Boards Beef Discussion Group

hugo29

reilig wrote: »

yea, we have had 2 meetings in 2013. Another one coming up before mid april.

really jayus our fella is usless, mind you have always felt that

what is the current topic on the thread

reilig

hugo29 wrote: »

what is the current topic on the thread

I don't know.

But if you start a topic that you are interested in, it will be discussed

moy83

reilig wrote: »

I don't know.

But if you start a topic that you are interested in, it will be discussed

What about the best/cheapest feed for cows and weanlins if it all has to be bought ?
If we have to buy much more I think it will be hay to keep their bellies full and warm and nuts to give them some proper feeding . What would be the best value nut or mix to give them ?

Toplink

reilig wrote: »

He can do it on ICBF.ie

Fair play for the quick response.

just do it

From the journal some lad went with straw and concentrates alone. Can't say I recall any further details.

freedominacup

moy83 wrote: »

What about the best/cheapest feed for cows and weanlins if it all has to be bought ?
If we have to buy much more I think it will be hay to keep their bellies full and warm and nuts to give them some proper feeding . What would be the best value nut or mix to give them ?

3 or 4 to 1 barley to soya. Add your own mins.

moy83

Im clueless about what else to mix with it , what would be the norm ? What kind of money would the barley / soya mix be ?

Farmer Pudsey

freedominacup wrote: »

3 or 4 to 1 barley to soya. Add your own mins.

Barley has been over priced all this winter. Also because silage is short a fibre source should be includer. Soya bean meal is coming down ib price and is again a compeditive protein source.

moy83 wrote: »

What about the best/cheapest feed for cows and weanlins if it all has to be bought ?
If we have to buy much more I think it will be hay to keep their bellies full and warm and nuts to give them some proper feeding . What would be the best value nut or mix to give them ?

Maize/Soya hulls/Soya if out on grass, if inside ans there is some silage or straw in the diet then you can change the soya hulls for beet or citrus pulp if they are compeditive.

Also wheat feed (pollard) was compeditive earlier in the year(250/ton) you could include this be carefull handling as it will give you dermitis (pollard itch).

Remember most mills will only mix 3-4 ton minimum however if pay upfrond at present or on delivery they will take the hand off you.

If going above 40% maize you can include some wheat a bit of oomph

reilig

moy83 wrote: »

What about the best/cheapest feed for cows and weanlins if it all has to be bought ?
If we have to buy much more I think it will be hay to keep their bellies full and warm and nuts to give them some proper feeding . What would be the best value nut or mix to give them ?

Here's the Teagasc take on it

http://www.teagasc.ie/publications/2013/1898/Filling_the_Gap_to_Grass_DRYSTOCK.pdf

Dampintheattic

severeoversteer wrote: »

does anybody have proof that cattle thrive better indoors on a straw bed or rubber mats as opposed to on concrete slats?
i buy in weanlings and finish at 20- 25 months and i have yet to see animals gaining more than 0.5 kg per day indoors on slats. i'm feeding them to their appetite and calculating diet requirements based on weight age , finishing weight breed etc. i weigh regularly about every 2 months and have good continental stores. no problems with lameness also.

it mightnt pay to change housing to include straw bed area but im keen to know anyones experiences.

housing period is so long that i would like to keep them moving if you know what i mean

I over winter weanlings on slats with a lie back area which is used for calve creep pen when cows calves.
I leave creep gate open when weanlings are on the slats. No straw in the lie back. Weanlings ALWAYS lie in the solid concrete. Bit of dung builds up, but stays fairly solid as water flows with the fall towards the slatted tank. They do most of their sheeting in the slats when they are eating at the barrier.
Weanlings sold last month.
I have four cows now in the same pen. Same story. Eat at the barrier. Lie down on the lie back area.
Only use straw for sucks as they are born.

What all that means for thrive or weight gain I can't measure, but I reckon cattle are telling me, that they don't really like slats!!!

Marooned75

Think it has to do with drafts that come in under the slats from agitation points,try covering agitation points and see does that make a difference to cows and weanlings on slats.

moy83

reilig wrote: »

Here's the Teagasc take on it

http://www.teagasc.ie/publications/2013/1898/Filling_the_Gap_to_Grass_DRYSTOCK.pdf

Would anyone have their cows on rations that are that tight already ? Maybe I'm wrong but the forage amounts seemed fierce small , our ladies might survive on 3/4 kg hay but they would let you know about it

Toplink

reilig wrote: »

He can do it on ICBF.ie

Sorry to bother your reilig, but I cant see the Profit Monitor anywhere in the icbf.ie website?

reilig

Log in to it and you will see the e profit monitor link. Just click on it and you have it.

Toplink wrote: »

Sorry to bother your reilig, but I cant see the Profit Monitor anywhere in the icbf.ie website?

Muckit

moy83 wrote: »

Maybe I'm wrong but the forage amounts seemed fierce small , our ladies might survive on 3/4 kg hay but they would let you know about it

I haven't read the teagasc publication, but it's very easy to get mislead with figures. Perhaps this is where the confusion lies, perhaps it's not?

7kg, say for example, of silage DRY MATTER, which would be ideally what a precalving cow should be getting if no fodder shortage, would equate to 35kg FRESH WEIGHT or ACTUAL WEIGHT @20% dry matter.

Big difference between 7kg and 35kg!! Publications may give dry matter figures, because different silages can have very different dry matter %, so that would effect their actual weight.

Put simply, you would need to be feeding MORE kg FRESH weight of a lower dry matter% silage to meet the cows requirements.

hugo29

Muckit wrote: »

I haven't read the teagasc publication, but it's very easy to get mislead with figures. Perhaps this is where the confusion lies, perhaps it's not?

7kg, say for example, of silage DRY MATTER, which would be ideally what a precalving cow should be getting if no fodder shortage, would equate to 35kg FRESH WEIGHT or ACTUAL WEIGHT @20% dry matter.

Big difference between 7kg and 35kg!! Publications may give dry matter figures, because different silages can have very different dry matter %, so that would effect their actual weight.

Put simply, you would need to be feeding MORE kg FRESH weight of a lower dry matter% silage to meet the cows requirements.

lads could anyone tell me how you gauge what weight of silage a cow is getting

Muckit

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMd7TKH6620

Toplink

How many suckler cows should a 130 acre farm be able to handle? Very dry but average grazing land in the south of Galway. 90 acres around the house with good sheds. 40 acres about 6 miles away with no sheds. The plan would be to have cows calving down in November, December. The weanlings would be sold the following autumn.

Its currently running on a part-time basis with 25 cows. Keeping the cattle till 22 months or so. They are wintered on the 40 acre patch away from the main farm. Not the most efficient way of doing things but I am not in control of things!. However the plan is to make this a full time venture in about 5/6 years time so planning ahead.

bogman_bass

Are you going to sell as weanlings or carry them on?

Are you going to rear your own replacements?

Toplink

bogman_bass wrote: »

Are you going to sell as weanlings or carry them on?

Are you going to rear your own replacements?

Yes (sold as Weanlings) and Yes (thats the plan anyway).

Farmer Pudsey

Toplink if ran well a minimum of 70 and pushing towards 100. If you have dry land it is over half the battle. What sort of sheds/slurry set up on home farm. Can these be utilised to house cows for winter. Can you use outer block for summer grazing and cut silage near housing.

To push towards the 100 you woud need tp reseed starting with silage ground. However if dairying expands a calf to store/beef may be more profitable in the longterm. Remember also profitability is not all about numbers

Toplink

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Toplink if ran well a minimum of 70 and pushing towards 100. If you have dry land it is over half the battle. What sort of sheds/slurry set up on home farm. Can these be utilised to house cows for winter. Can you use outer block for summer grazing and cut silage near housing.

To push towards the 100 you woud need tp reseed starting with silage ground. However if dairying expands a calf to store/beef may be more profitable in the longterm. Remember also profitability is not all about numbers

4 Bay slatted shed and a 30 pen cubicle house. The cubicle house has an automatic scrapper that moves all the dung/effluent into an adjacent tank.

To be honest, there is no real paddock system in place and there also needs to be an investment in watering facilities. I take your point on reseeding and your right.

Outer block can be used for summer grazing alright. Its perfect for it apart from a red water threat but you can plan for that.

You say... "However if dairying expands a calf to store/beef may be more profitable in the longterm." I don't get you here... Bear in mind I have been working in Dublin for the past 10 years and have only recently taken a job around home again so I wouldn't be the most up-to date on farming practices.

Farmer Pudsey

Toplink wrote: »

4 Bay slatted shed and a 30 pen cubicle house. The cubicle house has an automatic scrapper that moves all the dung/effluent into an adjacent tank.

To be honest, there is no real paddock system in place and there also needs to be an investment in watering facilities. I take your point on reseeding and your right.

Outer block can be used for summer grazing alright. Its perfect for it apart from a red water threat but you can plan for that.

You say... "However if dairying expands a calf to store/beef may be more profitable in the longterm." I don't get you here... Bear in mind I have been working in Dublin for the past 10 years and have only recently taken a job around home again so I wouldn't be the most up-to date on farming practices.

In 2015 quota for milk production cease. At present dairy farmers are putting expansion plans in place andsome large beef farms are converting over to milk. Most of these are breeding to friesians. After 2015 as the need for replacement heifers cease these farmers will change to beef bulls. Also some dairy farmers that have beef operations will change over completely to milk This will in the long run provide an adequate maybe cheap supply of calves to beef farms in Ireland.

This is my opinion others will differ. However bear in mind that you will need your calves to average over 700 euro to have any sort of decent profit from sucklers. I know more than one suckler farmer that is hedging his bets and not expanding his suckler herd but rather putting a calf to beef operation in place.

Also it is possible to work and rear calves a big suckler cow operation will require you to be there fulltime

Toplink

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

After 2015 as the need for replacement heifers cease these farmers will change to beef bulls. Also some dairy farmers that have beef operations will change over completely to milk This will in the long run provide an adequate maybe cheap supply of calves

Ok...

I understand the open market thats coming down the line in dairying.... to make me understand this a bit further (and thanks for your patience!)...

who would I be buying the calves from and who would I be selling my beef to? what age would the beef be when id be selling it on?

epfff

Jesus toplink if your at that level I think you have a lot to learn before you consider putting on wellies
you would be buying calfs from dairy farmer raring them on powder milk then killing them in factory at somewhere between 16 and 36 months depending on your system
I do fr bulls at min high inputs killing at 18-22 month's squze the worst thrivers and leave them in out farm On grass alone and try to kill out @f shed at 3yr olds

Toplink

epfff wrote: »

Jesus toplink if your at that level I think you have a lot to learn before you consider putting on wellies
you would be buying calfs from dairy farmer raring them on powder milk then killing them in factory at somewhere between 16 and 36 months depending on your system
I do fr bulls at min high inputs killing at 18-22 month's squze the worst thrivers and leave them in out farm On grass alone and try to kill out @f shed at 3yr olds

Arah... I was 90% sure this was the case but didnt want to make any uninformed assumptions!

Toplink

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Toplink if ran well a minimum of 70 and pushing towards 100. If you have dry land it is over half the battle. What sort of sheds/slurry set up on home farm. Can these be utilised to house cows for winter. Can you use outer block for summer grazing and cut silage near housing.

To push towards the 100 you woud need tp reseed starting with silage ground. However if dairying expands a calf to store/beef may be more profitable in the longterm. Remember also profitability is not all about numbers

Thanks for your input on this.

What sort of profit per cow would be an average in the current climate? As in the price you get on sale day minus all expenses.

1chippy

Toplink wrote: »

Thanks for your input on this.

What sort of profit per cow would be an average in the current climate? As in the price you get on sale day minus all expenses.

The vast majority of suckler lads are just about breaking even. A good setup will leave arond 4-500 per hectare but i have seen one lad pulling in 1800 gross per hectare. This lad was a bit of a one off though.

Farmer Pudsey

Toplink wrote: »

Thanks for your input on this.

What sort of profit per cow would be an average in the current climate? As in the price you get on sale day minus all expenses.

one lad I know cann keep cows for 350/head/year. Calves have averaged above 700 for last few years however will not average that this year he is stocked at about 1.6/HA so you an average at that. He is not allowing for fixed costs as he look at it in the longterm. An accountant will depreciate a shed over 8 years however he says most new sheds will average 40 minimum with little maintenance. A 4 bay shed with run back costing 30K is only costing 750/year in real terms. It should keep 50+ cows. so 15/cow/year.

However some farmers want to add oppertunity costs etc

Toplink

So I have decided I am gonna add a few of my own cows to the fathers suckler herd. Its the only way I can start gently introduce myself to the farm over the next few years.

I have a few pound set aside and I was thinking of buying 5 heifers in January and putting them in calf in February. Ideally I'd like them calving down in the Oct/Nov period.

What is the ideal age to put heifers in calf?

The fathers herd is primarily limousin but I am open to other breeds. I intend on using AI for breeding as opposed to our bull anyway.

If ye could start out ye're herd again what breed would ye go for? I intend on selling weanlings in the harvest at 10 month's or so and possibly keeping the heifers.