Ireland vs Barbarians Gloucester, 29 May NO TV, NO STREAMS.

Podge_irl

Some lovely scores there, particularly the two Gilroy ones and the Earls one.

But my god, there was a worrying amount of piss poor tackling from Ireland.

Kayless

Gilroy's defence didn't look great, hope he's been told to go and work on it

bilston

Kayless wrote: »

Gilroy's defence didn't look great, hope he's been told to go and work on it

Apparently...he made a try saving tackle on Balshaw...

Fishooks12

Gilroy looked brilliant but he was badly caught at sea for one of the babaas try's. Reminds me of a similar lapse from Zebo for Munster during the year

If they can improve their defense in the same way Earls did this year we'll have serious competition for 14 and 11

Earls progression as a player this season can't really be overstated. His defense has improved alright but it's his passing that really come on leaps and bounds

I'd be comfortable with him playing 13, 11 or 15 for Ireland now. Still only 24 too so room for improvement aswell

.ak

bilston wrote: »

Good work ont he videos lads.

I suppose we already knew that Gilroy had done well but the two things that struck me from those brief highlights was the passing of Murray and partiuclarly Earls. I know he wants to play OC and if he doesn't play there he's more likely to play wing but anytime I've seen him at FB he's been a real threat, he has a bomming clearnace kick as well although I'm not sure about his tactical kicking but then he'd have more time to assess his options at FB than he would at OC. I'm not sure how he'd fare under the high ball compared to Kearney, that may not be a fair comparison as Kearney is the best in the world but then he's setting the standard for others to follow.

Basically he's a prime back three player. I really hope all this nonsense of moving him to OC when BOD isn't there is a joke really. BOD's gonna have a season or two left in him, now's the perfect time to start giving players like Cave, Griffen and EoM a shot there and let them develop their natural centre skills.

A back three of Bowe, Kearney and Earls would be absolutely lethal.

Fishooks12

.ak wrote: »

Basically he's a prime back three player. I really hope all this nonsense of moving him to OC when BOD isn't there is a joke really. BOD's gonna have a season or two left in him, now's the perfect time to start giving players like Cave, Griffen and EoM a shot there and let them develop their natural centre skills.

A back three of Bowe, Kearney and Earls would be absolutely lethal.

I'd agree. I'd be comfortable with Earls at 13 but in reality I'd like to see him as a winger that can cover 15

Tox56

Earls is an incredibly talented player who could play anywhere and succeed.

I think his future will depend on players coming through. If we have a queue for 13 and Kearney has another long-term injury (god forbid), Earls could play FB for a year in which time another 13 establishes himself. It's impossible to predict, the arrival of Laulala + Downey just complicates things further.

GerM

I'll go ahead and be the bad guy. If Gilroy tried that spin move in a test match, 80% of the time he'd be smashed and lambasted by one and all for not doing the right thing and not giving the pass to the support. Fantastic footwork but I'm glad it was in this game only.

bilston

GerM wrote: »

I'll go ahead and be the bad guy. If Gilroy tried that spin move in a test match, 80% of the time he'd be smashed and lambasted by one and all for not doing the right thing and not giving the pass to the support. Fantastic footwork but I'm glad it was in this game only.

Have you landed in NZ yet Deccie?

flyswatter

Gilroys break for the Earls try reminded me of a NZ winger like Sivivatu or someone. Brilliant stuff.

GerM

bilston wrote: »

Have you landed in NZ yet Deccie?

Flight is delayed.

It's a fair point, though. 2 on 1, fixing the defender and not giving a pass is, more often than not, a glaring error. Superb footwork but unnecessary. Zebo tried to go past a defender instead of giving a simple inside ball for the Wolfhounds this season and was rightly hammered for it on here.

Tox56

GerM wrote: »

bilston wrote: »

Have you landed in NZ yet Deccie?

Flight is delayed.

It's a fair point, though. 2 on 1, fixing the defender and not giving a pass is, more often than not, a glaring error. Superb footwork but unnecessary. Zebo tried to go past a defender instead of giving a simple inside ball for the Wolfhounds this season and was rightly hammered for it on here.

He's 21 and needs to clean up certain aspects of his game, unsurprisingly for a winger, he's a tad selfish. He needs to keep some of it and back himself when he should, but that's a typical sign of inexperience, hopefully someone points it out to him.

irishbucsfan

It's about knowing your limits. You might be able to beat the man the odd time. If you only attempt it when its on and it comes off noone will ever have a problem with you. That's what Gilroy did so no complaints.

However I do think he has held the ball at times when he should have kept it alive when playing for Ulster. So it is a little bit of a flaw in his game.

Although I think saying he'd get smashed 80% of the time in a test match is a bit of an unfair criticism. Maybe he wouldn't try it 80% of the time in a test match?

GerM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Although I think saying he'd get smashed 80% of the time in a test match is a bit of an unfair criticism. Maybe he wouldn't try it 80% of the time in a test match?

I was basing it on the assumption that if he did do it, 80% of the time the defender would just take him down with the ball. I'd like to think that it was the game that was in it. Babas games are made for a little showboating.

profitius

GerM wrote: »

Flight is delayed.

It's a fair point, though. 2 on 1, fixing the defender and not giving a pass is, more often than not, a glaring error. Superb footwork but unnecessary. Zebo tried to go past a defender instead of giving a simple inside ball for the Wolfhounds this season and was rightly hammered for it on here.

But by side stepping the defender instead of getting tackled it ment there was an extra attacker which made it easier to score the try.

GerM

profitius wrote: »

But by side stepping the defender instead of getting tackled it ment there was an extra attacker which made it easier to score the try.

Hindsight. If Balshaw had executed a standard 1 v 1 tackle it would take on a very different perspective. I'd always want a player to execute the effective, basic play instead of the entertaining, high risk one.

It's more just a point of note. This was a Babas game which is the exact place to try this sort of stuff.

Scioch

GerM wrote: »

Hindsight. If Balshaw had executed a standard 1 v 1 tackle it would take on a very different perspective. I'd always want a player to execute the effective, basic play instead of the entertaining, high risk one.

It was his last chance to impress Kidney with a good performance and try get on the touring squad so I suppose it may have been a bit less inhibiting than a test match would be.

But regardless, he made a break and took on the defender spinning out of the tackle. Surely part of being a good winger is being a bit unpredictable ?

I dont think its a sign of anything much other than him being a really good attacking winger and evading a tackle with a nice spin. I'd rather that and him retaining possession whether tackled or not than chipping and backing his pace which a lot of wingers do now. You dont know what would have happened if the tackle was made either. If Balshaw did catch him (which I'm sure he planned to do) then Gilroy may have been able to offload in the tackle and keep the momentum.

shuffol

I think the Baa Baas game showed Gilroy playing with freedom in his favoured position on the right wing, By and large he's been playing on the left wing for Ulster this season and I cant understand why, he's far stronger stepping off his right foot and almost exclusively carries the ball in his right hand. Trimble on the other hand is equally effective on either wing in my view. Gilroys try against Munster is the only real time I recall him beating a player on the outside. Had he been on the right wing more I think he would've had a far stronger season and shown himself to be a fair bit ahead of Zebo at this point.

.ak

That 'spin' is a trademark of a young player looking to play rugby. It's great to see, and when it works it's fantastic and easy on the eyes, just like Rob Kearney's wonder try versus the Ospreys in the ML.

Having said that, Gilroy tends to execute it at the wrong time (near the try line with support, rather than spinning away from something in midfield when isolated), and hasn't been made pay for it yet. It's something that looks fantastic when it comes off, but in essence it leaves you totally open. The one that springs out in my mind is the try he got against Munster. If there was a decent tackle between the Munster backline he would've been creamed where he stood when he tried that. But instead a Benny Hill like moment happened.

At the end of the day Gilroy is hella exciting, and oozes confidence and has the skillset to back it up. When he learns how to use those skills at the right time he'll be a household name in European rugby.

Hype710

.ak wrote: »

That 'spin' is a trademark of a young player looking to play rugby. It's great to see, and when it works it's fantastic and easy on the eyes, just like Rob Kearney's wonder try versus the Ospreys in the ML.

One of the funniest things I've seen on a rugby field is Rob Kearney against France in 2009. Spins twice to avoid two separate tackles and pirouettes for a third time for absolutely no reason!

.ak

Hype710 wrote: »

One of the funniest things I've seen on a rugby field is Rob Kearney against France in 2009. Spins twice to avoid two separate tackles and pirouettes for a third time for absolutely no reason!

Eh, there was a reason...



It was part of his contract with nutrigain.

profitius

Ian Dowling was the spin meister!

GerM wrote: »

Hindsight. If Balshaw had executed a standard 1 v 1 tackle it would take on a very different perspective. I'd always want a player to execute the effective, basic play instead of the entertaining, high risk one.

It's more just a point of note. This was a Babas game which is the exact place to try this sort of stuff.

Its hard to nail someone who is spinning. Gilroy seemed to feint right to put Balshaw off balance, before spinning left.

RoundBox11

It strikes me that the vast majority of Zebo's tries (that ive seen anyway) are all just traditional poacher tries. Just sorta right place at the right time 5 metres out from the line while hugging the touchline. Not that thats a bad thing, but i havent seen him beat defenders using good footwork etc. as much as gilroy and Kearney. It seems like his pace is hiding his other attacking weaknesses.

Brian

conormccarthy92 wrote: »

full highlights here :

http://www.gloucesterrugby.co.uk/8262.php

"On n'a pas de vidéo" (we don't have video [ref])

... Yeah no kidding!

boynesider

RoundBox11 wrote: »

It strikes me that the vast majority of Zebo's tries (that ive seen anyway) are all just traditional poacher tries. Just sorta right place at the right time 5 metres out from the line while hugging the touchline. Not that thats a bad thing, but i havent seen him beat defenders using good footwork etc. as much as gilroy and Kearney. It seems like his pace is hiding his other attacking weaknesses.

Here we go again. I really have no idea what Zebo has done to deserve such unpopularity. There are some people who are clearly dead set against the lad and who will look for any opportunity to criticise him.

Gilroy looks great in those clips and I really expect him to push Trimble for the Ulster jersey next year. On current form anyway my wings would be Bowe and Gilroy without any hesitation.

Earl's passing looks just as good as it has been since Xmas. His distribution in the Six Nations was top notch and he has fully convinced me that he can take over at OC after Bod retires. I would nearly say that he is the most improved player in irish rugby this season (along with dev toner), as I really doubted whether he had a future anywhere else but on the wing after the World Cup.

Judgement Day

At least Zebo is absorbing some of the ****e usually reserved for ROG in these threads - eaten bread is soon forgotten!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pIursHmEZc

Tox56

boynesider wrote: »

Here we go again. I really have no idea what Zebo has done to deserve such unpopularity. There are some people who are clearly dead set against the lad and who will look for any opportunity to criticise him.

Gilroy looks great in those clips and I really expect him to push Trimble for the Ulster jersey next year. On current form anyway my wings would be Bowe and Gilroy without any hesitation.

Earl's passing looks just as good as it has been since Xmas. His distribution in the Six Nations was top notch and he has fully convinced me that he can take over at OC after Bod retires. I would nearly say that he is the most improved player in irish rugby this season (along with dev toner), as I really doubted whether he had a future anywhere else but on the wing after the World Cup.

I think pointing out flaws in his game (same has been done to Gilroy) is hardly being "dead set" against him.

There are some people go over the top, but the fact many people wanted Gilroy to travel over Zebo has been misconstrued as a slight against Zebo.

Hagz

Oh that's right! I forgot all about that. Why was I assessing him on current performances?! Silly me.

Anyway, a drop goal in the dying minutes of a game does not a great player make. He did it this year against Northampton. There's more responsibilities for an out-half than dropping goals.

Judgement Day

Hagz wrote: »

Oh that's right! I forgot all about that. Why was I assessing him on current performances?! Silly me.

Anyway, a drop goal in the dying minutes of a game does not a great player make. He did it this year against Northampton. There's more responsibilities for an out-half than dropping goals.

I didn't single you out for particular attention but there's an awful lot of antipathy towards ROG in these threads and it's not a very pleasant spectacle. I would be the first to admit that he is in the twilight of his career but he is entitled to more respect than he gets here - his still the #2 outhalf in the country and has more to give. According to anything I've read about the Baa-Baas match he had an excellent game.

boynesider

Tox56 wrote: »

I think pointing out flaws in his game (same has been done to Gilroy) is hardly being "dead set" against him.

There are some people go over the top, but the fact many people wanted Gilroy to travel over Zebo has been misconstrued as a slight against Zebo.

I know all that and I considered it before I posted. I have no doubt however that an awful lot of rugby people have a deep bias against Zebo and are looking for any chance to demean him. This forum is riddled with examples of this which goes so far beyond genuine criticism to actually become a dislike of him and a desire to see him make mistakes as much as possible. The poster you are defending is actually using the fact that Zebo has scored a try in order to construct an argument against his ability as a rugby player. Madness!

And for the record I would also rate Gilroy as a slightly better player than Zebo at the moment (although I would say that both are equally as weak defensively), but surely any honest, objective rugby follower would see that Dave Kearney is further along in his development than both of them. If there had to be one of them on the plane to NZ (no idea why Kidney couldn't have brought two or even three of them however), it should have been Kearney who was outstanding for the Wolfhounds and who was actually in the match day squad for the Wales game during the 6 nations. But very few people are mentioning his name and the whole debate has been reduced to Zebo v Gilroy which doesn't make much sense to me.