ESB Great Electric Drive

extremetaz

extremetaz wrote: »

.......... 115km is a reliable upper limit for normal steady driving with the AC on.

What would the range be on the motorway at 120kph with the air con on?

extremetaz wrote: »

..............

My commute is 73km door-to-door, each way (so 146km total) ,daily. It starts from around the Kinnegad area and I work in the city center.

The Leaf gets in with about 50km to spare, on the way home then I stop off at the DC quickcharge at Park West for 20minutes, and then I'm away home happy as larry............

Surely before you bought it you didn't envisage having to charge the thing on the way home?

extremetaz

RoverJames wrote: »

What would the range be on the motorway at 120kph with the air con on?

approx 80km would be reliable - there are short stints at 80 & 100 at either end, so that's as close as I can estimate to a full charge at 120 - basically, if I set the cruise control at the speed limit for all permissable zones, then on my journey to work I arrive with about 23km to spare (where I'd usually have closer to 50km as mentioned).

RoverJames wrote: »

Surely before you bought it you didn't envisage having to charge the thing on the way home?

and why is that exactly?

as it happens, I did, and was fully aware of all the charge points in the locality, the distances to them, the traffic conditions surrounding them, and the time required at them. It was actually my comfort in this very knowledge that pushed me over the line as it were. :rolleyes:

Any of either the Park west, Glasnevin Topaz, and Hutton & Meade options are readily accessible to me depending on my required route home, and I have the luxury of enough residual range in the commute to make it to any, or even all of them (in the event of a failure), as I require.

And all of the above is merely a workaround in advance of the planned charge facilities in my workplace.

extremetaz

extremetaz wrote: »

......




and why is that exactly?

....

I can't imagine anyone being happy with adding the guts of half an hour to their spin home everyday to charge up their car, seemingly you are, anyone I know is quite keen to get home as soon as possible. I just can't fathom it personally.
I'm surprised it can't manage there and back home on the night charge too. I'm also surprised at the low range on the motorway.
To me it seems you wanted a new car, couldn't really afford it so bought one that has huge limitations.

extremetaz

RoverJames wrote: »

To me it seems you wanted a new car, couldn't really afford it so bought one that has huge limitations.

You would be well advised to stop attempting these presumptions - you're not only wayyy off the mark but I find the implications you're making regarding my character more than a little insulting (first naivety and now fickleness).

For the record, I don't usually do "new" anything, I'm highly technically adept (electronic engineer by trade, second generation amateur mechanic) so I usually buy secondhand and at a very good price. This is the most expensive car I've ever bought by a factor of 2x - so funds for the purchase weren't any sort of issue.

The truth of the matter is that it's a balance of actual running costs (repayments + fuel). The leaf is currently leaving me with an extra €60-70 per week in my pocket, for that I'll put up with a 20 minute stop on the way home.

extremetaz

RoverJames wrote: »

I'm also surprised at the low range on the motorway.

I don't understand what's surprising about that - given the 115km range I quoted in standard use, what exactly is even remotely surprising about it?

extremetaz

extremetaz wrote: »

You would be well advised to stop attempting these presumptions ..

.......

Why would I be ?
you said you wanted to change cars but couldn't afford petrol costs and the loan. I'm not overly bothered by what you do for a living, nor does it confirm or otherwise how technically adept you are.

extremetaz wrote: »

I don't understand what's surprising about that - given the 115km range I quoted in standard use, what exactly is even remotely surprising about it?

what's surprising is that it is very poor, so too the standard use range, don't Nissan claim much better?.

RoverJames

RoverJames wrote: »

Why would I be ?
you said you wanted to change cars but couldn't afford petrol costs and the loan. I'm not overly bothered by what you do for a living, nor does it confirm or otherwise how technically adept you are.


what's surprising is that it is very poor, so too the standard use range, don't Nissan claim much better?.

No Nissan do not quote more on commutes like this at 65-70 mph.

Most leaf owners buy the car because they know all about the range they can expect.

I would probably find it hard to make my 130 km commute, if I got a permanent contract out of this job after a while I would think about the Leaf or Zoe. I would be asking the company if they would install a charge point.

The building consumes 14.5 Mega Watts so I can't imaging another 3.5 kw for 4 hours or so would matter to them!

If companies can be convinced to install chargers that would open up a whole new world for electric cars. The fact still remains that for the majority of people the Leaf's range is more than suitable!

Wait until leaf II in 2014 and it may have an extra 30 or 40 miles range, maybe more, battery prices are falling so fast that they might even put a 40kw/hr battery in it by then for a real 120 miles at 70 mph!

It is estimated that in 2015 the current Leaf battery will cost Nissan 4000 Euro's or usd not sure on that but it's either one or the other, good news for 2nd hand buyers possibly ?

Shane732

extremetaz wrote: »

approx 80km would be reliable - there are short stints at 80 & 100 at either end, so that's as close as I can estimate to a full charge at 120 - basically, if I set the cruise control at the speed limit for all permissable zones, then on my journey to work I arrive with about 23km to spare (where I'd usually have closer to 50km as mentioned).




and why is that exactly?

as it happens, I did, and was fully aware of all the charge points in the locality, the distances to them, the traffic conditions surrounding them, and the time required at them. It was actually my comfort in this very knowledge that pushed me over the line as it were. :rolleyes:

Any of either the Park west, Glasnevin Topaz, and Hutton & Meade options are readily accessible to me depending on my required route home, and I have the luxury of enough residual range in the commute to make it to any, or even all of them (in the event of a failure), as I require.

And all of the above is merely a workaround in advance of the planned charge facilities in my workplace.

Ignoring the fact that I'd find it extremely hard to move away from a petrol car which it a reasonably high performance car this post would massively put me off buying a Leaf even if I was considering one.

The thoughts of having to pull into a station and hang around for 20 minutes everyday on my way home would do my nut in. It's not something I would be willing to do. My car has a relatively short range due to the 3.0l petrol engine but I still get 270 miles + out of a tank.

I'm kind of lost in relation to your comments regarding having circa €60 per week extra. You spent €25k-€30k to save €60 a week - is that correct? You have a car that's sitting idle at home, which I assume you are insuring and taxing on an annual basis. How much fuel would you have been able to buy with €25k?

One other point - if you were to apply a charge out rate to the 20 minutes a day you're losing for a €60 saving per week would give you a ridiculously low charge out. 1.666 minutes for a €1!

Shane732

Shane732 wrote: »

Ignoring the fact that I'd find it extremely hard to move away from a petrol car which it a reasonably high performance car this post would massively put me off buying a Leaf even if I was considering one.

The thoughts of having to pull into a station and hang around for 20 minutes everyday on my way home would do my nut in. It's not something I would be willing to do. My car has a relatively short range due to the 3.0l petrol engine but I still get 270 miles + out of a tank.

I'm kind of lost in relation to your comments regarding having circa €60 per week extra. You spent €25k-€30k to save €60 a week - is that correct? You have a car that's sitting idle at home, which I assume you are insuring and taxing on an annual basis. How much fuel would you have been able to buy with €25k?

One other point - if you were to apply a charge out rate to the 20 minutes a day you're losing for a €60 saving per week would give you a ridiculously low charge out. 1.666 minutes for a €1!

Don't worry by the time you want an e.v range won't really be an issue and Nissan are not sure if the 10 min charging will be available by Gen II yet.

Currently I'd put my money in Zoe! More range, more efficient, However having no mileage restrictions appeals to me more, and not paying for battery leasing!

Again if you can charge at work, the more people that request charging the more companies might install them!

Bruthal

Shane732 wrote: »

One other point - if you were to apply a charge out rate to the 20 minutes a day you're losing for a €60 saving per week would give you a ridiculously low charge out. 1.666 minutes for a €1!

Would you pay €60 tolls a week to save 20 minutes a day? Some will, some wont. I wouldn`t anyway.

Not much point in working it out as a charge out call rate anyway. That`s just silly.

Shane732

robbie7730 wrote: »

Would you pay €60 tolls a week to save 20 minutes a day? Some will, some wont. I wouldn`t anyway.

Not much point in working it out as a charge out call rate anyway. That`s just silly.

Normally pay 2 tolls a day each way, so yes I would and I do.

It wasn't a call rate I was working out. I was working it out in the sense of a professional charge out rate. I know it's a irrelevant but just interesting to see how much the time loss equates to and the only thing I have to apply it to would be a professional charge out rate.

Bruthal

Shane732 wrote: »

Normally pay 2 tolls a day each way, so yes I would and I do.

And this saves you 10 minutes each way?

Shane732

Deleted User wrote: »

Don't worry by the time you want an e.v range won't really be an issue and Nissan are not sure if the 10 min charging will be available by Gen II yet.

Currently I'd put my money in Zoe! More range, more efficient, However having no mileage restrictions appeals to me more, and not paying for battery leasing!

Again if you can charge at work, the more people that request charging the more companies might install them!

I reckon that it shouldn't be much of an issue getting the large companies to install the charge points. Getting SME's to do it might be more difficult.

Like you say when and if it comes to buying an EV the range will hopefully be much extended.

Increased tolls are in the making with proposed tolls on the M9, N7 around naas and seemingly I heard they want to reduce the current M50 toll and introduce more on the M50, which is fair considering a lot of people use the whole motorway!

I would bet the N7 tool around Naas will be introduced when the 3 lanes are put from the Big Ball to Newbridge ?

Newlands Cross is being done too, so they will probably wait until all the works are finished!

Shane732

robbie7730 wrote: »

And this saves you 10 minutes each way?

The second toll saves me less than 10 minutes, the M50 saves me more than 10 minutes.

Bruthal

Shane732 wrote: »

The second toll saves me less than 10 minutes, the M50 saves me more than 10 minutes.

Many would avoid €60 tolls a week if the cost was 10 minutes each way.

Shane732

robbie7730 wrote: »

Many would avoid €60 tolls a week if the cost was 10 minutes each way.

I appreciate that.

I'm lucky in that I don't really have to worry about it.

maggy_thatcher

Personally, I'd wonder how many people with 20 minutes to kill just sitting at a charging point end up going to the coffee shop to buy a drink while they wait, negating a big chunk of the savings there and then

Shane732

maggy_thatcher wrote: »

Personally, I'd wonder how many people with 20 minutes to kill just sitting at a charging point end up going to the coffee shop to buy a drink while they wait, negating a big chunk of the savings there and then

I'm sure it happens. I'd imagine that if you were doing it on a daily basis you'd have some sort of routine in that you'd read the paper in the car or a book on your ipad etc...

Alanstrainor

Whenever I've thought about these cars and the advantages they have, it's always been as an urban run around that would do you for short/medium journeys. And it would always be a second car in a home. Even for me, who does very little driving, I could see situations where the range would just be too much of a limiting factor to justify owning one. And that's without considering the cost involved in purchasing one.

Zubeneschamali

I think two car households will be first to consider the Leaf. We have a 5 speed Mini Cooper as a second car, which is not a very suitable motorway mile muncher. A Leaf could do that job: school runs, a short commute, shops and home.

It's 4K dearer. You'd make that back in running costs eventually, but this would take longer for a second car as mileage tends to be lower. We'd do about 5000 p.a. miles in the Mini and Nissan reckon we'd save €700 a year, so that 4K would be about 6 years worth.

The Leaf is well kitted out. You could spend the whole 4K difference on extras for the Mini, or just get a Cooper S and have more fun: at this mileage mpg is not a big issue.

UnknownSpecies

I applied there. I have literally no idea why though. In ye're opinions, would there be much difference between a Leaf and a 1.6 DOHC VTEC? :P

extremetaz

Shane732 wrote: »

I'm kind of lost in relation to your comments regarding having circa €60 per week extra. You spent €25k-€30k to save €60 a week - is that correct? You have a car that's sitting idle at home, which I assume you are insuring and taxing on an annual basis. How much fuel would you have been able to buy with €25k?

I've covered all of this in this thread and I'm not about to go into it in any detail again. Suffice to say this is not about "saving" money - every car is a net cost. It's about reducing weekly outgoings. Bottom line: the purchase of the Leaf leaves me with €60+ in my pocket at the end of every week net of ESB & Finance costs.

maggy_thatcher wrote: »

Personally, I'd wonder how many people with 20 minutes to kill just sitting at a charging point end up going to the coffee shop to buy a drink while they wait, negating a big chunk of the savings there and then

Shane732 wrote: »

I'm sure it happens. I'd imagine that if you were doing it on a daily basis you'd have some sort of routine in that you'd read the paper in the car or a book on your ipad etc...

Bingo - it's actually quite a refreshing little slice of quiet time on the way home. As for the tea etc... it's always an option and one I will make use of occasionally - but even if I did it every time, it's still cheaper than the €14 in petrol which the commute used to require.

Alanstrainor wrote: »

Whenever I've thought about these cars and the advantages they have, it's always been as an urban run around that would do you for short/medium journeys. And it would always be a second car in a home. Even for me, who does very little driving, I could see situations where the range would just be too much of a limiting factor to justify owning one. And that's without considering the cost involved in purchasing one.

Absolutely correct. We still have a second car (the '01 Megane I mentioned before) and wouldn't be without it. However, you'd be amazed at how little use it's gotten since we got the Leaf - but for us at least, it definitely would not be an option to be without it.

Having said that, just yestreday, the wee short/medium runabout that it is got us from just north of Kinnegad, to the Outlet at Kildare town, and back, with stops to the vet in Edenderry each way, and Lidl on the way home, all with the AC on and no efforts at conservative driving - on a single charge, and with 14km to spare.

dorgasm wrote: »

I applied there. I have literally no idea why though. In ye're opinions, would there be much difference between a Leaf and a 1.6 DOHC VTEC? :P

Powerwise, not as much as you might think, 107BHP whenever you put the foot down (yes this is less, but it's there from a dead stop and you don't have to redline the motor to get it so that does a lot to reduce the apparent handicap) - so it can definitely be a lot of fun.

However, the handling isn't a patch on the Civic at "spirited" momentums and the ride itself is relatively isolated from the road so you don't tend to make use of that poke except getting off the line (which is does a good deal quicker) .

I've not tried throwing her about with any great zeal to date, and she's never stepped off line on me, but I do get the impression that the Eco tyres would have a hard time recovering if you did push the front end on at all. That, and the combination of being tall and sprung as a cruiser, means what whilst the ride is stunningly smooth (seriously - Mercedes smooth!), you do get that additional bit of roll, nothing excessive now, we're not talking MPV roll here, but just that little bit more than you'd like if you were looking for a confident, sporty ride.

UnknownSpecies

I would probably drive it to work and back, purely for economy. The Civic is just too fun, like you said, handling at higher speeds, it's like a go cart! Find it hard to believe that it's as quick off the mark as you say, don't know why, suppose I'd just have to meet one at a set of lights some day :P

extremetaz

dorgasm wrote: »

I would probably drive it to work and back, purely for economy. The Civic is just too fun, like you said, handling at higher speeds, it's like a go cart! Find it hard to believe that it's as quick off the mark as you say, don't know why, suppose I'd just have to meet one at a set of lights some day :P

If your commute is costing you enough in fuel, then it might be worth considering - if it's only a short commute, then it's not really.

As for the torque off the line - I promise it'll shock you!

Hell, if you find yourself about the Westmeath area at all, drop me a line and I'll show you!

Sitec

Great opportunity for basically free motoring!

Had a spin of the Kangoo EV at the weekend, animal of a thing of the line!

UnknownSpecies

Are they automatic? If I ever am around Westmeath, expect a PM so :P In any case, it's highly unlikely that I'll be picked for the scheme.

extremetaz

dorgasm wrote: »

Are they automatic? If I ever am around Westmeath, expect a PM so :P In any case, it's highly unlikely that I'll be picked for the scheme.

Yeah, the charge scenario in cork doesn't exactly lend itself to them yet - far more likely to be given to someone in the greater Dublin area where the charge infrastructure is more developed.

As to automatic - they're CVT, so yes essentially. Like I said though, with 107 horses on tap literally anytime you put the foot down, this doesn't matter as much as you'd expect.

Shane732

Sitec wrote: »

Great opportunity for basically free motoring!

Had a spin of the Kangoo EV at the weekend, animal of a thing of the line!

Fancy a race off the line?!

The Leaf has no gearbox at all in the normal sense. It has a reduction gear, that's about it.

Electric motors are becoming more efficient and compact, I'll see if I can dig out the article but it seems that the motor and electronics will soon be encased in the one enclosure and not like the leaf or the Prius where the inverter is on top of the motor to make it look like the head of a normal engine.

It would be remarkably compact.

Wheel Hub motors will really be the next big advancement if they can ever sort out the unsprung weight, which I can't see being a huge issue considering the weight of the chassis with a big heavy battery but it would be a lot more efficient!