Horrific Footage of Homeless Schizophrenic beaten by cops

jomc

This thread ( and a fair number of responses) make me feel so sickened with the world we live in. In no way at all was the attack justified. Its quite clear that the cops went far beyond reasonable force and they knew it to, especially with the comments of these are the fists that are going to **** you up while putting on latex gloves, and the i can't breathe...i'm sorry thing. They knew what they were doing and there is no defence for that.

Saying the paramedics caused his death??? Seriously, wtf! They should be charged for slander for that

Think_then_talk

cop a:2:04 like its seems everyday we have to talk about sumit,,,do you enjoy it.
cop a:3:04 I asked you your birthday.reply I dont know.
cop a:3:52 kelly thomas
cop a:3:54 kelly thomas
cop a:3:56 kelly thomas
cop a:3:58 kelly thomas
cop b:4:04 something kelly
cop a:4:08 whats your first name?
cop a 4:58 tell me your name and i'll let you move on.
cop a 4:59 i don't know your name.
cop a 5:04 you wount tell me your name?
https://docs.google.com/a/thefullertonian.com/file/d/0B1Y4_hVm0vbEcXQ2a2VPVWR5aVU/edit?pli=1

I know persons who suffer from Schizophrenia they dont know their birthday. In fact they find it hard to recognize groups relationships ie: aunt uncle cousin. This is a very sad case lets hope police learn from it.

zenno

This situation like Kelly Thomas goes on all the time in all countries but it's usually very hard to get audio & video recordings of such murders of which in this case here were able to be sent worldwide via youtube and such with proof of assault/murder.

In Makikomi's reply, maybe he seen a lot of this bad happenings to people and is just acclimated to it and doesn't see it like the rest of us mere mortals see murder. I don't know and I don't have a problem with the guy but as I said before...This is an injustice and I hope real law and justice come to fruition.

laoch na mona

Jamir Beautiful Wallflower wrote: »

It takes a fair amount of force to take someone to the ground if they don't want to go there, I've no idea what preceded this arrest but from looking at it unless he was a wanted fugitive the cops should have just let him run off into the night, its not likely he's be hard to find again.

if your a lot bigger as the police officers were its not that hard.

they should have used reasonable force police cant do what they want there is a point when you stop

take mma for example if you get full mount and start dropping bombs on someones face the fight will be stopped

zenno

Jamir Beautiful Wallflower wrote: »

It takes a fair amount of force to take someone to the ground if they don't want to go there, I've no idea what preceded this arrest but from looking at it unless he was a wanted fugitive the cops should have just let him run off into the night, its not likely he's be hard to find again.

Why don't you watch the video before you post again please.

arybvtcw0eolkf

laoch na mona wrote: »

if your a lot bigger as the police officers were its not that hard.

they should have used reasonable force police cant do what they want there is a point when you stop

The first two cops look fat and unfit, I'd say they find it hard to drop their cacks tbh..

I'm not sure anyone suggested reasonable force was used, sometimes unreasonable force must be used.. Excessive force is another thing altogether.. But I don't think the cops set out to murder the guy otherwise a bullet in the head would have been easier.

laoch na mona wrote: »

take mma for example if you get full mount and start dropping bombs on someones face the fight will be stopped

MMA is a sport with a rule set and a referee, and you're wrong. You can drop bombs onto someone's face in MMA, the fight is only stopped if the ground fighter can not or is not intelligently defending themselves.

arybvtcw0eolkf

zenno wrote: »

I don't want anything to do with you.

I just updated this thread and i'll leave it at that.

zenno wrote: »

Why don't you watch the video before you post again please.

Less than an hour, I've dated girls who've held grudges longer

laoch na mona

Jamir Beautiful Wallflower wrote: »

.


MMA is a sport with a rule set and a referee, and you're wrong. You can drop bombs onto someone's face in MMA, the fight is only stopped if the ground fighter can not or is not intelligently defending themselves.

exactly once its gone far enough to achieve the desired result (victory)
police should stop was desired result (arrest) was achieved

MagicSean

laoch na mona wrote: »

how much force would be needed to take down a homeless man? he hardly posed a significant threat

That's a pretty stupid question to be honest. It depends on the person. Some people have no off switch and will fight with all their strength until they have no energy left. You'd be surprised at how much strength a person can muster when flooded with adrenaline. And you aren't simply taking them down. You are trying to restrain them and prevent them injuring you at the same time.

Having said that, I thought the Americans had procedures for escalating their level of force in stages which seem to have been ignored here. I can see the excessive force charge being upheld, maybe the manslaughter too. I can't see the murder charge being successful

arybvtcw0eolkf

laoch na mona wrote: »

exactly once its gone far enough to achieve the desired result (victory)
police should stop was desired result (arrest) was achieved

Well they clearly didn't and now they're going to trial for their actions.

Why are you comparing a violent incident which resulted in the death of a man with a sport, you're comparing apples and oranges tbh.

laoch na mona

Jamir Beautiful Wallflower wrote: »

Well they clearly didn't and now they're going to trial for their actions.

Why are you comparing a violent incident which resulted in the death of a man with a sport, you're comparing apples and oranges tbh.

im using an analogy that i thought would help you understand as you dont want to accept the facts

arybvtcw0eolkf

laoch na mona wrote: »

im using an analogy that i thought would help you understand as you dont want to accept the facts

Try make yourself a little clearer so, I'm losing patience and have to get some kip before work tonight.

Icyseanfitz

Jamir Beautiful Wallflower wrote: »

The first two cops look fat and unfit, I'd say they find it hard to drop their cacks tbh..

I'm not sure anyone suggested reasonable force was used, sometimes unreasonable force must be used.. Excessive force is another thing altogether.. But I don't think the cops set out to murder the guy otherwise a bullet in the head would have been easier.





MMA is a sport with a rule set and a referee, and you're wrong. You can drop bombs onto someone's face in MMA, the fight is only stopped if the ground fighter can not or is not intelligently defending themselves.

and the homeless guy was in the prime of fitness and health, why didnt they just taze and cuff him if he was causing so much trouble (which from what i saw he really wasnt).

what they did to that poor man is unjustifiable, especially considering one of those cops out and out said he was going to kick the ****e out of him

arybvtcw0eolkf

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

and the homeless guy was in the prime of fitness and health, why didnt they just taze and cuff him if he was causing so much trouble (which from what i saw he really wasnt).

I bet they wish they did now!.

Personally I think they should have let him run off if he hadn't done anything.

Icyseanfitz

Jamir Beautiful Wallflower wrote: »

I bet they wish they did now!.

Personally I think they should have let him run off if he hadn't done anything.

yeah its not like he was a danger to anyone, should have just left him go but tbh those fcukers where just looking for someone easy to beat up on, they didnt think they where being recorded

zenno

Jamir Beautiful Wallflower wrote: »

I bet they wish they did now!.

Personally I think they should have let him run off if he hadn't done anything.

Why would he run off if he hadn't done anything ? he ran because he was going to be fcuked up as officer ramus said while putting the rubber gloves on.

Call Me Jimmy

CreepingDeath wrote: »

Anyone else notice that his father is demanding justice but if he cared that much, why was his son homeless at all ?

Do you know anything about schizophrenia at all?

Patrick2010

video here..

http://thefullertonian.com/Article/Details/608

jomc

Patrick2010 wrote: »

video here..

http://thefullertonian.com/Article/Details/608

As much as i consider myself prepared for the worlds failings....there is no way i'm clicking that

arybvtcw0eolkf

jomc wrote: »

As much as i consider myself prepared for the worlds failings....there is no way i'm clicking that

Well in fairness if you're gonna involve yourself in a thread I think you should, but it is very graphic and at times really difficult to listen to.

IMO its the right decision to prosecute the first police officer and maybe the second.

But unless your used to violent situations its hard to detach yourself from what you're witnessing and you will find it upsetting.

steddyeddy

I will point out that not all cops in America are like this. Even a cop in America will tell you that new york and los angelas cops are ones to avoid!

Call Me Jimmy

Jamir Beautiful Wallflower wrote: »

The first two cops look fat and unfit, I'd say they find it hard to drop their cacks tbh..

I'm not sure anyone suggested reasonable force was used, sometimes unreasonable force must be used.. Excessive force is another thing altogether.. But I don't think the cops set out to murder the guy otherwise a bullet in the head would have been easier.

I'm interested to know why you mention that unreasonable force must be used sometimes, then say excessive force is another thing altogether. Which one would you apply to this case in your opinion?

I agree that they didn't 'set out' to murder the guy, but a bullet in the head would absolutely not be easier for them because they would have no hope of talking themselves out of it, which I believe was there intention to do so.

They fabricated a situation in which they could express their sadistic urges using their authority. They also knew that this guy's word, credibility and accurate recalling of events would be called in to question if any flak came their way. They didn't set out to kill him, but they did set out to cause maximum harm while maintaining their reputation.

steddyeddy

I thought that manslaughter is murder minus the original intent to kill. If a cop kicked a guy in the head multiple times in the head and was surprised when he died he was too stupid to be a cop.

MaxSteele

Pretty brutal alright.

Hopefully this will force relatives of schizophrenics to keep a stern eye on them at all times. Some people are just too vulnerable to be let outside.

Obviously American cops aren't capable of separating cooperation with mental illness.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Call Me Jimmy wrote: »

I'm interested to know why you mention that unreasonable force must be used sometimes, then say excessive force is another thing altogether. Which one would you apply to this case in your opinion?

I agree that they didn't 'set out' to murder the guy, but a bullet in the head would absolutely not be easier for them because they would have no hope of talking themselves out of it, which I believe was there intention to do so.

They fabricated a situation in which they could express their sadistic urges using their authority. They also knew that this guy's word, credibility and accurate recalling of events would be called in to question if any flak came their way. They didn't set out to kill him, but they did set out to cause maximum harm while maintaining their reputation.

I'm not sure if you're talking about the cops who have been charged or all the cops.

I won't condone what the original two cops done, I've made it clear that I think they should have let the guy run off into the night if he wasn't a wanted fugitive.

The other cops, well although I'm not a cop I can only draw on my own experiences of violent situations having been a bouncer for twenty plus years ~ so I've been in more violent situations than most, and almost all involved cops coming to our assistance at some point.

Listening to the poor man screaming is upsetting, and tbh before I put on my 'work hat' I found it gut wrenching.. But then drawing on my own experiences people will scream and plead all sorts while still having some intend of fighting you ~ in this instance I think the man was fighting back, which is a silly thing to do with cops regardless where they are.

The cops arriving on the scene only find someone who they think is violent and resisting arrest and they forcefully apply their control and restraint techniques on the guy ~ this primarily ensures their safety from assault, but in the case of someone they believe is on drugs (more than one cop mentions "he's on something") there's a further concern that the guy is HIV+, Hep or has TB and that you risk cross infection from him.

You can't meet force with equal force and expect to win, you have to meet it with greater force, 'peace through superior firepower' and all that..

Some will say that six against one is enough to subdue someone, and sometimes they're right but again drawing from personal experience a max of four is all thats required after which you just get clumsy and its harder to work your control and restraints.

I viewed the clip, and the hospital photos taken afterwards and as horrific as the photos are there is nothing to say some of those injuries didn't happen before the arrest ~ homeless people are usually in pretty bad shape, they're routinely beat up by their own. They're kicked and spat on by passers by etc. Its rare I'd meet a homeless person who isn't showing signs of a recent fight.

I'd like to think the had the cop #1 known the guy had mental health problems he's have de-escalated the situation from the get-go, but his body language makes me think he was nervous and didn't know the guy.

Right, taking off that hat and back to moi ~ From working in and around Templebar I know a lot of homeless people, mostly they're good people and (mostly) homeless through no fault of their own, I take the view 'there but fr the grace of God go I'.. But they can be very violent too.

I know a lot of cops, the vast majority of who are very good at their job. But I've seen enough sh*tbags in uniform too over the years, but not enough to make me think they're all the same.

Sorry for the long winded reply.

Icyseanfitz

Jamir Beautiful Wallflower wrote: »

I'm not sure if you're talking about the cops who have been charged or all the cops.

I won't condone what the original two cops done, I've made it clear that I think they should have let the guy run off into the night if he wasn't a wanted fugitive.

The other cops, well although I'm not a cop I can only draw on my own experiences of violent situations having been a bouncer for twenty plus years ~ so I've been in more violent situations than most, and almost all involved cops coming to our assistance at some point.

Listening to the poor man screaming is upsetting, and tbh before I put on my 'work hat' I found it gut wrenching.. But then drawing on my own experiences people will scream and plead all sorts while still having some intend of fighting you ~ in this instance I think the man was fighting back, which is a silly thing to do with cops regardless where they are.

The cops arriving on the scene only find someone who they think is violent and resisting arrest and they forcefully apply their control and restraint techniques on the guy ~ this primarily ensures their safety from assault, but in the case of someone they believe is on drugs (more than one cop mentions "he's on something") there's a further concern that the guy is HIV+, Hep or has TB and that you risk cross infection from him.

You can't meet force with equal force and expect to win, you have to meet it with greater force, 'peace through superior firepower' and all that..

Some will say that six against one is enough to subdue someone, and sometimes they're right but again drawing from personal experience a max of four is all thats required after which you just get clumsy and its harder to work your control and restraints.

I viewed the clip, and the hospital photos taken afterwards and as horrific as the photos are there is nothing to say some of those injuries didn't happen before the arrest ~ homeless people are usually in pretty bad shape, they're routinely beat up by their own. They're kicked and spat on by passers by etc. Its rare I'd meet a homeless person who isn't showing signs of a recent fight.

I'd like to think the had the cop #1 known the guy had mental health problems he's have de-escalated the situation from the get-go, but his body language makes me think he was nervous and didn't know the guy.

Right, taking off that hat and back to moi ~ From working in and around Templebar I know a lot of homeless people, mostly they're good people and (mostly) homeless through no fault of their own, I take the view 'there but fr the grace of God go I'.. But they can be very violent too.

I know a lot of cops, the vast majority of who are very good at their job. But I've seen enough sh*tbags in uniform too over the years, but not enough to make me think they're all the same.

Sorry for the long winded reply.

good post, but tbh who wouldnt try to fight back if they where being beat to within an inch of their life, or even thinking you where regardless of who was doing it, thats just human nature, those scum 2 pushed beyond what they should have done to the guy (with regards to being cops) into assaulting the man, what was he supposed to do while they broke his bones and wailed on him, just lie there

3ndahalfof6

Locked up and keys thrown away, blatant miss use of their power, let them spend some time with the real felons.

goodie2shoes

having lived in America for some time, my advice is never talkback to cops, and if they decide to arrest you, then under no circumstances should you resist.

if you do otherwise you will enter a world of misery.

cops in America have a most difficult and dangerous task.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

good post, but tbh who wouldnt try to fight back if they where being beat to within an inch of their life, or even thinking you where regardless of who was doing it, thats just human nature, those scum 2 pushed beyond what they should have done to the guy (with regards to being cops) into assaulting the man, what was he supposed to do while they broke his bones and wailed on him, just lie there

Honestly I've no idea and have often wondered the same thing myself, ie what would I do in a similar situation.

Patrick2010

Jamir Beautiful Wallflower wrote: »

I'm not sure if you're talking about the cops who have been charged or all the cops.

I won't condone what the original two cops done, I've made it clear that I think they should have let the guy run off into the night if he wasn't a wanted fugitive.

The other cops, well although I'm not a cop I can only draw on my own experiences of violent situations having been a bouncer for twenty plus years ~ so I've been in more violent situations than most, and almost all involved cops coming to our assistance at some point.

Listening to the poor man screaming is upsetting, and tbh before I put on my 'work hat' I found it gut wrenching.. But then drawing on my own experiences people will scream and plead all sorts while still having some intend of fighting you ~ in this instance I think the man was fighting back, which is a silly thing to do with cops regardless where they are.

The cops arriving on the scene only find someone who they think is violent and resisting arrest and they forcefully apply their control and restraint techniques on the guy ~ this primarily ensures their safety from assault, but in the case of someone they believe is on drugs (more than one cop mentions "he's on something") there's a further concern that the guy is HIV+, Hep or has TB and that you risk cross infection from him.

You can't meet force with equal force and expect to win, you have to meet it with greater force, 'peace through superior firepower' and all that..

Some will say that six against one is enough to subdue someone, and sometimes they're right but again drawing from personal experience a max of four is all thats required after which you just get clumsy and its harder to work your control and restraints.

I viewed the clip, and the hospital photos taken afterwards and as horrific as the photos are there is nothing to say some of those injuries didn't happen before the arrest ~ homeless people are usually in pretty bad shape, they're routinely beat up by their own. They're kicked and spat on by passers by etc. Its rare I'd meet a homeless person who isn't showing signs of a recent fight.

I'd like to think the had the cop #1 known the guy had mental health problems he's have de-escalated the situation from the get-go, but his body language makes me think he was nervous and didn't know the guy.

Right, taking off that hat and back to moi ~ From working in and around Templebar I know a lot of homeless people, mostly they're good people and (mostly) homeless through no fault of their own, I take the view 'there but fr the grace of God go I'.. But they can be very violent too.

I know a lot of cops, the vast majority of who are very good at their job. But I've seen enough sh*tbags in uniform too over the years, but not enough to make me think they're all the same.

Sorry for the long winded reply.

In the video the cop said they'd met the victim a lot of times, wouldn't they have known he had issues?