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The systematic destruction of history.

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,029 ✭✭✭shedweller


    Torakx wrote: »
    It would be a futile exercise just for a cemetry or tomb alright!
    Or was the birth of the ego something that happened long ago and is getting gradually weaker, with regards it's effects on the will?
    More a philosophy question haha.
    And a psychology one regarding the pharoahs, IF they did indeed build those pyramids.
    Actually, you hit on something there that has bothered me. If pharoes were buried in the valley of the kings, whats with the pyramids? The premise behind the valley of the kings was to hide the kings booty from looters. The pyramids throw this out the window!


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,855 ✭✭✭Nabber


    The Alien theory on all of these 'Ancient' civs and buildings distracts and wastes resources.

    Apply the alien theory to any other building and you will see how ridiculous it is.

    Like the stones at Carnac are a signal to other alien, satellites not an option for advances Aliens?
    It's like the Aliens landed in bronze age earth and introduced Iron age technology. They had early humans building batteries, landing pads & run ways with rocks. Give me fcuking break.

    When you think back, it's worth remembering that human life was worth less than livestock.
    The pyramids could have cost 100,000 in slaves, the only issue the pharaoh would have would be replenishing the slaves.

    No matter how big the universe is, aliens coming to earth to have humans build random shyte stone works is just to far fetched too waste time on.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,737 ✭✭✭✭degrassinoel


    Nabber wrote: »
    The Alien theory on all of these 'Ancient' civs and buildings distracts and wastes resources.

    Apply the alien theory to any other building and you will see how ridiculous it is.

    Like the stones at Carnac are a signal to other alien, satellites not an option for advances Aliens?
    It's like the Aliens landed in bronze age earth and introduced Iron age technology. They had early humans building batteries, landing pads & run ways with rocks. Give me fcuking break.

    When you think back, it's worth remembering that human life was worth less than livestock.
    The pyramids could have cost 100,000 in slaves, the only issue the pharaoh would have would be replenishing the slaves.

    No matter how big the universe is, aliens coming to earth to have humans build random shyte stone works is just to far fetched too waste time on.

    So why are you wasting your time on it?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,988 ✭✭✭enno99


    shedweller wrote: »
    Actually, you hit on something there that has bothered me. If pharoes were buried in the valley of the kings, whats with the pyramids? The premise behind the valley of the kings was to hide the kings booty from looters. The pyramids throw this out the window!


    the valley of the kings was a later period
    the theory is that the pyramids were to easy prey for tomb robbers so they started going underground

    According to the Antiquities Minister Mamdouh el-Damaty, “The first tomb belonged to Emery, a high priest and administrative overseer of the royal court during the reign of Pharaoh Khufu (2589 B.C.-2566 B.C.) while the second belonged to Nefer bau Ptah, Emery’s eldest son who was an overseer of the royal estates and a superintendent of the royal palace during the 5th Dynasty (2494 B.C.-2345 B.C.)


    Kareem-Abdulkareem-202.jpg


    http://www.thecairopost.com/news/148084/culture/two-tombs-restored-opened-to-public-nearby-great-pyramid-at-giza

    they want you to believe that the high priests of the time were decorating their tombs and the king didnt
    I dont buy that



    polishing of the granite by liquid ? also looks at dating of objects could be misleading if text was added later


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,855 ✭✭✭Nabber


    So why are you wasting your time on it?

    This thread is not about Aliens, but they have been brought up on it and as direct reasons why history would be destroyed.
    Conspiracy theories are open to rebuttals as much as any other theory, as the alien theory comes with no more than 'we don't know how, therefore Aliens'. So a logical debunking of this is not apt. I put my opinion out on aliens, but the thread itself is something I'm interested in.

    I'm not saying aliens do or don't exist, but not on board with the ancient aliens.

    I'll take a step back from it tho. My last post was more offensive to ancient alien theorists than constructive, I also have nothing constructive to add to the alien theory or where the thread is going.

    I'll go back to just reading :)


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,029 ✭✭✭shedweller


    Torakx wrote: »
    It would be a futile exercise just for a cemetry or tomb alright!
    Or was the birth of the ego something that happened long ago and is getting gradually weaker, with regards it's effects on the will?
    More a philosophy question haha.
    And a psychology one regarding the pharoahs, IF they did indeed build those pyramids.
    Actually, you hit on something there that has bothered me. If pharoes were buried in the valley of the kings, whats with the pyramids? The premise behind the valley of the kings was to hide the kings booty from looters. The pyramids throw this out the window!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,988 ✭✭✭enno99




    a little more on the liquid polish and the inscriptions


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,831 ✭✭✭Torakx


    I'm a bit rusty on what is in the Valley of kings exactly. I presume the tombs must have been dated, as being built after the large pyramids.
    If those large pyramids were built first, and as tombs for pharoahs, they must of had a massive ego.
    http://americanmanifestobook.blogspot.ie/2012/09/the-history-of-ego.html
    Maybe it was the birth of the ego. A channeling of gods power(the sun), bringing his temple to earth in the form of a pyramid, that justifies this monument to power and possibly hierarchies turning later to secularism.

    Except as mentioned here I think, the great pyramid didn't have any decorations fitting such a whopping ego.
    That point might be argued, I am not sure. I thought I heard somewhere that the decorations were dated much later.
    EDIT: posted late, just saw the video Enno, pretty interesting!
    The idea that they worked it like clay seems plausible in some ways for me.

    From looking at that video on the heavy water and it creating hydrogen by splitting it away from H2O, I can see why someone would jump to those conclusions. Just looking at the schematics or tunnel sections. The angles of tunnels and the unnecesary walls and chambers. It is too smartly built to be random passagways or decoy traps. There is something else going on with that interior design.
    Maybe someday it will flood and we can see if it boots up again :D
    Going by his plans, once the hydrogen builds up, I think it is contained inside the system and used in a final chamber to combine again with oxygen and recycle.

    With a further stretch of the imagination, we might add in that power plant scenario, a form of reverse osmosis in that final chamber, filtering down as drinking water(maybe from salt water originally).


  • Registered Users Posts: 82,185 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Nabber wrote: »
    This thread is not about Aliens, but they have been brought up on it and as direct reasons why history would be destroyed.
    Conspiracy theories are open to rebuttals as much as any other theory, as the alien theory comes with no more than 'we don't know how, therefore Aliens'. So a logical debunking of this is not apt. I put my opinion out on aliens, but the thread itself is something I'm interested in.

    I'm not saying aliens do or don't exist, but not on board with the ancient aliens.

    I'll take a step back from it tho. My last post was more offensive to ancient alien theorists than constructive, I also have nothing constructive to add to the alien theory or where the thread is going.

    I'll go back to just reading :)

    I mean, the bronze-come-Iron age theory revolves around the core belief that humanity is exceptional and also have a purpose beyond earth. The way I read that anyway. I could see why it is believed, but I have reservations. What would an alien civilization gain from advancing the development of humans, for example.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,737 ✭✭✭✭degrassinoel


    most of the AA theory regarding this suggests (and this is offtopic, and not my field, just what i've seen on tv - and likely needs it's own thread, and maybe it does in paranormal or unex. mysteries) that human DNA was manipulated just enough to enhance intelligence so that humans could be used for menial labour, specifically the mining of gold - it pans off into other theories from there regarding planet X and annunaki etc..

    I'd be more interested in this topic's original though - as i personally think that there has been a systematic destruction of history, though i'm more inclined to believe it was a great flood or otherwise natural cataclysm that set us back hundreds if not thousands of years and may have happened on a large scale more than once

    Sunken cities across the Mediterranean and indian ocean, as well as great underwater ruins in asia can attest to the fact that we humans built those cities and have no history regarding some of them, then ye have the Atlantis myth which in a way corroborates that at least in mythology sunken and long forgotten civilizations existed on dry land and were built with human hands yet we have no history or very very little from the ones that do physically exist. And that's just the sunken ones, afaik Gobekli Tepe was buried, some south american ones were just abandoned for no apparent reason


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  • Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    enno99 wrote: »
    Well every architect I have ever seen interviewed has stated they would have difficulty replicating it that includes mainstream documentary's and alternative ones
    There's nothing difficult about the building of Gobekli tepe, it's limestone monoliths surrounded by a stone wall. Limestone can be cut quite easily with the flint tools they found all over the site. That's why most these ancient structures were made from soft stone.
    Torakx wrote: »
    It would be a futile exercise just for a cemetry or tomb alright!
    Or was the birth of the ego something that happened long ago and is getting gradually weaker, with regards it's effects on the will?
    More a philosophy question haha.
    And a psychology one regarding the pharoahs, IF they did indeed build those pyramids.
    The pyramids are the natural progression of gobekli tepe, all these sites are deal directly with death and are a sign of the beginnings of organised society. It would take some serious people management to make these temples, it shows that leaders were starting to exert power over larger groups of people.
    Nabber wrote: »
    The pyramids could have cost 100,000 in slaves, the only issue the pharaoh would have would be replenishing the slaves.
    The pyramids weren't built by slaves, they were built by conscripts. By all accounts being part of the building crew was highly desirable, they had the best food available in the country and eat like kings while they worked on the project. Most were very proud to be working on the burial tomb of their god.
    Sunken cities across the Mediterranean and indian ocean, as well as great underwater ruins in asia can attest to the fact that we humans built those cities and have no history regarding some of them, then ye have the Atlantis myth which in a way corroborates that at least in mythology sunken and long forgotten civilizations existed on dry land and were built with human hands yet we have no history or very very little from the ones that do physically exist. And that's just the sunken ones, afaik Gobekli Tepe was buried, some south american ones were just abandoned for no apparent reason
    the raising sea levels that followed the end of the ice age wouldn't have been an instantaneous event. It happens over the course of 400 years or more. So there would have been no walls of water driving people out of their cities. It would have been gradual allowing people to move out of their homes over the course of a few generations. So if records are missing it has nothing to do with rising sea levels wiping them out, they could easily have moved everything valuable to a new location.

    Gobekli tepe is an incredible temple site (not a city) it has forced us to rethink the accepted timeline of human civilization. We had thought farming lead to civilization and religion, but Gobekli tepe shows that it may have been religion and civilization that came first and farming was the solution to to the problems of living in large groups.

    This documentary talks about the site with the guy excavating it. I'd trust his view on the site much more than people second guessing it via the internet.



    He has some great theories about the site and it's significance in the history of civalisation and how it relates to the monuments that come after it.

    He also points out it's not the only site of it's kind, there are other like it and cities nearby. Gobekli tepe is simply the oldest site.


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    some south american ones were just abandoned for no apparent reason
    Cities abandoned in south America were abandoned for a range of reasons, mainly because of the global environmental changes brought on by the end of the ice age. Fertile areas becoming less fertile for example. Environmental change has driven humans since the very beginning. Environmental change caused us to walk upright and develop large brains when it wiped out our forest habitat. Environmental change opened up Europe and created the white man. Environmental change cut off Americans.

    Other reasons for failed cities would be a lack of understanding of soil nutrients, they would farm the land until the soil was stripped of nutrients, often coinciding with stripping the general area of biodiversity.

    Humans have had a substantial impact on every environment we've moved into, even before we had civilised society. It's quite likely humans lead to the extinction of many American species when they moved onto that continent. It could be argued the end of the ice age had a bigger impact, but those animals survived other ice ages without going extinct.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,100 ✭✭✭Autonomous Cowherd


    ScumLord wrote: »

    Other reasons for failed cities would be a lack of understanding of soil nutrients, they would farm the land until the soil was stripped of nutrients, often coinciding with stripping the general area of biodiversity.

    A lesson from history we would do well to remember now as we near the end of our global phosphate peak....


  • Registered Users Posts: 82,185 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    The pyramids weren't built by slaves, they were built by conscripts. By all accounts being part of the building crew was highly desirable, they had the best food available in the country and eat like kings while they worked on the project. Most were very proud to be working on the burial tomb of their god.
    Don't forget the beer. They were on a pretty liquid diet :)

    ... that probably contributed to a lot of the worksite fatalities...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,988 ✭✭✭enno99


    ScumLord wrote: »
    There's nothing difficult about the building of Gobekli tepe, it's limestone monoliths surrounded by a stone wall. Limestone can be cut quite easily with the flint tools they found all over the site. That's why most these ancient structures were made from soft stone.

    Sorry if you misunderstood the reply was re pyramids
    I thought the mention of Hawass in the paragraph would have made it clear as he is clueless about Gobleki Tepe

    I will watch the video when I get some time


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,988 ✭✭✭enno99


    ScumLord wrote: »

    Other reasons for failed cities would be a lack of understanding of soil nutrients, they would farm the land until the soil was stripped of nutrients, often coinciding with stripping the general area of biodiversity.

    Europe's first farmers helped spread a revolutionary way of living across the continent. They also spread something else. A new study reveals that these early agriculturalists were fertilizing their crops with manure 8000 years ago, thousands of years earlier than previously thought.

    http://news.sciencemag.org/2013/07/researchers-discover-first-use-fertilizer

    Maybe lots of stuff need to be reconsidered


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    enno99 wrote: »
    Sorry if you misunderstood the reply was re pyramids
    I thought the mention of Hawass in the paragraph would have made it clear as he is clueless about Gobleki Tepe

    I will watch the video when I get some time
    I wasn't exactly sure which you ment. But even with the pyramids they've found internal ramps with the remnants of a mechanism at the corners to turn the stones. A lot of archaeologists and engineers have come up with theories over the years, the theories are always getting better (better in the sense of more plausible), but their methods do show there are many ways of doing it. It's not impossible.

    We don't work with stone today the same way they did, they had thousands of years to develop techniques. We have to remember these people were as smart as us, they just didn't have the same mental toolkit.

    This video shows some ways of moving very large stones with minimum effort.



    While it may not be exactly how the egyptians did it, it shows that if you use creative thinking you can come up with ways of doing it.
    enno99 wrote: »
    Europe's first farmers helped spread a revolutionary way of living across the continent. They also spread something else. A new study reveals that these early agriculturalists were fertilizing their crops with manure 8000 years ago, thousands of years earlier than previously thought.

    http://news.sciencemag.org/2013/07/researchers-discover-first-use-fertilizer

    Maybe lots of stuff need to be reconsidered
    Definitely, I think historians have seriously underestimated ancient people. Modern science tells us they were at least as smart of us (if not slightly smarter, they had slightly bigger brains on average). The only difference with our generation is that we've had the benefit of all the hard work those people did.

    The problem with ancient people using fertilizer is they didn't really understand what they were doing. It would have either been a mistake or an observation taken over a long time (maybe they had a version of recorded science to test these things? They wouldn't have known about the science of it though. They probably thought they were pleasing some god by doing it. It's a very different way of thinking to the modern scientific way.


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    Actually. In all my searching for references during this thread I'd say if there was a conspiracy to cover up history then I'd point the finger at google. Maybe it's just googles reaction to me but I've found that any searches into ancient cultures always brings up ancient alien or some other barney theories. I have to get very specific with searches to get real historical information uncorrupted by nonsense. I guess it's somewhat forgivable on youtube because the content is generated by people who can have whatever theories they want but it's surprising how much of this stuff is put in front of people by google.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,100 ✭✭✭Autonomous Cowherd


    'Google scholar' can be useful sometimes, ScumLord, though many are extracts, but i know what you mean. I guess Google follows most popular hits?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,029 ✭✭✭shedweller


    I remember having to "minus" an awful lot of things to find what i wanted on google!


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,988 ✭✭✭enno99


    The fact they are there tells us its not impossible
    The inner ramp theory is one of the better ones
    I dont recall them finding any remnants of mechanisms I will have to look at it again
    The part I find hard to swallow is the timeline 20 years
    Placing 1 block every 2 mins


    Building the Great Pyramid in 20 years—the commonly accepted time frame—would have required placing 1.1 blocks in their final resting place every two minutes, over a work schedule of 365 days a year, if the block-laying were continuous for 10 hours per day. Additional imponderables are the time and effort involved in quarrying that many stones and transporting them to the site, some from a quarry 8 miles (12.8 km) away across the river and others from a quarry more than five hundred miles (800 km) away; preparing the 13-acre site (5.2 hectares) to host the pyramid would have been its own major feat, and all would have needed to be carefully coordinated. A number of alternative theories have been proposed to explain how the Great Pyramid was built.

    Many varied estimates have been made regarding the workforce needed to construct the Great Pyramid. Herodotus, the Greek historian in the fifth century B.C.E., estimated that construction may have required 100,000 workers for 20 years. Recent evidence has been found that suggests the workforce was paid, which would require accounting and bureaucratic skills of a high order

    A construction-management study (testing) carried out by the firm Daniel, Mann, Johnson, & Mendenhall in association with Mark Lehner and other Egyptologists, estimated that the total project required an average workforce of 14,567 people and a peak workforce of 40,000. Without the use of pulleys, wheels, or iron tools, they surmise the Great Pyramid was completed from start to finish in approximately ten years.


    In contrast, a Great Pyramid feasibility study relating to the quarrying of the stone was performed in 1978 by Technical Director Merle Booker of the Indiana Limestone Institute of America. The institute is considered by many architects to be one of the world’s leading authorities on limestone as it comprises 33 quarries plus research facilities. Using modern equipment, the study concluded:

    “Utilizing the entire Indiana Limestone industry’s facilities as they now stand [for 33 quarries], and figuring on tripling present average production, it would take approximately 27 years to quarry, fabricate and ship the total requirements.” [2]


    http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/p/index.php?title=Great_Pyramid_of_Giza

    Unresolved secrets of the pyramids



    If you havent seen this and are interested in this stuff its worth a look
    It takes in all the ancients sites Giza /Peru /Easter island


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,988 ✭✭✭enno99


    TORONTO — Archaeologists working near the ancient settlement of Edfu, in southern Egypt, have uncovered a step pyramid that dates back about 4,600 years, predating the Great Pyramid of Giza by at least a few decades.

    http://www.guardians.net/egypt/index.html


    From this

    step-pyramid-9.jpg?1391120035


    To this

    Great+Pyramid+of+Giza+01a.jpg


    In about 30 to 40 years
    I think someone is taking the piss

    (Sorry about the size)


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    enno99 wrote: »
    From this


    To this
    You're still focusing on two examples and ignoring everything else to come to the conclusion that they went from simple to difficult in one leap.

    I haven't really looked into that new pyramid but they could be built by two separate egyptian cultures, one rich, one not so rich. There are over 100 pyramids (that we know of) in egypt. You also have to take into account that they were not just building pyramids, they were building incredible walled cities, huge water infrastructures like dams. So they were clearly master craftsmen and each project they took on would have been a learning experience.

    One guy thinks they used water to build which explains the salt found on the building site.



    I think this method of building is probably more elaborate than the pyramids themselves but still well within their abilities, especially after they started working with dams.

    Other things you have to take into account is there social structure, they didn't have an economy like ours, it was entirely different and probably not as restrictive as ours is today. It's very difficult for us to get into their mindset and figure out what they're capable of.

    We have so many people coming up with so many workable theories as a hobby that I think Egyptians that did this for a living were bound to be able to come up with equivalent or quite possibly better methods than we can come up with.

    Remember, ancient people were at least as smart as us. They were probably obsessed with the new art of monument building to the point they wanted to do nothing other than create fantastic monuments and they were one of the first civilizations with the means to create these things. A new monument being built would probably attract the best and brightest from miles around as people wanted to get involved in these things.


  • Registered Users Posts: 82,185 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    I'm sure if future archaeologists found our ruins and compared the Hoover Dam to the Three Gorges Dam or to a smaller Dam made around the same era, they might reach a similar erroneous conclusion about a linear development path.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,988 ✭✭✭enno99


    the pyramid is credited to Sneferu the father of Khufu (the great pyramid builder}or pharoh huni
    If it was Sneferu apparently he built 7 of these pyramids and none were tombs
    He also built The maidum pyramid ,The bent pyramid,The red pyramid in his 30 or so year reign


    Either way your looking at decades not centuries not very long to develop such spectacular building skills that still baffle us today

    As for dams only one I can find from the period is

    Sadd-el-Kafara Dam

    The dam was built during the 4th dynasty with a probable construction time of 10 to 12 years, but an unusually strong flood caused the erosion of the dam before it was completed. The flood wave destroyed much of the downstream valley. A reconstruction seems not to have taken place.

    http://en.structurae.de/structures/sadd-el-kafara-dam

    From wiki

    Because of erosion on the downstream face of the incomplete dam and its lack of a spillway, it is believed that a flood destroyed it. In addition, there was no evidence of a trench or tunnel that would have diverted water in the wadi around the construction site. Construction on the upstream side of the dam was mostly complete but the downstream side was much less developed. The crest of the dam sloped towards the center which the engineers may have intended to use as a spillway. However, as the top of the dam was not beheaded and was not protected from flood water that would over-top the crest. The dam's proximity to the fertile Nile River and distance from populations indicates it was built for protection against such events, similar to those that still occur today.[3] If complete, the dam would have stored 465,000 m3 (16,400,000 cu ft) – 625,000 m3 (22,100,000 cu ft) of water and flooding would have caused the reservoir to flood into adjacent parallel wadis. The dam's failure likely made Egyptian engineers reluctant to construct another for nearly eight centuries.[2]


    Epic fail by all accounts

    You would wonder why they didnt use this new found knowledge of super structures and apply it to creating a dam

    Perhaps the knowledge was from an earlier time and they were as baffled as we are today


  • Registered Users Posts: 82,185 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Probably just didn't want to build a new dam for the same reason so many people were reluctant/critical of building new skyscrapers to replace the world trade center towers.

    Anyway the point I was trying to raise about dams is it may well have been the ancient era equivalent of our leap from the first flight to the first man on the moon - in just 63 years [1903 - 1969].


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,988 ✭✭✭enno99


    Overheal wrote: »
    Probably just didn't want to build a new dam for the same reason so many people were reluctant/critical of building new skyscrapers to replace the world trade center towers.

    Anyway the point I was trying to raise about dams is it may well have been the ancient era equivalent of our leap from the first flight to the first man on the moon - in just 63 years [1903 - 1969].

    Sorry I wasn't referring to your post re dams

    It was in Scumlords post
    they were building incredible walled cities, huge water infrastructures like dams

    I understand what you were saying about the dams I haven't looked to see if the construction technique and the materials were were different
    I take your point about flight and moon landing ( if we really did )but that's a
    whole other ballgame lol
    I would argue that it evolved from a world wide effort where as the Egyptians only had the pharaoh his architect and maybe a few others to brainstorm no outside influence or help so we are told
    There are just too many things about that period that dont add up The sphinx itself The temple and the stone work used the weathering on the enclosure etc


    But the dam was important they spent 12 yrs trying why give up when they mastered building super structures ?
    people could get by in new york without another skyscraper


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    enno99 wrote: »
    Epic fail by all accounts

    You would wonder why they didnt use this new found knowledge of super structures and apply it to creating a dam

    Perhaps the knowledge was from an earlier time and they were as baffled as we are today
    We don't have any evidence that they made another major dam for a while but they would be managing water for farming, building reservoirs and irrigation canals. So they must be making some form of dams, it was part of their farming culture.

    EDIT: The thing you have to remember is that we're lucky to have the likes of Giza in such good nick. It's only the fact it got buried under a desert that there's so much for us to see. I watched the opening of a tomb opened recently on youtube and even though it was untouched by man and perfectly sealed things got inside, termites disintegrated a lot of timber, molds and fugui destroyed other things, bacteria did they're bit. If you take gobekli tepe a site purposely buried by it's makers it still didn't make it through the millennia unscathed. Nature is great at reducing any signs of our history into a smear, even those made of stone.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,988 ✭✭✭enno99


    The book, Ancient Celtic New Zealand, featured an official archival document, which clearly showed an intention, by New Zealand Government Departments, to withhold archaeological information from the public for a period of 75 years.
    Since publication of the book, many indignant people have written to the National Archives for an explanation as to why such an embargo had been put in place. They have questioned the legality of such imposed restrictions and have contacted their Members of Parliament to force a release of any information still being withheld.
    This author and others, simply wish to inform the public that, in New Zealand, archaeological information, artefacts and skeletal evidence can be deemed secret, with knowledge deliberately withheld in the perceived interests of government policy
    .

    This document is very clearly imposing a restriction on certain information related to the extensive and very expensive archaeological excavations conducted in the Waipoua Forest between the late nineteen-seventies until the late nineteen-eighties. Despite the fact that public money funded the entire archaeological probe, certain information was categorised as not appropriate for general consumption or scrutiny and was to be locked away until a time when all contemporary adult members of the public were long dead and buried...why?

    http://www.celticnz.co.nz/embargo_saga.html

    this is from a few years back but interesting
    You would have to wonder what is really being covered up


    Re ancient Egypt I got to wondering who is feeding us the main stream narrative
    From Napoleon early on we have masonic influence all over the place I will try to put together some links

    might be better for another thread


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  • Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    enno99 wrote: »
    this is from a few years back but interesting
    You would have to wonder what is really being covered up
    It could very well be white Europeans covering up non European civilizations, as has happened all over Africa. For the longest time when Europeans went back to Africa in the 18th century on if they found any evidence of powerful civilizations IE: large buildings and evidence of infrastructure. They assumed it must have been some lost ancient European civilization, they assumed it was more likely to be some wandering Greeks than local Africans being able to build large cities. This still happens today, with White people using a false assertion that an apparent lack of ancient African structures legitimises their claim that south Africa was essentially barren of human life before they got there, so whites have every right to stay because they got to the land first.

    It's all nonsense though and most of ancient Africa was dug up in a desperate attempt to find the original Greek culture they assumed started the building.

    Given Australia's history of racism and they're proximity to New Zealand, it wouldn't surprise me if something similar was happening. If there is actually an embargo it could be because whites didn't want to legitimise the indigenous peoples claims to the island, and paint them as simple tribes people that had little to no culture. And maybe the reason the embargo continues is because no politician wants to deal with an undercurrent of racism.

    Re ancient Egypt I got to wondering who is feeding us the main stream narrative
    They're called archaeologists. College educated, certified, peer reviewed and experienced professionals that stake their reputation on finding the truth.


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