Dublin school expels 4 pupils for 'disparaging Facebook comments'

validusername1

BattleCorp wrote: »

This thread is about comments made of a sexual nature about teachers and the reaction of the school to these allegations so how am I supposed to know that you were talking about different types of allegations.

Clearly you weren't being clear.

Secondly, you can't go and slate teachers on the internet if you think they are bad. Even if the whole class thinks that the teacher is bad, you shouldn't go writing articles about them on the internet.

If you have a problem with a teacher, then there are rules and regulations about the method to follow regarding complaining about them etc.

Even if the teacher is the most useless gobsh1te in the entire Dept of Education, they are entitled to fair process. You can't make wild allegations that might damage their credibility or else you could find yourself on the wrong end of a civil action. I'm not saying that they would win, I'm just saying that you could end up in court.

I have never discussed teachers on Facebook and don't plan to. I just wouldn't have a problem with doing it if I felt like it. When you have been treated as unfairly and like absolute shít by 1 or 2 particular teachers (just because they had the power to, honestly nothing else) like I have, and above that also being an awful teacher in the process, when you know what that feels like, come back to me and tell me how you think they deserve decency. Probably slightly bitter but if you were in my situation you'd be the same. The Facebook thing is just relevant to that because it means I don't see much wrong other people knowing what they're really like also. And yeah, maybe I should've been clearer about what I was on about. Oh well.

validusername1

seavill wrote: »

Maybe you didn't understand my post seen as you couldn't come up with a mature response.

Saying something bad about someone = slagging them off
Saying something bad about someone = slagging them off

Calling someone fat = slagging them off
calling someone a bad teacher/footballer/student/milkman = slagging them off

If I have said something incorrect please point out, otherwise I will presume you have seen how you are wrong and have accepted my point of view

The line you said was showing ignorance. You're being hypocritical as you're accusing me of refusing to accept other people's points of views, yet you admitting to doing just that by saying ''I fail to see how you can see that any other way''.

Don't really know how voicing my feelings makes me lack maturity but so be it. That's just ignorant people for ya I guess.

''If I have said something incorrect please point out'' - That's just the thing. Your opinion can neither be incorrect nor correct, so I don't see how you expect me to do that. All I'm saying is that I don't agree with you. Why is that not okay?

seavill

validusername1 wrote: »

The line you said was showing ignorance. You're being hypocritical as you're accusing me of refusing to accept other people's points of views, yet you admitting to doing just that by saying ''I fail to see how you can see that any other way''.

Don't really know how voicing my feelings makes me lack maturity but so be it. That's just ignorant people for ya I guess.

''If I have said something incorrect please point out'' - That's just the thing. Your opinion can neither be incorrect nor correct, so I don't see how you expect me to do that. All I'm saying is that I don't agree with you. Why is that not okay?

So I wasn't saying anything incorrect so?

BattleCorp

validusername1 wrote: »

I have never discussed teachers on Facebook and don't plan to. I just wouldn't have a problem with doing it if I felt like it.

Fair enough, you aren't going to badmouth teachers so no problem there (not that I have any great love for teachers either). But can you not see the dangers in doing this?

It's your opinion that the teacher is bad. We have all had useless gobsh1tes teach us in our time. Maybe you are right about the teacher and maybe you aren't, it doesn't matter. You can't go badmouthing people on the net with no consequences.

If you think that they are crap, then report them. Badmouthing them on the internet is the equivalent of taking the law into your own hands, and that's not allowed.

If I thought you were a heroin dealer and a kiddie fiddler (but you had never been convicted of it), would it be ok for me to publish that you were a heroin dealer and a kiddie fiddler on the internet? I think not.

I know it is an extreme example but can you see my point? The internet is a dangerous place and people don't seem to realise that you can't put anything you like up on the internet.

validusername1

seavill wrote: »

So I wasn't saying anything incorrect so?

Considering somebody being a bad teacher is fact and not subjective, yes, you were saying something incorrect.

Me saying that an opinion can't be neither wrong nor right was directed at the view on discussing these things on Facebook. Different people have different morals. Obviously yours are different to mine. You just can't accept that and move on, can you? Sad really.. Anywho I have better things to be doing now, so if you don't mind getting on with your life now that'd be fantastic Can you do that?

Joe10000

I got a bit more detail on this today but I'm sure how much I can say so as to not repeat the slander but the male teacher in question had reason in the normal course of his work to work with the boys one on one, a scurrilous link was made between this role and his sexuality which was completely without foundation and was vindictive in the extreme.

Based on this I think the expulsions are easily justified.

seavill

validusername1 wrote: »

Considering somebody being a bad teacher is fact and not subjective, yes, you were saying something incorrect.

Me saying that an opinion can't be neither wrong nor right was directed at the view on discussing these things on Facebook. Different people have different morals. Obviously yours are different to mine. You just can't accept that and move on, can you? Sad really.. Anywho I have better things to be doing now, so if you don't mind getting on with your life now that'd be fantastic Can you do that?

You seem to have misunderstood my couple of posts. I am only trying to help you clear something up. I thought my 2nd last one was clear enough.

I wasn't talking about whether someone was a bad teacher or not.

Several times I have tried to say that you mentioned previously that you felt calling them fat and commenting on their teaching ability were not the same thing.
I tried to explain how either way you were slagging them off. You disagreed originally but then seemed to misread my posts after that.

I am not agreeing or disagreeing with you whether the teacher is good or not. I have never mentioned anything of the sorts in any of my posts, I think your (as you said) "bitterness" is getting in the way slightly.

My last few posts were the fact that whatever you say about them you are slagging them off, whether you thing it is justified or not is irrelevant. Either way you could walk yourself into a lot of trouble as BattleCorp is saying also.

validusername1

BattleCorp wrote: »

Fair enough, you aren't going to badmouth teachers so no problem there (not that I have any great love for teachers either). But can you not see the dangers in doing this?

It's your opinion that the teacher is bad. We have all had useless gobsh1tes teach us in our time. Maybe you are right about the teacher and maybe you aren't, it doesn't matter. You can't go badmouthing people on the net with no consequences.

If you think that they are crap, then report them. Badmouthing them on the internet is the equivalent of taking the law into your own hands, and that's not allowed.

If I thought you were a heroin dealer and a kiddie fiddler (but you had never been convicted of it), would it be ok for me to publish that you were a heroin dealer and a kiddie fiddler on the internet? I think not.

I know it is an extreme example but can you see my point? The internet is a dangerous place and people don't seem to realise that you can't put anything you like up on the internet.

So you're using examples like using Class A drugs and molesting kids along with being a bad teacher? The difference is the first two are illegal, the second one is not. I have no problem in seeing that people should be careful about what they put on the internet because there can be major consequences for certain things, I get what you're saying, what I don't have a problem with is saying something like ''I don't like Ms ___ 'cause she is a bad teacher imo''. I would say that upfront to my principal's face if he directly asked my opinion on her/him. The internet is just more give the opinion even if it's not asked. Obviously it's not a good idea to say negative things about anyone on the internet no matter who they are 'cause you never know what way they may take it. But yes I do see your point

paddyandy

Helix wrote: »

if they're dickheads in school, during school hours or while officially representing the school, then i agree

outside that, the school has absolutely no jurisdiction and it shouldve been taken up in the courts

It's not outside the school if it's affecting morale and discipline inside the school .

validusername1

seavill wrote: »

You seem to have misunderstood my couple of posts. I am only trying to help you clear something up. I thought my 2nd last one was clear enough.

I wasn't talking about whether someone was a bad teacher or not.

Several times I have tried to say that you mentioned previously that you felt calling them fat and commenting on their teaching ability were not the same thing.
I tried to explain how either way you were slagging them off. You disagreed originally but then seemed to misread my posts after that.

I am not agreeing or disagreeing with you whether the teacher is good or not. I have never mentioned anything of the sorts in any of my posts, I think your (as you said) "bitterness" is getting in the way slightly.

My last few posts were the fact that whatever you say about them you are slagging them off, whether you thing it is justified or not is irrelevant. Either way you could walk yourself into a lot of trouble as BattleCorp is saying also.

Saying something negative is not ''slagging someone off'' in my opinion. To me, slagging someone off is saying unnecessary things about someone just for the sake of saying something negative with intent to hurt the person. To me, saying someone is a bad teacher is not slagging someone off because of that. This is why I don't think they are the same things. Obviously ''slagging off'' means something different to you.

''Could walk yourself into a lot of trouble'' - I said I never have and have no intent to say anything on Facebook about teachers. What part of this are people not getting.. I wouldn't say anything to another person about somebody (be it a teacher, friend, stranger) unless I would say it to that person's face also. I wouldn't care about telling this teacher my opinion of her. Calling her ''fat'' to her face however would just be plain rude (she's not fat anyway fyi, just used that as an example) and would not achieve anything. Whereas telling her how the way she currently ''teaches'' is ineffective would.

seavill

[QUOTE=validusername1;78805397]Saying something negative is not ''slagging someone off'' in my opinion. To me, slagging someone off is saying unnecessary things about someone just for the sake of saying something negative with intent to hurt the person. To me, saying someone is a bad teacher is not slagging someone off because of that. This is why I don't think they are the same things. Obviously ''slagging off'' means something different to you.

''Could walk yourself into a lot of trouble'' - I said I never have and have no intent to say anything on Facebook about teachers. What part of this are people not getting.. I wouldn't say anything to another person about somebody (be it a teacher, friend, stranger) unless I would say it to that person's face also. I wouldn't care about telling this teacher my opinion of her. Calling her ''fat'' to her face however would just be plain rude (she's not fat anyway fyi, just used that as an example) and would not achieve anything. Whereas telling her how the way she currently ''teaches'' is ineffective would.[/QUOTE]

I have previously mentioned my definition of slagging someone off I won't repeat for the sake of it, you have seen it.

You have said you are not going to post it, we are just using it as the example rather than actually talking about you doing it.
Again the fat thing was just as an example obviously, not actually meant about that teacher. How would I know?

If you feel so strongly about it, as you seem to, why have you not done what you are going on about here, and actually said it to the teacher or the principal. As you have said in your last line saying she is ineffective would achieve something, so if she has been that bad for 2 years why have you not done so.

You seem to have just joined in to get the rant off your chest, as you won't actually do it in real life. Hopefully it has helped and you can just get through the last week or so with this person until you don't have to see them ever again (presuming you are in 6th year possibly not)
If I were you I would just forget about them unless you are going to approach the principal and concentrate on your own work as worrying about the teacher at this stage is only going to hamper your studies.

We get you think that you believe it true so you are allowed say it on facebook, if so test it out and let us know how you get on. otherwise we are just going around in circles here. Either you see nothing wrong with posting it and feel you won't get in trouble because it is true, so do it, otherwise there is no point in just ranting off here and dragging things off topic

validusername1

seavill wrote: »

I have previously mentioned my definition of slagging someone off I won't repeat for the sake of it, you have seen it.

You have said you are not going to post it, we are just using it as the example rather than actually talking about you doing it.
Again the fat thing was just as an example obviously, not actually meant about that teacher. How would I know?

If you feel so strongly about it, as you seem to, why have you not done what you are going on about here, and actually said it to the teacher or the principal. As you have said in your last line saying she is ineffective would achieve something, so if she has been that bad for 2 years why have you not done so.

You seem to have just joined in to get the rant off your chest, as you won't actually do it in real life. Hopefully it has helped and you can just get through the last week or so with this person until you don't have to see them ever again (presuming you are in 6th year possibly not)
If I were you I would just forget about them unless you are going to approach the principal and concentrate on your own work as worrying about the teacher at this stage is only going to hamper your studies.

We get you think that you believe it true so you are allowed say it on facebook, if so test it out and let us know how you get on. otherwise we are just going around in circles here. Either you see nothing wrong with posting it and feel you won't get in trouble because it is true, so do it, otherwise there is no point in just ranting off here and dragging things off topic

Ah jesus I'm not even gonna bother reading that. No time for this shít. Cya
*adds to ignore list*

anirishlad

Ive seen people get attacked in school by another student and only get a weeks worth of detention for it.

I wonder what would happen if someone attacked the principal :pac:

mcmoustache

A good old fashioned caning would have nipped this in the bud. Just sayin'.

paddyandy

Never had problems with pupils 50 years ago....then the telly arrived .

Mr. Loverman

I also went to Oatlands.

I remember putting a dildo package under the wiper of Ms. Show Everyone Yer Tits's car.

I have good memories from Oatlands but they aimed to make everyone average.

Shout to out Mr. Carolyn, he was a brilliant teacher.

Faolchu

seavill wrote: »

A teacher CAN lose their job for being gay in a Catholic school, or could be denied a job for the same reason as their life could be seen as going against the ethos of the school.

I believe that in the last 12 months there was a case exactly like this. not sure if it was here or in the UK. i'm a little vague on the facts not sure if the teacher was fired after coming out or was denied a job because he came out.
as for this matter the scrotes got what they deserve, its not right that they can say what they want about a teacher and get away with it this can ruin the reputation and/or family of a teacher depending upon the allegation.

as for the detention for the others, well that's akin to the gang that stand by watching as some poor kid gets beaten up or laugh when that same poor kid is verbally & mentally abused by a bully. they are in my opinion no better and should have been given a stronger punishment like suspension at teh end of the day their actions directly condoned the bullying of a teacher

christmas2012

i think immediate expulsion (without first suspension) was a little harsh for facebook comments

the_syco

GaryIrv93 wrote: »

How come those bullies don't get suspended or expelled? Why aren't kids as fully protected?

In most cases, the kids will deny the bullying happens, in fear of repercussions from the bully, so they can't be prosecuted.

The teachers don't fear such repercussions, and thus will get the bully prosecuted.

frank reynolds wrote: »

but i wouldnt be stupid enough to turn it into a media frenzy by expelling the students - one of which is a TD's son. i'd stop and think about it.

So, if someone said on a school facebook page that they had a video of you getting sucked off by a (same sex) student, you'd let it pass?

As for the TD's son; f**k the politicians; no longer will they get away with this just for being a politician!

kowloon

TeddyTedson wrote: »

How about a quote for us iPhone 4S users

I ALSO HAVE AN iPHONE 4S!!!!!!!!!111111

Fuinseog

problemchimp wrote: »

I take the points about bullying, but is this a bullying issue? No other pupils were bullied and let's face it, we all had stories/rumours about teachers when we where at school. Suspension? yes. Expulsion? no.

at 18 they are legally adults and if the teacher wrote crude sexual comments about them online there would be hell to pay.
for too long teachers have had to jump through hoops to appease little so and sos.now its time for them to do the same.

christmas2012

its different for a teacher they are in a position of influence and power in the school students are not,they are still young,and it was a stupid thing to do,i think expulsion was way way over the top,they should have been suspended not expelled.

languagenerd

christmas2012 wrote: »

i think immediate expulsion (without first suspension) was a little harsh for facebook comments

They were suspended for 20 days while the board decided...

Fuinseog

christmas2012 wrote: »

its different for a teacher they are in a position of influence and power in the school students are not,they are still young,and it was a stupid thing to do,i think expulsion was way way over the top,they should have been suspended not expelled.

we could also argue cyber bullying is a bit of craic. Phoebe Prince.
up until now principals have refused to expel. too much paperwork, the risk of the parents suing etc.
18 is not young and they should know the difference between right and wrong, though apparently these days you do not come of age until 23.
the days when teachers yielded power and influence are long gone. I worked in an inner city school and the amount of times some little shiite threatened to burn me out and nothing was done about it. not only is the teacher considered fair game but also their children.

I remember when seniors from a private school kicked a teenager to death. a stupid thing to do and was not worthy of a jail sentence. were they expelled?

BattleCorp

christmas2012 wrote: »

its different for a teacher they are in a position of influence and power in the school students are not,they are still young,and it was a stupid thing to do,i think expulsion was way way over the top,they should have been suspended not expelled.

They were suspended while the school investigated the incident. Upon completion of this investigation, the school deemed it to be so serious that it warranted expulsion. The school wouldn't have come to this conclusion lightly.

Why do you think that teachers deserve less protection in the workplace than other employees?

If a teacher did something like this, he/she would be sacked. Why should it be different for a student?

Everywhere I look nowadays, nobody is taking any responsibility for anything that they do, not the politicians, financial regulator, bankers, media, parents of scumbag kids, etc etc. Nobody seems to take responsibility and that's not right. Also, I'd like to point out that I'm not calling these kids "scumbag kids", I'm just talking in general.

Yes, it was a stupid thing for the kids to do, but they have to learn that what they do has consequences in real life. They could have ruined that teachers career, life, his family life etc etc.

If a kid (under 18) stole your car or killed your partner/child/dog whatever, would you say that it was ok just because they were under 18? I think not.

christmas2012

Im not talking about if a pupil threatened to burn me out of it,steal my dog or vandalise my property,i wasnt addressing that issue,maybe you should re read my post and what i was referring to.

I never said it was okay to bully phoebe prince either,you are reading into whats not there.

I still think expulsion is too harsh for a few immature facebook comments,they should have been given at least one chance to redeem themselves.I am aware it was a private school and I would say this of any student of any school public or private,just in case people are going to read into things that arent there.

BattleCorp

christmas2012 wrote: »

Im not talking about if a pupil threatened to burn me out of it,steal my dog or vandalise my property,i wasnt addressing that issue,maybe you should re read my post and what i was referring to.

I still think expulsion is too harsh for a few immature facebook comments,they should have been given at least one chance to redeem themselves.

I was using those crimes as an example, I know you weren't talking about those type of crimes.

You don't seem to realise though that those few immature facebook comments (as you call them) had the potential to damage someones reputation, destroy their career even and that can't go unpunished.

Do you think that a teacher should have been sacked if he named on facebook two male students that he said he saw giving each other oral sex? He'd be hauled off before the courts straight away and he could kiss bye bye the prospect of ever teaching again.

It wasn't harmless comments that the students put up on Facebook and they have to take responsibility for it.

So no, I don't think that expulsion is too great a punishment for them.

And besides, what does expulsion really mean? They won't suffer much (not as much as the teacher who had the accusations made against them). Off to a new school to continue their education and that's the problem solved for them. And it won't affect their career much either because if they don't mention on their CV that they were expelled from school, how will prospective employers know that they had been expelled in the past.

These teenagers will be lucky if their punishment stops at expulsion.

Einhard

Helix wrote: »

no, you'd expect to have the police involved

it wouldn't be a matter for your job to sort out unless it was something that was spilling into the workplace

how are people continually missing this?

im not saying what the kids did is acceptable, nor should it be tolerated, but it's not the school's place to do anything other than report it to the appropriate authorities, which they are not unless it happens in school or while the student is representing the school, unless otherwise outlined explicitly in the school terms of acceptance which was agreed upon by the student's parents when signing up

I would have thought it obvious these actions would have had a seriously detrimental affect on the authority of the teachers slandered in this manner. Many of the classes they would be teaching would have had a knowledge of the Facebook pages well before the school itself became involved, and that could only have resulted in a deterioration in the standing of that teachers involved. That's how it cecomes a school matter. No teacher could be expected to teach students who conspired in posting such material, and I think it would be entirely counterproductive to the student/teacher relationship were the students involved simply moved to another class, or worse, not sanctioned at all.

Oh...and for the record, the comments on the pages included allegations that the teachers involved were paedophiles. So it's slightly more serious than simply slagging off.

Einhard

validusername1 wrote: »

Because saying something like ''she's fat'' is just malicious and there's no need for it. Whereas if somebody's teaching skills are bad, there's a need for that to be said so that the teacher can realise and make an effort to improve. And no, it's not me ''that is the problem''. Don't judge the situation before you've lived it. For this particular teacher, not one person in my class thinks she is good. Try telling me how a teacher who sits, tells us do questions, never corrects them, clearly expects us to already know how to do them, tell me how that is good teaching skills? Nobody in my class thinks so. So don't talk about something you know nothing about.

''Your opinion is your opinion, doesn't make it correct though''. Yeah no shít? Nobody's opinion is correct or incorrect. That's why they are called opinions.

And it is not ''slagging'' a teacher off if I mention the reasons why me and the majority of my class failed our mock. It's not our fault. I do the work I can. It's not taught properly. A teacher's teaching skills directly affect my education. Her weight does not. So no, they are most definitely not the same thing. And don't go accusing me of being immature, please. I'd advise you to find out the full information of a story before you go judging people. Nice life lesson for you.

Have your parents contact the department of education with a complaint. If they get enough complaints they will look into it, and inspections will follow. No point moaning about the standard of this teacher if you refuse to do anything about it.

Einhard

christmas2012 wrote: »

i think immediate expulsion (without first suspension) was a little harsh for facebook comments

christmas2012 wrote: »

its different for a teacher they are in a position of influence and power in the school students are not,they are still young,and it was a stupid thing to do,i think expulsion was way way over the top,they should have been suspended not expelled.

christmas2012 wrote: »

Im not talking about if a pupil threatened to burn me out of it,steal my dog or vandalise my property,i wasnt addressing that issue,maybe you should re read my post and what i was referring to.

I never said it was okay to bully phoebe prince either,you are reading into whats not there.

I still think expulsion is too harsh for a few immature facebook comments,they should have been given at least one chance to redeem themselves.I am aware it was a private school and I would say this of any student of any school public or private,just in case people are going to read into things that arent there.

christmas2012 has sex with children. hahahaha hilarious? What do you mean that was uncalled for? It's just an immature comment. I'm young. Don't I get a free pass??

These students are not children in the sense that you're implying. They are all 17 or 18. In a few weeks, they'll have finished secondary education and looking for jobs, emigrating, starting college. They cannot be absolved of their responsibilities that easily. The teachers that they slandered with allegations of paedophilia must have been traumatised when they heard of the Facebook pages. I know I would have been. To suggest that they were the "immature" work of "children" is ludicrous. The mollycoddling of youth is bad enough these days without extending childhood into young adulthood! They deserved to be expelled. Teaching is a collaborative process between student and teacher, and there is no way that such a process could continue in this instance after the actions of the students involved.