Overeem Pulled Before Hearing. JDS V Mir

MrStuffins

jayteecork wrote: »

What the feck are you on?

It's called having an opinion.

Dos Santos is probably the most talented HW champ ever, Cain isn't far behind.

Not the point. (Also, it's way too early to call JDS the most talented HW Champ ever)

I'm pretty sure when SF was bought out by Zuffa the general consensus here was the HW division is now stacked and there's loads of top fighters with plenty of great bouts in store, I.m pretty sure you were part of this consensus, Stuffins.

I don't think I ever said the HW division was stacked. I thought the HW division was at it's strongest just before the Zuffa buyout actually. There were plenty of contenders, but they all beat each other.

Aside from that I think the skyscraper has been improving leaps and bounds, Big Country is always fun to watch, Werdum looks legit, and I'm looking forward to Cain/Bigfoot cause I don't think one bad performance can distract from a guy who annilhilated Fedor and Arlovski.

Skyscraper is not good enough to be champ of the world. Big Country even less so. Werdum is decent. Bigfoot is decent. As for Fedor & Arlovski......... is this 2005?

Either you guys are trolling or I dunno what, this is the best HW division ever.

Maybe it is, but it's still a poor division.

Why is the main card of 146 Hw only?
Cause it's a feckin exciting division right now, that's why.

No it's not.

You want Sylvia v Alovski or Mir versus WES SIMS again?

You're missing the point. I'm not saying the HW Division isn't as good as it was before. I'm just saying it's a terrible division.

And it shows how bad it is when you list 5 fighters in the division and one of them in Mark Hunt!

Compare it to the LHW division where you've got guys like Henderson, Edgar, Pettis, Maynard, any of who could be a worthy champ, then guys vying to get in there like Miller, Guida, Diaz, Cowboy, Barboza, a further step down you've STILL got guys like Sherk, Dunham, Guillard............ and then other top guys outside the UFC like Chandler, Aoki, Alvarez, Melendez..........

But yeah, Overeem fails a drugs test and people are trying to get Mark Hunt a title shot. It's a poor division! Shallow as hell!

Mellor

Guys you are making too different points.

jayteecork is saying that the HW is the best it has ever been since Zuffa bought SF. Which is probably true.

Stuffins is saying that the HW is shallow. And there is a lack of contenders and up and coming fighters. Which is also true.


The fact is that the HW div is always suffer from a shallow fighter pool and a lack of elite guys simply because there aren't that many fighters above 16 stone that are elite. the fighters are bigger on average compared to boxers or kick boxers.
But its still a massively draw. Event threads for cards with big HW fights are always packed with casual fans. It's just the way it is. Sure look at this thread, almost 100 posts in and halfway through the 3rd page. Despite the fact that there are few elite HWs, we still all give a **** about the belt.

Cain v JDS 2 will be huge

MrStuffins

Indeed. HW fights are always huge draws.

BUt you just have to look at Boxing to know that most of the time that's completely without merit!

insanity50

http://thereem.com/docu/31/24/Ep-11-Good-Bad-and-The-Ugly.html


new episdoe of the reem lads documeting the drugs scandal.

Be like Nutella

He knew it was wrong to do and he still self injected and he's a very smart individual... I call maaaaaahaaaaaajor bullsh1t! He'll never fight in the UFC and if he does I won't watch another one. P.E.D. users discredit their entire sport and remove all confidence. I don't reckon we're at a cycling level of guaranteed PED use in MMA. Guys who get in the UFC and stay there for years having 6-10 fights are regularly tested and so PED use can't happen and therefore doesn't destroy the sport at the top, at present, am I wrong? of course other guys can come into the UFC from outside like Overeem who have been using but they'll just get busted like he did which just makes the testing more rigorous.

Kev M

Be like Nutella wrote: »

He knew it was wrong to do and he still self injected and he's a very smart individual... I call maaaaaahaaaaaajor bullsh1t! He'll never fight in the UFC and if he does I won't watch another one. P.E.D. users discredit their entire sport and remove all confidence. I don't reckon we're at a cycling level of guaranteed PED use in MMA. Guys who get in the UFC and stay there for years having 6-10 fights are regularly tested and so PED use can't happen and therefore doesn't destroy the sport at the top, at present, am I wrong? of course other guys can come into the UFC from outside like Overeem who have been using but they'll just get busted like he did which just makes the testing more rigorous.

You're wrong. plenty of ufc guys have tested positive, and continue to fight there.

Mellor

Be like Nutella wrote: »

He'll never fight in the UFC and if he does I won't watch another one.

I'd say there's a decent chance he'll fight in the UFC again.
and if he does, there is prob zero chance that you'll stop watching.

People have gotten caught, served their time and returned without much commotion. Just like every other sport.

davemc180

Kev M wrote: »

You're wrong. plenty of ufc guys have tested positive, and continue to fight there.

exactly, hel serve his ban and be back

take chael sonnen for example

Mellor

Mellor wrote: »

I'd say there's a decent chance he'll fight in the UFC again.

Regarding the Overeem, a reporter asked Dana the following at the UFC146 press conference.

Reporter:"What about Overeem..."
Dana White: "He lied to us. You know what I'm like. I don't have to deal with people I don't want to deal with. Lorenzo will [deal with them]".
Reporter: "Just to clarify, Lorenzo will deal with him means he will fight again in the UFC"
DW: "Yeah. My answer before was talk to Lorenzo about that"

The reporter pressed him a bit more Dana basically said that he went before the commission and he'll serve his ban and then has to apply again. Any will more or less come in to the division where he left off.

MMAIRELANDFAN

As soon as his ban is finished he will be back fighting and all will be forgot about

Be like Nutella

so are people saying here that there are many UFC fighters who are still fighting for the promotion and have had many fights who have been busted for PED use, served their time and now still fight for the UFC?
I don't believe that, and I don't believe that most UFC fighters or even many UFC fighters who fight regularly use PEDs. I know about the Sherks etc but it ain't a long list. And yeah I will probably still watch every single UFC ever, steroids or not : ) but at the time I totally meant it : )


Steroid busts by year:
’02: 1
’03: 1
’04: 1
’05: 1
’06: 4
’07: 14 (!)
’08: 5
’09: 4
’10: 2
’11: 2
’12: 3

Steroid busts by commission:
NSAC: 12
CSAC: 23
UFC’s independent testing: 3



http://www.cagepotato.com/mma-steroid-busts-definitive-timeline/

Plastikman_eire

Be like Nutella wrote: »

so are people saying here that there are many UFC fighters who are still fighting for the promotion and have had many fights who have been busted for PED use, served their time and now still fight for the UFC?
I don't believe that, and I don't believe that most UFC fighters or even many UFC fighters who fight regularly use PEDs. I know about the Sherks etc but it ain't a long list. And yeah I will probably still watch every single UFC ever, steroids or not : ) but at the time I totally meant it : )

Busted in the UFC, and still fought for the UFC:

Sonnen
Marquardt
Sherk
Franca
Sylvia
Bonnar
Leben
Thiago Silva


Signed by UFC, after failing elsewhere:

Hallman
Bigfoot
Belfort
Baroni

Some on the list might since have been cut, or in the case of Sonnen weaseled their way out of trouble, but i think its safe to say that prior cheating doesnt bother zuffa all that much.

Be like Nutella

fair enough but you're still talkin about a few guys out of hundreds in the UFC in the last 5 years and of that list only 5 or 6 contenders so I'm saying the sport isn't ruined by juicers yet like cycling is and with this whole Overeem controversy the in-house testing will just get more strict and Dana will take no bull**** from now on. A one year ban for a fighter in his prime is a massive blow to a career, I doubt there's many currently at the top of each weight group juicing within the UFC right now.

Plastikman_eire

Be like Nutella wrote: »

fair enough but you're still talkin about a few guys out of hundreds in the UFC in the last 5 years and of that list only 5 or 6 contenders so I'm saying the sport isn't ruined by juicers yet like cycling is and with this whole Overeem controversy the in-house testing will just get more strict and Dana will take no bull**** from now on. A one year ban for a fighter in his prime is a massive blow to a career, I doubt there's many currently at the top of each weight group juicing within the UFC right now.

I thought we were just talking about guys who got caught, getting another shot?

With regards to the sport as a whole; I've heard comments from fighters along the lines of "There are two types of athletes fighting at the top level, guys who use PED's and guys who get caught using PED's" and I think it was Dennis Hallman who claimed that his most conversative estimate was that 70% of top flight guys were using.

Be like Nutella

I don't doubt that grass roots MMA comps are full of fighters using PEDs... mind you I have nothing to back that up and neither does anyone else but I wouldn't argue with the opinion. But are the majority of say the top 15 guys in each weight group in the UFC right now using PEDs? and not getting caught? what do you think? I don't think so.. partly because I don't want to think so but also because there is testing in place and a lot of these guys are in the UFC for years getting tested regularly so I doubt they're doing it. There's something like 200/300 fighters on their books filling 20-25 cards annually with an awful lot of fighters with 5-10 fights in the UFC already over 2-3 years and you're talkin only 4 or 5 busted in the last 3 or 4 years out of all that. That would seem to say that there isn't a huge problem at the top of the game i.e. within the UFC right now.

Plastikman_eire

Be like Nutella wrote: »

I don't doubt that grass roots MMA comps are full of fighters using PEDs... mind you I have nothing to back that up and neither does anyone else but I wouldn't argue with the opinion. But are the majority of say the top 15 guys in each weight group in the UFC right now using PEDs? and not getting caught? what do you think? I don't think so.. partly because I don't want to think so but also because there is testing in place and a lot of these guys are in the UFC for years getting tested regularly so I doubt they're doing it. There's something like 200/300 fighters on their books filling 20-25 cards annually with an awful lot of fighters with 5-10 fights in the UFC already over 2-3 years and you're talkin only 4 or 5 busted in the last 3 or 4 years out of all that. That would seem to say that there isn't a huge problem at the top of the game i.e. within the UFC right now.

TBH i would think there is less use at the grass root level, I'd have thought the cost of PEDS would out weight what you can make fighting on small shows?

Personally I dont want to believe that guys at the upper levels of the sport are roiding, but im guessing guys like Hallman are more informed than I am.

Regards the testing, until recently afaik its been quite easy to work around, fighters know that they will be tested after a fight so cycle off within plenty of time to allow them to piss clean.

Personally, I say lift the ban, FORCE fighters to use! Then we get to sit back and watch as a bunch of angry, paranoid manbeasts with tiny testicles tear each other apart!

Be like Nutella

hahaha ok so there's no hope then everyone's juicin right so.

Mellor

Plastikman_eire wrote: »

TBH i would think there is less use at the grass root level, I'd have thought the cost of PEDS would out weight what you can make fighting on small shows?

I doubt the cost is that high. Thousands of recreational gym goers are taking PEDs. Making a monetary gain isn't the primary factor here either. Most people are just aiming for "Bigger, Stronger, Faster*"


Edit, to clarify. I'm suggest that PED use is far more rampant among recreational gym goers than regional level fighters.

UL_heart_throb

Be like Nutella wrote: »

I don't doubt that grass roots MMA comps are full of fighters using PEDs... mind you I have nothing to back that up and neither does anyone else but I wouldn't argue with the opinion.

Holy ****e how are you getting free reign in this thread. You obviously don't have a ****ing clue what you're talking about or who you're talking to.

You've basically accused every person that competes in MMA in Ireland of using PEDs. Surely this is against the charter.

Kev M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1-EYyWCtmg

Yourwellcum

UL_heart_throb wrote: »

Holy ****e how are you getting free reign in this thread. You obviously don't have a ****ing clue what you're talking about or who you're talking to.

You've basically accused every person that competes in MMA in Ireland of using PEDs. Surely this is against the charter.

I dont think he did. He sadi he woudlnt argue with the opinion that there may be fighters at grass roots level using PEDs. He also said he had no evidence either way.

The guy has an opinion and laid it out quite carefully.

Mr. Loverman

UL_heart_throb wrote: »

Holy ****e how are you getting free reign in this thread. You obviously don't have a ****ing clue what you're talking about or who you're talking to.

You've basically accused every person that competes in MMA in Ireland of using PEDs. Surely this is against the charter.

No he hasn't.

Kind of ironic the person falsely accusing someone of making outlandish statements is making one himself... :pac: