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LPG Conversion

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    #32
    TheChizler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,446 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    galwaytt wrote: »
    ...how can there possibly be that much of a variance in the price if the same fuel? The margins can't be that big. Is someone misinterpreting Duty or something ?

    I was in the one on Tramore Road yesterday chatting to the co-owner. He was saying it's cheaper cause they base their business on the conversions which subsidises it, whereas the more expensive guys in the northside are just gas suppliers (they also sell Christmas trees :D).

    Getting a 07 Multipla converted for a grand soon, however Zurich apparently need a full report from an assessor before they'll put it on the insurance :(.


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    #33
    sambucus
    Registered Users Posts: 50 ✭✭sambucus


    123.ie has told me that as long as I have an existing policy with them and supply an engineers report then they will cover me after I get the conversion done. No extra cost on the premium.
    So have set my policy to start with them a few days before the car goes in will be losing five weeks of cover on my existing policy but the new premium is 40odd % cheaper. Volvo s60 2.0T


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    #34
    V480
    Closed Accounts Posts: 593 ✭✭✭V480


    TheChizler wrote: »
    I was in the one on Tramore Road yesterday chatting to the co-owner. He was saying it's cheaper cause they base their business on the conversions which subsidises it, whereas the more expensive guys in the northside are just gas suppliers (they also sell Christmas trees :D).

    Getting a 07 Multipla converted for a grand soon, however Zurich apparently need a full report from an assessor before they'll put it on the insurance :(.


    Let us know how you get on with that. Thinking of getting the same job done in the same place.


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    #35
    TheChizler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,446 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    V480 wrote: »
    Let us know how you get on with that. Thinking of getting the same job done in the same place.

    Will do! Any idea of the cost of an assessor's report? That's the one thing delaying us now.
    He had 7 cars' files, including a couple of newish beamers, lined up on the floor (they haven't got around to getting a filing cabinet yet!) and said it would be about 2 weeks to get through them, at most two days per car. They get tanks to order so a few days delivery. He showed us one he had just finished running, about 40 seconds on petrol to heat the engine and it automatically switched to LPG, the only notable change was a click from the engine bay as the injectors switched over, completely seamless! I was expecting a momentary loss of power but was pleasantly surprised. Yer man himself has been doing this for years in Poland and Belgium, and just moved over here. Thoroughly nice guy and knew his stuff.
    That car gets through €100 a week so looking forward to seeing the results!


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    #36
    TheChizler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,446 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    Just realized these guys have a website: www.autogasireland.ie


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    #37
    billim
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9 ✭billim


    have it in an opel astra 1.4,runs sweet and only 99cent a litre in tralee.


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    #38
    Our man in Havana
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,476 ✭✭✭✭Our man in Havana


    99 cents is not cheap at all. I found you are near the break even point in comparison to petrol at that level.


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    #39
    Matt Simis
    Registered Users Posts: 8,718 ✭✭✭Matt Simis


    Our man in Havana wrote: »
    99 cents is not cheap at all. I found you are near the break even point in comparison to petrol at that level.

    Thats very subjective to your numbers though.
    Depends on the MPG and mileage. Realistically, anything from 20% cheaper than petrol upwards it a net gain, payback is a matter of time. 99c a litre at 20mpg over 25,000 miles is vastly cheaper than 22mpg at 160c a litre, "near break even" isnt even a concern, the owner passed it within months.


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    #40
    Wicklowandy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 801 ✭✭✭Wicklowandy


    Someone said on the other lpg thread that he remembered cars in the 80s running on gas cylinders (sorry cant find the quote) doesn't sound right (cylinders are propane aren't they??) but if it was true, or lpg could be bottled in the same way, would that sort out supply issue?


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    #41
    Our man in Havana
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,476 ✭✭✭✭Our man in Havana


    If only it was that easy.

    Yes it is propane same as you buy for your cooker or gas heater. The LPG cars of yore had the same fixed cylinders that were filled by a pump. Nothing has changed since the 80's.


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    #42
    Wicklowandy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 801 ✭✭✭Wicklowandy


    Sorry for sounding stupid, but why isn't that easy if nothing has changed?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquefied_petroleum_gas

    I just read this, does auto lpg have additives?


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    #43
    The Pontiac
    Registered Users Posts: 3,417 ✭✭✭The Pontiac


    Am I missing something here? The difference in prices between diesel and petrol family saloons (in particular) is usually a few grand. This was the case when I was pricing 5 to 6 year old Saabs a few months back. There's some serious bargains to be had in family saloon petrol cars.

    So the money you'd save in buying the petrol car instead of the diesel, would surely cover the conversion cost? You then wouldn't have to worry about modern diesel problems - DMF, Particle filter, EGR valves etc. Or does the conversion have it's own set of problems?

    The biggest drawback is finding a stockist. The one mentioned above in Cork is close enough to me, and has got me seriously thinking..


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    #44
    The Pontiac
    Registered Users Posts: 3,417 ✭✭✭The Pontiac


    Just seen there's one in Carrigtwohill, 10 minutes drive from me. I'd normally avoid the place, but grand for a fill-up.

    Must do some more research. Any want to buy a Saab diesel?


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    #45
    Matt Simis
    Registered Users Posts: 8,718 ✭✭✭Matt Simis


    The conversion doesnt have its own problems (aside from yearly filter change) unless you have an engine that cannot tolerate the drier fuel (usually Jap or American/GM engines). In that case you need to either lubricate it inline with the LPG (via an auto lubrication injection system) or heavily lubricate the petrol and drive on it intermittently or similar.

    Euro engines generally dont have this concern at all.. its addressable anyhow.

    Aside from all this, people generally find less wear on the engine as the fuel is cleaner and combusts more completely (being a gas). Engine oil stays clean for long periods unlike Petrol and Diesel where it goes black in a matter of hours of usage.

    If you can get the fuel at a station/dealer or via home installed bulk tank, you are set.


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    #46
    The Pontiac
    Registered Users Posts: 3,417 ✭✭✭The Pontiac


    Cheer Matt, great info there. I have two stockists close-by. The place in Cork that does the conversion is selling it @ 79c per litre. Not sure the cost per litre in Carrigtwohill. I'd nearly always be in the city at least once a week anyway.

    Gutted I didn't come across this thread a few months ago.

    We'll surely see more stations starting to sell it.


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    #47
    sorel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 90 ✭✭sorel


    I found answers for many of my stupid questions here : http://www.lpgain.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=37&Itemid=103


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    #48
    Wicklowandy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 801 ✭✭✭Wicklowandy


    Wicklowandy wrote: »
    Someone said on the other lpg thread that he remembered cars in the 80s running on gas cylinders (sorry cant find the quote) doesn't sound right (cylinders are propane aren't they??) but if it was true, or lpg could be bottled in the same way, would that sort out supply issue?

    Sorry to ask this again, but is this possible?


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    #49
    zilvinasb
    Registered Users Posts: 17 ✭zilvinasb


    LPG Conversions are very popular in eastern europe. Comparing the prices of fuel and gas, it is worth going LPG. But do some calculations first. It will cost you around 1000 eur to convert to LPG, so when is it going to start paying back? Good luck.


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    #50
    sorel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 90 ✭✭sorel


    Wicklowandy wrote: »
    Sorry to ask this again, but is this possible?

    U can use cylinder and it's still possible, if you mount a good fitting of course. The question is : price LPG in cylinder from SPAR for example???. 11kg bottle of LPG is around 20 liters. It'll cost you €30...


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    #51
    Our man in Havana
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,476 ✭✭✭✭Our man in Havana


    Also it would not be legal or pass any safety inspections.


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    #52
    Wicklowandy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 801 ✭✭✭Wicklowandy


    Is there a big cost in filling the cylinders? Surely theres room for an lpg distributor to really sell a lot of these cylinders if it was adopted as a way to bypass the supply issues. Dont think a lot of people use super sers in ireland anymore?

    Edit: ah ok, fair enough if theres a safety issue. I just think it would remove the need for the massive investment that probably wont happen to build a supply network.


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    #53
    zilvinasb
    Registered Users Posts: 17 ✭zilvinasb


    sorel wrote: »
    U can use cylinder and it's still possible, if you mount a good fitting of course. The question is : price LPG in cylinder from SPAR for example???. 11kg bottle of LPG is around 20 liters. It'll cost you €30...

    Jesus.. Nobody does that.Well, maybe in Russia or Lithuania, people that cannot afford it or they don't care about safety.But still, they only use them as a tank, they don't reconnect them at any stage. That's the first time i ever heard, that someone buys gas cylinders in spar and puts them into their car.

    There are specific cylinders that are fitted into cars, and they are refilled from outside of the car usually at the bottom of the back bumper.


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    #54
    sorel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 90 ✭✭sorel


    zilvinasb wrote: »
    LPG Conversions are very popular in eastern europe. Comparing the prices of fuel and gas, it is worth going LPG. But do some calculations first. It will cost you around 1000 eur to convert to LPG, so when is it going to start paying back? Good luck.

    why people buy new cars?. Due to lower TAX?.Maybe...New car newer pay back. New diesel?. Much more expensive than petrol engine. question : when expensive diesel start paying back?. answer : buy much cheaper petrol car for savings convert to autogas and rest spend for LPG - a year of running...


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    #55
    sorel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 90 ✭✭sorel


    zilvinasb wrote: »
    Jesus.. Nobody does that.Well, maybe in Russia or Lithuania, people that cannot afford it or they don't care about safety.But still, they only use them as a tank, they don't reconnect them at any stage. That's the first time i ever heard, that someone buys gas cylinders in spar and puts them into their car.

    There are specific cylinders that are fitted into cars, and they are refilled from outside of the car usually at the bottom of the back bumper.

    that's stupid alternative only...


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    #56
    zilvinasb
    Registered Users Posts: 17 ✭zilvinasb


    sorel wrote: »
    why people buy new cars?. Due to lower TAX?.Maybe...New car newer pay back. New diesel?. Much more expensive than petrol engine. question : when expensive diesel start paying back?. answer : buy much cheaper petrol car for savings convert to autogas and rest spend for LPG - a year of running...


    There are a lot of reasons to buy new car, in fact to many to list.

    If I could afford buying a new car, I would buy it straight away.


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    #57
    sorel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 90 ✭✭sorel


    zilvinasb wrote: »
    There are a lot of reasons to buy new car, in fact to many to list.

    If I could afford buying a new car, I would buy it straight away.

    if you have €25K only,will you spend everything to buy new diesel or €20k for petrol car?.


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    #58
    Wicklowandy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 801 ✭✭✭Wicklowandy


    sorel wrote: »
    that's stupid alternative only...

    Why is any question stupid? Theres no lpg station anywhere near me, and as i see it the big problem with lpg is the supply and id be surprised if any of the suppliers and retailers are going to invest in a network.

    The reason i asked the question is i didnt know the answer and now i know the answer, i know the problems with it. Thanks.


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    #59
    zilvinasb
    Registered Users Posts: 17 ✭zilvinasb


    sorel wrote: »
    if you have €25K only,will you spend everything to buy new diesel or €20k for petrol car?.


    I personally would buy Diesel. Modern diesels has spectacular power, very economical, and less hassle going through process of refilling the tank. I have experience refilling a gas on the car, it is not a pleasant job to do.


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    #60
    The Pontiac
    Registered Users Posts: 3,417 ✭✭✭The Pontiac


    zilvinasb wrote: »
    LPG Conversions are very popular in eastern europe. Comparing the prices of fuel and gas, it is worth going LPG. But do some calculations first. It will cost you around 1000 eur to convert to LPG, so when is it going to start paying back? Good luck.

    I was just pricing a few petrol 06 and 07 Volvos (S80 & S60). They're stupidly cheap, easily a few grand cheaper than the diesel equivalent. Probably the same goes for the Audi A6 or the BMW 5 Series for example.

    So surely it makes more sense to buy the petrol and get the conversion? You're effectively running the car at diesel costs as LPG is 50% cheaper (even more in Cork city @79c per litre).

    And modern diesels are turning into a pain in the arse. Everyday we have posters here asking the price of a dual mass flywheel.

    This looks like the ideal solution to me, at least until the new-wave ecoboost petrol engines evolve over the next decade or so.


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    #61
    sorel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 90 ✭✭sorel


    Wicklowandy wrote: »
    Why is any question stupid? Theres no lpg station anywhere near me, and as i see it the big problem with lpg is the supply and id be surprised if any of the suppliers and retailers are going to invest in a network.

    The reason i asked the question is i didnt know the answer and now i know the answer, i know the problems with it. Thanks.
    the alternative is stupid because of price. same lpg in cylinder €1.50 and pump price 0.79
    no point to pay 1.50 for lpg when petrol price 1.60


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