LPG Conversion

sorel

zilvinasb wrote: »

I personally would buy Diesel. Modern diesels has spectacular power, very economical, and less hassle going through process of refilling the tank. I have experience refilling a gas on the car, it is not a pleasant job to do.

on the start you've lost €5K... when it start to paying back?

Stinicker

I've been running my e36 BMW on LPG since the beginning of October and have almost 30% of the €1,000 conversion cost saved and I should be at break even point point by June.

I am paying 99.9c/litre most of the time but like many others I also am having supply issues and have run out of gas twice but was able to refill within 5 miles each time as I effectively hedge my fuel and always fill with LPG when I am in the vicinity of a LPG pump. Ironically the nearest place that sells it is €1.16/L so I avoid getting it there unless absolutely stuck.

I have burnt 550 litres of LPG since Conversion and my mileage is not massive, I was doing a commute of 600kms a week but had to give it up due to the stresses of slow drivers and even despite being on LPG it was costing me €65/week due to the 99.9c/l pricing which is so common. This was my main motivation for converting to save money on the long commute which in the finish did not work out. I don't regret converting still as driving is now more affordable and it will pay for itself although it will take that little but longer now as my mileage is less.

As for running the car off bottled gas it is not economically viable and I have looked into this as a solution to my supply issues but bottled gas is around €1.30/L and you'd want to buy it in the big cylinders and get a pump to pump it into your own car tank then. You'd be looking at around €200 for a LPG pump and to buy those big LPG cylinders are expensive too, refilling them at the pump is supposed to be illegal but I've read online of people in the UK doing it but am not sure of the legality of it over there as the UK is far more LPG friendly than this place.

My ideal situation would be to get my own home supply bulk tank in the back garden and it is something I am considering but once again Calor Gas want €500 a year in rent alone for the liquid offtake tank so it would probably be better to buy one. LPG Gas heating is totally uneconomical as it does not have the same KWH or BTUs as Oil and would want to be priced much cheaper to compensate for the greater inefficiency.

However as a transport fuel it works great and if Calor and FloGas were to join forces with the likes of Topaz or a big fourcourt retailer they could sell far more LPG than they ever will in the diminishing home heating market. LPGas is also far more environmentally friendly and if there was to be a CNG (Compressed Natural Gas) refilling network rolled out then we could even end our dependence on imported fossil fuels. LPG is actually made out of Crude Oil and is actually a byproduct from the refining of Petrol, Diesel, Kerosene etc.

If the Government were to give a tax guarantee on the fuel and some sort of incentive to the big players then the industry would blossom and create a few thousand jobs also.

sorel

Stinicker wrote: »

I've been running my e36 BMW on LPG since the beginning of October and have almost 30% of the €1,000 conversion cost saved and I should be at break even point point by June.

I am paying 99.9c/litre most of the time but like many others I also am having supply issues and have run out of gas twice but was able to refill within 5 miles each time as I effectively hedge my fuel and always fill with LPG when I am in the vicinity of a LPG pump. Ironically the nearest place that sells it is €1.16/L so I avoid getting it there unless absolutely stuck.

I have burnt 550 litres of LPG since Conversion and my mileage is not massive, I was doing a commute of 600kms a week but had to give it up due to the stresses of slow drivers and even despite being on LPG it was costing me €65/week due to the 99.9c/l pricing which is so common. This was my main motivation for converting to save money on the long commute which in the finish did not work out. I don't regret converting still as driving is now more affordable and it will pay for itself although it will take that little but longer now as my mileage is less.

As for running the car off bottled gas it is not economically viable and I have looked into this as a solution to my supply issues but bottled gas is around €1.30/L and you'd want to buy it in the big cylinders and get a pump to pump it into your own car tank then. You'd be looking at around €200 for a LPG pump and to buy those big LPG cylinders are expensive too, refilling them at the pump is supposed to be illegal but I've read online of people in the UK doing it but am not sure of the legality of it over there as the UK is far more LPG friendly than this place.

My ideal situation would be to get my own home supply bulk tank in the back garden and it is something I am considering but once again Calor Gas want €500 a year in rent alone for the liquid offtake tank so it would probably be better to buy one. LPG Gas heating is totally uneconomical as it does not have the same KWH or BTUs as Oil and would want to be priced much cheaper to compensate for the greater inefficiency.

However as a transport fuel it works great and if Calor and FloGas were to join forces with the likes of Topaz or a big fourcourt retailer they could sell far more LPG than they ever will in the diminishing home heating market. LPGas is also far more environmentally friendly and if there was to be a CNG (Compressed Natural Gas) refilling network rolled out then we could even end our dependence on imported fossil fuels. LPG is actually made out of Crude Oil and is actually a byproduct from the refining of Petrol, Diesel, Kerosene etc.

If the Government were to give a tax guarantee on the fuel and some sort of incentive to the big players then the industry would blossom and create a few thousand jobs also.

come on Ireland

The Pontiac

I'm totally sold on the idea.

Just the thought of shopping for a big engine petrol saloon and all those bargains to be had. Look at that clown they'd say, look what he just bought. Then off to buy my fuel for 79c a litre. Almost half price. So if you were getting 25mpg, that would equate to 50mpg in the real world, slightly better than my 1.9tid. Bonkers.

Wicklowandy

sorel wrote: »

the alternative is stupid because of price. same lpg in cylinder €1.50 and pump price 0.79
no point to pay 1.50 for lpg when petrol price 1.60

If theres no big cost (which i dont know) in refilling cylinders, that shows a massive mark up to the supplier, but id reckon very low sales. Someone says here that there are legal and safety issues with using lpg in a car from a cylinder, which is fair enough.

Legal and safety issues aside for a moment, if you could buy lpg anywhere at a reasonable price in this manner, the supplier would sell a lot more cylinders, and wherever you were in the country you would have a secure supply.

The Pontiac

Interesting article here.

Anyone use Witek Spaniczek (the guy mentioned in the article) to do a conversion?

Here is his website, with locations in Kildare, Clonmel and Wexford.

Prices seems reasonable, with 2 years unlimited mileage warranty:

4 cylinder engine up to 150 BHP 1499 €1099
6 cylinder engine up to 250 BHP 1749 €1299
8 cylinder engine up to 300 BHP 1999 €1599

Stinicker

My car was converted by them in Kilcullen three months ago. They were one of the first to start doing conversions in Ireland and since then several new places have opened in Cork, Dublin and Meath.

LPG.ie & vv-tech-lpg.com same company.

The Pontiac

Stinicker wrote: »

My car was converted by them in Kilcullen three months ago. They were one of the first to start doing conversions in Ireland and since then several new places have opened in Cork, Dublin and Meath.

LPG.ie & vv-tech-lpg.com same company.

www.lpg.ie is a nicer website and the gallery shows cars after conversion.

What kind did you get Stinicker? The tank where the spare wheel goes looks the best, but you'd be pretty screwed if you ever got a puncture.

sorel

<Ollie> wrote: »

Interesting article here.

Anyone use Witek Spaniczek (the guy mentioned in the article) to do a conversion?

Here is his website, with locations in Kildare, Clonmel and Wexford.

Prices seems reasonable, with 2 years unlimited mileage warranty:

4 cylinder engine up to 150 BHP 1499 €1099
6 cylinder engine up to 250 BHP 1749 €1299
8 cylinder engine up to 300 BHP 1999 €1599

I didin't but, I found something about two different
here

Stinicker

<Ollie> wrote: »

www.lpg.ie is a nicer website and the gallery shows cars after conversion.

What kind did you get Stinicker? The tank where the spare wheel goes looks the best, but you'd be pretty screwed if you ever got a puncture.

I got the spare wheel donut tank and it has a 52ltrs capacity. I have a can of that tyreweld stuff in the boot now incase I ever get a puncture. I have been driving 7 years now and never once got a puncture, along with a 12v compressor. They also gave me a carry bag for the sparewheel so you can always pop it in the boot if you were going on a long journey. I also have breakdown insurance so am pretty covered either way. If you thinking of converting you can actually buy those cans of tyreweld in ALDI this week for €4.99, it is a generic type but I paid €14 for tyreweld in Halfords for my car! :mad:

sorel

Stinicker wrote: »

I got the spare wheel donut tank and it has a 52ltrs capacity. I have a can of that tyreweld stuff in the boot now incase I ever get a puncture. I have been driving 7 years now and never once got a puncture, along with a 12v compressor. They also gave me a carry bag for the sparewheel so you can always pop it in the boot if you were going on a long journey. I also have breakdown insurance so am pretty covered either way. If you thinking of converting you can actually buy those cans of tyreweld in ALDI this week for €4.99, it is a generic type but I paid €14 for tyreweld in Halfords for my car! :mad:

what car did you convert?. Where did they place filling valve?.

The Pontiac

sorel wrote: »

I didin't but, I found something about two different
here

Good thread, must read it all, cheers.

Stinicker wrote: »

I got the spare wheel donut tank and it has a 52ltrs capacity. I have a can of that tyreweld stuff in the boot now incase I ever get a puncture. I have been driving 7 years now and never once got a puncture, along with a 12v compressor. They also gave me a carry bag for the sparewheel so you can always pop it in the boot if you were going on a long journey. I also have breakdown insurance so am pretty covered either way. If you thinking of converting you can actually buy those cans of tyreweld in ALDI this week for €4.99, it is a generic type but I paid €14 for tyreweld in Halfords for my car! :mad:

I've been driving 15 years and only had a puncture once. Never thought of the tyreweld, great idea. And, as you say, you can always put the spare in the boot for longer trips.

I'd definitely go with the same set-up, much neater.

Stinicker

sorel wrote: »

what car did you convert?. Where did they place filling valve?.

BMW E36 316i SE Automatic 1.6litre. The filling valve is located at the bottom of the bumper on the right hand side. If you looked at the car from a distance and didn't know about LPG you might think it had two exhausts rather than one now.

The filling valve is a micro type and you must first screw on an adapter (which they provided) and then screw the lpg filler nozzle onto that, pull and lock the trigger and then keep the dead mans handle pressed at the LPG pump until you hear the LPG pump groaning and then the tank is filled.

sorel

Stinicker wrote: »

BMW E36 316i SE Automatic 1.6litre. The filling valve is located at the bottom of the bumper on the right hand side. If you looked at the car from a distance and didn't know about LPG you might think it had two exhausts rather than one now.

The filling valve is a micro type and you must first screw on an adapter (which they provided) and then screw the lpg filler nozzle onto that, pull and lock the trigger and then keep the dead mans handle pressed at the LPG pump until you hear the LPG pump groaning and then the tank is filled.

I've seen a few times cars during refuelling . Driver wishing to refuel his vehicle must lie down under the car, because the LPG refuelling valve placed below the bumper… Should not it be placed by the petrol filler?.

Stinicker

sorel wrote: »

I've seen a few times cars during refuelling . Driver wishing to refuel his vehicle must lie down under the car, because the LPG refuelling valve placed below the bumper… Should not it be placed by the petrol filler?.

In most cases it actually is placed within the petrol cap but in my own car it is below the bumper but it is still easy to access and you certainly don't have to lie down get at it.

These vids give a pretty good picture of how you refuel with Autogas and it is the same procedure with my car except the filler valve is not in the petrol cap.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJGlpjz627o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHiaWbOQq7M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68CvcIWYo8Y

sorel

Stinicker wrote: »

In most cases it actually is placed within the petrol cap but in my own car it is below the bumper but it is still easy to access and you certainly don't have to lie down get at it.

These vids give a pretty good picture of how you refuel with Autogas and it is the same procedure with my car except the filler valve is not in the petrol cap.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJGlpjz627o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHiaWbOQq7M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68CvcIWYo8Y

are you happy about they placed filling valve under the bumper?.

Matt Simis

sorel wrote: »

I've seen a few times cars during refuelling . Driver wishing to refuel his vehicle must lie down under the car, because the LPG refuelling valve placed below the bumper… Should not it be placed by the petrol filler?.

Seriously where did you see such things? Ive never even heard of something so ghetto, unless you are talking about some thrown together DIY install, which you cannot do here (as no insurer would touch it).

sorel wrote: »

are you happy about they placed filling valve under the bumper?.

Why wouldnt you be? These are bizarre questions. And lying down to fill up.. are you mad? Do you really think anyone would install a fueling system requiring the owner to lie in the dirt to fill it?

Are you happy about the placement of the petrol filler? At least with LPG you have some say on where it goes.
Here was mine on my S8, standard location is in the lower bumper, not under the car or anything so mental. Screw in, set to fill, cuts out when full, less involvement than Petrol filling.

Stinicker

sorel wrote: »

are you happy about they placed filling valve under the bumper?.

It dosen't really bother me to be honest, it is more awkward for filling yes but I am used to it now. The places I buy autogas always have the pump in a kind of out of the way location on the forecourt so I can just reverse up, connect the hose and fill the car. The Gas hose at the pump is a thick rigid sort of hose like a hydraulic hose and because it is a screw connection I can connect it horizontally rather than vertically as you see in the first set of videos.

I have seen a few other E36's like below with the micro-filler attachment placed within the fuel cap but this was not done in my own conversion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Q8Mig3st_o

Kenny Logins

<Ollie> wrote: »

Not sure the cost per litre in Carrigtwohill.

It was €1.15 last time I checked.

The Pontiac

Kenny Logins wrote: »

It was €1.15 last time I checked.

That's a bit too dear, thought he might be around the 99c mark. Would just have to travel up to Tramore Road then.

Stinicker

<Ollie> wrote: »

That's a bit too dear, thought he might be around the 99c mark. Would just have to travel up to Tramore Road then.

You can get Gas in Togher in Cork for 79.9c/litre from Autogas Ireland. I have filled up there a few times when I'd be in the general vicinity.

The Pontiac

Stinicker wrote: »

You can get Gas in Togher in Cork for 79.9c/litre from Autogas Ireland. I have filled up there a few times when I'd be in the general vicinity.

Yeah I saw that linked yesterday and nearly fell off my chair when I saw the price. 99c is the norm it seems, but companies doing the conversions seem to be that 20% cheaper for gas, to attract new customers.

O'Callaghens in Ballyvolane also sell it, but not sure what they charge either.

sorel

Stinicker wrote: »

It dosen't really bother me to be honest, it is more awkward for filling yes but I am used to it now. The places I buy autogas always have the pump in a kind of out of the way location on the forecourt so I can just reverse up, connect the hose and fill the car. The Gas hose at the pump is a thick rigid sort of hose like a hydraulic hose and because it is a screw connection I can connect it horizontally rather than vertically as you see in the first set of videos.

I have seen a few other E36's like below with the micro-filler attachment placed within the fuel cap but this was not done in my own conversion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Q8Mig3st_o

I know, I know. the most important thing? - the car should run ... but what about comfort of using?.

Stinicker

sorel wrote: »

I know, I know. the most important thing? - the car should run ... but what about comfort of using?.

I find the whole thing well worthwhile for the financial savings to be gained. As for comfort the autogas makes little difference to the car and I still have the same boot thanks to the donut tank. I find it a great relief to have the car on gas as it is less of a financial burden now. I have only been running on lpg for the last three months but my annual mileage has increased 12% from 2011. It was the best thing I did with the car and I think I'll drive LPG cars for the rest of my days after this especially if it becomes more readily available around the country.

Mr Benevolent

Is there a point to LPG for cars below, say, 2L? I mean in terms of time to payback etc. I suppose if you are planning on keeping the car for a couple of years it's a no-brainer. Beginning to wonder if any car I buy should be converted to LPG, as there's a station about 7km away. €700 for a 4 pot conversion is very feckin' cheap.

Edit: Uh, how about a Saab 95 2.3T Aero HOT on LPG?

Stinicker

Stinicker wrote: »

If the Government were to give a tax guarantee on the fuel and some sort of incentive to the big players then the industry would blossom and create a few thousand jobs also.

Not going to happen. They want electric cars and the ESB have already invested heavily in chargers and then the E.U have given 1 million or something to install a lot more fast chargers meaning they by 2015 you will be able to get anywhere on the Island by electric and it's also much cheaper than LPG to run.

So the shorter range of electrics won't be a problem with 30 min absolute max charge time. Most charges will be 20 mins or less.

Electrification of transport will create a lot more jobs, especially when they start using spent batteries for storage.

LPG would have been great if people converted years ago. I still believe it has potential for commercial vehicles as I would very much like to see Diesel banned as environmentally it's far worse than LPG.

Mr Benevolent

Deleted User wrote: »

Not going to happen. They want electric cars and the ESB have already invested heavily in chargers and then the E.U have given 1 million or something to install a lot more fast chargers meaning they by 2015 you will be able to get anywhere on the Island by electric and it's also much cheaper than LPG to run.

So the shorter range of electrics won't be a problem with 30 min absolute max charge time. Most charges will be 20 mins or less.

Electrification of transport will create a lot more jobs, especially when they start using spent batteries for storage.

LPG would have been great if people converted years ago. I still believe it has potential for commercial vehicles as I would very much like to see Diesel banned as environmentally it's far worse than LPG.

But electric won't become really popular until there are a range of models and brands to choose from, not just two or three cars. Also, the secondhand market for electric cars is a big unknown. I would guess that LPG will become a good interim step between the two.

sorel

Confab wrote: »

But electric won't become really popular until there are a range of models and brands to choose from, not just two or three cars. Also, the secondhand market for electric cars is a big unknown. I would guess that LPG will become a good interim step between the two.

Prices of new electric are double of petrol car at the moment. If ESB pay half of that price maybe this sector stand up...

Stinicker

sorel wrote: »

Prices of new electric are double of petrol car at the moment. If ESB pay half of that price maybe this sector stand up...

Yeah and you can't convert your current Petrol car to electricity in a hurry for circa. €1000 either. Electricity produces c02 also and until Electric battery technology range improves then they are a waste of time. If I was to fill my LPG tank and my Petrol tank to top I'd have a range of 1,200km's / 750miles you can't even get 100kms on an electric car now without having to recharge which takes like 10hrs. You can refill a LPG & Petrol tank in 5 minutes.

CNG conversion using native natural gas would be alot sounder enviornmental option to get cars away from oil, old cars could be converted and it is better for the enviornment to drive a Hummer doing 5mpg on Petrol than a Prius or any of those electric cars due to the massive environmental effects of their production. The electrical car is subsidized by the Government and the ESB wheras the fledgling LPG industry could boom is only a small amount of subsidies were given and go over enmasse towards CNG.

The Pontiac

Just saw this Volvo S80 for sale on donedeal with the LPG conversion. Combined 34mpg, he says (or are they the official figures).

Going to keep an eye on it out of interest, just to see how difficult they are to sell on. I can't see why they should be. That's a serious 08 car and cheaper to run (34mpg @ 80c litre) than most 1.9 diesels of that year.

I'd love one of those S80's, but the preferably the 2.5T petrol 200bhp, and get the conversion.