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Galway Airport - mega merge

Rob A. Bank

Very sad to see this...

Last ditch efforts to save Galway Airport by sourcing a new airline have failed and it is expected that the operation will shut down permanently next month.

It’s understood that the IDA and Enterprise Ireland will be approached over the coming weeks with a view to locating an industry at the 115 acre site.

See tmorrow's Connacht Sentinel for the full story

http://www.facebook.com/ConnachtTribune

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bluecode

Well if it helps keeps the airport open, no harm in using the car parks already there. I can't see a big take up on it though. It is a bit far out and it's only needed around Christmas anyway.

From my own knowledge on the airport side there does seem to continue to be unrealistic expectations from them in terms of attracting users and how much they'll pay. You'd have thought they learned by now.

It is still open, earlier I saw some foreign military aircraft fly out of the airport. No doubt on a rendition flight.:D GAAW will be furious they missed it!

GekkePrutser

To be honest I don't see this P&R ever working there.

It's too far from the city, people coming in are not going to want to spend half an hour on a bus into the city when they could just take their chances and park in town themselves for 4 euro for the day. So it'll have to be cheaper than that, and easier. Most people that drive do so because they prefer having their own transport otherwise they'd have come in on the express bus or train in the first place.

It also means they will have to run a very regular bus service with probably pretty empty buses, if they run only once every 30 mins or finish early in the evening it would diminish the appeal even more. Between waiting for the bus and getting to your car it could be an hour then, and even with bad traffic you'll be well out of town within that time in your own car.

It sounds to me like something that will have to be heavily subsidized. I'd rather see them spend the money on helping people, community services and the like.

Irishgoatman

Haven't read through all of the posts so this might have been said.

P & R is all very well and always sounds good, but if you're going shopping for the day you've got to carry everything from one shop to another and back on to the bus.

For some people this is just not possible. Much easier to be able to take purchases back to the car and lock them in the boot before moving on to the next shop or two.

xtradel

Tis a pity nobody thought of putting a proper bus service in place when the airport had passengers.

yer man!

Sponge Bob wrote: »

No real parking at this Oranmore station which is in a field well outside Oranmore anyway. It will cost around €7-€8 return for a train ticket from the field well outside Oranmore to the city....not including parking I suspect.

The airport has substantial unused parking facilities in situ.

How do you know it'll cost that much? FYI 153 space car park. This is off topic I know but still, it could be useful.

Head The Wall

I don't think it's going to do any good there, it's too close to Galway, if you drive that far you may as well keep going. There is also the cost of the train and the parking fee they will charge.

yer man!

Head The Wall wrote: »

I don't think it's going to do any good there, it's too close to Galway, if you drive that far you may as well keep going. There is also the cost of the train and the parking fee they will charge.

No meters or barriers on the plan so I doubt they'll charge for parking, seeing as it's isolated too. It can take about 40 mins to reach eyre square by car from here some mornings so the train may not be so bad.

Private Joker

Head The Wall wrote: »

I don't think it's going to do any good there, it's too close to Galway, if you drive that far you may as well keep going. There is also the cost of the train and the parking fee they will charge.

same could be said about carnmore.

snubbleste

snubbleste wrote: »

They stole my idea!
Minister of State Alan Kelly is to make contact with city officials to relook at proposals for a city park and ride at Galway Airport. http://www.galwaynews.ie/28862-minister-state-address-city-officials-merits-park-n-ride-galway-airport

The National Transport Authority has agreed to allocate funding of €100,000 to facilitate a park 'n' ride scheme on lands at Galway airport. http://www.galwaynews.ie/30290-nta-provide-funding-galway-airport-park-n-ride
So it's going ahead

I don't get it, I thought there was some report done where it was shown that the airport was not a cost-effective place to place a park'n'ride?
Are there some vested interests behind trying to get public monies?

Storm 10

That money and the money from Galway City and County Councils will give the Airport a lifeline to continue to operate and seek new business, its very busy out there with the Coastguard and Air Corps rescue helicopters its vital to them for the Airport to remain in business for refuelling etc.

I hope the park and ride will work for them

pleasant Co.

Storm 10 wrote: »

I hope the park and ride will work for them

I don't see how that's gonna be possible, but yeah..hope..why not

snubbleste

I'd like to see a potential private park'n'ride operator challenge this funding from government & local authority under EU competition rules. They'd win hands down.

I think it was Joe Tansey who said that during the tender for the Christmas park'n'ride and that the airports tender was inefficient mainly because of location compare to the racecourse.
I smell something.

Iwannahurl

Care to speculate?

My gut reaction when I saw the news report on the Carnmore P&R was that this was a handy way to bung money at the ailing airport without being seen to subsidise it.

It's not a dig-out, it's investment in traffic and transport solutions for Galway City, sort of thing.

Then I thought, maybe I'm being too cynical...

Dan_Solo

Storm 10 wrote: »

its very busy out there with the Coastguard and Air Corps rescue helicopters its vital to them for the Airport to remain in business for refuelling etc.

Sorry, how many rescues are run from Galway airport every day and you're saying there's so many staff involved that they need their own park n ride scheme? Talk about PR waffle...

Storm 10

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Sorry, how many rescues are run from Galway airport every day and you're saying there's so many staff involved that they need their own park n ride scheme? Talk about PR waffle...

I dont know where you are coming from, I never mentioned anything about staff etc, read the post, The Air Corps and Coastguard helicopters use Galway Airport to refuel if they lost that facility it would not be good for them, the Air Corps Helicopter is in there daily as is the Coastguard to refuel either before or after a mission, thank God that we have them .The park and ride will be for the general public going to or coming from Galway.

Neworder79

I don't think you can say it's critical to the coast guard or SAR. SAR are based at Shannon and Sligo, Coastguard and air ambulance at Baldonnel and Athlone. I'm sure they can arrange to refuel at Inverin or Knock if necessary.

Amazing that NRA who haven't the money to start any new road projects can find €1m for an experimental car-park that the council's own report says isn't viable.

kraggy

Neworder79 wrote: »

I don't think you can say it's critical to the coast guard or SAR. SAR are based at Shannon and Sligo, Coastguard and air ambulance at Baldonnel and Athlone. I'm sure they can arrange to refuel at Inverin or Knock if necessary.

Amazing that NRA who haven't the money to start any new road projects can find €1m for an experimental car-park that the council's own report says isn't viable.

It's the NTA not the NRA. And it's 100,000, not 1 million.

Besides that, the article on GalwayNews.ie is very confusing:

"It is understood that the eleventh hour funding was agreed after a private bus operator signed up to provide the service between the airport and the city at no cost.

Farrell Travel, which operates day and night buses between Athenry, Oranmore and the city as well as the GMIT shuttle bus, will take all proceeds from the service, which is being run on a pilot basis until the end of the year."

The above doesn't make sense. In the first paragraph it states the bus company is providing the service at no cost, but then the second paragraph states that the bus company in question will take all the proceeds. I'm sorry, what?

How is the airport going to survive if the bus company is taking all the money?

Or am I missing something?

Dan_Solo

Storm 10 wrote: »

I dont know where you are coming from, I never mentioned anything about staff etc, read the post, The Air Corps and Coastguard helicopters use Galway Airport to refuel if they lost that facility it would not be good for them, the Air Corps Helicopter is in there daily as is the Coastguard to refuel either before or after a mission, thank God that we have them .

Oh I see, now Galway airport is vital to emergency services so it has to be kept open forever. Really. Very believable. They can't use Sligo or Knock or Shannon I suppose?

Storm 10 wrote: »

The park and ride will be for the general public going to or coming from Galway.

What general public! Nobody uses the airport! Why do you think it's slated for mothballing in the first place!

snubbleste

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Care to speculate?
My gut reaction when I saw the news report on the Carnmore P&R was that this was a handy way to bung money at the ailing airport without being seen to subsidise it.
It's not a dig-out, it's investment in traffic and transport solutions for Galway City, sort of thing.
Then I thought, maybe I'm being too cynical...

It just sounds fishy. Aren't these type of projects supposed to go to tender?
The provision of a park and ride service for commuters at Galway Airport would cost Galway City Council almost €900,000 a year to operate and so is not economically viable, a previously unpublished report reveals. The report by the Galway Transportation Unit – which effectively rules out park and ride at the Carnmore facility – was completed in June last year but was never presented to city councillors. http://www.galwaynews.ie/29733-council-accused-burying-report-airport
Yet the service can now operate on €200,000

Mrs OBumble

Dan_Solo wrote: »

What general public! Nobody uses the airport! Why do you think it's slated for mothballing in the first place!

Ahh, quite a lot of people drive from outside Galway to inside Galway each day. No planes involved. :rolleyes:

Some of them would find it attractive to be able to park easily outside town, and let a shuttle bus do the manic driving bit.

I doubt that the full commercial details (exactly how much the airport is getting for providing access to it's parking) will become public.

Farrels are running two other shuttle services around town, adding this one makes sense operationally. They run the ony night-buses in the county. And they've just started a twice-daily service to some of the industrial estates. I'd have a fair bit of confidence that they can put together a sensible P&R service, which runs at times to suit working/shopping people, without going to the totally OTT every-ten minutes of the loss-making Christmas P&R.

Iwannahurl

It's worth bearing in mind, IMHO, that parking charges can be a nice little earner for a body with the right set-up.

Galway Harbour Company would be a case in point. Parking charges constituted 11% of their revenue in 2002, and I have a vague notion that the percentage has risen since then.

Dan_Solo

Iwannahurl wrote: »

It's worth bearing in mind, IMHO, that parking charges can be a nice little earner for a body with the right set-up.

Galway Harbour Company would be a case in point. Parking charges constituted 11% of their revenue in 2002, and I have a vague notion that the percentage has risen since then.

I think that story was more about what a pathetic amount of money Galway Harbour Inc was actually making...

stampydmonkey

hmm..something fishy going on alright..the park and ride won't work there, in fact don't think it is suitable for a city the size of galway except maybe race week, or other exceptionally busy times. However would €200000 not fund a fairly decent airshow. at least that way the airport might actually get some use

flazio

With regards Emergency refueling, bear in mind that UCHG is the destination for any post rescue transport, having to be wary about how much fuel is left in the aircraft after patient delivery could have a serious effect on the quality of service, the range of the helicopter and the time it can remain at scene. Leaving enough fuel in the helicopter to return to Athlone, Shannon or Sligo isn't as easy as you think.

Mrs OBumble

stampydmonkey wrote: »

hmm..something fishy going on alright..the park and ride won't work there, in fact don't think it is suitable for a city the size of galway except maybe race week, or other exceptionally busy times.

Like Christmas ... or the Novena.

But do you realise just how many people commute to work from outside Galway. Just looking around the office now, two of us live in the city boundaries, the rest of have commutes from either County Galway, or the surrounding counties.

I'm not convinced that P&R isn't viable.

stampydmonkey

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Like Christmas ... or the Novena.

But do you realise just how many people commute to work from outside Galway. Just looking around the office now, two of us live in the city boundaries, the rest of have commutes from either County Galway, or the surrounding counties.

I'm not convinced that P&R isn't viable.

I'm not convinced anyone in their right mind who would commute all the way from another county only to hop on a bus at galway airport to finish the journey. agree it could be viable at exceptionally busy times but all year round. don't see it having constant numbers to be honest

Doc Ruby

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Oh I see, now Galway airport is vital to emergency services so it has to be kept open forever. Really. Very believable. They can't use Sligo or Knock or Shannon I suppose?
What general public! Nobody uses the airport! Why do you think it's slated for mothballing in the first place!

There are black-fly-ridden villages in the depths of Canada that have better airport facilities than Galway. Sligo and Knock (Knock?! wtf?!) are far less populated than this city, and Shannon is only arguably useful by dint of its proximity to Limerick. Of course Galway should have a proper airport, and it's a testament to the gang of wasters who got where they are because of daddy's dodgy deals that we have the glorified car park currently servicing the city.

vkid

Doc Ruby wrote: »

There are black-fly-ridden villages in the depths of Canada that have better airport facilities than Galway. Sligo and Knock (Knock?! wtf?!) are far less populated than this city, and Shannon is only arguably useful by dint of its proximity to Limerick. Of course Galway should have a proper airport, and it's a testament to the gang of wasters who got where they are because of daddy's dodgy deals that we have the glorified car park currently servicing the city.

There is absolutely no reason Galway needs a "proper airport". It couldnt make the one it had work even on a small basis even taking into account its industry base and strong tourism market. It is only an hour max from Shannon and if you are to have a sustainable airport on the Western seaboard that is the one that makes sense. It has far better facilities than any other airport in the West and should be developed as such. It has the longest runway in the country, Customs and Border pre-clearance to the US and a 24 hour airport terminal. Its located about 15 miles from Limerick (urban population 90k), and 60 miles from Galway ( urban population 70k). Unless you spend a complete shedload of money on a new site in Galway, it will never be a runner. Even Knock has a better offering than Galway airport, albeit in the middle of nowhere..

With the state of the countries finances, the last thing the country needs is another airport and the focus should be on the ones that actually have a chance,..

Iwannahurl

Dan_Solo wrote: »

I think that story was more about what a pathetic amount of money Galway Harbour Inc was actually making...

Fair point. The context in which I heard it (much more recently than the report I linked) was that parking revenue had become a much larger proportion of their turnover.

That was a comment on issues such as the reduction in revenue from normal port activities, the absurdly high salaries of managers and who was benefitting from the car parking business.

In the grand scheme of things, parking charges may not be a big deal for a large company with a high turnover and lots of staff. However, it might be a different story with a smaller operation and fewer potential beneficiaries of the revenue...

Iwannahurl

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I'm not convinced that P&R isn't viable.

stampydmonkey wrote: »

I'm not convinced anyone in their right mind who would commute all the way from another county only to hop on a bus at galway airport to finish the journey. agree it could be viable at exceptionally busy times but all year round. don't see it having constant numbers to be honest

P&R is badly needed, that's for sure. It also needs to be incentivised in some way, I suppose.

But the business case needs to be sound, and the venture has to be planned properly. Hard to avoid politicking and gombeenism in this country though.

EDIT: re comparisons with Galway Harbour Company, see this August 2012 report in the national Independent: http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/20000-pay-rise-for-chief-of-port-that-lost-800000-26891294.html

Quote: "Galway Harbour Company made more money [in 2011] from car parking and renting property than from port business." Meanwhile, the salary for the CEO of this glorified car-park is in the region of €100,000.

.