ESB Great Electric Drive

extremetaz

Deleted User wrote: »

I mean if it were a requirement I would have been prepared and could have had a better chance so it should not have been based on something that was not initially required!

Fair enough I don't live in a town with a charger, and most people if not all were probably selected who do little mileage and could probably get away with charging from home anyway.

I can see where you're coming from alright but I genuinely hope that isn't the case.

I know for a fact they got something like 11,000 applications!!

So I really hope that the folk they chose were chosen with diversity of the role of the car in mind.

I'd be horribly dissapointed to hear that they'll all city dwellers or low mileage drivers - as far as I'm concerned that would defeat the point of the exercise entirely.

paddy147

How is the electricity produced to run these cars?

Is it from wind power or from turf/coal burning power stations??

If its from coal and turf burning..then it kinda defeats the purpose of an electric car and being eco friendly,when you think about it.

paddy147

paddy147 wrote: »

How is trhe electricity produced to run these cars?

Is it from wind power or from turf/coal burning power stations??

If its from coal and turf burning..then it kinda defeats the purpose of an electric car and being eco friendly,when you think about it.

Hi Paddy,

It comes from a mixture, but a lot of our energy at off peak comes from wind and believe it or not it's far more efficient to charge at night because the power stations have to be kept going to keep them ready for demand.

So it's not completely accurate to say e.v's are not as good, they are good because they make use of the energy that is otherwise wasted.

Also the other thing is wind has to be turned off at night or any time of low demand, so the more e.v's charging at night the better we can use the wind power available, but the inter-connector to the U.K will help with that also, and we can buy their 0 emission Nuclear.

One day we will have to realise we need to be energy dependent and go Nuclear, using Thorium. I'm a big believer in L.F.T.R technology and we need to invest in more research. Nuclear is the future, renewables can only ever meet a tiny part of our total future needs. And we all know where energy prices are going. France pays less than half we do per Kw/Hr of electricity because most of theirs comes from Nuclear!

One day we will realise that it's better to make our own than get someone to invest all the money and take all the risks, in the end it will only make us pay ever increasing costs, already people are feeling the pain and it will get worse!

delad

Deleted User wrote: »

Hi Paddy,

Also the other thing is wind has to be turned off at night or any time of low demand, so the more e.v's charging at night the better we can use the wind power available, but the inter-connector to the U.K will help with that also, and we can buy their 0 emission Nuclear.

Is Ireland actually going to be buying nuclear energy from the UK or are you saying its just a possibility?

Deleted User wrote: »

One day we will have to realise we need to be energy dependent and go Nuclear, using Thorium. I'm a big believer in L.F.T.R technology and we need to invest in more research. Nuclear is the future, renewables can only ever meet a tiny part of our total future needs. And we all know where energy prices are going. France pays less than half we do per Kw/Hr of electricity because most of theirs comes from Nuclear!

How can you say renewables can only ever meet a tiny part of our future needs when a quarter of the electricity that airtricity generates is from the use of renewable sources. And we've only just begun to scratch the surface of renewable energy. Renewable technologies are getting more and more efficient and more cost effective every few months.

The issue with storing renewable energy has been resolved by using pumped hydro electric storage.

coylemj

delad wrote: »

Is Ireland actually going to be buying nuclear energy from the UK or are you saying its just a possibility?

No, they're going to install a device on the interconnector to block nuclear-generated electricity.

delad

delad wrote: »

Is Ireland actually going to be buying nuclear energy from the UK or are you saying its just a possibility?



How can you say renewables can only ever meet a tiny part of our future needs when a quarter of the electricity that airtricity generates is from the use of renewable sources. And we've only just begun to scratch the surface of renewable energy. Renewable technologies are getting more and more efficient and more cost effective every few months.

The issue with storing renewable energy has been resolved by using pumped hydro electric storage.

Unfortunately all you hear in wind energy is a "total" of XXX GW capacity installed, It's meaningless.

What we need to know of the 160 TW/hrs or so a year of our electricity requirements, how much comes from renewables ?

But people seem to forget something major and that's the energy needed for heating and transport, that's incredibly significant.

What we should be talking about is our total energy requirement and not just our current electricity requirement.

I can guarantee you our wind capacity is a minute fraction of that total energy need, this is the major difference.

Nuclear using Thorium in L.F.T.R has one of the best potentials from a safety aspect at generating all our energy requirements both now and into the future.

Wind energy is far from cheap and Thorium is as abundant as the wind, Norway alone has over 10,000 years of it.

Thorium can give us cheap electricity to heat our homes and for electricity and transport, I.E to make Hydrogen for heavy goods vehicles. Not to mention all the thousands of square miles of turbines it would eliminate.

1 Tonne of Thorium is = to 3,5 million tonnes of coal, and emits less than 1% the waste of current reactors when using l.F.T.R.

The possibilities are endless.

jackbauer

I posted this before but feel it needs repating. The so called "long tailpipe" argument against electic cars is a plain nonsense and based on a false premise. In the united states the process of refinement and delivery of one gallon of automotive petrol to a station forecourt requires 7.5kWh of electricity. Where did that electricity come from ? but it gets better of course. An average EV (oem or conversion) will typically return about 300Wh/mile. So on the electricity required to produce that gallon of fuel an ev could travel 25 miles.

So it makes no difference if the electricity comes from a coal buring power station or a solar panel. Lastly , its reasonably easy to produce electricity at home. Not so easy to produce fossil fuel.

Jimbob 83

Yea but would YOU like to live enar a Nuclear power plant ?

I know i wouldn't

jackbauer

jackbauer wrote: »

I posted this before but feel it needs repating. The so called "long tailpipe" argument against electic cars is a plain nonsense and based on a false premise. In the united states the process of refinement and delivery of one gallon of automotive petrol to a station forecourt requires 7.5kWh of electricity. Where did that electricity come from ? but it gets better of course. An average EV (oem or conversion) will typically return about 300Wh/mile. So on the electricity required to produce that gallon of fuel an ev could travel 25 miles.

So it makes no difference if the electricity comes from a coal buring power station or a solar panel. Lastly , its reasonably easy to produce electricity at home. Not so easy to produce fossil fuel.

You mean about 3kw/hrs per mile. that's the average consumption of the Leaf anyway. Or my leccy bike has a consumption of about 50 WATT hrs per mile, @ 40 mph! beat that!

Well I said it before and I'll say it again, solar does have potential in Ireland and wind for domestic users, but of course the government refuse to give any grants for Solar P.V and wind installations. They choose instead to give it all to the wind energy companies who still will be paid even if they are not generating.

You connect to the grid and during the day when you are out and can't charge you sent your power to the grid and the E.S.B becomes your big free storage battery and when you come home during the day you buy it back at night rate or it costs nothing depending on what you generate!

Jimbob 83

Jimbob 83 wrote: »

Yea but would YOU like to live enar a Nuclear power plant ?

I know i wouldn't

Not the current generation, no. But you are not that far away from one anyway.

The L.F.T.R reactors have 0 chance of meltdown, and there is no risk of air born contamination because the fuel in in a liquid form and there are no high pressures.

The question you got to ask, how much do you want to pay for your total energy needs ?

France pays less than half what we do for electricity, and I bet a lot use electricity for heat that we do.

The French wil lasso be able to drive on very cheap electricity.

Next time you are filling your car, or your heating oil tank, or paying your electricity bill ask yourself, how much more can I take ?

extremetaz

coylemj wrote: »

No, they're going to install a device on the interconnector to block nuclear-generated electricity.

:D;)

I lol'd.

jackbauer wrote: »

I posted this before but feel it needs repating. The so called "long tailpipe" argument against electic cars is a plain nonsense and based on a false premise. ...

Absolutely correct - "well to wheel" the worst case EV scenario is coal for power generation on an inefficient grid (mid-USA basically), and even that makes par with fossils.

EV are cleaner - FACT!!

Deleted User wrote: »

Well I said it before and I'll say it again, solar does have potential in Ireland and wind for domestic users

Solar thermal I'll grant you, solar PV though, I remain unconvinced.

...and as for micro wind generation, unless you've storage or an immediate use for the energy generated, then whilst it's both potentially useful and "morally gratifying" (:rolleyes:), it's not even close to financially viable. Particularly not with the measly 3kW units which are on the consumer market, and which can't be placed above 11meters without planning permissions.

Hell, even the 6kW agri version would struggle to pay for itself on all but the best sites and with the highest load factors.

extremetaz

oh - I also disagree on the Nuclear solution (if you'll pardon the pun).

Nuclear is certainly a part of the long term grid profile - no question about it.
In fact, we shouldn't even be prioritising phasing it out in my opinion.

However - it's a base load technology which is entirely unsuited to load following and it's this upper 60% of the grid profile which causes the problems wrt emissions etc... (even fossil based base load is 80%+ efficient)

Brown generating plant need to be phased out and replaced with wind/wave/solar/hydro/biomass/biogas/etc.... and mass storage. Leave Nuclear in the mix for now - it works and it's relatively clean (although the "cost effective" line is a complete myth).

You'll note I did not include biofuel (bioethanol etc...) in the mix above - I may revise this stance with the emergence of 3rd gen biofuel generation tech (although I doubt it), but for now, it's an absolute disaster of a concept.

Weylin

Shane732 wrote: »

Hmmm.... Could you just park it up for the year and use it to p*ss in?

what a backward,ignorant bollix you are....still driving your big engined gas guzzler...get a life you saddo........

TestTransmission

Weylin wrote: »

what a backward,ignorant bollix you are....still driving your big engined gas guzzler...get a life you saddo........

2 week ban

Jimbob 83

Jimbob 83 wrote: »

Yea but would YOU like to live enar a Nuclear power plant ?

I know i wouldn't

I would, I'd work in one too.

Believe it or not but coal power stations emit more radiation than a Nuclear plant!!!

Coal power stations emit more harmful emissions than Nuclear powerstations which are emissions free!

TestTransmission

TestTransmission wrote: »

2 week ban

Funny!

extremetaz

extremetaz wrote: »

Solar thermal I'll grant you, solar PV though, I remain unconvinced.

...and as for micro wind generation, unless you've storage or an immediate use for the energy generated, then whilst it's both potentially useful and "morally gratifying" (:rolleyes:), it's not even close to financially viable. Particularly not with the measly 3kW units which are on the consumer market, and which can't be placed above 11meters without planning permissions.

Hell, even the 6kW agri version would struggle to pay for itself on all but the best sites and with the highest load factors.

Yes wind energy is expensive because the turbines are expensive and the installers rip you off, however you can install it yourself. It's not rocket science.

As for storage, well as I said in an earlier post, this is where the E.S.B comes in. They are your big "cheap" storage battery.You sell to the grid during the day and buy it back at night rate.

If you have an E.V you make better use of the energy.

In fact the payback of domestic wind or solar P.V is many times quicker if you consider the cost of petrol or diesel as fuel.

And I don't agree that solar thermal is all it's cracked up to be because while you may benefit in summer your heating will heat the water in winter, so the pay back is much longer.

paddy147

The ESB claim that 11,000 people interested in the electric cars shows that people really want to embrace the electric cars in Ireland.

Absolute bollix........it was 11,000 people looking for a new car for the year for FREE.

paddy147

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes wind energy is expensive because the turbines are expensive and the installers rip you off, however you can install it yourself. It's not rocket science.

As for storage, well as I said in an earlier post, this is where the E.S.B comes in. They are your big "cheap" storage battery.You sell to the grid during the day and buy it back at night rate.

If you have an E.V you make better use of the energy.

In fact the payback of domestic wind or solar P.V is many times quicker if you consider the cost of petrol or diesel as fuel.

And I don't agree that solar thermal is all it's cracked up to be because while you may benefit in summer your heating will heat the water in winter, so the pay back is much longer.

I get constant hot water 24/7 with my solar system.

I dont use my gas central heating to heat the water at all,even in the winter.The solar works an absolute treat.

delad

paddy147 wrote: »

I get constant hot water 24/7 with my solar system.

I dont use my gas central heating to heat the water at all,even in the winter.The solar works an absolute treat.

how much did that cost, and how much to install it?

delad

paddy147 wrote: »

The ESB claim that 11,000 people interested in the electric cars shows that people really want to embrace the electric cars in Ireland.

Absolute bollix........it was 11,000 people looking for a new car for the year for FREE.

There's huge interest in electric cars, must people like myself are just waiting until they have about 30 more miles of range, and waiting for more fast chargers to go live before we make the move. 2014 will be the game changing year, it will also be the year when 2nd hand leafs start flooding the market. By 2018 the majority of new cars sold in Ireland will be electric.

paddy147

delad wrote: »

how much did that cost, and how much to install it?

4,400 euro all in.

SEAI Grant of 880 euro (including BER).

paddy147

delad wrote: »

There's huge interest in electric cars, must people like myself are just waiting until they have about 30 more miles of range, and waiting for more fast chargers to go live before we make the move. 2014 will be the game changing year, it will also be the year when 2nd hand leafs start flooding the market. By 2018 the majority of new cars sold in Ireland will be electric.

So you are stating that in a little over 5 years time that more electric cars will be sold in Ireland than petrol or diesel cars??

Where are you getting your information from,to say that?

delad

delad wrote: »

There's huge interest in electric cars, must people like myself are just waiting until they have about 30 more miles of range, and waiting for more fast chargers to go live before we make the move. 2014 will be the game changing year, it will also be the year when 2nd hand leafs start flooding the market. By 2018 the majority of new cars sold in Ireland will be electric.

Flooding the market? What constitutes a flood?

paddy147

paddy147 wrote: »

I get constant hot water 24/7 with my solar system.

I dont use my gas central heating to heat the water at all,even in the winter.The solar works an absolute treat.

That's the smallest solar thermal panel I've ever seen !

But isnt the gas boiler connected through the hot water cylinder? I can't see much of a saving if your heating is on it won't cost much to heat the hot water.

Where as solar P.V would save you more because you can use it more including to heat water if you wish.

paddy147

paddy147 wrote: »

4,400 euro all in.

SEAI Grant of 880 euro (including BER).

That seems expensive if all it does is heat water, another few grand would have got you at least 4kw/p solar P.V which is far more useful.

I mean for us to,spend that on hot water it would take years to pay back if the immersion is on for 30 mins per day that's a cost of 24 cent per day or 168 per week for all our hot water needs for the time we don't need the heating on for about 5 months of the year.

So for all our hot water needs for the 5 months or so by electric costs about 33 euro's, the oil heating does the rest in winter. And that's on day rate leccy.

So if we divide 33 euros into 4400 euros we get something like 144 years to pay back at that price :eek:

Now if you have solar P.V you can heat water + meet all your electricity demands, for us the payback would be too long, based on another persons experience with just a 3 kw/p system cost him about 9,000 euros, based on our electricity usage we pay 600 a year or so for leccy taking 15 years to pay back.

I must see how he is getting on with it and how much he has generated.

If you got a leccy car then the payback could be as little as 5 or 6 years with a 5kw /p system costing about 11 grand over petrol or diesel.

Solar does have potential in Ireland, despite our generally overcast skies we got long summer daylight hours and some sunshine in between.

paddy147

paddy147 wrote: »

So you are stating that in a little over 5 years time that more electric cars will be sold in Ireland than petrol or diesel cars??

Where are you getting your information from,to say that?

If the price is right I can really see that happening, petrol and diesel might be over the 2 euro barrier by then.

But sure enough what will happen if people suddenly stop buying super highly taxed cars, and fuel ?

We know they can't tax leccy the same as fuel because there are rules against that.

More tolls for sure

We all know the M7 motorway is getting a toll once the 3 lane upgrade is finished from Newbridge to the big ball. That will really add to the pain of driving to work.

Or will the introduction of property tax and water charges be enough that for once the motorist can have some cheap motoring ?

They'll more than likely introduce a very hefty electric car tax, both at purchase and motor tax wise. I believe there is something nice in the upcoming budget for folks running electric cars too, its tiny but the OTT reaction will be class if they bring it in.
Anyone thinking property tax etc will allow folks to run EVa cheaply longterm is delirious.

RoverJames

RoverJames wrote: »

They'll more than likely introduce a very hefty electric car tax, both at purchase and motor tax wise. I believe there is something nice in the upcoming budget for folks running electric cars too, its tiny but the OTT reaction will be class if they bring it in.
Anyone thinking property tax etc will allow folks to run EVa cheaply longterm is delirious.

Even if they do introduce vrt for e.v's in the budget , which is unlikely but even so they will still be far cheaper to run than an ice car.