Boards Beef Discussion Group

LivInt20

jay gatsby wrote: »

Would I be right in saying then that in the following situation you have almost zero chance of getting BVD.

All sucklers
Buy replacements all over 24 months and served with AI
Stock bull bought at 24 months or all AI
Young stock sold at 9 months
Nothing else bought in or kept beyond weanling stage.

Is there any way for the disease to enter this herd other than a neighbour's stock?

The replacements you buy in could be a PI and carrying the BVD virus.

reilig

All sucklers
Buy replacements all over 24 months and served with AI
Could be in contact with a PI ot TI before you buy them and the foetus could be infected.
Stock bull bought at 24 months or all AI
Could have been in contact with a TI
Young stock sold at 9 months
If you brought 1 home from the mart unsold, it could be a TI

Nothing else bought in or kept beyond weanling stage.

Is there any way for the disease to enter this herd other than a neighbour's stock

Aimals looking across the hedge are as big of risk as anything

lab man

Charlie Charolais wrote: »

Suckler lads - pls vaccinate for IBR!
We are drystock farming & buy weanlings in - the big issue we have is respiratory problems;
I think the stress of weaning/mart/transport brings on the problems & we are chasing after it then
Prevention would definitely be better than cure in this case!

charlie,
whats is the name of the injection for this and at what stage would you give it,, and when selling is it worth saying that they are vaccinated.?

Charlie Charolais

lab man wrote: »

charlie,
whats is the name of the injection for this and at what stage would you give it,, and when selling is it worth saying that they are vaccinated.?

Hey lab, bitta reading in the link below. The important thing is that the booster is given after the first shot, one shot is useless on it's own. It'll do no harm to declare it when selling
http://www.magentadirect.ie/proddetail.php?prod=PneumoniaandIBRVaccine

reilig

Charlie Charolais wrote: »

Suckler lads - pls vaccinate for IBR!
We are drystock farming & buy weanlings in - the big issue we have is respiratory problems;
I think the stress of weaning/mart/transport brings on the problems & we are chasing after it then
Prevention would definitely be better than cure in this case!

Premium prices have been promised by the "Export Trade" for weanlings vaccinated in accordance with the Weanling Export Programmes in 2008.

We vaccinated in accordance with this program in 2007 and 2008 and saw little return for it. The marts stopped paying the €10 extra for the animals because the buyers stopped paying it. We spoke to an exporter who bought weanlings from us off the grass and he said that the Exporters Association concluded that it was easier for them to buy the weinlings and administer the vaccination themselves before shipping and it cut out the middle man. He also pointed out that it should be in the buyers interest to vaccinate as the animals arrive on the farm - because when a buyer buys a group of animals from a mart from various herds, some may be vaccinated and some not, so all are usually vaccinated again.

So who should the responsibility lie with to vaccinate?

In 2007/8, we announced that all our animals were vaccinated and it made no difference to price. They averaged the same as unvaccinated animals.

Should we vaccinate knowing that the majority of our animals will be bought for export and vaccinated again before they leave the mart ??

I'm not having a go, but there should be some set criteria by the Department of Ag. for it.

towzer2010

reilig wrote: »

.......... but there should be some set criteria by the Department of Ag. for it.

I dont think the dept should be involved in something like this. If buyers want it done they should pay extra for it and farmers would do it then.

We are becoming bogged down in red tape as it is.

Charlie Charolais

Hi Reilig,

I think this brings up an issue that needs addressing, we need to look at the full chain in beef production, all the way from the consumer back to the calver and look at how we can add value up through the chain rather than looking at our own section in isolation and to hell with the next man.

From my point of view I'd like the sucklers to vaccinate, for example, and I would take advise from the finishers to which I would be selling

DMAXMAN

as a buyer who bought weanlings in the w.e.p. time i had to have three different vaccines for the cattle when i brought them home to match what they had been done with first.saying that it was a great success. what i do now is give a large shot of alamycin 300 and a nasal vaccine on arriving home from mart. the best thing in the last year or two was the suckler cow scheme. the weaned calves are far less prone to pneumonia

pakalasa

On IBR -
I'm in the suckler Scheme and wean the calves in the autumn like I should. The last 2 years I notice that when weaned they are fine, but when the weather gets bad (wet and misty) they all seem to get snotty noses and start coughing. It wasn't a deep cough from the lungs like pneumonia and they were running around full of life. All of them would get it and they would have it for only a few days. Like a head-cold in humans.
Would this be IBR?

Charlie Charolais

pakalasa wrote: »

On IBR -

Hi pak, I'm no expert but it does sound like it, a head cold is a good description

Farmer Pudsey

A lot of suckler farmers have the idea that if they vaccinate that they should see a huge premium or else the buyer should pick up the cost. The reality is that is buyers have large losses in weanlings that they have less money to purchase replacements the following year.

However I can see where they are coming from when they see the farmer that will not vacinate getting the same price. Vacinating was orginally brought in because of the huge losses that Italian feedlot's had in the late noughties. The WEP scheme was also introduce to help alleviate this problem. The WEP scheme seems to addressed a lot of the selling freshly weaned calves and also these calves are on meal.

However suckler farmers should be aware that there can be a penelty in the mart if WEP is not followed. Last year I bought two good black LMX bulls 300 kgs for 565 euro because they were not weaned they just happened to fall to me because other farmers/dealers could see that they were not weaned and did not want to mix with weaned bulls in case they caused problems, mind you a month later these same people would have bought them as runners went mad.

reilig

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

A lot of suckler farmers have the idea that if they vaccinate that they should see a huge premium or else the buyer should pick up the cost. The reality is that is buyers have large losses in weanlings that they have less money to purchase replacements the following year.

I certainly don't expect a huge premium - enough to cover the cost of the vaccine would satisfy me. But with no record of vaccination and no display board showing it in the marts, there is little gain for me in the long run. Is it economical for me to vaccinate all of my weanlings when I know that the majority of them will be bought by an exporter who will vaccinate them a second time?

If there was something in place to compel me to have to vaccinate them or a system in place which let the buyer know that they were vaccinated, I would gladly do it - but right now its up in the air!

pakalasa

I know we covered fencing but watching these last night. ( I'm doing a bit at the moment). Guy really knows his stuff.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71YHr-v9vSE&feature=BFa&list=PLC669F8E76DAE332B
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAXQ0ec2IZ8&feature=BFa&list=PLC669F8E76DAE332B
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5cJI951J7s&feature=BFa&list=PLC669F8E76DAE332B
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvVd-vx96To&feature=BFa&list=PLC669F8E76DAE332B

Muckit

Yes seen these. He knows his stuff alright Still need to try out making the knot, save me a euro a gripple

Muckit

I think I rememeber him putting the plane too in an old boot!? He made sure it was got on camera too... show off!

just do it

reilig wrote: »

I spray, I chain harrow, I lime, I cover with slurry, I chain harrow one or two more times and then I spread the grass seed mixed with the fertilizer using a wagtail spreader, spreading at a low rate of application and using a chris-cross pattern to ensure that I go over each area twice. Then I roll.

Reilig
This is not the first time I've asked you regarding your technique! For this to work I take it you've the ground grazed down to the bare minimum before spraying? Also what's the time gap between the various stages? 7-10days from spraying before 1st chain harrow? How long do you leave the slurry before chain harrowing again?

Apologies if you've answered this further on in the thread, I'm working my way through it slowly but surely;)

just do it

pakalasa wrote: »

Disc Harrow in action;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYX86RvcR0k&list=PL56C4B64B4D98EFF6&index=113&feature=plpp_video

Power Harrow in action;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNgrFBvrLx0&feature=autoplay&list=PL56C4B64B4D98EFF6&playnext=1

Thanks for the videos Paka.

So what's the difference between disc and power harrow? Looking at the two I don't see much difference in the end result (having never reseeded anything more than a few sq m of lawn!)

reilig

I leave the sprayed ground for at least 2 weeks befoe harrowing. Graze it down very bare - cut it low with the disc mower if you have to. It has to be very bare. Chain harrow as soon after slurry as you can.

just do it wrote: »

Reilig
This is not the first time I've asked you regarding your technique! For this to work I take it you've the ground grazed down to the bare minimum before spraying? Also what's the time gap between the various stages? 7-10days from spraying before 1st chain harrow? How long do you leave the slurry before chain harrowing again?

Apologies if you've answered this further on in the thread, I'm working my way through it slowly but surely;)

Muckit

single strand HT + large post spacing = makes topping a doddle



New fence reel to subdivide paddocks. That's for meadow by the way!

Farmer Pudsey

reilig wrote: »

Now to how its done - as someone pointed out, there's a million ways to skin a cat! A simple and cheap reseed works as well for me as a €300 per acre reseed works in good land. I spray, I chain harrow, I lime, I cover with slurry, I chain harrow one or two more times and then I spread the grass seed mixed with the fertilizer using a wagtail spreader, spreading at a low rate of application and using a chris-cross pattern to ensure that I go over each area twice. Then I roll.
QUOTE]
Just a couple of questions relig what tyope of chain harrow is it one of the frame type's or is it just an old stlye harrow. Also why do you not put grass seed out befpre slurry I see that some farmers do this.

When useing wagtail to spread seed what speed do you go at is it very slow. I find it very hard to set wagtail to spread seed as it either spreads way too little or else it spreads just enough for one cover of land and you can get bare patches.

just do it

5 star wrote: »

New to boards but interested in beef discussion just getting into sucklers calved 6 this spring bought 10 more heifers and bull is with them at the moment. Also buy approximately 30 dairy bred bull calves ( fr, aax, hex) rear them and take them through to beef at 23 months approx. Farm 40ish acres part time in one field as originally was in tillage and all ditches knocked. Put up a slatted unit in 2010 and used digging out of tank to make roadway through roughly centre of field. Ran water pipe out alongside roadway underground. Divided above and below roadway into roughly 4 to 5 acre paddocks with permanent fence. At fence between two paddocks brought water over ground and ran water line overground along under the wire putting 3 90 gal jfc drinkers at even intervals. This has given 3 drinkers serving between 8 and 10 acres. Like Muckit 1 drinker does 4 subdivisions. I keep bulls below roadway in approx 12 acres which due to the placement of drinkers I was able to subdivide into 11 paddocks of reasonably even size. This worked a treat last year as I was able to move 30 bulls every 2 days to fresh grass while bearing out the paddocks at the same time and because all ground is freshly reseeded (2009 & 2010) great response to fertilizer also last year growth was good. Because bulls were moved on so quickly they did very little damage in unseatled weather except of course around the drinkers which is one disadvantage to having 4 paddocks served by 1 drinker. Bulls got familiar to being moved and would wait for you to open wire and walk straight through took 2to 3 min at most and this included walking out from the yard meant that wife could move them if I was not around. Also at both ends of the paddocks I had a gap in the permanent fence so that bulls can work down one side and be brought through to other side of the fence to work back up without having to drive them back to the top of the paddock to change them over. When grass started getting scarce brought some silage ground into rotation above the roadway. The bulls had big gains at grass which I put down to fresh grass every 2 days. On the silage ground I have temp fence which i roll up same as  muckit but I use the plastic handle at the end to roll the wire onto and put a wrap of insulating tape around it to keep it together and just hang it on the wire. Must subdivide these into smaller paddocks though as 16 heifers 6 calves and one breeding bull are taking over a week to clean out these roughly 2 acre sub divisions and I have grass everywhere not a bad complaint this year but I am way under stocked due to finishing fr bulls at 16 months this year I only have 12 bulls at grass and weanlings are too dear to buy IMO. I find the paddock system very flexible in that if grass goes too strong you can skip one or two subdivisions and take it out for bales. Fusion baler man not too happy calling to make 5 or 6 bales though. 
That's my 2 pence worth sorry so long winded

What a start! You're not new to farming though by the sounds of it. I like the way you use silage tape to keep the wire together. It's a bloody nuisance when it gets tangled.

just do it

5 star wrote: »

Used AI on 6 heifers last year 4 star bull at the time but has risen to 5 star since am very impressed with calves. Does this mean my bull could drop to 3 star or less depending on what weights my cattle kill out at?

What was the bil you used last year?

Your young bull's figures are likely to change alright. I can't say I know all the data ICBF use but kill out weights are definitely one if them for beef carcase.

pakalasa

Muckit wrote: »

Yes seen these. He knows his stuff alright Still need to try out making the knot, save me a euro a gripple

I tried doing the 'Tex Brown' knot (video on you tube) myself on 2 pieces of loose wire. Can't be done on loose wire. You need to do it with a Hayes type wire strainer. Man, that 2.5mm hi-tensile aire ain't easy to bend.

Dont be daft

Well lads,

Bedbound at the moment with torn ligaments in me back so I said I'd make a contribution to this thread since I've gotten so much from this forum.

We're running a Dairy Bull Beef system finishing between 19 and 22 months depending on the animal.

In terms of fencing my older brother did a few years with the FRS so all the boundaries are fenced with single strand high tensile on cresote stakes, all done to OCD standards.
He once said "Cattle just shouldnt break out, it shouldnt be possible". I think in about 8years there was only ever one aminal that got through a boundary fence.
The roadways have double strands cos their under a lot more pressure when you're moving bulls past other bulls
Individual paddocks are the same as boundary fences and average size is about 4.8 acres. These are then subdivided by reels and are moved daily. Starting to run back fences now.

Water is laid on with concrete troughs, one serving two paddocks. Obviously these cant be moved so the strip grazing is done spokes of a wheel in most cases.

The roadways are relatively new and were done quiet cheap, basically materials were free along with some of the machinery used. Still I have to say the system we run we would be at nothing without them. Had we paid full price I'd hand on heart say they were worth every penny. You lose land, its a massive cost and the benefits dont seem that obvious at first but especially with bulls its a no brainer really.

As for reseeding, its been done out of necessity rather than to any plan because we did have a lot of tillage before. Will be reseeding about 30 acres this year but thats mainly due to most of it being raised bottoms.

As for breeding, well the animals we'd have on the farm would be usually very plain by most standards. The buy in price effects our business a lot so we wouldnt win prizes for our stock but it suits us.

Vaccination is the basic black leg vaccine and fluke and worms when the cattle arive on farm and going to grass

All in all its a fairly standard operation. In terms of improvements, a topper is definetely on the cards.
Also an outfarm which was used for silage only is now being converted to become a grazing platform.
A quad has been discussed but was wondering, if anyone has expierence of them on a diary bull system. Have fears it would just drive the bulls mad. Also are they much safer than being on foot with some of the more dangerous bulls. Have heard the aggresive bulls would be more likely to charge a quad than a man
Would also like to incorporate a weighing scales into the crush.


Would be interested to hear from anyone who's running a strip grazing system with moveable water troughs as I'd like to set this up on the outfarm. By that I mean troughs connected to mains water supply but capable of moving up along the field staying within the front and back fence

Anyway, sorry for all that bulls*it, but better late than never

Muckit

Thanks Don't be daft for that. Very interesting and good to hear about another type of beef system.

Can you tell us more about your dairy bull beef system?

• What age are the bulls when you buy them in?
• What time of year do you buy in?
• Do you buy in batches all year round or have you a set time for buying and selling?
• Do you buy privately off dairy farmers or mart?
• Are they 'local' stock ie is it a dairy area or what made you get into it?
• Do you have an arrangement with a local meat factory? ie would you have set price/kg contract, does an agent call out to tell you when stock are fit etc etc?
• What feed do they get in the shed?
• What are your margins like per hd?

Sorry about all the questions!

blue5000

Great first post there don't be daft, thanks.

On your question of the water, leave a 3/4 inch pipe along the fence wire between 2 paddocks. Wherever you will be putting up a fence ( say every second stake) cut the pipe and put a philmac straight joiner on it. On a 70/90 gal jfc trough put about 5 yards of 3/4 inch pipe with a T piece philmac joiner on the end.

You will also need a gate valve at the beginning of the line so you can close off water when you're moving the trough. Simply open the straight joiner, take the middle piesce out and put the T piece from the trough in and join it up. Hope this helps. Only thing to watch is bulls digging the soft ground when you empty the trough when you go to move it.:o

How many bulls do you run in a bunch and are you making money at it? Used to do a similiar system in the 90's when bse hit first.

Dont be daft

Hey Muckit

In terms of buying in its a mix of everything really. Dont take calves as our cousins specialise in that side of it. We'd buy from marts, local dairy farmers and rearers. Its usually year round with a lull in the Summer.

As for why we got into it, it was simply the fact that we were priced out of the better stock and while we might buy the odd few lim it was just getting to be to much to get back into stock while trying to develope the farm.

As for the meat factory, well there not exactly queing up to take our stock. We have had words over the quality of some of the bulls and we've no set agreement with them but most of the time it runs smoothly enough.

Two different mixes in the sheds, one store, one beef. Cant remember the exact ratios cos its all written up in the loader and cant really go out and look but the beef mix is almost half concentrates.

As for margins, well we had two very bad years which nearly sank us. The farm ran into huge debt that had us all a bit worried but we're pullin out of it now. I'll say this though, without the SFP this whole system would be tits up in the morning, I've no doubt whatsoever about that.

All the developement on the farm has been done with a eye towards moving into dairy (in some part) somewere down the line but at the moment the funds just arent there to do that

Dont be daft

blue5000 wrote: »

Great first post there don't be daft, thanks.

On your question of the water, leave a 3/4 inch pipe along the fence wire between 2 paddocks. Wherever you will be putting up a fence ( say every second stake) cut the pipe and put a philmac straight joiner on it. On a 70/90 gal jfc trough put about 5 yards of 3/4 inch pipe with a T piece philmac joiner on the end.

You will also need a gate valve at the beginning of the line so you can close off water when you're moving the trough. Simply open the straight joiner, take the middle piesce out and put the T piece from the trough in and join it up. Hope this helps. Only thing to watch is bulls digging the soft ground when you empty the trough when you go to move it.:o

How many bulls do you run in a bunch and are you making money at it? Used to do a similiar system in the 90's when bse hit first.

Hey Blue

Thanks for that. Was thinking if I shut the water down at the valve the night before the move and hope by morning they'd have emptied the trough for me. Have a big problem with the fookers diggin holes. There's holes on the farm big enough to make sh*t of the jeep

Was worried it would effect their early morning grazing so if anyone has any ideas on this I'm all ears.

As for the groups, they're put out in groups of 20-25 but that will vary over the Summer as anyone with any expierence with friesan bulls will tell ya they kick the livin sh*te out of each other and pulling a lad in for pneumonia for a week usually means he wont mix back in. Usually end up with an extra group of rejects made up of the lads pulled out of main groups

As for margins, well like I said there earlier, for a while there was no margin. Now were beginning to see a small profit from them this year but I couldnt honestly say what it is per head.

poor farmer

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

reilig wrote: »

Now to how its done - as someone pointed out, there's a million ways to skin a cat! A simple and cheap reseed works as well for me as a €300 per acre reseed works in good land. I spray, I chain harrow, I lime, I cover with slurry, I chain harrow one or two more times and then I spread the grass seed mixed with the fertilizer using a wagtail spreader, spreading at a low rate of application and using a chris-cross pattern to ensure that I go over each area twice. Then I roll.
QUOTE]
Just a couple of questions relig what tyope of chain harrow is it one of the frame type's or is it just an old stlye harrow. Also why do you not put grass seed out befpre slurry I see that some farmers do this.

When useing wagtail to spread seed what speed do you go at is it very slow. I find it very hard to set wagtail to spread seed as it either spreads way too little or else it spreads just enough for one cover of land and you can get bare patches.

Yesterday i sowed a 10 acre field with my trusty MF 35 and vicon spreader
Set spreader at 21 , tractor in second gear , 1 meter between runs ,
kept going round and round ,
Used 11 1/2 bags of seed. Job took two hours.

Muckit

They say if you take just one thing away from a discussion group and put it into practice it's a good thing. I took two (.....so far;)).

Thanks to boards farm and forestry members for introducing me to these new ideas. I have put them into practice and they are working a treat