How to revive the Irish language.

Toirdhealbhach Tadhg O Caoindealbhain

EclipsiumRasa wrote: »

Wait, do you mean the number will go up or down, or the numbers as a percentage of the total population will go up or down

The number of second-language Irish speakers is going up, and will continue to go up because of the continuous growth of the gaelscoileanna. (stats here). I can't see that trend changing unless there's a sudden revolt against Irish-medium education!

EclipsiumRasa wrote: »

I do worry that it could just be a fashionable trend in parenting ("all the other mummies and daddies are doing it, so should I" is a horrible notion but all too human)..

If parents think sending their kids to Irish-speaking schools is fashionable, isn't that a good thing? At the end of the day, it means more Irish speakers, which in turn means more qualified teachers at the other end for new Gaelscoils!

Iwasfrozen

Toirdhealbhach Tadhg O Caoindealbhain wrote: »

Honestly, a chairde, move on. You're flogging a dead horse talking to this fella

If you disagree with my statement you're entitled to your opinion. Everything i said in that quote is true though. Tell me Toird, apart from nationalistic reasons why learn irish over any other more useful language?

Wacker The Attacker

Faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaack off gaeilgee

All this talk about whether Irish is worth saving ot not makes me wonder what if North America was first successfully colonised by the Dutch rather than the English, would we be debating whether the first language is Dutch or Irish!

English would have been considered "less useful" by emigrants to the US and only useful for trade with the UK.

Iwasfrozen

Deleted User wrote: »

All this talk about whether Irish is worth saving ot not makes me wonder what if North America was first successfully colonised by the Dutch rather than the English, would we be debating whether the first language is Dutch or Irish!

Unless the Dutch colonised us as well we wouldn't be having that discussion.

indioblack

Deleted User wrote: »

All this talk about whether Irish is worth saving ot not makes me wonder what if North America was first successfully colonised by the Dutch rather than the English, would we be debating whether the first language is Dutch or Irish!

English would have been considered "less useful" by emigrants to the US and only useful for trade with the UK.

Interesting point. English is a successful language - but how much is that attributable to history - imperialism, colonisation - and how much to the effectiveness and malleability of the language?
I wanted a reason to use the word malleable!

Toirdhealbhach Tadhg O Caoindealbhain

If I had to choose a majority language for the World, it certainly wouldn't be English. It's riddled with archaic spellings, lacks logical patterns and rules, which makes it notoriously difficult to learn for non-natives.

Spanish, on the other hand, can be picked up extremely quickly and it's spelling system is childsplay. It's a very logical language for learners.

Ultimately, Esperanto would be used, but it never seemed to take off.

Birroc

Toirdhealbhach Tadhg O Caoindealbhain wrote: »

Spanish, on the other hand, can be picked up extremely quickly and it's spelling system is childsplay. It's a very logical language for learners.

Ultimately, Esperanto would be used, but it never seemed to take off.

Fair enough, lets drop Irish and take up Spanish. Much cooler/sexier language (thinking spagetti westerns), relatively useful, handy for sun holidays. Irish on the other hand is relatively useless and lets be honest sounds fairly brutal in comparison (kinda suits our weather - wet and sickly).

I heard Italian is easyish to learn too.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Toirdhealbhach Tadhg O Caoindealbhain wrote: »

If I had to choose a majority language for the World, it certainly wouldn't be English. It's riddled with archaic spellings, lacks logical patterns and rules, which makes it notoriously difficult to learn for non-natives.

Spanish, on the other hand, can be picked up extremely quickly and it's spelling system is childsplay. It's a very logical language for learners.

Ultimately, Esperanto would be used, but it never seemed to take off.

Elvish? A beautiful language and a very peaceful and caring culture to boot...

Stained Class

Toirdhealbhach Tadhg O Caoindealbhain wrote: »

The number of second-language Irish speakers is going up, and will continue to go up because of the continuous growth of the gaelscoileanna. (stats here). I can't see that trend changing unless there's a sudden revolt against Irish-medium education!

I think the rise in the attendence of children in Gaelscoileanna might be in some way related to the number of immigrants coming into this country in the last 10-15 years.

'Mary, we'll send the child to the Gale-school, no Fordiners go there!'

Birroc

Stained Class wrote: »

I think the rise in the attendence of children in Gaelscoileanna might be in some way related to the number of immigrants coming into this country in the last 10-15 years.

'Mary, we'll send the child to the Gale-school, no Fordiners go there!'

I agree with you on this but you are going to get shot down for even suggesting it!

Stained Class

Birroc wrote: »

I agree with you on this but you are going to get shot down for even suggesting it!

No doubt about that. We're dealing with the Jihad here.:D

It's a trend at the moment, but trends, just like fashions can change very quickly...

LordSutch

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I don't believe I ever said any thing anti irish...

Neither did I, although Seanchai is convinced otherwise.

It might be a RA thing with him and me? I am anti them ergo I must be anti Irish? (guessing) I might also have upset him because I think that Irish should not be a mandatory subject right through to leaving cert. Who knows, he's a very complicated & volatile fella is our friend Seanchai )

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

LordSutch wrote: »

Neither did I, although Seanchai is convinced otherwise.

It might be a RA thing with him and me? I am anti them ergo I must be anti Irish? (guessing) I might also have upset him because I think that Irish should not be a mandatory subject right through to leaving cert. Who knows, he's a very complicated & volatile fella is our friend Seanchai )

There's Brits under the feckin floorboards in his world.

Toirdhealbhach Tadhg O Caoindealbhain

Great news, everyone! Another Gaelscoil has opened in Tír Eoghan.

"A growing awareness of Irish medium education in Northern Ireland, coupled with the school’s excellent teaching reputation are two factors said to have contributed to its growing numbers."

http://www.midulstermail.co.uk/lifestyle/first-gaelscoil-begins-new-term-1-4265806

Fair play to them. More of these please

dubhthach

Stained Class wrote: »

No doubt about that. We're dealing with the Jihad here.:D

It's a trend at the moment, but trends, just like fashions can change very quickly...

Let somehow while I was watching TG4 news you could clearly see plenty of students who were children of immigrants entering their new Gaelscoil building in Lucan (that replaced prefabs that were there for over 10 years!)

The biggest growth in Gaelscoil numbers were in the period 1972-1996 when their numbers grew by 8.63x from 11 schools in existence in 1972 to 95 in 1995/96. Did you ever consider that people who went to Gaelscoils themselves during this period might also want to send their children?

Of course the real issue is that elements in the Department of Education are hell bent at refusing the recognition of new Gaelscoileanna. No doubt due to the fact that they are (a) driven by parental demand (b) have considerably higher parental buyin/participation then your average school.

Mandarins don't like challenges to their perceived "natural order" after all.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Toirdhealbhach Tadhg O Caoindealbhain wrote: »

Great news, everyone! Another Gaelscoil has opened in Tír Eoghan.

"A growing awareness of Irish medium education in Northern Ireland, coupled with the school’s excellent teaching reputation are two factors said to have contributed to its growing numbers."

http://www.midulstermail.co.uk/lifestyle/first-gaelscoil-begins-new-term-1-4265806

Fair play to them. More of these please

Is it just me or is everyone else reading this in Professor Farnsworth's voice...?

LordSutch

Interesting post that^ which leads me to ask 'why' doesn't the department of education make all Primary schools Gaelscoils? and why are they refusing the recognition of new Gaelscoileanna? surely the department want a totally Irish speaking youth by 2016?

I didn't realise that Gaelscoils had being going so long, I thought they only appeared within the last ten years.

An Coilean

LordSutch wrote: »

Interesting post that^ which leads me to ask 'why' doesn't the department of education make all Primary schools Gaelscoils?

I didn't realise that Gaelscoils had being going so long, I thought they only appeared within the last ten years.

http://www.gaelscoileanna.ie/about/statistics/
Here is a link to the growth of Gaelscoilleanna over the last 40 years.

The growth of gaelscoilleanna has been nothing by comparrision to the Growth of Naíonraí (Irish language Pre-schools) over tha last few years.

In the last three years alone 65 have opened.

Toirdhealbhach Tadhg O Caoindealbhain

LordSutch wrote: »

Interesting post that^ which leads me to ask 'why' doesn't the department of education make all Primary schools Gaelscoils? and why are they refusing the recognition of new Gaelscoileanna? surely the department want a totally Irish speaking youth by 2016?

I didn't realise that Gaelscoils had being going so long, I thought they only appeared within the last ten years.

This is something the government should have focused on during the Free State. Had they focused their efforts on opening Irish-medium schools rather than teaching it so terribly in English schools, we may now have a majority of Irish-medium schools in this country, and a large bilingual population.

As it stands, there aren't enough fluent teachers nor the resources to make all schools Gaelscoils today.

Lord TSC

LordSutch wrote: »

Interesting post that^ which leads me to ask 'why' doesn't the department of education make all Primary schools Gaelscoils?

Given the standard of Irish among some primary school teachers, wouldn't they be unable to teach in the Gaelscoils, thus meaning such a move would mean they'd have to fire hundreds of teachers?

Of course the real issue is that elements in the Department of Education are hell bent at refusing the recognition of new Gaelscoileanna. No doubt due to the fact that they are (a) driven by parental demand (b) have considerably higher parental buyin/participation then your average school.

By recognizing them, wouldn't they likely then be asked to contribute to them? Or does the DoE already contribute to such schools?

Also, how much of the immigrants sending their kids to GSs, and indeed the growing number of kids attending them, can be put down to the fact class sizes in other "normal" schools are gone so massive, they can't take in students, leaving GSs as the only other option for them. What percentage of parents send their kids to GSs because they want them in an Irish-driven school compared to parents sending their kid to the nearest available school, or the only school willing to accept new students in the area?

This isn't me being smart or anything; just pointing out there's more questions needed before anyone uses the line "GSs are booming, ergo everyone wants to learn Irish". There's more reasons than that to why the GSs might be doing well....

Toirdhealbhach Tadhg O Caoindealbhain

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

This isn't me being smart or anything; just pointing out there's more questions needed before anyone uses the line "GSs are booming, ergo everyone wants to learn Irish". There's more reasons than that to why the GSs might be doing well....

I think it's gas that many here cannot except the fact that parents would send their children to Gaelscoils purely so that they can become fluent in Irish.

They are instead accused of being elitists, snobs or doing it just to rub other people's noses.

An Coilean

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

This isn't me being smart or anything; just pointing out there's more questions needed before anyone uses the line "GSs are booming, ergo everyone wants to learn Irish". There's more reasons than that to why the GSs might be doing well....

No doubt there are many factors involved, but the bottom line is that whether there is a deep burning desire to learn Irish or not, they are still learning Irish to a high level of fluency.

Toirdhealbhach Tadhg O Caoindealbhain

An Coilean wrote: »

No doubt there are many factors involved, but the bottom line is that whether there is a deep burning desire to learn Irish or not, they are still learning Irish to a high level of fluency.

Yeah, does it really matter why parents choose Gaelscoils? At the end of the day it means more fluent Irish speakers in this country. Woo hoo!

Lord TSC

Toirdhealbhach Tadhg O Caoindealbhain wrote: »

I think it's gas that many here cannot except the fact that parents would send their children to Gaelscoils purely so that they can become fluent in Irish.

They are instead accused of being elitists, snobs or doing it just to rub other people's noses.

I wasn't trying to label parents anything. I'm not saying there are not parents who want their kids to be fluent in Irish. Of course there are. I am saying that not 100% of the kids going to those schools are going because of that reason.

Parents, ultimately, have the right to choose what school they send their kids to and why. I do find it funny though that here is an example of Irish being optional to an extent and it working, but try and suggest the same options be offered further down the line, and you're shouted off the website.

Lord TSC

Toirdhealbhach Tadhg O Caoindealbhain wrote: »

Yeah, does it really matter why parents choose Gaelscoils?

Well...yeah, it does.

The topic of this title is "How to revive the Irish Language"? You don't think it's important to identify why parents are choosing GSs in the hope of building on that foundation and continue the "revival" of the language? I'd have thought figuring out why parents are choosing the schools would be core to working out how to revive the language!

An Coilean

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Well...yeah, it does.

The topic of this title is "How to revive the Irish Language"? You don't think it's important to identify why parents are choosing GSs in the hope of building on that foundation and continue the "revival" of the language? I'd have thought figuring out why parents are choosing the schools would be core to working out how to revive the language!

Not really, We already know, a large majority of people think Irish is actually an important part of who we are. This coupled with Gaelscoils being a very good form of education, time and again producing good results is a reciepy for success.

Lord TSC

Sums it up really though.

Here you've got a genuine example and proof of the demand existing, an example which shows there's grounds for a revival....and rather than investigate it, you just want to accept it's happening and move on from the matter?

If I was genuinely interested in reviving the language, I'd be doing everything I can, every survey, questionaire and research project I could, into figuring out why GSs have been so successful, hoping to find a way to replicate that success en masse.

An Coilean

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

If I was genuinely interested in reviving the language, I'd be doing everything I can, every survey, questionaire and research project I could, into figuring out why GSs have been so successful, hoping to find a way to replicate that success en masse.

What part of we already know why gaelscoils are successful don't you understand?

Stained Class

An Coilean wrote: »

What part of we already know why gaelscoils are successful don't you understand?

No children from other parts.

*circle the wagons*