Galway Airport - mega merge

snubbleste

Who actually owns Galway Airport?

Mrs OBumble

boboldpilot, I'm kinda thinking that you don't realise just how small Ireland really is, and what the environmental impact of air travel is.

We have two airports approx 1 hour 15 mins drive away.

Also, I work for one of those multinationals. No sign of a corporate jet there, staff who travel do so usually from Dublin.

Iwannahurl

Although, tbh, I recall executives from US companies based in Ballybrit referring some years ago to the road to Shannon as "that dog track".

Robbo

snubbleste wrote: »

Who actually owns Galway Airport?

Based on an old CRO return which covers up to September 2010:

• Galway Chamber of Commerce: 581,351 Shares
• Thomas McDonagh & Sons Ltd 4,000 Shares
• Stephen Faller Ltd 2,500 Shares
• Shields Solicitors 200 Shares
• Horan & Sons 200 Shares
• Crown Equipment Corporation 30,000 Shares
• Nilands Ltd 500 Shares
• Royal Tara China 2,000 Shares
• Aer Arann Teoranta 10,000 Shares
• O'Connor TV Ltd 1,000 Shares
• McCambridges Ltd 2,500 Shares
• The Treasure Chest 2,000 Shares
• Ardilaun House Hotel 1,250 Shares
• Galway Corporation 7,500 Shares
• Galway County Council 7,500 Shares
• Peter Allen 200 Shares
• Antony Ryan Ltd 1,250 Shares

Aerohead

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

boboldpilot, I'm kinda thinking that you don't realise just how small Ireland really is, and what the environmental impact of air travel is.

We have two airports approx 1 hour 15 mins drive away.

Also, I work for one of those multinationals. No sign of a corporate jet there, staff who travel do so usually from Dublin.

I have a friend working there and Corporate Jets are regular visitors to the Airport in fact there were two on the one day recently, just because your company dont use the Airport others do.

boboldpilot

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

boboldpilot, I'm kinda thinking that you don't realise just how small Ireland really is, and what the environmental impact of air travel is.

We have two airports approx 1 hour 15 mins drive away.

Also, I work for one of those multinationals. No sign of a corporate jet there, staff who travel do so usually from Dublin.

As the previous poster indicated they do visit regularly and they are a lucrative revenue stream for airports.

As for your company. I think you'll find they probably do use corporate jets just not into Galway. Most multinationals either own them, as in they have a full flight department, or they rent them when needed. You just may not be aware of this. Google it, you might be surprised. Many high level executives have neither the time or inclination to go through the hassle of airline travel.

As for how small Ireland is, well I do actually. There's a clue in my user name??

As for environment impact of air travel, let's not go there.

Dan_Solo

Not getting the relevance of corporate/private jets really. If they were enough to keep the airport going (and I doubt that if two a day is a novelty) then the airport wouldn't be shutting up shop in the first place. Galway airport was a massively subsidized money pit during the good times. It's embarrassing to pretend it "deserves" some sort of vital amenity status now the general public have no interest whatsoever in using it.

boboldpilot

Again, you're missing the point. Sure it was a money pit, was. Really the former management had illusions of grandeur. Ran it like it was a big airport which it wasn't and tended to turn up their nose at anything else. Then Aer Arann flew away and it was left exposed.

Now if the owners want to keep it and make some money from it. They need to attract customers not neccessarily the general public, without much if any public subsidy.

It's like saying that Galway port should be shut down because the Queen Mary can't fit in the docks. It's for smaller ships and they generate income too. Plus all the private boats etc.

In the long run having a small airport in Galway is better than having no airport at all. Particulary if it pays for itself and brings people to Galway.

Dan_Solo

boboldpilot wrote: »

In the long run having a small airport in Galway is better than having no airport at all. Particulary if it pays for itself and brings people to Galway.

I think you've answered this already yourself.
It doesn't bring people to Galway.
It doesn't pay for itself.
Bad enough as massive subsidies were while the general public were at least partially using the airport, to prop it up now for one private flight a day is nuts.
Your comparison with the harbour is nonsense. The harbour makes money, even if it's a laughable amount. I don't have any of my taxes go towards it.

boboldpilot

In fact it did bring people to Galway but once again you have massively missed the point. The point I'm trying make it that it can pay for itself by, wait for it, bringing people to Galway. Not in airliners anymore, but in other ways. It can encourage job creation by getting companies to move in and use the airport.

I personally think it could survive without subsidy in due course. Who knows maybe a few years down the road a passenger service could come back. It certainly won't happen if it's left to rot with weeds growing up through the runway. People seem very keen to get rid of what is a potential gold mine.

There is a very common misconception among people that airports are always about airlines. In fact most of the world's air traffic is what's called General Aviation. That is everything else. From tiny microlights all the way up to private 747s and everything in between. Most of the world's smaller airports like Galway cater exclusively to general aviation. That includes flight training, air taxi, surveying, joy rides, scenic flying, parachuting, private flying and all the rest. If Galway wants to survive it needs to tap into that market. It's practically invisible to the average person in this country but it's there alright and in my opinion there's an opportunity to be had.

I think they will from what I hear.

Aerohead

It must very hard for guys working out there reading some of the posts here especially if the posters are from Galway, why on Earth would you not try and support an Airport that is already there and open every day for general aviation, the Air Corps rescue helicopter has been in every day some times twice a day for refuel in active duty this generates money for the Airport as does the Coastguard Rescue helicopter, how many times a day now do you see the helicopters going into the hospital. As I write this post the Air Corps are back into the hospital after re-fuelling at the Airport its a vital for them and private aviation to maintain this facility and who knows long term what will happen.

People stopped flying with Aer Arann when they switched to Southend Airport a place that people did not want to go, this was not the fault of the Airport, Aer Arann have now pulled out of Waterford for exactly the same reason flying into Southend and the drop in numbers flying with them. Give the Airport a chance to survive and support it dont knock it.

emptybladder

snubbleste wrote: »

Who actually owns Galway Airport?

GALWAY CHAMBER OF COMMERCE
CROWN EQUIPMENT CORP.
AER ARANN TEO
GALWAY CORP
GALWAY COUNTY COUNCIL
THOS. MCDONOGH & SONS
MCCAMBRIDGE LTD
STEPHEN FALLER LTD
ROYAL TARA CHINA LTD
TREASURE CHEST LTD
ARDILAUN HOUSE HOTEL
ANTHONY RYAN LTD
O'CONNORS TV LTD
NILANDS LTD
PETER ALLEN
SHIELDS SOLICITORS
HORAN & SONS

snubbleste

Robbo wrote: »

Based on an old CRO return which covers up to September 2010:

• Galway Chamber of Commerce: 581,351 Shares
• Thomas McDonagh & Sons Ltd 4,000 Shares
• Stephen Faller Ltd 2,500 Shares
• Shields Solicitors 200 Shares
• Horan & Sons 200 Shares
• Crown Equipment Corporation 30,000 Shares
• Nilands Ltd 500 Shares
• Royal Tara China 2,000 Shares
• Aer Arann Teoranta 10,000 Shares
• O'Connor TV Ltd 1,000 Shares
• McCambridges Ltd 2,500 Shares
• The Treasure Chest 2,000 Shares
• Ardilaun House Hotel 1,250 Shares
• Galway Corporation 7,500 Shares
• Galway County Council 7,500 Shares
• Peter Allen 200 Shares
• Antony Ryan Ltd 1,250 Shares

Cheers. So effectively it is owned by private investors but it will now have non-airport related €200k taxpayer subsidy thrown at it. Are any of those other shareholders throwing money at it?

ben.schlomo

Aerohead wrote: »

It must very hard for guys working out there reading some of the posts here especially if the posters are from Galway, why on Earth would you not try and support an Airport that is already there and open every day for general aviation, the Air Corps rescue helicopter has been in every day some times twice a day for refuel in active duty this generates money for the Airport as does the Coastguard Rescue helicopter, how many times a day now do you see the helicopters going into the hospital. As I write this post the Air Corps are back into the hospital after re-fuelling at the Airport its a vital for them and private aviation to maintain this facility and who knows long term what will happen.

People stopped flying with Aer Arann when they switched to Southend Airport a place that people did not want to go, this was not the fault of the Airport, Aer Arann have now pulled out of Waterford for exactly the same reason flying into Southend and the drop in numbers flying with them. Give the Airport a chance to survive and support it dont knock it.

Most regular folk would have no issue supporting a viable airport which was able to operate off its own finances and didnt require propping up. It really is as simple as that, throwing good money after bad beggars belief.

Dan_Solo

boboldpilot wrote: »

In fact it did bring people to Galway but once again you have massively missed the point. The point I'm trying make it that it can pay for itself by, wait for it, bringing people to Galway. Not in airliners anymore, but in other ways. It can encourage job creation by getting companies to move in and use the airport.

So in other words you are saying to use the airport exactly as it is being used now. Is there currently a ban on companies using the airport that needs to be lifted? No, they have decided they don't want to use it.
I really don't see what your business plan here is besides "chuck money at it and sure it might drum up some business eventually". Where is this untapped demand for flight schools, charity parachute drops or whatever that do not have access to the airport right now if they want it?

Dan_Solo

Aerohead wrote: »

It must very hard for guys working out there reading some of the posts here especially if the posters are from Galway, why on Earth would you not try and support an Airport that is already there and open every day for general aviation

Oh dear, play the emotional card why don't you.
I am in Galway and I did use the airport for flights to Dublin/London/Leeds when they were available. That is the "support" I gave them, I paid for flight tickets. Now it seems I supposed to pay in taxes for absolutely zero return for other private individuals to use it.
Look at it this way, Cava was an excellent restaurant that I loved and now it is closed. Would you like to fork out a subsidy for them so I can continue eating there, at a reduced price, even though you never liked the place at all?
Exactly the same thing.

Laviski

Aerohead wrote: »

It must very hard for guys working out there reading some of the posts here especially if the posters are from Galway, why on Earth would you not try and support an Airport that is already there and open every day for general aviation, the Air Corps rescue helicopter has been in every day some times twice a day for refuel in active duty this generates money for the Airport as does the Coastguard Rescue helicopter, how many times a day now do you see the helicopters going into the hospital. As I write this post the Air Corps are back into the hospital after re-fuelling at the Airport its a vital for them and private aviation to maintain this facility and who knows long term what will happen.

People stopped flying with Aer Arann when they switched to Southend Airport a place that people did not want to go, this was not the fault of the Airport, Aer Arann have now pulled out of Waterford for exactly the same reason flying into Southend and the drop in numbers flying with them. Give the Airport a chance to survive and support it dont knock it.

yeah galway airport is well known to rip ppl off with their landing parking charges and the cost of refueling in comparision to others in ireland (for Private Flights). Management should have being the ones fired. Like i said before they had a chance to move the airport in the boom time to a more suitable site, they didn't so let it rot.

boboldpilot

Dan_Solo wrote: »

So in other words you are saying to use the airport exactly as it is being used now. Is there currently a ban on companies using the airport that needs to be lifted? No, they have decided they don't want to use it.
I really don't see what your business plan here is besides "chuck money at it and sure it might drum up some business eventually". Where is this untapped demand for flight schools, charity parachute drops or whatever that do not have access to the airport right now if they want it?

It's not my business plan. I don't know what their business plan is. I'm merely suggesting a potential business plan. Somehow or other I don't think I'm a genius for suggesting the same business plan that keeps many small airports in profit all over the world.

All I know is that from my experience, there is an untapped demand for charity parachute drops and flight schools and all the rest in similar cities all over the place. Is Galway weirdly different than other similar size towns in other countries?

I doubt it.

Maybe the only difference is the old Irish/Galway mentality of knocking everything and being negative about anything close to a money making idea.

Look at Ryanair, it's money making machine. But everyone in Ireland hates them. If they were French or British no one would think twice?

Sure close the place. Turn it into a sheep farm. Shure begorrah isn't that the Galway way of things, eff everything up. Look at what happened to the Ocean race event.

What kind of town allows that to happen?

boboldpilot

Laviski wrote: »

yeah galway airport is well known to rip ppl off with their landing parking charges and the cost of refueling in comparision to others in ireland (for Private Flights). Management should have being the ones fired. Like i said before they had a chance to move the airport in the boom time to a more suitable site, they didn't so let it rot.

First off the old managment is gone. New management is more pragmatic, not only that they are not even being paid. Expect changes.

boboldpilot

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Oh dear, play the emotional card why don't you.
I am in Galway and I did use the airport for flights to Dublin/London/Leeds when they were available. That is the "support" I gave them, I paid for flight tickets. Now it seems I supposed to pay in taxes for absolutely zero return for other private individuals to use it.
Look at it this way, Cava was an excellent restaurant that I loved and now it is closed. Would you like to fork out a subsidy for them so I can continue eating there, at a reduced price, even though you never liked the place at all?
Exactly the same thing.

You are still thinking big airport. Look get it into your head! An airport can make money without airline flights or subsidy.

How often does it have to be said to you?

Dan_Solo

boboldpilot wrote: »

You are still thinking big airport. Look get it into your head! An airport can make money without airline flights or subsidy.

How often does it have to be said to you?

It only has to be said once if it has the slightest hint of logic or evidence in it.
So far your plan is: sponge off the taxpayer and hope for the best, but sure me and me mates who love a bit of flying at the weekend get what we want so who cares.
You are saying small airports can survive. Sure they can. They can also close too when nobody wants them.
I think a far more familiar meme to everybody here than the "typical Irish naysayer" is the "typical Irish backhander", where a supposedly private business has a list of mates on the local council only too eager to assemble a mound of public money and torch it so long as they get their cut and a few jollies.

Dan_Solo

boboldpilot wrote: »

Maybe the only difference is the old Irish/Galway mentality of knocking everything and being negative about anything close to a money making idea.

I really can't stop guffawing at this. It'll keep me awake tonight.
In what way is Galway Airport "close to a money making idea"? It's a turkey. Has been for years. It lived off the begging bowl during the boom years and now you expect them turn a profit in the middle of the deepest recession in living memory?:rolleyes:

ben.schlomo

boboldpilot wrote: »

It's not my business plan. I don't know what their business plan is. I'm merely suggesting a potential business plan. Somehow or other I don't think I'm a genius for suggesting the same business plan that keeps many small airports in profit all over the world.

All I know is that from my experience, there is an untapped demand for charity parachute drops and flight schools and all the rest in similar cities all over the place. Is Galway weirdly different than other similar size towns in other countries?

I doubt it.

Maybe the only difference is the old Irish/Galway mentality of knocking everything and being negative about anything close to a money making idea.

Look at Ryanair, it's money making machine. But everyone in Ireland hates them. If they were French or British no one would think twice?

Sure close the place. Turn it into a sheep farm. Shure begorrah isn't that the Galway way of things, eff everything up. Look at what happened to the Ocean race event.

What kind of town allows that to happen?

Dont take it upon yourself to lump us all in with those imbeciles who cant see Ryanair's plus points.

Sponge Bob

If it can survive as a private airport that is fine with me. I don't propose digging it up and putting sheeps on it.

It has no future as a scheduled flight airport. Bizjets and Cessnas can come and go 24/7 and any collywopter needing a splash of diesel is entirely welcome.

ted2767

Wow really can't believe that people are still debating this.
For years people were pushing for better road and rail links from Galway and justifiably so.
However now that these are in place there are no commercial grounds for an airport in Galway.
The place barely broke even in the boom years when it was easy to make money.
Get over it and move on.

Iwannahurl

ted2767 wrote: »

The place barely broke even in the boom years when it was easy to make money.

Get over it and move on.

I used to like the Aer Arann connection to Lorient, but that's just nostalgia admittedly.

http://www.galwayairport.com/about/Media_Archive/23/Galway_Airport_welcomes_Aer_Aranns_expansion_into_Continental_Europe_38

Laviski

boboldpilot wrote: »

First off the old managment is gone. New management is more pragmatic, not only that they are not even being paid. Expect changes.

spoken like a like a TD or councilman.
fact is galway airport is rated very badly amongst pilots in terms of their rediculous charges and avoid the galway zone at all costs. alot of that damage in their image needs to be repaired if they stand a chance.

Joe 90

boboldpilot wrote: »

You're still thinking big airport rather than local airport. It is possible for Carnmore to sustain itself with little or no subsidy and still be an asset to the area. The mistake the previous management made was to try and compete with bigger airports and provide scheduled and charter traffic. It could never succeed in the long run without a longer runway. Again I refer to the American and Canadian model, not the airpark thing. That's just a bit of fun. But it's very common for towns smaller than Galway to have small local airports run on a shoestring. It works for them why not here in Ireland?

Again you're thinking big airport rather than local. Already the flying club is there. Why not a flying school or one of many other small aviation companies. All over Europe and the world there are small airports which host lots of small businesses. Weston airport ran into problem with the locals when they tried to encourage business jets. No such problems in Galway is there? That business is very lucrative. You don't need very many flights for it to pay for itself.

I've no insight into the plans they might try. But if they have any sense that's the road they'll go down.

Indeed. The trouble is that in Ireland when people think airport they think airlines and lots of public service type jobs.

They don't think airstrip where the guy who talks on the radio sells the fuel and takes the landing fee. Airstrip, wher you don't need baggage handlers because you don't care about scheduled flights. You don't care about scheduled flights so it need not be licensed.

If Galway looses it's airstrip it will be come a helluva lot less attractive to outside investment.

Joe 90

Laviski wrote: »

spoken like a like a TD or councilman.
fact is galway airport is rated very badly amongst pilots in terms of their rediculous charges and avoid the galway zone at all costs. alot of that damage in their image needs to be repaired if they stand a chance.

That in fact has to be Galway's biggest problem if it is to have a future as a GA field.

boboldpilot

We'll soon see who gets the last guffaw!:p

boboldpilot

boboldpilot wrote: »

An airport can make money without airline flights or subsidy.

OK I agree with you on that but then why are we being asked to cough up €200k to them?

Let the airport cut its cloth to suit its purse.

boboldpilot

According to the papers, it's mostly for the park and ride. Which I think is a mistake.

I've been trying to make the point that the airport can pay for itself and should. If the taxpayer puts money into it then a return should be expected. 200k is peanuts in the scheme of things. The tax on the fuel they sell every year would probably exceed that. Not to mention any other business brought in.

It's a bit of a no brainer.

Dan_Solo

Joe 90 wrote: »

Indeed. The trouble is that in Ireland when people think airport they think airlines and lots of public service type jobs.

Indeed, what they should really be thinking is private airports with lots of public service style funding...

bombs away

So what is the story nowadays with regard to GA into Galway anyway. They still charging extraorbitant amounts or have they reduced their prices? They just open at the weekends or weekdays aswell? And is avgas available?

Last time I was there the place was pretty much a ghost terminal, not a soul in sight. Real pity to see it but they basically have no one to blame but themselves the way they treated the GA community

Might be interested in taking a flight there though in the near future if they've changed their outlook

yer man!

What was the most popular route from the airport when it was open? I remember getting the London Luton one before and to be fair I thought it was very handy as I live in Oranmore I was home in 5 minutes compared to nearly 3 hours with a bus and taxi (DUB), it also worked out the same price as from Dublin but that could have been the subsidy, I dunno. From the one time I've ever used the place I thought it was very handy and reasonable in my experience, I could be an isolated case though.

boboldpilot

bombs away wrote: »

So what is the story nowadays with regard to GA into Galway anyway. They still charging extraorbitant amounts or have they reduced their prices? They just open at the weekends or weekdays aswell? And is avgas available?

Last time I was there the place was pretty much a ghost terminal, not a soul in sight. Real pity to see it but they basically have no one to blame but themselves the way they treated the GA community

Might be interested in taking a flight there though in the near future if they've changed their outlook

Word is that GA will be encouraged, weekends and all. Different regime in place. Long overdue.:cool:

yer man!

How come flights were never run from this airport to the Aran islands? It's a bit frustrating to see the govt building a €5million airstrip in Clifden a few years ago for Inisbofin and not utilising current infrastructure better. Many of the locals already complain that the Inverin airstrip is a bit annoying as after a flight you stil need to travel quite a bit into Galway city. Would be interesting to see if Galway airport would work for a hub for onward travel to the islands?

There were flights to the Aran Islands 20 odd years ago as far as I can remember.

Carnmore to Innisboffin is the guts of 100km passing over mountains. It isn't an obvious route.

Edit: In a straight line it is 91km from Innisboffin to Carnmore, 66km to Knock.

Dan_Solo

yer man! wrote: »

How come flights were never run from this airport to the Aran islands?

Because, like most flights from Galway Airport and just about anything to do with the Aran Islands, the flights would have to be massively subsidised with taxpayer money and nobody really wants to do that any more?

Iwannahurl

yer man! wrote: »

How come flights were never run from this airport to the Aran islands? It's a bit frustrating to see the govt building a €5million airstrip in Clifden a few years ago for Inisbofin and not utilising current infrastructure better. Many of the locals already complain that the Inverin airstrip is a bit annoying as after a flight you stil need to travel quite a bit into Galway city. Would be interesting to see if Galway airport would work for a hub for onward travel to the islands?

Aer Arann commenced services to Inishmore in 1970, flying out from Oranmore Aerodrome.

"A more permanent base was required and this was to materialise in the form of Carnmore. Mr. Ernest Steiner, a former Luftwaffe pilot and local factory owner, decided to finance a new airstrip and hangar. Aer Arann based themselves at the new facility and commenced flights from Carnmore in March 1974. The following month, the fleet was increased to two with the delivery of another [Britten-Norman] Islander, EI-AYN. In July, both aircraft were chartered by Senator Edward Kennedy to bring [sic] him and his family to the islands.

[...]

1991 was another dramatic year for Aer Arann. Following wranglings with the company running Carnmore, Aer Arann decided to move its base to a new airfield at Minna, near Inverin, ten miles west of Galway city."

Source: http://www.galway.net/pages/aerarann/history.html

I well remember the Britten-Norman Islanders flying back and forth between Carnmore and the Aran Islands when I was a kid.

Mrs OBumble

Park and ride starts next Monday.

Official website: http://galwayparkandride.com/

My more concise writeup: http://news.galwaytransport.info/2013/05/galway-airport-park-and-ride-pilot-2013.html

snubbleste

e4 return to park outside city limits! Sure I can park at the Dyke Rd for that

connemara man

snubbleste wrote: »

e4 return to park outside city limits! Sure I can park at the Dyke Rd for that

But can someone entering Galway from the east or that area guarantee themselves a parking spot in dyke rd without getting to Galway by 9:30, I doubt it also they are saving the feul cost of travelling in further

biko

20 working days in a month = 80 euro at Dyke Rd.
Bus pass is 68 and no circling around looking for a spot.
Seems pretty good deal if you work close to Eyre Sq.

Dan_Solo

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Park and ride starts next Monday.

Official website: http://galwayparkandride.com/

My more concise writeup: http://news.galwaytransport.info/2013/05/galway-airport-park-and-ride-pilot-2013.html

Struggling to see how this will have any impact on the airport, unless there's going to be an attempt to say the "airport" is busy even though it's just a car park?

Robbo

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Struggling to see how this will have any impact on the airport, unless there's going to be an attempt to say the "airport" is busy even though it's just a car park?

All part of the eventual plan to have it renamed Potemkin International Airport complete with cardboard planes and inflatable passengers.

Joe 90

Robbo wrote: »

All part of the eventual plan to have it renamed Potemkin International Airport complete with cardboard planes and inflatable passengers.

Dan_Solo

"This is your captain speaking, we are shortly to take off from Galway airport..."

Mrs OBumble

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Struggling to see how this will have any impact on the airport, unless there's going to be an attempt to say the "airport" is busy even though it's just a car park?

Presumably the ultimate plan is that the bus-operator who has the contract to run the service will pay a rights-fee to the airport for the use of the bus-stop space.

For now it's just a pilot, to see what's viable.

Mr_A

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

For now it's just a pilot, to see what's viable.

Ha. I see what you did there. :P

They'll certainly be hoping this service takes off.