindictive senior officers. Some were quickly promoted to AP. Most are still AOs. Many are now having children etc and have other priorities.

Don't get me wrong. If you can tangibly deliver for them, most managers will love it and will exploit your talents to the full.

It's just that many of the AOs have been exploited by their colleagues, who draw on their talents but then neglect to share the credit. The very crude assessment mechanisms in place facilitate this. You help a colleague pull in €5m in a big audit but - unless your name is on it - the colleague gets all the credit and nobody realises your input. So, in that sense, it can be quite a political environment ...[/QUOTE]


Doesn't seem an environment I would feel comfortable working in. Cant stand office politics and senior management holding people back for their own gain.

@Pog it yes I would agree that individuals with a business and finance background should be setting up there own business's. Me personally I would work in Revenue for 2 - 3 years to increase experience and then go about setting something up on my own. But at the same time there is definetly a need for audit compliance to be a major area for Revenue as a result of tax evasion/avoidance in general by business's. Tax evasion/avoidance is common place among companies these days. I would agree with Revenue's recent approach by increasing the level of inspections/audits. For too many years certain companies have not been paying any taxes at all. Of those companies that are fully compliant it is increasingly difficult for compliant companies to compete those paying nothing at all.

accountant101

Thanks Luckyboy for your response.....I always wanted to work in Revenue.....I have an ACCA Audit qualification and I have many years in practice.....I would think i would have good input on audit cases....
A few questions for you if you won't mind answering:-

1. You say cases are assigned to you...does your manager assign you cases and you look through them for anything odd...or can you not pull cases yourself??

2. It says 41 hours...what exactly are the hours and is there flexitime?

3. The starting salary is €30k....does it increase every year as per the payscale or is it increased on performance?

4. Most of all whats the interview like?????

Thanks

luckyboy

accountant101 wrote: »

Thanks Luckyboy for your response.....I always wanted to work in Revenue.....I have an ACCA Audit qualification and I have many years in practice.....I would think i would have good input on audit cases....
A few questions for you if you won't mind answering:-

1. You say cases are assigned to you...does your manager assign you cases and you look through them for anything odd...or can you not pull cases yourself??

2. It says 41 hours...what exactly are the hours and is there flexitime?

3. The starting salary is €30k....does it increase every year as per the payscale or is it increased on performance?

4. Most of all whats the interview like?????

Thanks

1. All cases are assigned to you by your manager. Sometimes you can ask to have Case X assigned to you. Where it gets political is when a Voluntary Disclosure letter is received. Such cases are usually assigned to those who are well thought of. This creates a very uneven playing field because top management compare us in terms of yield brought in.

2. 41 hours includes lunch and assumes you take 1 hour 15 mins lunch each day. The actual requirement is 34 hours 45 mins per week. There is Flexi time, so you start any time between 8.00am and 10.00am. You finish between 4.00pm and 7.00pm. It's pretty much up to you how to distribute your time. I try to do 7 hours 30 mins or so per day. This builds up Flexi Leave of up to 1.5 days per month.

3. The salary increases annually up the pay scale as long as you are not a diabolical performer (rated 1 out of 5 on your PMDS).

4. It is a long time since I was interviewed. From what I recall, it was a competency based interview with presentation. It was tough but very fair. What they seemed to want then was potential. But nowadays, they may want fully fledged professionals as the state of the labour market at present means they can basically have their pick.

Hope this helps

statss

sounds like a fairly cushy job that wouldn't sap your soul and leaves plenty of time for extra curricular activities, and also gives scope for development.

Zipppy

Question:

Are these AO positions (Audit and ICT) ONLY for RECENT graduates???

Advertisement and application are a wee bit conflicting i reckon.

Could someone with BSc in computing and MSc in computing and many years ICT experience apply ??

Zipppy

Zipppy wrote: »

Question:

Are these AO positions (Audit and ICT) ONLY for RECENT graduates???

Advertisement and application are a wee bit conflicting i reckon.

Could someone with BSc in computing and MSc in computing and many years ICT experience apply ??

Just reading through the advert again last night..

It mentions recent graduates a few times but also refers to applicants who are serving public servants or have a pension from PS or have availed of early retirement / severance from the...so I'm assuming anything goes ??

Itchianus

Zipppy wrote: »

Just reading through the advert again last night..

It mentions recent graduates a few times but also refers to applicants who are serving public servants or have a pension from PS or have availed of early retirement / severance from the...so I'm assuming anything goes ??

I don't think they could discriminate between a recent graduate and a non-recent graduate TBH.

I got my degree in 2003, and worked/trained in practice from then until I did the AO competition in 2008. I wasn't actually qualified at the time of the competition, as I was sitting my last accountancy exam around the same time. So my eligibility was based on my degree, which was 5 years old at the time.

And now that I think of it, of the others I know who came in at the same time as me, several would have had their degrees at least a few years longer than that. Really the degree is just a tick-box exercise; making the panel is all about aceing the aptitude test if there is one, and having at least two strong examples (one on paper, and one in reserve in your head) for each of the competencies...

Itchianus

accountant101 wrote: »

Thanks Luckyboy for your response.....I always wanted to work in Revenue.....I have an ACCA Audit qualification and I have many years in practice.....I would think i would have good input on audit cases....
A few questions for you if you won't mind answering:-

1. You say cases are assigned to you...does your manager assign you cases and you look through them for anything odd...or can you not pull cases yourself??

2. It says 41 hours...what exactly are the hours and is there flexitime?

3. The starting salary is €30k....does it increase every year as per the payscale or is it increased on performance?

4. Most of all whats the interview like?????

Thanks

Hi,

Luckyboy has answered your questions pretty well there, and I can confirm what he says.

To give you a perspective of a recent recruit, your description of yourself could be me. Degree, then trained in practice, and was still slogging away at the final exam at the time of applying in 2008, so I got in by virtue of my degree rather than my accounting qualification.

I'd imagine it could be tougher this time around, with more highly qualified people applying. In 2008 there was an aptitude test, and I think only a very small subset at the top were called for interview (maybe as few as 30/40), with the intention that everyone called would be ranked and put on the panel, unless they effectively talked themselves out of it (hard to see how you could manage it, but I suppose some people just have no communication / interpersonal skills!)

Coming in as a qualified accountant with any breadth of experience in practice and/or industry is a huge advantage. Many of the staff in Revenue have worked in a particular area or couple of areas of taxes for 20-30 years and are wary to stray out of their comfort zone. So if you come from a background where you have managed accounts and audits from start to finish, and are willing to take the bull by the horns, make yourself available for people to come to you with things, you can get your teeth into really interesting and challenging work.

As an AO you may well not have staff reporting to you, and this could be a good or a bad thing depending on your preference. By not having staff eating into your time, you can get more of your own work done and be available to take on projects etc..., but on the down side, if you want to compete for Assistant Principal the competencies are very much based around managerial skills.

It is a great job if you have an aptitude for tax work, and can stomach reading the legislation. You'll have good opportunities for further training and development, and although the money is not great for a qualified accountant, you can at least see what's ahead on the payscale, it's as secure a job as you can get, and AO has always been seen as the fast-track to onward progression. This was borne out by the most recent internal A.P. competition, where an extremely disproportionate amount of those placed in the top end of the panel were AO's rather than HEO's (there was also a gender imbalance that would suggest "positive" discrimination, but then whether or not you see it as positive depends on your own gender!!).

Zipppy

Itchianus wrote: »

I don't think they could discriminate between a recent graduate and a non-recent graduate TBH.

I got my degree in 2003, and worked/trained in practice from then until I did the AO competition in 2008. I wasn't actually qualified at the time of the competition, as I was sitting my last accountancy exam around the same time. So my eligibility was based on my degree, which was 5 years old at the time.

And now that I think of it, of the others I know who came in at the same time as me, several would have had their degrees at least a few years longer than that. Really the degree is just a tick-box exercise; making the panel is all about aceing the aptitude test if there is one, and having at least two strong examples (one on paper, and one in reserve in your head) for each of the competencies...

Thanks for that

I actually have quite a few years of 'experience' but only passed ny MSc in 2009..

Sure I'll pop in an application and see what happens !!

delricyo

Forms handed in just in the nick of time

Now, its just a case of playing the waiting game for the next couple of weeks !

delricyo

Anyone hear anything yet ? Or did anyone get an indication of how long the shortlisting takes ?

litup

I'd say it'll be a while yet. 4 seperate competitions closed on the same day so the HR department have a lot to get through.

barneystinson

delricyo wrote: »

Anyone hear anything yet ? Or did anyone get an indication of how long the shortlisting takes ?

AFAIK the shortlisting will be done in the next 2 weeks, so it's unlikely anyone will hear anything until the end of the month... (I heard a rumour today that there was a mad number of applications for the Open Assistant Principal competition, over 1,500. If that's true, it wouldn't be surprising me if there was a similar number for AO).

IFSC101

According to the Job description they do support study leave, do any of you know if Revenue actually have a generous study leave policy? as I will have to do my part 3 tax exams next year.

Thanks

luckyboy

IFSC101 wrote: »

According to the Job description they do support study leave, do any of you know if Revenue actually have a generous study leave policy? as I will have to do my part 3 tax exams next year.

Thanks

I have done Parts 2 and 3 of the tax exams whilst working in Revenue. From a study leave perspective for Part 3, the way it works is that if you are pursuing a course for which Revenue has agreed to refund your fees (ie a relevant course), then you are entitled to 10 days paid study leave for the "final year" of the course (to which Part 3 equates). You also get paid exam leave to physically do the exams. If you want any more than that, you have to take it out of your own (paid) holiday entitlement of 25 days (for AOs, starting off). I don't know whether unpaid study leave is an option, but I would presume that it is. Personally, I took about 6 weeks off for my Part 3s, which took a big chunk out of my annual leave for that year

IFSC101

Thanks, I just need to hope that barneystinson predictions of 1500 applications, is not correct J. And Hopefully I will be in with a chance.

delricyo

It probably depends on which competition you applied for ! I can't see 1500 applying for the AP comp. Perhaps that amount may have applied for the AO

But like you, I hope for a small number of AO applications

barneystinson

delricyo wrote: »

It probably depends on which competition you applied for ! I can't see 1500 applying for the AP comp.

I hope it ain't true too, for my own sake, but I have it from a good source

But having said that I know of clerical officers with no formal accounting, auditing or taxes technical experience / qualification who've applied for BOTH AO & AP, people who've applied for and failed to get promotion to EO level... so I'd say if the numbers are as high as I heard, it's partly because there's a load of unqualified / ineligible applicants.

litup

barneystinson wrote: »

delricyo wrote: »

It probably depends on which competition you applied for ! I can't see 1500 applying for the AP comp.

I hope it ain't true too, for my own sake, but I have it from a good source

But having said that I know of clerical officers with no formal accounting, auditing or taxes technical experience / qualification who've applied for BOTH AO & AP, people who've applied for and failed to get promotion to EO level... so I'd say if the numbers are as high as I heard, it's partly because there's a load of unqualified / ineligible applicants.

I spoke to someone who did the screening for the AP job. Just shy of 500 applications, 75/80 are being asked to interview. Around 80% of applicants had a relevant professional qualification.

They weren't involved in the AO application, so I've no info on that I'm afraid.

barneystinson

litup wrote: »

barneystinson wrote: »

delricyo wrote: »

It probably depends on which competition you applied for ! I can't see 1500 applying for the AP comp.

I hope it ain't true too, for my own sake, but I have it from a good source

But having said that I know of clerical officers with no formal accounting, auditing or taxes technical experience / qualification who've applied for BOTH AO & AP, people who've applied for and failed to get promotion to EO level... so I'd say if the numbers are as high as I heard, it's partly because there's a load of unqualified / ineligible applicants.

I spoke to someone who did the screening for the AP job. Just shy of 500 applications, 75/80 are being asked to interview. Around 80% of applicants had a relevant professional qualification.

They weren't involved in the AO application, so I've no info on that I'm afraid.

Aw crap I had meant to come back and rectify my previous post; you and I must have been talking to the same person Litup, as I heard exactly the same numbers... I think they only told me 1,500 to wind me up first time around!

IFSC101

litup wrote: »

I spoke to someone who did the screening for the AP job. Just shy of 500 applications, 75/80 are being asked to interview. Around 80% of applicants had a relevant professional qualification.

They weren't involved in the AO application, so I've no info on that I'm afraid.

Did thay say when then inted to revert to the applicants.

barneystinson

IFSC101 wrote: »

litup wrote: »

I spoke to someone who did the screening for the AP job. Just shy of 500 applications, 75/80 are being asked to interview. Around 80% of applicants had a relevant professional qualification.

They weren't involved in the AO application, so I've no info on that I'm afraid.

Did thay say when then inted to revert to the applicants.

AFAIK the shortlisting has been done, so should be this week, or next week at latest. (I'm talking about AP competition).

JOCDUB

Did everyone on here receive an email to confirm there application was received?

barneystinson

JOCDUB wrote: »

Did everyone on here receive an email to confirm there application was received?

I didn't anyway, did you? I'd be surprised if they would be bothering issuing that volume of acknowledgement emails, given that they have to contact everyone with a yay or a nay within a few weeks anyway...

IFSC101

JOCDUB wrote: »

Did everyone on here receive an email to confirm there application was received?

I did just to say my application was recived. But I had my application in very early. They probibly intended to email everyone and then when the saw the tusinmi of applications thay probibly just stoped.