Knock Airport

JCX BXC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120586371#Comment_120586371

The winter timetables are out mostly, it's not too late but it's looking like Milan is gone for winter at least.

DumbBrunette

https://www.con-telegraph.ie/2023/09/29/mayo-airport-launches-its-busy-winter-schedule/

..

Masala

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121173590#Comment_121173590

So..... whats NEW there???

Cosmo Kramer

Tenerife, in that it hasn't been served from Knock in a number of years.

The airport has had a fantastic summer, great to see. Badly needs the apron and departure area extension though, peak times are uncomfortable as a passenger with the crowds. Tuesday mornings in particular have been exceptionally busy this summer due to the flight timings.

Jamie2k9

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121240610#Comment_121240610

I don't think the taxpayer should be funding such a development when NOC could even out the flight waves to eliminate this.

ShamNNspace

€10 development fee since 2002,thats a lot of tenners

Cosmo Kramer

I doubt Knock gets too much of a say in terms of what time Ryanair decides to bring the flights in at.

Cosmo Kramer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121240876#Comment_121240876

They subsidise some of the thinner routes to a large extent though.

AnRothar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121241670#Comment_121241670

Care to elaborate?

Muppet Man

20231016_133355.jpg

Someone travelling in style here in knock today....

ShamNNspace

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121245340#Comment_121245340

The Tanaiste and a shower of them are up in Tuam today for an opening, might be their mode of transport 🤔

Cosmo Kramer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121243562#Comment_121243562

As I understand it the development fee contributes towards route development as well as physical infrastructure development. In the same way that a similar charge would be directly added to your ticket costs as airport charges at other airports, it is common for airport funds at any airport to be directed towards route incentives for airlines to start new routes and maintain existing ones that are otherwise marginal in terms of profitability for the airlines (predominantly Ryanair at Knock).

Locker10a

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121243562#Comment_121243562

Not sure details on Knock but i remember reading an article a while back about how Ryanair are the most subsidised airline in Europe, they benefit from massive amounts of subsidies for flying to loads of regional airports across Europe.

Im sure knock like other regional airports put in such incentives to gain/maintain routes but I personally wouldn’t know details

Cosmo Kramer

Yes, it's pretty much certain that they do. I doubt niche Ryanair routes from Knock like Cologne and Bergamo would continue to exist without ongoing subsidy from the airport. However I'd say it's an appropriate use of funds if it keeps those two links to the continent in place.

happyoutscan

I think it comes down to Ryanair not paying landing fees per passenger? Therefore Knock has to charge the 10er otherwise operating costs would not be met. As mentioned above, Ryanair are in the driving seat when it comes to negotiating with smaller regional airports.

No Ryanair, no airports.

Flights out of Knock are almost always cheaper than Dublin/Shannon anyway.

I'm open to being wrong though.

AnRothar

Aviation charges are many and varied and often are covered by relevant European regulations.

Most airports have a number of sources of income.

1. Government subsidy.
2. Landing fees (Passenger and Aircraft)
3. Car parking
4. Shops/Duty free (where available)
5. "Development levy's"

It sometimes can help to visualize and Airport as a special kind of Shopping Centre.

I think it comes down to Ryanair not paying landing fees per passenger? 

Nope they will pay landing fees and passenger fees. T & C's apply, see below re churning routes.

You can search for DAA passenger charges.

€7.59 per passenger in 2023 and with price caps of €7.53, €7.48 and €7.77 in 2024, 2025 and 2026 respectively.

But it seems the Knock version is not easily found (didn't try too hard though).

You can find their General Aviation version and it will give you some idea of weight charges.

Our landing charge is €6.00 per metric tonne or part thereof based on the MTOW, with a minimum landing charge of €20.00. Alternatively, you may purchase an annual landing card which entitles you to an unlimited number of landings per annum - this card costs €175.00. 

Ryanair are in the driving seat when it comes to negotiating with smaller regional airports.

Fixed it for you.

Salutary lesson to many Airports was how they used Shannon (and Cork) years ago while rowing with Aer Rianta.

Often Airports will offer discounts on new routes where the airline will pay little or no charges for the first few years.

• Search for Dublin New Route Support Scheme (“NRSS”) Long-Haul Operations (the “Scheme”) to give you an idea.
• They have a 5 year sliding scale.
• Knock version is more vague.
• Different routes will be granted different incentives, reflecting the degree of investment required by airlines to establish and develop such routes and on the basis of the compatibility of the proposed route with the airports strategic objectives.

This is one of the reasons why Ryanair churn routes. When the discounts run out they move elsewhere.

Flights out of Knock are almost always cheaper than Dublin/Shannon anyway.

Really.

ShamNNspace

Coming from someone who's a bit ignorant on the financial side of aviation, I see the airport carpark full or almost full every day of the year, there's also the aircraft dismantling business going on there, 5 or 6 departures per day, sure that airport should be easy enough ran in the scheme of things, can't see why they still have to mug me for a tenner every time I fly out from Irl west, they seem to be doing alright without it

Noxegon

I have to agree with that. The vast majority of airports include their charges in the ticket price; Knock should do that too.

LiamaDelta

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121259655#Comment_121259655

If by your own admission you're ignorant of the financial side of aviation, then you invalidate your 'opinion'. If you think 5 or 6 planes a day is enough to run an airport, then an airport with 50 or 60 must be naking millions? It gets much much harder to run a business with smaller income yet maintaining the infrastructure of a larger one.

HBC08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121259655#Comment_121259655

Of all the taxes we are robbed of in this country the tenner at knock is the very bottom of the pile.

I'm delighted to pay it to have an airport half an hour down the road from me in my own county.

If you dont want to pay it you can hit the road at 3am to the mess and hassle that is Dublin.

Pity a few other regional airports can't get their act together.

ShamNNspace

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121260271#Comment_121260271

Ah sure that's not the point at all, "hit the road" for Dublin if you don't like it.. I live equidistant from Shannon and Knock and if its down to the two I'll normally pick Shannon, the tenner isn't a lot in the scheme of things but a fairer way would be to levy it on the price of the ticket imv

HBC08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121260433#Comment_121260433

Fair enough,I'm a big fan of Shannon myself.If I had two great airports like knock and Shannon to choose from I'd probably spread it between the two aswell.

I suppose my point is that the tenner is either going to be built into the price or payed at the booth,I dont mind either way as it supports a great facility for the west and northwest.Id be happier if more taxes were like this ie optional and you see directly where it goes.

ShamNNspace

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121260464#Comment_121260464

Sure tis'nt optional, you have to pay it or they wont let you out 😉

yew_tree

Where do people see possible future routes from Knock? Could they aim for a European Hub like Amsterdam, Frankfurt or Paris?

The US flights are probably not realistic in the short term.

Also any update on the new hanger which was due to be built for the clamping that dismantles aircraft? I believe they got planning approved before covid?

Agree on the apron extension…it’s badly needed and the departures area is very cramped too. Until these two are expanded I don’t see any major increase in routes and frequency.

TheBetsy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121262892#Comment_121262892

Probably more bucket and spade routes and increases on existing routes such as Lanzarote, Tenerife, Malaga etc. Knock recently picked up LHR which is a massive coup for the airport but tbh i feel Amsterdam, Paris and Frankfurt are unlikely imo, Shannon the much more likely candidate of the two to pick up any of these routes. I think if Knock were to pick up a route to Paris or Frankfurt, Beauvais and Hahn would be the most likely airports as opposed to the main hubs.

Cosmo Kramer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121262892#Comment_121262892

I would say the most likely additional routes are mainly ones that have been seen previously but were lost for a variety of reasons. These would be my suggestions:

Gatwick - definitely the number one target for the airport management I'd say. The service was lost due to the Aer Lingus switch to Heathrow. While that was a good news story overall a lot of people were disappointed at the loss of Gatwick which is a cheaper airport for point to point travel and serves areas south of London better than any other airport.

Leeds/Newcastle - the UK is generally very well served from Knock but there's a gap between Manchester and Edinburgh with a strong Irish community - particularly around Leeds, that doesn't have a service at present.

Sun routes - Gran Canaria and Reus were previously popular routes. However neither airport is currently a Ryanair base so any route reinstatement would likely need to be a seasonal charter. Charter operations are limited at Knock as Ryanair have such a strong presence there. If Ryanair themselves were to try another sun route it might be Malta. However Knock is already very well served with sun routes.

Eastern Europe - a bit of an untapped market at Knock I think. There's potentially scope for at least one route to Poland. Somewhere like Krakow could offer a combination of serving Polish people living in the west of Ireland as well as being a city break option for Irish people. Other Polish cities would also be options.

More Heathrow - the Heathrow route is a big step forward but it only being once a day does limit the onward connection options. If they were ever able to up it to double daily that would help a lot with that. However Heathrow is a slot constrained airport so this could be difficult to achieve.

With the Heathrow route in place I don't think there's currently scope for another hub service like Paris or Amsterdam. The airport seems a bit fixated on getting US flights back but I actually don't think that should be a priority - the Irish emigrant community is far more widely spread these days. If they were really going to go for something ambitious attracting someone like Turkish Airlines to Istanbul into the airport would be better, because you can fly anywhere in the world from Istanbul. But I don't think that's an at all realistic aim at this point. For one thing the infrastructure just isn't there at Knock to accommodate the needs of those kinds of airlines. Maybe in the future with an expanded apron and departure facilities they might be able to look at it.

Other than that there would be the aim to further increase frequencies on existing routes where possible. And of course to maintain the routes they currently have. Knock has generally been successful in holding on to its routes, Ryanair haven't tended to chop and change their routes at Knock as much as they have done at other airports such as Shannon. However Bergamo, Cologne and possibly Edinburgh may be "thin" routes that need continued assistance from the airport to stay in place.

The target I believe is 1 million passengers a year in the coming years. Apparently they're looking at about 850k this year, which would be a new record.

Neworder79

Ryanair have added Lanzarote and Tenerife to Winter sun schedule along with previously announced Malaga.

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Cosmo Kramer: Any evidence EDI / BGY are "thin"? I've used both routes several times and always full load each way. Or do you mean seasonal/frequency?

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The winging about the small departure fee is boring. The model works and supports direct, convenient, low fare air access from the W/NW.

I use Dublin frequently. Fuel, commute, tolls, parking and very often the need to stay over in a hotel for early/late flight times can add additional days and €100-300 to the cost of travel.

Oscar Bravo

Im well known for whinging over on the weather forum but must say Knock is well handy for someone like myself here in Castlebar. Down the N5 and your there in 30 minutes. Park it up, check in , few pints and away to wherever your going. The 10 euro fee is small change, dont see any problem there.

On a side note the new Citylink bus from Castlebar to Dublin Airport is a great job. Can leave the car at home now and direct to Dublin.

Cosmo Kramer

I just mean in the sense that Edinburgh (a route I use a lot!) has been off and on a lot over the years. Bergamo and Cologne because continental European routes have always been the hardest to get to stick from Knock. It always feels like there's loads of demand for routes to England and the sun destinations but those ones are maybe trickier and two of them are seasonal only.

But I see that all three are now listed as back again next summer which is great.

DumbBrunette

https://westernpeople.ie/2023/11/03/work-commences-on-new-security-screening-system-at-ireland-west-airport/

New scanners mean you won't have to take liquids out of your bags. I wish they'd get these at Dublin airport.