Boards Beef Discussion Group

Dont be daft

Muckit wrote: »

They say if you take just one thing away from a discussion group and put it into practice it's a good thing. I took two (.....so far;)).

Thanks to boards farm and forestry members for introducing me to these new ideas. I have put them into practice and they are working a treat

Nice stock Muckit. Lots of grass to, I'm skint still.
Proper Gallagher reel aswell, their the only job. Do ya mind me askin ya were you got it?

In relation to the drinker, how did ya seal the hole were the water comes in?

Muckit

Dont be daft wrote: »

Nice stock Muckit. Lots of grass to, I'm skint still.
Proper Gallagher reel aswell, their the only job. Do ya mind me askin ya were you got it?

In relation to the drinker, how did ya seal the hole were the water comes in?

Thanks lad. That ground was newly reseeded ground Autumn 2010.
Permanent fencing was only done this spring. I did it all myself which kept costs down, but what with doing bits as I got time, the grass got ahead of me I'm giving it to them now in small sections to avoid them wasting it.

Now the reel. I never used or had a reel before, but I said if I was going to get one I'd get a right one. I bought it in a local farm hardware. €50 loops. Pricey.... but looking at ones half the price there was no competition. I was so impressed with the ifrst one, I bought another (cost me €55 though) The only thing is that you could have a lad looking in over the ditch taking a fancy to them :rolleyes:

As for water 'trough'...all is revealed in this tread .....
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055596057&page=8

Muckit

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faY97zPdSzQ&feature=related

Found this video a while back and enquired about locating similar joiners here in Ireland, but no joy:(

just do it

Muckit wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faY97zPdSzQ&feature=related

Found this video a while back and enquired about locating similar joiners here in Ireland, but no joy:(

Looks like an expensive set-up!

I'm looking at a system for the silage fields where I'll have a permanent pipe along the boundary with philmac T joints shut off with a blank. Come along with a JFC DT30 tank, remove the blank and screw in the pipe connected to the tank and away you go. No need to shut off water supply as you only lose a little bit while switching the connection and it's easy switch despite the water is still flowing.

island of tighe

just do it wrote: »

Looks like an expensive set-up!

I'm looking at a system for the silage fields where I'll have a permanent pipe along the boundary with philmac T joints shut off with a blank. Come along with a JFC DT30 tank, remove the blank and screw in the pipe connected to the tank and away you go. No need to shut off water supply as you only lose a little bit while switching the connection and it's easy switch despite the water is still flowing.

you must have low water pressure if i tried that here id be trenched every time

Muckit

just do it wrote: »

Looks like an expensive set-up!

I'm looking at a system for the silage fields where I'll have a permanent pipe along the boundary with philmac T joints shut off with a blank. Come along with a JFC DT30 tank, remove the blank and screw in the pipe connected to the tank and away you go. No need to shut off water supply as you only lose a little bit while switching the connection and it's easy switch despite the water is still flowing.

You must have very low pressure to be able to shove fittings together without shutting off water . Is it 3/4" or 1/2" hydrodare? Are you going using the old or the new philmac fittings?

Muckit

island of tighe wrote: »

you must have low water pressure

snap

blue5000

Dont be daft wrote: »

Hey Blue

Thanks for that. Was thinking if I shut the water down at the valve the night before the move and hope by morning they'd have emptied the trough for me. Have a big problem with the fookers diggin holes. There's holes on the farm big enough to make sh*t of the jeep

Was worried it would effect their early morning grazing so if anyone has any ideas on this I'm all ears.

As for the groups, they're put out in groups of 20-25 but that will vary over the Summer as anyone with any expierence with friesan bulls will tell ya they kick the livin sh*te out of each other and pulling a lad in for pneumonia for a week usually means he wont mix back in. Usually end up with an extra group of rejects made up of the lads pulled out of main groups

As for margins, well like I said there earlier, for a while there was no margin. Now were beginning to see a small profit from them this year but I couldnt honestly say what it is per head.

Maybe turn the water off in the morning and move them in the afternoon. Some of the dairy farmers only give fresh grass in the afternoons because they eat more then and with the higher grass sugar levels you get more energy into them than if they filled themselves up with cold wettish grass in the mornings.

When we were doing fr bulls at grass it was the corners that they dug up. We found if you moved them every day it wasn't so bad. It was a bit like having a builder in for a few hours every sat, he'd get feck all done, but if he was there for a solid week he'd get a lot more (digging in your case) done.:D I suppose one way to sort it is a loader bucket of topsoil, shake grass seed on it and close the paddock up for a cut of silage.

Lameness was another problem too, used to walk them over a mat soaked in foot bath (formalin/zinc?) when we moved them to a fresh pen of grass. Never had any bother with pneumonia, but once you take a bull out of a group he can't go back in. Another trick we learned was to put one cull cow in with them, made it very easy to move them, just nudge the cow out first and all the bulls followed her, bitch was always in calf too:pac:

poor farmer

I am interested in your comments on dairy bred bulls.I have four groups of 20ish
on the one farm.Last week the broke my b...ls mixing .All the fields have good electric fencing. I was thinking of putting a couple of groups together.The fields are 10-15 acres. Two of the groups are 16-18 mths ,two others 14-15 months.
The seem to have settled again I have two runs of the fence about 6 meters apart between each group ,this has helped .

any comments/help appreciated

blue5000

For a 10-15 acre field you could put the water trough in the middle of the field and run temporary fences from the trough out to the edge of the field like as don't be daft has said.

It looks a bit like spokes of a wheel. You use 3 fences with 2 tri-angle shaped grazing areas, one set up in front of them, and one set up where they are grazing.

Put the reels in the middle of the field at the trough so when the cattle move you just swop the middle fence over to the other side of the trough. The middle fence now becomes the back fence. You take down what was the back fence and set it up in front of them ready for the next move.

If grass gets too strong you bale and wrap a corner of the field, fence the bales off in the corner and you have it there for the autumn, keeps them out for maybe a fortnight longer.

It sounds complicated I know, but the big advantage is that the field is growing grass for about 80% of the time and is being grazed only 20% of the time. I find one permanent strand up the middle of the field across the trough makes it easier, you have stakes either side of the trough to hang the reels on.

Hope this helps, any questions just fire away

Muckit

when lads are using reels and moving strip wires, what's the procedure? A lad could do alot of walking...:rolleyes: What I'm getting at is do you put the stakes down first and then come with the reel? Would be great to do all at once

just do it

island of tighe wrote: »

you must have low water pressure if i tried that here id be trenched every time

Sounds like it! It's half inch NG hydrdare and once I keep the join pointed away from me I don't get a drop. New type philmac fittings but rather than pushing the pipe in and tightening I put the red insert and screw on the pipe and push this into the fitting (if that makes sense). I'll get a few photos up on the photo thread the next time I'm doing it.

Muckit

just do it wrote: »

Sounds like it! It's half inch NG hydrdare and once I keep the join pointed away from me I don't get a drop. New type philmac fittings but rather than pushing the pipe in and tightening I put the red insert and screw on the pipe and push this into the fitting (if that makes sense). I'll get a few photos up on the photo thread the next time I'm doing it.

If you had good pressure you wouldn't be able to push the pipe into the fitting and tighten the nut.

You want to make sure you don't lose the rubber ring inside in the new fitting :rolleyes: On the old fittings they stayed on the insert.

Dont be daft

blue5000 wrote: »

Maybe turn the water off in the morning and move them in the afternoon. Some of the dairy farmers only give fresh grass in the afternoons because they eat more then and with the higher grass sugar levels you get more energy into them than if they filled themselves up with cold wettish grass in the mornings.

When we were doing fr bulls at grass it was the corners that they dug up. We found if you moved them every day it wasn't so bad. It was a bit like having a builder in for a few hours every sat, he'd get feck all done, but if he was there for a solid week he'd get a lot more (digging in your case) done.:D I suppose one way to sort it is a loader bucket of topsoil, shake grass seed on it and close the paddock up for a cut of silage.

Lameness was another problem too, used to walk them over a mat soaked in foot bath (formalin/zinc?) when we moved them to a fresh pen of grass. Never had any bother with pneumonia, but once you take a bull out of a group he can't go back in. Another trick we learned was to put one cull cow in with them, made it very easy to move them, just nudge the cow out first and all the bulls followed her, bitch was always in calf too:pac:

Thanks for that, was always wondering when the best time to move 'em was.

With regards to holes we have little minidigger on backfill duty then we set up a gammy lookin fence around the hole. Like you said there nearly always in the corners so we can put it straight onto the current. The strip wires get moved everyday but the ****ers still love diggin the sh*te out of the place

We had two footbaths put in after the years of constant lameness and if the bulls are in the crush area for what ever reason they get run through 'em. After a few years I copped what was makin them lame.
Whether mixed or not they do the odd bit of riding and when they come down off a lad they nip his back feet with their front feet. Small cut then gets infected and becomes a big problem.

Now we look at their feet as we're checkin them, if we see a cut we either make a note of it if its only small or pull the bull in and spray it with alamycin, maybe a shot of bimoxy if its bad. This is why the roadways are so vital. I could spot a bull with a cut, have him washed down, sprayed, injected and back into the group in 30mins.

The cull cow idea is genious. Never thought of that

Dont be daft

poor farmer wrote: »

I am interested in your comments on dairy bred bulls.I have four groups of 20ish
on the one farm.Last week the broke my b...ls mixing .All the fields have good electric fencing. I was thinking of putting a couple of groups together.The fields are 10-15 acres. Two of the groups are 16-18 mths ,two others 14-15 months.
The seem to have settled again I have two runs of the fence about 6 meters apart between each group ,this has helped .

any comments/help appreciated

The only way to run bulls without them mixing is to keep a paddock between them. 6 meters is better than having them beside each other but unless its steel wire on wooden stakes they're probably gonna mix again.
I've seen a bull go through 3 strands of that polywire down to another group. I put him back in with his own group and within 5 mins he went through the same 3 sets of wire again. It was cracking off his back every time but he didnt giv a flyin f*ck. Put him in behind a strand of HT wire and he stayed put.


We have two groups of 35 on a rented farm so big groups can work. But thats only because we weren't gonna dish out the money to fence it into small fields.
There not ideal though and I'd avoid it.
We always have a few that turn nasty when they come of age. Easy to pick them out and keep them in the corner of your eye when he's 1 among 20, a lot harder if he was 1 among 40.
I find them harded to check in bigger groups and theres usually a lot more fighting and riding within the group.

Little trick we did was to tag one group with a single small tag. That way if they mix it'll be easier to seperate them.

5 star

just do it wrote: »

What was the bil you used last year?

Your young bull's figures are likely to change alright. I can't say I know all the data ICBF use but kill out weights are definitely one if them for beef carcase.

Used Saler bull LZR no prob calving. Calves were very small when born but started to swell after about six weeks fine square calves now.

pakalasa

Dont be daft wrote: »

....We're running a Dairy Bull Beef system finishing between 19 and 22 months depending on the animal.

So would you kill them in January typically? What kind of weights would they be? When would you re-house them in the second year? I've heard that bulls really fall away when the grass starts to get poor.

PatQfarmer

blue5000 wrote: »

Great first post there don't be daft, thanks.

On your question of the water, leave a 3/4 inch pipe along the fence wire between 2 paddocks. Wherever you will be putting up a fence ( say every second stake) cut the pipe and put a philmac straight joiner on it. On a 70/90 gal jfc trough put about 5 yards of 3/4 inch pipe with a T piece philmac joiner on the end.

You will also need a gate valve at the beginning of the line so you can close off water when you're moving the trough. Simply open the straight joiner, take the middle piesce out and put the T piece from the trough in and join it up. Hope this helps. Only thing to watch is bulls digging the soft ground when you empty the trough when you go to move it.:o

How many bulls do you run in a bunch and are you making money at it? Used to do a similiar system in the 90's when bse hit first.

Great idea to put the T on the tank! Saves all the blanks:) why didn't I think of that? Simple is always best. Thanks.

Farmer Pudsey

pakalasa wrote: »

So would you kill them in January typically? What kind of weights would they be? When would you re-house them in the second year? I've heard that bulls really fall away when the grass starts to get poor.

Feed 2kg's at grass from late july house 1st October will be ready after christmass or the better ones before. Trick is to keep them soft before housing depends onhow good they are coming out of house and what breed freisians,holsteins, hex,lmx and angus dairy bread all kill different.

Dont be daft

pakalasa wrote: »

So would you kill them in January typically? What kind of weights would they be? When would you re-house them in the second year? I've heard that bulls really fall away when the grass starts to get poor.

Exactly as Pudsey put it. Start feeding meal from July on. Some would be finished off the grass and some would be housed Octoberish then killed from the shed.
With our set up there's such a variation even within the Friesans that it really is different for every animal. Their housed according to weight so the pens would be coming fit at roughly the same time. After that its just a case of pulling them out. Would be killing from September through till Febuary believe or not.

just do it

PatQfarmer wrote: »

Great idea to put the T on the tank! Saves all the blanks:) why didn't I think of that? Simple is always best. Thanks.

+1. Thanks blue. I haven't laid the line around the silage fields yet so you've saved me a few bob. ~10 joiners & 1 T is alot cheaper than 10 T's and blanks!

just do it

I few people were looking for this. I downloaded it a few years ago but have shy'd away from filling it in as I know the result won't be good. I plan to do it this year though, and probably do it for 2010, 2011 & 2012 while I'm at it.

P.S. If anyone has done up an excel version of this would you mind posting it up here. It will save me the bother of doing it in a few months time:cool:

cathalmac

Fair play to all the lads that posted on bull beef finishing.

I'm just going on previous personal experience from a few years back but I nearly always found it hard enough to get a good enough kill out on the dairy bull to ensure that I covered costs. Will the recent increases in the prices of concentrate have a serious effect on your margins for the coming year? Do you still feel it will be profitable?

blue5000

cathalmac wrote: »

Fair play to all the lads that posted on bull beef finishing.

I'm just going on previous personal experience from a few years back but I nearly always found it hard enough to get a good enough kill out on the dairy bull to ensure that I covered costs. Will the recent increases in the prices of concentrate have a serious effect on your margins for the coming year? Do you still feel it will be profitable?

I think the factories are going to have to accept that it is pointless putting a ton of meal into these animals just to get a few mm of fat on them. Most of the meat goes for manufacturing (burgers pies mince etc.) Realistically the only way to make any money off these is to kill them off grass at about 550kg LW regardless of the fat grade. Maybe I'm wrong, perhaps the steak cuts are better with meal?

What's a good topic for next week? Silage: quantity vs quality?

Muckit

blue5000 wrote: »

What's a good topic for next week? Silage: quantity vs quality?

Or silage vs the weather :rolleyes:

1chippy

Got a letter from the btap discussion group to say that i am ineligable.I have been to the first couple of meetings and no problem. My parents use a teagasc advisor to fill out all subs and grant forms. I didnt help out a few years back as thought it was intruding on their income, however when i enquired about being ineligable i was informed by the department that the weaning weights were never filled for 2010 so this is what makes us ineligable.
Has anyone any info or help.
I tried contacting the teagasc advisor 12 times last week and still waiting on a reply. I will be apealing the case. how do i go about it? Whats the possability of claiming the suckler cow welfare for 2010, or is it a lost cause. Any help would be great.

bob charles

blue5000 wrote: »

I think the factories are going to have to accept that it is pointless putting a ton of meal into these animals just to get a few mm of fat on them. Most of the meat goes for manufacturing (burgers pies mince etc.) Realistically the only way to make any money off these is to kill them off grass at about 550kg LW regardless of the fat grade. Maybe I'm wrong, perhaps the steak cuts are better with meal?

What's a good topic for next week? Silage: quantity vs quality?

most of the lads that were seriously at bull beef during the last 2 decades aren't at it no more. They are just a pain in the behind, is all well in good getting this super performance but then one hurt animal or one that get bullied, or does damage and the great performance of the rest of the bunch means F all. last week during the heavy rain I was thinking about the relief of still not having loads of bulls that you would be afraid of going to see as anything could be the problem. On Wednesday with all the rain I had most of the bulls we have at the moment grazing outside my front window in three lots. they spent the night roaring and shout and generally acting the maggot.

KCTK

bob charles wrote: »

most of the lads that were seriously at bull beef during the last 2 decades aren't at it no more. They are just a pain in the behind, is all well in good getting this super performance but then one hurt animal or one that get bullied, or does damage and the great performance of the rest of the bunch means F all. last week during the heavy rain I was thinking about the relief of still not having loads of bulls that you would be afraid of going to see as anything could be the problem. On Wednesday with all the rain I had most of the bulls we have at the moment grazing outside my front window in three lots. they spent the night roaring and shout and generally acting the maggot.

Totally agree, we used be at bull beef and it is simply the biggest pain in the @rse ever, from bulls getting injured to field being absoultey wrecked when you get a bit of bad weather, used not be too bad fattening them in houses but that was with rows of electric fence wire a few feet over their heads to stop them jumping on each other and loads of meals to keep them too full to think about fighting!!!

5 star

1chippy wrote: »

Got a letter from the btap discussion group to say that i am ineligable.I have been to the first couple of meetings and no problem. My parents use a teagasc advisor to fill out all subs and grant forms. I didnt help out a few years back as thought it was intruding on their income, however when i enquired about being ineligable i was informed by the department that the weaning weights were never filled for 2010 so this is what makes us ineligable.
Has anyone any info or help.
I tried contacting the teagasc advisor 12 times last week and still waiting on a reply. I will be apealing the case. how do i go about it? Whats the possability of claiming the suckler cow welfare for 2010, or is it a lost cause. Any help would be great.

Got d same letter I only applied for scws this year as did not have cows before this year also fell between two stools in that I kept all d cattle for slaughter until after Xmas leaving me only slaughtering 13 n 2011. I had to appeal n writing stating my case. I got n contact with teagasc adviser and he said that I could still attend the meetings and if my appeal is rejected I can apply again next year which will b based on 2012 slaughter figures. Don't know anything bout scws though I'd say ur best bet is to appeal with a sob story for 2010 and see how u go

5 star

bob Charles wrote:

most of the lads that were seriously at bull beef during the last 2 decades aren't at it no more. They are just a pain in the behind, is all well in good getting this super performance but then one hurt animal or one that get bullied, or does damage and the great performance of the rest of the bunch means F all. last week during the heavy rain I was thinking about the relief of still not having loads of bulls that you would be afraid of going to see as anything could be the problem. On Wednesday with all the rain I had most of the bulls we have at the moment grazing outside my front window in three lots. they spent the night roaring and shout and generally acting the maggot.

I have 12 bulls this year n one group which u would imagine should b easy to manage with d small number. On Thursday with d heavy rain two angus bulls started fighting and stayed at it for nearly 2 hours. After about 45 mins I decided I should do something to prevent injury so I moved them all into a new paddock thinking that they would put d heads down. They did for about 5 mins and then started fighting again and pushed each other throughout 2 strands of wire. Along with this both paddocks are red. Never again anything that's not fit to be finished out of d shed at 16 months next year will be squeezed and I think I'll b buying heifers from here on.