Cyberpunk - CD Project Red

Robert ninja

Vulkan would make it run on Windows 7, 8, 10 and even linux with proton/wine. Choosing DX12 was purely done because of Microsoft influence with no real benefit to the customer, just like near every DX12 title. It deserves none of these excuses.

As for the hardware talk... that's not my issue but this is releasing on 8th gen consoles. Hardware that was 2 years behind what was available during their 2014 release date. Absolutely no excuse for not running on budget and midrange PCs. Personally I'm able to play damn near any modern title with my system so it's not a horsepower issue.

Varik

So it's just the Linux incompatibility issue.

Cordell

I think raytracing and DLSS2.0 is more likely the cause that PC version is DX12 rather than Vulkan. Since these features will only be available on NVidia cards and so far all titles (except Wolfenstein YB but that's a particular case) that were heavy on them were DX12 it makes sense to expect this to be DX12 as well.
The Vulkan Stadia build will not have RT.

Rob2D

Varik wrote: »

So it's just the Linux incompatibility issue.

Which should be a big issue in this day and age. Games are the only reason I have to run windows anymore.

Even at work, Debian is my daily driver. When I'm not doing CAD drawing that is.

Robert ninja

Varik wrote: »

but anyone using Linux shouldn't never expect anything.

Yeah shouldn't expect CDPR to listen to their customer's requests. Again, the only thing they really listen to are their investors... whom will never under any circumstances say no to the bags of money Nvidia and Microsoft throw at them.

Cordell wrote: »

I think raytracing and DLSS2.0 is more likely the cause that PC version is DX12 rather than Vulkan. Since these features will only be available on NVidia cards and so far all titles (except Wolfenstein YB but that's a particular case) that were heavy on them were DX12 it makes sense to expect this to be DX12 as well.
The Vulkan Stadia build will not have RT.

You might be right. But at the same time these features are completely optional and not 1:1 available on consoles, which all of 8th and 9th gen combined are surely the majority. So they're obviously absolutely fine with players experiencing the game without them. Not to mention even if I had ray tracing hardware I wouldn't use it. I don't fancy losing 100fps so some doorknob reflects the room. I don't even like "High" setting on shadows in modern games because it makes them look too sharp. "Low" shadows legit look more realistic to me, at least for the games I've played. For every game that has DX12 and DX11 options I've seen just as many users say they choose DX11 for compatibility or performance as those who say the same for DX12. It really isn't all that hot shyte for your standard user.

Cordell wrote: »

If your system is unable to run DX12 is either because it's too old and you won't be able to properly enjoy it anyway,

So I guess PS4/5 players won't experience the game properly then.

Homelander

Rob2D wrote: »

Which should be a big issue in this day and age. Games are the only reason I have to run windows anymore.

Should it though? Personally I can't see why it should be a big deal that AAA developers aren't catering to a platform that about 0.5% of Steam users run.

dreamers75

I personally think no game developer should give a **** about Linux

CatInABox

dreamers75 wrote: »

I personally think no game developer should give a **** about Linux

Yeah, can't remember who it was, but one developer came out and said they wouldn't be supporting Linux from now on, because it comprised less than 5% of their sales, but accounted from more than 70% of their issues.

It's a nice idea, and the bigger software houses can probably support it, but the smaller ones can't really afford to support a platform that's so anaemic in terms of sales.

Cordell

Robert ninja wrote: »

Yeah shouldn't expect CDPR to listen to their customer's requests. Again, the only thing they really listen to are their investors... whom will never under any circumstances say no to the bags of money Nvidia and Microsoft throw at them.

I don't think there were any bags of money. For the PC market they want the best in terms of quality and that means DX12, that's a purely techical argument.

Robert ninja wrote: »

You might be right. But at the same time these features are completely optional and not 1:1 available on consoles, which all of 8th and 9th gen combined are surely the majority. So they're obviously absolutely fine with players experiencing the game without them. Not to mention even if I had ray tracing hardware I wouldn't use it. I don't fancy losing 100fps so some doorknob reflects the room. I don't even like "High" setting on shadows in modern games because it makes them look too sharp. "Low" shadows legit look more realistic to me, at least for the games I've played. For every game that has DX12 and DX11 options I've seen just as many users say they choose DX11 for compatibility or performance as those who say the same for DX12. It really isn't all that hot shyte for your standard user.

With DX12 you have the option to see the knob's reflection if you want to.
Compatibility issues are not an issue anymore, except maybe in game engines in which DX12 support was added afterwards, and this was also true for Vulkan in the past - DOOM 2016 had problems with Vulkan, it was not supported from the start and there were issues for a few updates.

Robert ninja wrote: »

So I guess PS4/5 players won't experience the game properly then.

Not my point, but yes, PS4 users will get a subpar experience. But the GPUs in both can run DX12 when used in non PS systems.

pixelburp

Back when it was still a thing, I worked on mobile app for Android, iOS... ... and Blackberry lol. Like the above it counted for < 5% of users but the majority of rolling issues. We eventually made the decision to drop support altogether cos it wasn't worth it.

I'd be honestly kinda shocked any serious game dev even contemplates Linux support, unless the expertise is already there and is done as a "for me" side project. A collosal waste of time and resources for the sake of an admittedly vocal community.

Robert ninja

Apologies in advance for the wall-o-text

CatInABox wrote: »

5% of their sales, but accounted from more than 70% of their issues.

It's possible this is just another statistical bias similar to survivorship bias. Users on linux are more likely to actually submit bug reports and therefore make it seem like there's significant issues with the platform. How many times did a windows game crash on you in your life vs how many times you submitted a bug report with logs (if you even know where to find Windows logs)? Think about it.

It reminds when GNU/Linux was recently reported to to be the least secure OS out there (to the facepalm of every security researcher on the planet) simply because the statistics made it seem like it had the most vulnerabilities when in fact it simply had the most known and reported vulnerabilities, dwarfing other platforms that don't know/report their vulnerabilities, outright hide/deny them from their users or some other factors relating to source code availability.

CatInABox wrote: »

they want the best in terms of quality

By what metric is this "quality" judged? Not working is as far from quality as it gets.

Cordell wrote: »

I don't think there were any bags of money.

Not trying to be condescending but you're naive of Direct X and Microsoft's practices. I don't think there's been a single development team to date that wanted to use DX12 by their own volition. Its all been power plays and business deals between publishers and Microsoft. This is what MC have always done to muscle industries into adopting their junk. I suggest a little reading on Microsoft's history and anti-trust shenanigans as well as their blatant panic copying of Vulkan. They really haven't moved on from those days if you observe their behavior.

Cordell wrote: »

But the GPUs in both can run DX12 when used in non PS systems.

And CDPR could release their non-DX12 version of the game.

Cordell wrote: »

DOOM 2016 had problems with Vulkan, it was not supported from the start and there were issues for a few updates.

DOOM's problems with Vulkan were from not supporting it from the start. The solution? Use it from the start. Its Vulkan implementation is on par or superior to its DX12 implementation now. Most benchmarks across many games show parity, insignificant differences or Vulkan advantages.

pixelburp wrote: »

I'd be honestly kinda shocked any serious game dev even contemplates Linux support, unless the expertise is already there and is done as a "for me" side project. A collosal waste of time and resources for the sake of an admittedly vocal community.

There's more games released with linux support than there are games total released on every Playstation console combined. Perhaps your shock comes from comparing Linux, the backbone to tech infrastructure to a dime a dozen phone platform that never hit critical mass. Not denying your experience with blackberry but it's just a comparison that doesn't work.

But let me clear up something pretty crucial in case anyone is getting the wrong idea. I have (and had) zero expectation of native linux support for Cyberpunk. Not for the 7 years I've been waiting for it. What I did expect is for it to be playable in the same vein that Doom, Kingdom Come, Hitman and a plethora of other titles are playable: wine and Proton. Which they've made sure isn't going to happen thanks refusing to release their Vulkan build and forcing their DX12 build for MC.

Cordell

Not trying to be condescending

But succeeding nevertheless.

And CDPR could release their non-DX12 version of the game.

It will cost them more than the potential revenue. Yes, there are some customers that will only buy the linux version, but some of those demanding a linux version will buy the Windows (or console) release. So it's a very tiny minority that tbh doesn't deserve the time and effort - when you appreciate a game you will buy it on whatever platform works for you, but you are going out of your way to have a non supported platform. Your choice, your business, I'm not discussing it any further. I am happy with whatever API they choose and I'm happy that they are going release it with RT and DLSS2.0 features.

J. Marston

Enough tech mumbo-jumbo, PC nerds.

They may be adding a second vagina option to be in line with the two penis options.

Cordell

Cool, so it wasn't for nothing that we covered the knobs and their reflections in previous posts

Robert ninja

Cordell wrote: »

It will cost them more than the potential revenue.

I somehow doubt clicking upload on a steam developer window would somehow cost them €529K (the € amount of official requests for the linux build on GOG alone).

J. Marston wrote: »

Enough tech mumbo-jumbo, PC nerds.

Technology and corporate corruption is as Cyberpunk as it gets, console pleb.

Cordell

Most of those requesting linux will buy the whatever release they get, so it's probably more like €600 of lost revenue.

EoinMcLovin

https://twitter.com/CyberpunkGame/status/1291358415885926400?s=19

Robert ninja

Stream's on right now https://www.twitch.tv/cdprojektred

JimBurnley

That clip of the different weapon types looks damn cool

Robert ninja

Odd that 'Power' firearms ricochet and 'Tech' weapons cover pierce. Seems like it should be the other way around... actually I'm surprised bullet penetration isn't based on the power or caliber of the bullet vs the surface it hits. But I guess it's an RPG not a mili sim.

EoinMcLovin

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vylm7zrPnq0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBubm99sHEE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNTTLEQyCQk

ERG89

These Night City Wire's are so sanitised and devoid of personality I feel like I watched something that EA/Ubisoft would put out oblivious to how it comes across as robotic.

johnny_ultimate

The Phantom Pain wrote: »

Did nothing for me I'm afraid.
I feel like at this point I just have to wait for the game to be released as all marketing has failed to live up to that great first 45 minute preview they first released.

Aye, I'm continuing to be pretty indifferent to what they're showing. I mean, the gun system seems pretty cool for sure, but I'd be hoping for a lot more from this game than some cool shooting.

I have no doubt it's hard to sell a long-form game in short bursts - especially for a game boasting of choice and customisability to the extent this is. But the story trailers specifically have been pretty bland affairs, other than obviously being technically gorgeous and laden with detail.

SomeSayKos

I must say I don't like the format of these Night City updates. The interviews seems kinda redundant but it's cool to see more of the game all the same. I like how they're not giving too much of the story away also.
I thought the weapons seemed cool and I like the lifepath element. Think I'm going to play as a corpo for my first playthrough.

Zero-Cool

Corp looks interesting as the road less traveled but between NFS Underground races in Streetkid or mad maxing it in Nomad, I'm gonna go with one of those but still undecided which first.

mewso

Yeah I'm feeling the same about these Night City Wire things. Not really doing it for me, particularly the fake journalism approach ("I have a couple of more questions for you if you are up for it?" says the CDPR employee to the CDPR employee in the CDPR written and produced video). More videos of simply wandering the world a la the first big demo they did would help I think.

I'm positive this will be a good game but like any big company (which they now most certainly are) they have taken on some of the modern approaches that we associate more with the big publication houses and these episodes are a good example as well as streaming songs (meh) and fake interviews etc.

If I had one major gripe with Witcher 3 it was cut scenes out the wazzo and I've seen nothing to make me think this won't be the same. I love me a good cut scene but sometimes in the Witcher 3 I found myself saying "get on with it" and as much as I expect this game to be excellent I expect to have to grin and bear far too many cut scenes along the way.

Penn

My issue with The Witcher 3 was the insane padding in the middle of the game where you have to find a guy to find a guy to find a guy to find a guy to find a guy to find a guy who knows where Ciri is and then he doesn't know where Ciri is.

As good as many of the side stories and characters were, so much of the story felt like running to stand still.

Cordell

It was all about the journey, not the destination

Penn

Cordell wrote: »

It was all about the journey, not the destination

I'd not only ask for a refund on that satnav, but also compensation for the extra mileage, regardless of how nice the scenery was.