Horrific Footage of Homeless Schizophrenic beaten by cops

goodie2shoes

mattjack wrote: »

I work with homeless people, most don't have Hiv/hep or open wounds.
I rarely wear protective gloves unless I specifically have too and never wear a face mask.

i suppose it depends on exactly what type of work you do.
you clearly have no idea what you are doing or talking about.
you ought to try and educate yourself if you continue to work in this area.


http://www.news-medical.net/news/20120820/Infectious-disease-rates-are-high-among-homeless-people.aspx

http://www.wellcome.ac.uk/News/2012/News/WTVM056153.htm

http://www.thejournal.ie/infectious-diseases-tb-aids-hepatitis-562296-Aug2012/

3ndahalfof6

goodie2shoes wrote: »

i suppose it depends on exactly what type of work you do.
you clearly have no idea what you are doing or talking about.
you ought to try and educate yourself if you continue to work in this area.


http://www.news-medical.net/news/20120820/Infectious-disease-rates-are-high-among-homeless-people.aspx

http://www.wellcome.ac.uk/News/2012/News/WTVM056153.htm

http://www.thejournal.ie/infectious-diseases-tb-aids-hepatitis-562296-Aug2012/

Do you have anything nice to say?

Odysseus

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

probably is :pac:

Really there is no need for that. I don't want to be associated with that.

I spend a lot of time with guys who have issues, addictions, homeless, HIV, HEP, the list just goes on.

However, I too would like to know where this poster is drawing his experience from, things get messy in clinics, very messy the odd time. So I think I know a bit about dealing with people, not people like that, just people.

We do not know if his mental illness was active at this point in time, it could make him more passive, but also aggressive. There is just so much we do not know.

However, if you want to move a person who does not want to move you would be surprised at the amount of bodies it can take.

I was doing my best to avoid posting in this thread, just did not want to get caught up in it. There are a lot of things at play here, I do think the cops used excessive force but I also believe that situations like this are very complex and they are not easy to understand.

mattjack

goodie2shoes wrote: »

i suppose it depends on exactly what type of work you do.
you clearly have no idea what you are doing or talking about.
you ought to try and educate yourself if you continue to work in this area.


http://www.news-medical.net/news/20120820/Infectious-disease-rates-are-high-among-homeless-people.aspx

http://www.wellcome.ac.uk/News/2012/News/WTVM056153.htm

http://www.thejournal.ie/infectious-diseases-tb-aids-hepatitis-562296-Aug2012/

All the same article.

Give us your own life experiences with the homeless community in Ireland while you're rattling away there.

I've had my LFT ,bloods for blood bourne and TB testing , all clear.

All my colleagues mustn't have a clue either.

Odysseus

goodie2shoes wrote: »

i suppose it depends on exactly what type of work you do.
you clearly have no idea what you are doing or talking about.
you ought to try and educate yourself if you continue to work in this area.


http://www.news-medical.net/news/20120820/Infectious-disease-rates-are-high-among-homeless-people.aspx

http://www.wellcome.ac.uk/News/2012/News/WTVM056153.htm

http://www.thejournal.ie/infectious-diseases-tb-aids-hepatitis-562296-Aug2012/

Any research papers from Public health here though? I am not sure that this reseach would paint an accurate picture of infectious diseases over here.

So what job are you in?

goodie2shoes

Odysseus wrote: »

Any research papers from Public health here though? I am not sure that this reseach would paint an accurate picture of infectious diseases over here.

So what job are you in?

you're not making much sense.

"In the US, the prevalence of tuberculosis is at least 46 times greater in the homeless population than the general population, and the prevalence of hepatitis C viral infection is increased more than fourfold. In the UK, the prevalence of tuberculosis is at least 34 times greater in homeless people than in the general population, and the prevalence of hepatitis C viral infection is nearly 50 times greater. For HIV, they were typically 1-20 fold higher in US homeless people than the general population, but no studies were found in the UK. Similar patterns were observed in most other countries for which data were available. Other countries covered in the study included France, India, Sweden, Ireland and Brazil."

goodie2shoes

mattjack wrote: »

[/B]

All the same article.

Give us your own life experiences with the homeless community in Ireland while you're rattling away there.

I've had my LFT ,bloods for blood bourne and TB testing , all clear.

All my colleagues mustn't have a clue either.

this thread relates to an incident in America.
please stay on topic.

Icyseanfitz

Odysseus wrote: »

Really there is no need for that. I don't want to be associated with that.

I spend a lot of time with guys who have issues, addictions, homeless, HIV, HEP, the list just goes on.

However, I too would like to know where this poster is drawing his experience from, things get messy in clinics, very messy the odd time. So I think I know a bit about dealing with people, not people like that, just people.

We do not know if his mental illness was active at this point in time, it could make him more passive, but also aggressive. There is just so much we do not know.

However, if you want to move a person who does not want to move you would be surprised at the amount of bodies it can take.

I was doing my best to avoid posting in this thread, just did not want to get caught up in it. There are a lot of things at play here, I do think the cops used excessive force but I also believe that situations like this are very complex and they are not easy to understand.

for what

goodie2shoes

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

for what

careful now!

mattjack

goodie2shoes wrote: »

this thread relates to an incident in America.
please stay on topic.

Give it a rest , will ya.You the one who hasn't a clue what you're talking about.

Odysseus

goodie2shoes wrote: »

you're not making much sense.

"In the US, the prevalence of tuberculosis is at least 46 times greater in the homeless population than the general population, and the prevalence of hepatitis C viral infection is increased more than fourfold. In the UK, the prevalence of tuberculosis is at least 34 times greater in homeless people than in the general population, and the prevalence of hepatitis C viral infection is nearly 50 times greater. For HIV, they were typically 1-20 fold higher in US homeless people than the general population, but no studies were found in the UK. Similar patterns were observed in most other countries for which data were available".

Am I not , oh dear, apologies, it seemed that your position needed clarity. I have no stats here; but those rates for TB would not be consistent with the clinical picture presented by that particular cohort in Ireland. For HIV is that a 1 to 20 fold possible increase? That is a big guess why could the authors not state a fixed number within that range?

Thankfully our rates for HIV in Ireland are not too bad, of course they could be better and IIRC there was a slight increase last year or maybe the year before. However, our HIV rate does not match the US by a long margin IIRC.

Whilst the rate of Hep C in IVDU was very high a one stage, from what I understand this rate has dropped.

Now that you have pointed out your difficulties with the presentation, can you deal with the content?

So to ask two questions again:
(i)Have you any research from Irish sources that would concur with that particular piece of research?

(ii) What type of job do you do, which has given you this insight into dealing with people who may be MI and homeless?

goodie2shoes

mattjack wrote: »

Give it a rest , will ya.You the one who hasn't a clue what you're talking about.

if you want to begin another thread about homelessness in Ireland, then please go ahead.
this thread is dealing with CCTV footage recording of the arrest (and subsequent death) of a homeless man in AMERICA.

Odysseus

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

for what

Your comment that this poster probably works of the HSE. Whilst we are not perfect I have worked in the HSE since 96, we do our best to be respectful of vulnerable clients.

goodie2shoes

Odysseus wrote: »

Am I not , oh dear, apologies, it seemed that your position needed clarity. I have no stats here; but those rates for TB would not be consistent with the clinical picture presented by that particular cohort in Ireland. For HIV is that a 1 to 20 fold possible increase? That is a big guess why could the authors not state a fixed number within that range?

Thankfully our rates for HIV in Ireland are not too bad, of course they could be better and IIRC there was a slight increase last year or maybe the year before. However, our HIV rate does not match the US by a long margin IIRC.

Whilst the rate of Hep C in IVDU was very high a one stage, from what I understand this rate has dropped.

Now that you have pointed out your difficulties with the presentation, can you deal with the content?

So to ask two questions again:
(i)Have you any research from Irish sources that would concur with that particular piece of research?

Good Lord some folk need it spelling out!:rolleyes:

"Fazel, whose study was published in The Lancet Infectious Diseases journal, said similar patterns were found in most other countries where data were available. Other countries covered in the study included France, India, Sweden, Ireland and Brazil."

Odysseus wrote: »

(ii) What type of job do you do, which has given you this insight into dealing with people who may be MI and homeless?

My occupation has nothing to do with this thread.

Icyseanfitz

Odysseus wrote: »

Your comment that this poster probably works of the HSE. Whilst we are not perfect I have worked in the HSE since 96, we do our best to be respectful of vulnerable clients.

it was made in jest hence the ":pac:"

mattjack

goodie2shoes wrote: »

if you want to begin another thread about homelessness in Ireland, then please go ahead.
this thread is dealing with CCTV footage recording of the arrest (and subsequent death) of a homeless man in AMERICA.

Please , do tell your own experiences and knowledge of homeless people ?
A little than your previous comment about many of them having HEP C and HIV as well as open wounds might allow us to gauge your knowledge ?

Odysseus

goodie2shoes wrote: »

you're not making much sense.

"In the US, the prevalence of tuberculosis is at least 46 times greater in the homeless population than the general population, and the prevalence of hepatitis C viral infection is increased more than fourfold. In the UK, the prevalence of tuberculosis is at least 34 times greater in homeless people than in the general population, and the prevalence of hepatitis C viral infection is nearly 50 times greater. For HIV, they were typically 1-20 fold higher in US homeless people than the general population, but no studies were found in the UK. Similar patterns were observed in most other countries for which data were available. Other countries covered in the study included France, India, Sweden, Ireland and Brazil."

Maybe my headache is worse that I thought, but which article is the above from? I have re-read the three you give links to and I cannot see that last sentense in any of them, the rest I can see but not the bit that names France,... As I said maybe its me.

twowheelsonly

goodie2shoes wrote: »

yes i would make it very clear to him that he needs to comply, or he will face severe coercive action. one could also quote the subsection of the Law Enforcement act applicable in these situations.

i might be wrong but somehow i dont think this guy would appreciate my choice of language. like i said unless you are faced with dealing with some guy drugged out of his head, possibly being highly infectious with HIV, TB, or Hep you have little idea what you are talking about.

it's very easy to sit safely behind your PC and to pontificate & judge the cops who have to face extremely dangerous situations on a daily basis.

goodie2shoes wrote: »

no. do what we say or we will make you do it.
what's the alternative?

blow the guy a kiss, just walk away and say "oh well if you dont wish to be arrested, then i suppose we'll just get back into our patrol car and head back to the station".

are you living in the real world?
i think you're spending too much time at your PC.

goodie2shoes wrote: »

Good Lord some folk need it spelling out!:rolleyes:

"Fazel, whose study was published in The Lancet Infectious Diseases journal, said similar patterns were found in most other countries where data were available. Other countries covered in the study included France, India, Sweden, Ireland and Brazil."



My occupation has nothing to do with this thread.

Well seeing as you're the one pontificating on how you would have handled the situation and, reading between the lines, are happy enough with how those cops handled it you give the impression that you have experience in these type of situations. Hence people are interested in that experience and by extension what job you do.
If you don't want to answer that then just answer whether or not your job does entail you dealing with people like this?

Mine does and IMO these Officers made a complete pigs ass of it.
They had 15 minutes + to assess the guy, a guy that they already knew judging by the transcript. Usually you have less than a minute before a situation escalates. They however escalated the situation without any provocation.
You can't have 30 stone leaning on a guys back and scream at him to leave out his arm. You have to give him the chance to do it. The more you lean on him the harder it is for you or him to get it out. These two cops did so much wrong that it's actually incredible.
Like Maikkomi I also feel a little sorry for the subsequent cops. They were only responding to a violent situation and had to react thus without knowing the circumstances. It's pretty obvious though that the initial two did most of the damage.

Overall, a shocking incident that should never have gone that far in the first place.

Odysseus

goodie2shoes wrote: »

Get real.
many of these homeless people are positive for HIV and/or Hep. many have open wounds which would be highly infectious.

if i was about to manhandle someone like this, i would also put on protective gloves.
personally i would also wear a face mask.

goodie2shoes wrote: »

yes i would make it very clear to him that he needs to comply, or he will face severe coercive action. one could also quote the subsection of the Law Enforcement act applicable in these situations.

i might be wrong but somehow i dont think this guy would appreciate my choice of language. like i said unless you are faced with dealing with some guy drugged out of his head, possibly being highly infectious with HIV, TB, or Hep you have little idea what you are talking about.

it's very easy to sit safely behind your PC and to pontificate & judge the cops who have to face extremely dangerous situations on a daily basis.

The above post would imply that your occputaion may indeed have something to do with the thread, which is why people are asking where you get this experience from.

As you inform people that unless they have had to face up to people who may have such issues, that they do not know what they are talking about. We are asking you can you stand up to your own statement?

I'm well known around here so a lot of people know where I get my experience from, so where do you get your experience from?

Alkers

There is an online petition calling for all 6 officers who were present to be removed from their jobs!
http://www.change.org/petitions/remove-all-6-fullerton-police-officers-involved-in-the-murder-of-kelly-thomas#share

round tower huntsman

sickos. many of our own garda would be quite at home in that police unit tbh.

Odysseus

goodie2shoes wrote: »

Good Lord some folk need it spelling out!:rolleyes:

"Fazel, whose study was published in The Lancet Infectious Diseases journal, said similar patterns were found in most other countries where data were available. Other countries covered in the study included France, India, Sweden, Ireland and Brazil."



My occupation has nothing to do with this thread.

Please do, you still have not answered the question, which of those three articles is that quote from?

Is it just me? Have anyone else read those articles and failed to see that line?

I have addressed the occupation issue in another post.

steddyeddy

goodie2shoes wrote: »

i suppose it depends on exactly what type of work you do.
you clearly have no idea what you are doing or talking about.
you ought to try and educate yourself if you continue to work in this area.


http://www.news-medical.net/news/20120820/Infectious-disease-rates-are-high-among-homeless-people.aspx

http://www.wellcome.ac.uk/News/2012/News/WTVM056153.htm

http://www.thejournal.ie/infectious-diseases-tb-aids-hepatitis-562296-Aug2012/

You argue with others on this thread who have gave their professions and professional opinions many times and then you bash off the mantra "you have no idea what you'r talking about". Untill you give us any reason to doubt that eg experience or profession, people can only assume your mantra only holds true for you.

end of the road

Jamir Beautiful Wallflower wrote: »

These mans screams don't bother me in the least tbh.

the screams of a man being beaten to death don't bother you? ffs

Jamir Beautiful Wallflower wrote: »

I doubt he was intentionally murdered,

he was all right, but don't let your defending police at all costs mentality get in the way.

Jamir Beautiful Wallflower wrote: »

quit with the hysterics ffs.

ah yeah, a man murdered by violent ferrile trash and you wonder why their is hysterics?

Jamir Beautiful Wallflower wrote: »

People scream all the time, even those who aren't dying.

and your point is? i think screaming because your been badly beaten is rather serious to be honest. their was no excuse for that level of force in this situation.

3ndahalfof6

end of the road wrote: »

the screams of a man being beaten to death don't bother you? ffs


he was all right, but don't let your defending police at all costs mentality get in the way.

Jamir Beautiful Wallflower wrote: »

quit with the hysterics ffs.
ah yeah, a man murdered by violent ferrile trash and you wonder why their is hysterics?


and your point is? i think screaming because your been badly beaten is rather serious to be honest. their was no excuse for that level of force in this situation.

It is not the 1st and it will not be the last, while we are keyboard warriors, they are backed up warriors, badge, uniform, we are the law, fook the rules.

end of the road

goodie2shoes wrote: »

cops in America have a most difficult and dangerous task.

and they don't anywhere else? the nature of the job is danger and difficulty, if one feels they can't deal with that then don't become a cop.

end of the road

goodie2shoes wrote: »

he resisted arrest, so the cops were quite right to take him by force.

yeah, by force, not by beating him to death.

goodie2shoes wrote: »

what would you do? call his mom.

no need to get smart

goodie2shoes

end of the road wrote: »

and they don't anywhere else? the nature of the job is danger and difficulty, if one feels they can't deal with that then don't become a cop.

i think you'll find policing homeless disease-ridden druggies &/or gun-toting gangbangers in California or NY is slightly more hazardous than dealing with some drunken BIFFO rolling outta the local disko of a Sat night.

Nice try:D

goodie2shoes

end of the road wrote: »

yeah, by force, not by beating him to death.

no need to get smart

yes they took him by force. it was unfortunate he died. but given a choice, i would rather see some homeless guy die than a police officer.
obviously it would be better if no-one died.
it would be better if there were no homeless, drugged up schizos, but life isn't like that.

end of the road

goodie2shoes wrote: »

i have absolutely no issue with the cop's response.

jesus

goodie2shoes wrote: »

this guy was no Mother Teresa.

whether he was or not is irrelevant.

goodie2shoes wrote: »

perhaps if we had more police like them patrolling our streets at weekends, we might have more respect for law and order.

oh? really? i'd say it would be more like riot central if the likes of those cops were patrolling our streets as it would make what happened in the vidio a very common occurrence. i think you'l find beating people to death makes people have less respect for law and order by the way.