Households must pay for water meters.

Biggins

Joko wrote: »

That bill would have put the handbrakes on any economic growth. If want to pay more bull**** carbon tax and PSO levies on energy bills, go ahead and campaign for its introduction.

Yea, thats the spin they put on it.
Like I trust their PR spun words!

the bolt

could be a few nixxers going,bypassing meters.not very hard to do .:D

Bullseye1

Water is not free. This is pure propaganda spouted by LAs and government. People who pay tax do not get water for free.

If local authorities had actually spent the money they made from levies imposed on developers and fixed the water pipes which lose up to 1/3 of the water this would not be an issue.

If local authorities had imposed conditions of planning on developers to provide water meters this issue would not have arisen.

Robdude

lugha wrote: »

I’d have no objection in principle, though there probably wouldn’t be a well in most gardens I think. And there may be other issues in build up areas. But certainly people could look at rain harvesting mechanisms.

If they want the convenience of piped water then people should pay for it, and as is the case with electricity and gas and so on, paying according to the amount you use seems perfectly sensible to me. But if people do not want these conveniences then they should have the right not to have them if that is there wish. I'd fully support anyone taking that stance.

If I paid no taxes - I'd totally agree with you. But we already pay taxes....

This is like going to an 'All you can eat buffet' and paying 10 euro for food and drink. Then, during the meal, the manager comes out and asks for another euro.

After all - he has to provide electricity and maintain the building!

Then, you go up for a second plate of food and he comes back and says, 'Whoa - you are getting MORE food? I need to charge you another euro!'

Which is odd because you thought it was all you can eat - but I guess that makes sense.

Then he comes back and says - 'You know, the silverware and dishes you are eating off of - they aren't free! I have to pay for them. I have to pay someone to watch them! I need another euro from you!'

And you pay it.

Then he returns - to introduce the 'chair and table fee' - so you pay it.
Then he returns - this time to introduce a fee for the water you drinking.
Then he returns - this time to charge you for the food you are eating.

Now you are paying 2-3x as much as you used to pay - and you've got itemized charges that cover ALL of the things your original fee was supposed to pay; with no explanation for what the original 10 euro is no going to.

My taxes haven't gone down - what new benefit am I getting in place of the water I used to get in exchange for my taxes?

flutered

lugha wrote: »

Should food be free also?

I certainly think that people should have the choice not to be supplied with water if they want to source it themselves.

i have news for you and it is all sad, phil the flute(r) claims that it is a national resource, as so it is the property of the goverment, he expects it to be paid for,he expects every one to shell out and keep smileing.

Yakuza

melekalikimaka wrote: »

what law says they cant right now?

I would be pretty surprised if there was currently a law that allows government agents to come onto private property and start digging it up to install something. As far as I know, only Customs have draconian powers (warrantless entry) and that's only to take stuff away, not install more.

But, just as they are ( in the process of) amending the Data Protection laws to get their grubby mits on householder name data from the utility companies, they'll empower agents to do exactly the above.

Biggins

Bullseye1 wrote: »

Water is not free. This is pure propaganda spouted by LAs and government. People who pay tax do not get water for free.

If local authorities had actually spent the money they made from levies imposed on developers and fixed the water pipes which lose up to 1/3 of the water this would not be an issue.

If local authorities had imposed conditions of planning on developers to provide water meters this issue would not have arisen.

I take exception to the charging of a water meter.

If someone wants to charge me something, they can pay-up themselves for the means to charge me for use of water!

I do not object to paying for something I use.
I object to their forcing a meter on me (if I want it or not) and then telling me I must also pay for it!
Not only that but because they have 'awarded' me the privilege of having a meter, they then on top of this are going to charge me yearly (another form of tax!) for the luxury of having it!
...and what's this rental cost going towards? Its maintaince?

flutered

genie wrote: »

I have a rainwater harvesting system for my house (so anyone turning up on my doorstep expecting to install a water meter has got another thing coming!) and it is fantastic.

It really is something which a lot more people should look into doing.

as we are nearer boston than berlin, most parts of the u.s. have a roof tax, they charge for the rain water, the flute(r) will try the same here next year.

ilovesleep

Biggins wrote: »

To summarise, so far in just over a year we have had of FG and Labour

* Irish people are left with a full 1.5 BILLION bill.
(Because FG/Labour won't hold to account the religious orders)

* Refusing to say if or not, they are still having meetings with shysters named in the Mahon report!

* Their cronyism blankly continues.

* They break even their own wage rules with awarded massive hikes.

* They refuse to hold to account those that have been deemed bad in the Mahon report
(...And as such by in-action, what a waste of money that was!)

* Cancelled six other investigations!
(Possibly because some of their own involved yet again?)

* They have TOTALLY reversed positions on many, many areas and particular topics.

* They have invented many a new tax, charge, payment, levy or whatever name they can think up by the month.

* They are price fixing the cost of drink!
(As in their own FG manifesto, by side-effect, in aiding bars to see rake more profits alone - but never mentioning ANYTHING about teens - but thats the excuse now!)

* They have jumped like good little lapdogs at every order from French/German masters.
(Even more than once, giving them budget details before even the Irish people get them!)

* Reversed position on Third level fees!

* Still paying out to the Bondholders.

* Sourcing data from household bills, possibly breaking European privacy laws!

* Making paycuts to some public servants while uping their own expenses and inventing more for themselves.

* Changed the Dail clocking in system so they can exploit it in a number of ways - even if they are not actually there!

* Refusing so far to hold Mr Ahern to further account!

* Changed their position on corporate donations!

* Changed their position on the number of TD's needed!

* Stalled on the 16 years report about changes much needed to fathers rights!

* Refusing to change rule 68 of the national schools (religion related) and rule 69, which is purely sexist!

* Stalling (hoping we will forget?) over the matter of the Seanad - still instead using it to reward their own!

* Made a total fcuk-up of the household charge!

* Made a total fcuk-up of the turf-cutting issue!

* Dropped the climate change bill in November 2011

* Slaughtered Garda resources and numbers!

* Reversed the addressing of the (too) many quango's. Using them instead to place their own people on them!

* FG and Lab Manifestos: stated there would be vetting of appointments to state boards by the Oireachtas.
Now? Example: Party political appointments have been made, without any oversight or transparency. In October 2011, they appointed the former head of AIB Investment Management as head of the New Era quango, without revealing her pay or conditions.

* Addressing further the Freedom of Information act? Become non-existent. Vanished!
Instead rushed through and totally fcuked up laws pertaining to the internet, right of use giving cut-off powers to a semi-state body that is also possibly breaking European law!

...And the above is just off the top of my head as I can remember them.

We need to get rid of these fcuks out of power. They need an ousting from government. FF number 2 continuing with greed and corruption. We need a revolution.

lugha

flutered wrote: »

i have news for you and it is all sad, phil the flute(r) claims that it is a national resource, as so it is the property of the goverment, he expects it to be paid for,he expects every one to shell out and keep smileing.

Could you not say exactly the same thing about the natural gas we get from Kinsale? Should we get gas free?

And property of the people, not the government.

ilovesleep

Biggins wrote: »

I take exception to the charging of a water meter.

If someone wants to charge me something, they can pay-up themselves for the means to charge me for use of water!

I do not object to paying for something I use.
I object to their forcing a meter on me (if I want it or not) and then telling me I must also pay for it!
Not only that but because they have 'awarded' me the privilege of having a meter, they then on top of this are going to charge me yearly (another form of tax!) for the luxury of having it!
...and what's this rental cost going towards? Its maintaince?

Why are you not in government Mr.Biggins? You would do a great job.

lugha

Robdude wrote: »

My taxes haven't gone down - what new benefit am I getting in place of the water I used to get in exchange for my taxes?

Are you aware that we have a budget deficit?

Bullseye1

Can those who say we get water free please explain since those of us who pay our taxes are confused. We get nothing for free in this country.

Freddie59

lugha wrote: »

I’d have no objection in principle, though there probably wouldn’t be a well in most gardens I think. And there may be other issues in build up areas. But certainly people could look at rain harvesting mechanisms.

If they want the convenience of piped water then people should pay for it, and as is the case with electricity and gas and so on, paying according to the amount you use seems perfectly sensible to me. But if people do not want these conveniences then they should have the right not to have them if that is there wish. I'd fully support anyone taking that stance.

Water is a basic necessity Lugha. Given that the current bailout of failed businesses and CS/PS sector pay/"entitlements" is causing it makes it all the more maddening.

ilovesleep

F.F. = Fcuking Fcuks
F.G. = Fcuking Gangsters
Lab (short for Labour) = Lickers of Arses and Bollo(kes

lividduck

Yakuza wrote: »

I would be pretty surprised if there was currently a law that allows government agents to come onto private property and start digging it up to install something. As far as I know, only Customs have draconian powers (warrantless entry) and that's only to take stuff away, not install more.

But, just as they are ( in the process of) amending the Data Protection laws to get their grubby mits on householder name data from the utility companies, they'll empower agents to do exactly the above.

Firstly they are amending Data protection laws because they dont need to, and second the can already enter your property, an elderly woman was jailed for contempt a few months ago for trying to prevent Eirgrid from chopping down her trees on her land.

Biggins

Bullseye1 wrote: »

Can those who say we get water free please explain since those of us who pay our taxes are confused. We get nothing for free in this country.

Well thats not entirely true.
We get abused for free! (correction, we have to pay for that later)
We get taken the piss out of for free though!

We cannot however, even be charged for free.
We have to it seems, even have to pay for the ability of being made pay, for services! ...And that sums up the latest present non-funny joke complements of FG and Labour!

Robdude

lugha wrote: »

Are you aware that we have a budget deficit?

Do you believe the budget deficit is caused by a lack of water tax? Is there a huge water debt burden that greatly exceeds the tax revenue collected to pay for water?

If you honestly think the answer is yes; then I fully understand supporting water meters. To be 100% fair - I don't know if this is the case, but I assume it is not. I haven't heard anything about dramatic increases in water costs or water consumption in Ireland.

If the answer is no - then let's address cause of the budget deficit. A budget deficit is when we spend more than we take in. I don't remember hearing about any huge tax cuts; so it would make sense that we start looking at what we are spending our money on, rather than introducing more taxes.

What bothers me about the water metering thing; is that it's being kicked around under the guise of being a rational thing to do. Water isn't free! This is a totally reasonable thing to do! We're not raising taxes to pay for ridiculous stuff; instead we're taking your tax money that used to pay for water and using it for ridiculous stuff and making you pay a new tax for a perfectly reasonable thing - WATER!

Freddie59

lugha wrote: »

Are you aware that we have a budget deficit?

Ah Lugha, you're gas. Seriously.

Biggins

Its really taking the piss when it looks like the Irish people once again will be made to pay up for the privilege of being made to pay up!
...And for ever more in 'rental' charges (or whatever convoluted name they can give it next) for that privilege! O' what joy!

lugha

Freddie59 wrote: »

Water is a basic necessity

No more so that electricity or gas / oil. We can survive without any of these things piped into our homes but at a cost of considerable inconvenience.

There is no more a case for free water than there is for free gas. The only difference is, we are used to paying for gas in proportion to the amount we use. That is not the case for water.

Bullseye1

There you go again with your propaganda of free water. It's not free we pay taxes and those of us who pay rates also pay for water for commercial properties.

lugha wrote: »

No more so that electricity or gas / oil. We can survive without any of these things piped into our homes but at a cost of considerable inconvenience.

There is no more a case for free water than there is for free gas. The only difference is, we are used to paying for gas in proportion to the amount we use. That is not the case for water.

genie

Yakuza wrote: »

? Really - that's massive - around 4 *4 *4 metres. That's a serious tank!

Yes, it is pretty big and is partly sunken into the ground. It's about 2m high. If I was to build one myself, I'd try and see if the whole tank could be underground.

ilovesleep

By any chances does anyone know how much the private sector's exporting industry here in Ireland is worth? How many billions?

If you think about it - say for example all the governments funding and borrowing is stopped the goverment would have to balance the budget straight away. We'd be living of the taxes raised from the exporting industry and indeed tourism but I'm guessing the tourism industry wouldn't be worth as much as the exporting industry.

The government should be slashing spending and public expeniture to match what the exporting industry is worth.

awec

Biggins wrote: »

Its really taking the piss when it looks like the Irish people once again will be made to pay up for the privilege of being made to pay up!
...And for ever more in 'rental' charges (or whatever convoluted name they can give it next) for that privilege! O' what joy!

Just last week we heard that the catholic church has said it can't pay the 1.5billion that it owes! We are paying for that!

So if I decide I can't pay my water bill, will I get away with it too? :mad:

We're getting screwed left, right and centre!

awec

lugha wrote: »

No more so that electricity or gas / oil. We can survive without any of these things piped into our homes but at a cost of considerable inconvenience.

There is no more a case for free water than there is for free gas. The only difference is, we are used to paying for gas in proportion to the amount we use. That is not the case for water.

Can you tell me where you get this free water?

Fighting Irish

AntiRip wrote: »

Awh public sector I see. If you weren't just a ... you'd see the point I was trying to make about the unfairness of the tax. Don't bother wasting your time replying to me, I block all knobs like yourself :rolleyes:

:pac:

Biggins

awec wrote: »

Just last week we heard that the catholic church has said it can't pay the 1.5billion that it owes! We are paying for that!

So if I decide I can't pay my water bill, will I get away with it too? :mad:

We're getting screwed left, right and centre!

...And while our political present masters do the screwing on us, they are making us pay for the lube!

lugha

Bullseye1 wrote: »

There you go again with your propaganda of free water. It's not free we pay taxes and those of us who pay rates also pay for water for commercial properties.

I'm possibly not being very clear in my post. Of course water is not free.

Robdude

lugha wrote: »

No more so that electricity or gas / oil. We can survive without any of these things piped into our homes but at a cost of considerable inconvenience.

There is no more a case for free water than there is for free gas. The only difference is, we are used to paying for gas in proportion to the amount we use. That is not the case for water.

Who currently pays for the water consumed by households?
Tax payers

Who is going to pay for the water consumed by households after the metering?
Tax payers

Now, if this was really about paying for water; I'd expect to see the figures on the average amount of water used per household in the country and the amount of tax required to pay for that. Then, I'd expect to see *some* tax reduced by that amount.

Thus, if you used less than the average; you would save money under the metered system. If you used more than average; you'd pay more to reflect your usage.

But - this isn't about paying for water. We already pay for water. We'll keep paying the tax for water; but then get to pay a new tax that is also for water. And we get to pay extra for the equipment to monitor the water usage and the overhead that goes along with billing and collecting....for the gift of paying for the water we've already paid for while the tax money that used to pay for our water gets spent on something else.