Boards Beef Discussion Group

5 star

Have a problem with my breeding bull who is 14 months he is working ok but is also sucking one cow from behind when her calf is sucking. Have not had a chance to put a ring on him yet will this solve the prob? Has anyone encountered this prob?

blue5000

bob charles wrote: »

most of the lads that were seriously at bull beef during the last 2 decades aren't at it no more. They are just a pain in the behind, is all well in good getting this super performance but then one hurt animal or one that get bullied, or does damage and the great performance of the rest of the bunch means F all. last week during the heavy rain I was thinking about the relief of still not having loads of bulls that you would be afraid of going to see as anything could be the problem. On Wednesday with all the rain I had most of the bulls we have at the moment grazing outside my front window in three lots. they spent the night roaring and shout and generally acting the maggot.

I agree, what age have you and what breed? I think with the 430 kg limit from now on there will be a few changes.

Dont be daft

bob charles wrote: »

most of the lads that were seriously at bull beef during the last 2 decades aren't at it no more. They are just a pain in the behind, is all well in good getting this super performance but then one hurt animal or one that get bullied, or does damage and the great performance of the rest of the bunch means F all. last week during the heavy rain I was thinking about the relief of still not having loads of bulls that you would be afraid of going to see as anything could be the problem. On Wednesday with all the rain I had most of the bulls we have at the moment grazing outside my front window in three lots. they spent the night roaring and shout and generally acting the maggot.

Thats before you go into the safety aspect of it. I've given the last 3 weeks flat on my back because of a wicked bastard of a friesan bull.

I'm around bulls all my life. We fattened continetal bulls for years and have always had a few bulls. Been 100% dairy bull beef for bout 4 years now so I'm in no way inexpierenced, but I got caught out.

Lots of lads got into bulls in the last few years thinkin they'd make a fortune on them and figured they were already setup for them. We've invested a massive amount of money just upgrading sheds, fields and facilities to handle a large amount of bulls.
See people around here that arent makin a penny cos of losses be it injuries, viruses or poor management.

I'd go as far to say that the man hours that go into running a 100 bull system would be the same as what would go into running 200 bullocks

poor farmer

poor farmer wrote: »

I am interested in your comments on dairy bred bulls.I have four groups of 20ish
on the one farm.Last week the broke my b...ls mixing .All the fields have good electric fencing. I was thinking of putting a couple of groups together.The fields are 10-15 acres. Two of the groups are 16-18 mths ,two others 14-15 months.
The seem to have settled again I have two runs of the fence about 6 meters apart between each group ,this has helped .

any comments/help appreciated

A week or so ago I was having major problems with bulls mixing, 90 bulls on one farm.I was relying on one strand of a fence to separate two groups in the same field, BIG MISTAKE. Now i run a second poly-wire 6 metes apart and all is calm.

previously I kept all cattle as steers but the were very slow.I am much happier with the performance of the bulls.

49801

blue5000 wrote: »

I agree, what age have you and what breed? I think with the 430 kg limit from now on there will be a few changes.

Whats this limit? Havn't heard of it?

Started feeding our bunch of 14 SA bulls a few weeks ago. They went to grass for 100day before we started to feed them. Avg 18mths. Guess they are 550-600kgLW. Have them in a 4acre paddock next to the slatted shed and they are coming/creeping indoors to feed. They are on 10kg/day at the moment being fed twice a day. Its a maize meal with 14%CP with yeast and minerals. (bought first load at 243e/ton) Been increasing the concentrate by a kg every 3days.
Aim is to have them slaughtered end of august to mid sept.

Am a bit flabergasted that they are still finishing all of their meal every morning and evening. I thought they would of started to self regulate by now:o. It will make life much more pleasant when we can dump 4/5days worth out infront of them and leave them to it.

Biggest disadvantage I see with bulls is the amount of money that has to be spent on meal. The reward will be goodish this year (home rearered) but the risk is high. If even one of them gets injured it'll be a nightmare.

Muckit

This is the kind of sh*t that you never read about in the IFJ. It's all about the big weights and the money. They should give a more rounded spin to the whole thing and tell lads about the potential hiccups.

I often question their motives and whose side they are on

bob charles

49801 wrote: »

Whats this limit? Havn't heard of it?

Started feeding our bunch of 14 SA bulls a few weeks ago. They went to grass for 100day before we started to feed them. Avg 18mths. Guess they are 550-600kgLW. Have them in a 4acre paddock next to the slatted shed and they are coming/creeping indoors to feed. They are on 10kg/day at the moment being fed twice a day. Its a maize meal with 14%CP with yeast and minerals. (bought first load at 243e/ton) Been increasing the concentrate by a kg every 3days.
Aim is to have them slaughtered end of august to mid sept.

Am a bit flabergasted that they are still finishing all of their meal every morning and evening. I thought they would of started to self regulate by now:o. It will make life much more pleasant when we can dump 4/5days worth out infront of them and leave them to it.

Biggest disadvantage I see with bulls is the amount of money that has to be spent on meal. The reward will be goodish this year (home rearered) but the risk is high. If even one of them gets injured it'll be a nightmare.

when they're up to eating 14 kilos a day they will be costing €3.40 per head each day on meal only doing say 2kilos live weight at min hopefully at 55% ko @ €4.20kg is €4.62 per day they will be gaining. Conservative/realistic/optimistic figures used by me??

bob charles

Muckit wrote: »

This is the kind of sh*t that you never read about in the IFJ. It's all about the big weights and the money. They should give a more rounded spin to the whole thing and tell lads about the potential hiccups.

I often question their motives and whose side they are on

how many papers would be sold if realistic articles were being printed in the IFJ:D

Charlie Charolais

Is the 2kg gain a bit high? I thought it was approx 12:1 meal to LW gain?

bob charles

Charlie Charolais wrote: »

Is the 2kg gain a bit high? I thought it was approx 12:1 meal to LW gain?

2kgs liveweight,I was head scratching for a minute there. These animals should be converting a good bit under 12kgs grain to 1 kgs meat. My working at saying 1.1kilos of cold meat. as I say what appears on paper doesn't seem to translate into practice when it comes to feeding cattle. IMV grains are too expensive to feed to beef animals and that the rock we will perish on

Farmer Pudsey

bob charles wrote: »

when they're up to eating 14 kilos a day they will be costing €3.40 per head each day on meal only doing say 2kilos live weight at min hopefully at 55% ko @ €4.20kg is €4.62 per day they will be gaining. Conservative/realistic/optimistic figures used by me??

This is the problem with ad-lib feeding bulls it is at best a little with break even if I had them I would have them in a paddock feeding 5-6kgs/day with the balance of there intake coming from good grass. A 2/3 barley 1/3 soyahull's would be adequate to get satifactory fat cover on them.

49801

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

This is the problem with ad-lib feeding bulls it is at best a little with break even if I had them I would have them in a paddock feeding 5-6kgs/day with the balance of there intake coming from good grass. A 2/3 barley 1/3 soyahull's would be adequate to get satifactory fat cover on them.

I do see the merits of what ye are saying.
Being able to keep them where they are (in field next to slatted shed) make feeding any every thing else very very simple and the feed is kept dry.

We've pretty much decided to castrate this years calves and go back to steers.

Is there a way of telling if they are getting too much at 10kg... corn in the pats? Decided to hold at where we are at the momet till they have the field bare or might even divide in 2 and top half it.

blue5000

49801 wrote: »

Whats this limit? Havn't heard of it?

Started feeding our bunch of 14 SA bulls a few weeks ago. They went to grass for 100day before we started to feed them. Avg 18mths. Guess they are 550-600kgLW. Have them in a 4acre paddock next to the slatted shed and they are coming/creeping indoors to feed. They are on 10kg/day at the moment being fed twice a day. Its a maize meal with 14%CP with yeast and minerals. (bought first load at 243e/ton) Been increasing the concentrate by a kg every 3days.
Aim is to have them slaughtered end of august to mid sept.

Am a bit flabergasted that they are still finishing all of their meal every morning and evening. I thought they would of started to self regulate by now:o. It will make life much more pleasant when we can dump 4/5days worth out infront of them and leave them to it.

Biggest disadvantage I see with bulls is the amount of money that has to be spent on meal. The reward will be goodish this year (home rearered) but the risk is high. If even one of them gets injured it'll be a nightmare.

Two factories near us (N Tipp) don't want the big 500 kg carcass weights anymore. I think the problem is the prime cuts of fillet are way too big for steaks and have to be sold as roasts instead. This lowers the overall value of the carcass to the factory.

leg wax

blue5000 wrote: »

Two factories near us (N Tipp) don't want the big 500 kg carcass weights anymore. I think the problem is the prime cuts of fillet are way too big for steaks and have to be sold as roasts instead. This lowers the overall value of the carcass to the factory.

pulled in the lorry on way home from the mart for grub and the pub had a 54 ounce steak on the menu for 50 euro and if you ate it all you got it for free. :eek:

Muckit

leg wax wrote: »

pulled in the lorry on way home from the mart for grub and the pub had a 54 ounce steak on the menu for 50 euro and if you ate it all you got it for free. :eek:

Adam Richman would give it a go!

manjou

Used to feed bulls up to last year and finish at 15 months old.When things went well made good money but it did not take much to upset them. Last year squeezed them and sold them in spring at 13 months old having only fed silage and no meal.When i added what i would have spent on meal i made as much money with less hassle than bulls. Was wondering could i finish the bullocks the same way and at same age as bulls as they would be easier handled .Anyone else trying this?

Dont be daft

manjou wrote: »

Used to feed bulls up to last year and finish at 15 months old.When things went well made good money but it did not take much to upset them. Last year squeezed them and sold them in spring at 13 months old having only fed silage and no meal.When i added what i would have spent on meal i made as much money with less hassle than bulls. Was wondering could i finish the bullocks the same way and at same age as bulls as they would be easier handled .Anyone else trying this?

Seriously doubt it. Depends I suppose on the quality of stock you start with, but I cant ever remember being able to build bullocks up to any sort of decent weight or confirmation within that kinda time frame.
If it was the case then anyone doing bull beef is basically wasting their time.

Would you not have put the fact that you made the same money this year with the bullocks down to mad mart prices? Couldnt count on that every year

Muckit

I never dabbled in bull beef, but I think lads that are grazing bulls must be excellent grassland managers. Once they are in a group they can't be mixed, so rules out possibilities of moving sotck about and operating a set stocking system.

They need to be kept contented and moved often, so you need to be about often to move fences. All well and good in a good year, but wouldn't like to have a field of bulls with the weather we are getting now and trying to keep them happy. Hard job I'd say.

Really think you'd need all your land in one parcel to have comfort.

Farmer Pudsey

Dont be daft wrote: »

Seriously doubt it. Depends I suppose on the quality of stock you start with, but I cant ever remember being able to build bullocks up to any sort of decent weight or confirmation within that kinda time frame.
If it was the case then anyone doing bull beef is basically wasting their time.

Would you not have put the fact that you made the same money this year with the bullocks down to mad mart prices? Couldnt count on that every year

There is no way you would finish bullocks in same timeframe as bulls. there conversion rate is totally different weanling bulls are for a wjile converting at 4or5-1 and good contenintal bulls will convert feed at 7or8-1. The only animal that can compare is a heifer at 12-20 months it seems. Bullocks convert at 10+ to1.

I have seen articles on some farmers finishing contenintals at 20 months at up on 400kgs but have never come accross one. if you take that the bullock would be 720 kgs killing at 56% he would have to be doing 1.1 kgs/day from birth.

There is no comparrison between bulls and bullocks when in a shed I have found that you will be 2/3 of a grade and 60+kgs deadweight in the difference and that is after 120 days in the shed.

pakalasa

On finishing bulls - would it not make sense to re-house bulls around July and have them finished before the start of the winter. You would be maximising the use of the slatted shed then, and not have the management issues with bulls acting up outdoors. Says he who never finished bulls..........:D

Farmer Pudsey

pakalasa wrote: »

On finishing bulls - would it not make sense to re-house bulls around July and have them finished before the start of the winter. You would be maximising the use of the slatted shed then, and not have the management issues with bulls acting up outdoors. Says he who never finished bulls..........:D

The cost of any animal going indoors goes from an euro- maybe 3 euro's. I try to keep bulls outside that I finish during the summer. I feed 5-6 kgs ration and good grass I cost this at about 1.75 cent per day I think that theydo nearly as good as inside. Bulls inside will eat either 8-10 kgs silage or 14+ kgs of ration total cost more than 3.5/day so it is twice as expensive.
With bulls you are targeting certain times of year when prices are high you do not want to be competing with cheap bullocks in the autaum or with the dairy men who finish cattle in Feb/march.
This year will be different I cannot see any glut of cattle in the fall while there may be some early butty cattle I cannot see the Kill hitting much with30,000/ week and I personally doubt if they will hit that for any long period

1chippy

I will have 30 bull weanlings this winter that i was going to try on a straw bedded pen. They will be a mixed bag ranging from good quality stores to bucket reared calves (6) . All should be in or around300kg mark. What would be the best system. to go with. Will be holding them around the summer and hope to have ready as early as possible. majority will be march April calves. This will be a first try away from just suckling so bear with me.
What is the best method to go with?

just do it

1chippy wrote: »

I will have 30 bull weanlings this winter that i was going to try on a straw bedded pen. They will be a mixed bag ranging from good quality stores to bucket reared calves (6) . All should be in or around300kg mark. What would be the best system. to go with. Will be holding them around the summer and hope to have ready as early as possible. majority will be march April calves. This will be a first try away from just suckling so bear with me.

Best of luck chippy, I hope it goes well for you:)

Farmer Pudsey

1chippy wrote: »

I will have 30 bull weanlings this winter that i was going to try on a straw bedded pen. They will be a mixed bag ranging from good quality stores to bucket reared calves (6) . All should be in or around300kg mark. What would be the best system. to go with. Will be holding them around the summer and hope to have ready as early as possible. majority will be march April calves. This will be a first try away from just suckling so bear with me.
What is the best method to go with?

I would be very slow to finish over the winter you are looking at a 200 day finishing period at a cost of around an average of 2.25/day on this weight of bulls. The bucket fed bulls will be lucky to average much with a kg/day. Straw will cost a fortune as it will get wet and dirty from the level of feed. The very best of bucket fed bulls are lucky to average 250kg K/O and these are jan/feb calves. Personally I think that bucketfed calves need to be near 2yearolds before finishing as bulls.

I would carry over the winter on a diet of good silage and1-2kgs of ration trying to gain 0.5-0.6 kgs/day then back out to grass.The good suckler bulls you could feed 2kgs form april-early june then 5 kgs to finish in late August. The bucket fed are a different matter 2 kgs from late june until october 1st then house and kill before Christmass a lot of work but the only way to make a profit on them as bulls in my opinion.

Also unless Egypt, Iran and Libya open for cattle this fall and into next year the Irish kill will be 30,000 all next year and nearly 40,000 in the fall of 2013 unlucky for some No13.

The opening of the live export to North Africa is necessary from September on this year in my opinion to take the possible glut of cattle away from next year, will it happen

reilig

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

The opening of the live export to North Africa is necessary from September on this year in my opinion to take the possible glut of cattle away from next year, will it happen

You can be sure that Larry and the boys will be doing their best to make sure that it doesn't happen in order to keep prices low for themselves.

bogman_bass

Muckit wrote: »

Adam Richman would give it a go!

Thanks an million Muckit! I ended up watching 2 hours of man v food clips on youtube last night when I should have been sleeping!:rolleyes:

moy83

bogman_bass wrote: »

Thanks an million Muckit! I ended up watching 2 hours of man v food clips on youtube last night when I should have been sleeping!:rolleyes:

Ive started training in case a job like his crops up in RTE anytime soon .

leg wax

moy83 wrote: »

Ive started training in case a job like his crops up in RTE anytime soon .

join the que behind legs

1chippy

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

I would be very slow to finish over the winter you are looking at a 200 day finishing period at a cost of around an average of 2.25/day on this weight of bulls. The bucket fed bulls will be lucky to average much with a kg/day. Straw will cost a fortune as it will get wet and dirty from the level of feed. The very best of bucket fed bulls are lucky to average 250kg K/O and these are jan/feb calves. Personally I think that bucketfed calves need to be near 2yearolds before finishing as bulls.

I would carry over the winter on a diet of good silage and1-2kgs of ration trying to gain 0.5-0.6 kgs/day then back out to grass.The good suckler bulls you could feed 2kgs form april-early june then 5 kgs to finish in late August. The bucket fed are a different matter 2 kgs from late june until october 1st then house and kill before Christmass a lot of work but the only way to make a profit on them as bulls in my opinion.

Also unless Egypt, Iran and Libya open for cattle this fall and into next year the Irish kill will be 30,000 all next year and nearly 40,000 in the fall of 2013 unlucky for some No13.

The opening of the live export to North Africa is necessary from September on this year in my opinion to take the possible glut of cattle away from next year, will it happen

what would the option on bullocks be like. cheers for the help

moy83

leg wax wrote: »

join the que behind legs

How did you fare out with that 54 ounce steak the other day ?
I ate six double cheeseburgers without taking a drink in mcdonalds a few years ago