RDP12 Final - Leinster v Ospreys 27/05/12 - KO 4pm - RTE/TG4/S4C

phog

I've just seen Isa's first try and while Osprey's didn't cover themsleves in glory it was awesome, Shane Horgan must be jealous as never got one so handy, grab the restart and jog to the try line, so simple.

Rigor Mortis

donfers wrote: »

I agree with you, great season from Leinster but Ospreys thoroughly deserved this win

we all know poite is an erratic referee, both teams can point to strange decisions that went against them - having a player sinbinned doesn't lose you a game, failing to tackle shane williams as he closes in on your line loses you games and my god dan biggar - what a pressure conversion that was - hats off to you young man

While i think Poite made mistakes on both sides, the claim that sinbins do not lose games i think does not stand up to scrutiny. The following analysis below gives an indication of the importance of sinbinning.

It is impossible to prove one way or the other whether the sin bins cost the match, I believe they did, but history does show a pretty strong correlation in terms of points scored. These figures would suggest 9.6 points from the two binnings, that in a one point game!



RBS 6 Nations from 2000-2011, and what scoring was achieved by either side during periods when it was not 15-a-side, the average number of points scored during a ten minute session of inequality is 6.18. In addition teams also manage to score an average of 1.39 points themselves during a sinbin period, making the net worth 4.79 points per yellow card.

Tim Robbins

donfers wrote: »

best teams in europe are leinster, clermont, toulouse, quins and ospreys and leinster are top at the moment but the gaps between all these sides are not so big as some might have you believe as proved by results between them being decided by stuff like balls not being grounded properly and sideline conversions

no doubt leinster are top dogs in europe right now but there are five or six within shooting distance

+1 I'd agree with that. I think teams realise that if you can stop Leinster getting quick ball you can stop a lot of their play.

Morf

Tim Robbins wrote: »

+1 I'd agree with that. I think teams realise that if you can stop Leinster getting quick ball you can stop a lot of their play.

Poite doesn't referee the breakdown at all. Leinster should have been much better clearing out (with Thorn on from the start). The defence from Leinster was generally poor, we lost most of the collisions. Still gutted though.

Richard Hillman

Disappointed for the players. It seemed like a bridge too far. Cian Healy was massively missed today. The game turned when Dominic Ryan gave away the penalty for crossing. Leinster were about to finish them off then he gave away the penalty needlessly. Major character building moment for him.

Fair play to the Ospreys, they stuck at it all day and never gave in. Delighted for Shane Williams in particular.

matthew8

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Disappointed for the players. It seemed like a bridge too far. Cian Healy was massively missed today. The game turned when Dominic Ryan gave away the penalty for crossing. Leinster were about to finish them off then he gave away the penalty needlessly. Major character building moment for him.

Fair play to the Ospreys, they stuck at it all day and never gave in. Delighted for Shane Williams in particular.

It looked to me like Sean Cronin was at fault.

Fishooks12

matthew8 wrote: »

It looked to me like Sean Cronin was at fault.

D Ryan over ran Cronin

Cronin even tried to double round when he realised what Ryan had done but to no avail

fitz

matthew8 wrote: »

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Disappointed for the players. It seemed like a bridge too far. Cian Healy was massively missed today. The game turned when Dominic Ryan gave away the penalty for crossing. Leinster were about to finish them off then he gave away the penalty needlessly. Major character building moment for him.

Fair play to the Ospreys, they stuck at it all day and never gave in. Delighted for Shane Williams in particular.

It looked to me like Sean Cronin was at fault.

I thought the same, should have given the pass, but one way or another, that wasn't the turning point. The unwarranted binning of White was when Ospreys tails really went up as they looked to capitalise on the extra man.

uriah

Dravokivich wrote: »

It wasn't the whistle, it wasn't the ospreys, it was the ref I was booing at.

What the TV audience heard was Leinster fans booing.
They didn't know you were booing the referee.
Not a good thing to hear.

duckysauce

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Disappointed for the players. It seemed like a bridge too far. Cian Healy was massively missed today. The game turned when Dominic Ryan gave away the penalty for crossing. Leinster were about to finish them off then he gave away the penalty needlessly. Major character building moment for him.

Fair play to the Ospreys, they stuck at it all day and never gave in. Delighted for Shane Williams in particular.

game turned with the second binning .

BarackPyjama

uriah wrote: »

What the TV audience heard was Leinster fans booing.
They didn't know you were booing the referee.
Not a good thing to hear.

Get over yourself. This holier-than-thou, squeaky clean Irish rugby supporter nonsense is absolute bulls**t. If the ref makes a s**ty call, why not boo him? Because we're some kind of aristocratic sports fans? Go to a few games in the South of France. You might learn a few things.

Madworld

Has anybody found the highlights of the game online.

In particular there was one kick which I was certain didnt go over the posts.

Morf

Madworld wrote: »

Has anybody found the highlights of the game online.

In particular there was one kick which I was certain didnt go over the posts.

I watched it back there and it certainly didn't look like it either.

funky penguin

Lord I was shouting bloody murder at the ref (didn't help that it was 2am, I was drunk and had stayed up knowing full well I had to get up for work at 6......).

But it's done, and such is sport I suppose. We'll learn from it, and be better for it.

Twas only a point, and I for one cannot wait till we play those talented bastards again.

rrpc

Disappointing result, but a cracking match. It can't get any closer than that for a win. The result was in doubt right up to the last second, that's drama!

I think I pointed out in my intro that this was the only team to have beaten us home and away this year. Well they've done it again and fair play to them. I couldn't help smiling when Williams went over for his second try. If ever a guy deserved to bow out on a high, it's Ickle, absolute legend and one of the best try scorers ever.

Gutted for the lads though, I think it again shows why the European and domestic doubles are so hard to get. The guys looked tired, mentally tired rather than particularly physically so, although playing 20 minutes with 14 men doesn't help.

I'll have to look at it again (when I can bear to ) but it seemed that Ospreys had a neat trick of getting a decoy runner just past the gain line to take a forward pass from the ball carrier. It was done so quickly that the first time, I wasn't sure, but it struck me that they seemed to be getting those passes away without any real tackle being made; and although that's not impossible, it's not something you do a lot of and certainly not against Leinster. It's a slight variation on their previous use of decoy runners to hold a defender and open space. If so, brilliant piece of work by them... again

Scrums... Oh dear! There's something wrong when a facet of play is still unfathomable after numerous replays and slo-mos. I felt sorry for Poite before half time because he'd dug himself into a hole and just couldn't get out of it. In the end he caved and gave a penalty to Leinster, but if he'd given one the other way, nobody would be any wiser either. If the idea is that both teams are unhappy with those decisions, then his work was done :rolleyes:. There were a lot of scrums where the shove went on before the ball was in, one in particular where the SH had to do a nifty side-skip to actually put the ball in and Poite let it go. Saw something similar in the match de barrage between Montpellier and Castres where Castres actually pushed Montpellier back a metre, the ball never went in and the ref gave a penalty to Castres . He was on the opposite side to the SH as well!

Clearly one of the facets of play that needs a lot more work than just changing the command sequence.

I think if Kidney was asked, he'd have said Leinster played too much rugby in their own half. Like a stopped clock, I feel he might be right on this occasion

Fishooks12

Morf wrote: »

I watched it back there and it certainly didn't look like it either.

It went over alright, drifted left after though

GerM

On reflection, a very disappointing result owing 30% to bad luck and 70% to bad play. You can’t prepare for losing both your first choice props for a match but Leinster still should have won with the struggling scrum. To beat the Ospreys, you dictate the game and don’t let them lift the tempo. Keep proceedings tight, get your set piece right and defend well. Leinster didn’t do these things in the second half. The conceded tries were awful ones to let in and Schmidt will be gutted to see the team opened up through the middle as they were so early in the second half. The players looked asleep.

The decision to go wide in the closing seconds was a very poor one. Ospreys always prey on loose play, getting opposition players isolated and turning them over. That was playing into their hands perfectly and I suspect they couldn’t believe their luck when two Leinster backs ploughed into about 5 of them, 30 yards from their support. Very naive stuff.

A real smash and grab win for the Ospreys who have been excellent this season and deserve a huge amount of credit for how they’ve turned themselves around. If winning the double was easy, everyone would do it. Galling given the fact that Leinster were the best side throughout the season. There has been multiple occasions when a side has reached the finals of both the HEC and their domestic tournaments but it’s extremely hard to maintain focus and energy levels on two fronts at the end if the other team has 100% focus on one game.

Teg Veece

Quint2010 wrote: »

I was calling Leinster's the final performance the greatest ever because of 3 things:

Greatest cumulative score.
Greatest winning margin.
Most tries scored.

Now it's hard to argue with those stats.

And of course everyone remembers Hong Kong's 164 -13 thrashing of Singapore in 1994 as the greatest rugby performance of all time.

totallegend

GerM wrote: »

The decision to go wide in the closing seconds was a very poor one. Ospreys always prey on loose play, getting opposition players isolated and turning them over. That was playing into their hands perfectly and I suspect they couldn’t believe their luck when two Leinster backs ploughed into about 5 of them, 30 yards from their support. Very naive stuff.

They should have been driving straight up the middle with bigger guys like Thorn, Heaslip and VDM taking it on and making yards for the drop-goal attempt. Sexton should have been screaming at his forwards to keep it tight and he himself should have been nowhere near the contact zone, but it just looked like he didn't fancy it.
I wonder if the absence of Cullen played a part here, maybe we just needed someone to take control of the situation and get everyone doing the same thing.

Fishooks12

totallegend wrote: »

They should have been driving straight up the middle with bigger guys like Thorn, Heaslip and VDM taking it on and making yards for the drop-goal attempt. Sexton should have been screaming at his forwards to keep it tight and he himself should have been nowhere near the contact zone, but it just looked like he didn't fancy it.
I wonder if the absence of Cullen played a part here, maybe we just needed someone to take control of the situation and get everyone doing the same thing.

Going up the middle was working too, making the decision to go wide even more baffling !

I thought there was a stage when Thorn made good yardage that it came into Sextons range. Cronin got driven back on the next pick though

rrpc

totallegend wrote: »

They should have been driving straight up the middle with bigger guys like Thorn, Heaslip and VDM taking it on and making yards for the drop-goal attempt. Sexton should have been screaming at his forwards to keep it tight and he himself should have been nowhere near the contact zone, but it just looked like he didn't fancy it.
I wonder if the absence of Cullen played a part here, maybe we just needed someone to take control of the situation and get everyone doing the same thing.

Sexton was one of those I thought looked mentally drained. Just wasn't at his sharpest and didn't have that competitive edge he normally displays in these types of encounters. Losing Boss was a big blow, because good and all as Cooney looked in the HEC final, he was behind a marauding pack. Reddan was knackered and had to play on long past his normal retirement time.

The criticism of that wide play at the end, I think is a little bit of hindsight. They'd carried it up tight for multiple phases and little gain in ground. The problem was that when it went wide, the forwards weren't quick enough following the play and left the ball carriers isolated. All part of the fatigue element really. The game should have been closed out a good bit earlier.

irishbucsfan

Cullen and Toner are not a good scrummaging second row partnership. When you couple that with the Healy and Ross injury and Cronin starting we were always going to struggle in the scrums.

leftleg

Leinster looked knackered by the end; out on their feet; Os were much fresher and it showed at the end as Leinster were struggling. Good steal after the line out from Dom Ryan at the end.

prospect

Fair play to Ospreys, what a game.

Williams, what a player.

BoardsMember

Are people forgetting that we had 6 forwards versus 8 in the last 5 minutes or so? That had to have had an impact on decision making regarding taking it up the middle.

bamboozle

BoardsMember wrote: »

Are people forgetting that we had 6 forwards versus 8 in the last 5 minutes or so? That had to have had an impact on decision making regarding taking it up the middle.

fair enough but flinging it wide was silly, all Reddan had to do was work it up the middle, fair enough we were men down in the pack, all the more reason darcy & BOD should have been used to truck it up the 10/12 channel.

thought Reddan's control in the last 5 was very poor.

Still, no complaints with an Ospreys win. Great performance by Bigger and hats off to Shane Williams & thanks for the memories!

.ak

Absolutely gutted at the loss. Just goes to show how hard it is to do the double, and why it's so rare. Atleast we have another target to hit next season.

Not to sound bitter or anything, but just to clarify on the boo'ing at the end of the match. I was in the grandstand after we turned the ball over in stoppage time. We played tight and tried to move up the midfield - I was right on the gainline. At EVERY phase there was Osprey players well offside. The crowd knew it, and I think Poite knew it. But he didn't want to award any pen's that could sway the game. He bottled it and the crowd were justifiably enraged by it. Ofcourse then we played some dumb rugby and threw the ball wide.

Rant over; as a neutral this would've been a fantastic game to watch. Fair play to the Ospreys, great game. Although I would've preferred to lose to anyone else, just because of the 2010 win...

Quint2010

Teg Veece wrote: »

And of course everyone remembers Hong Kong's 164 -13 thrashing of Singapore in 1994 as the greatest rugby performance of all time.

Didn't say rugby performance. Was talking about Heineken Cup Final performance.

JustinDee

.ak wrote: »

Not to sound bitter or anything, but just to clarify on the boo'ing at the end of the match. I was in the grandstand after we turned the ball over in stoppage time. We played tight and tried to move up the midfield - I was right on the gainline. At EVERY phase there was Osprey players well offside. The crowd knew it, and I think Poite knew it. But he didn't want to award any pen's that could sway the game. He bottled it and the crowd were justifiably enraged by it. Ofcourse then we played some dumb rugby and threw the ball wide

Standing offside and playing offside are two different instances. You actually won't find Leinster's lines much different.

Just watched game here and I don't see why the outrage for these alleged offsides. No-one would blow for such light infringements. Leinster had the ball, didn't lose it. They just couldn't get through and options didn't working out.
The booing was uncalled for and hardly objective in its tribalistic tilt (in my utmost honest opinion, Mike!), though not the be all and end all involving what was a cracking game.

thebaz

I'm a big fan of French rugby in general, but there referees ?????- Inspector Clouseau or Clueless - yesterday just re-affirmed this , spoilt what should have been a great game