Floyd Mayweather Vs Miguel Cotto

Dan_Solo

However, posters to internet chat boards who are on drugs are obviously at a massive disadvantage.

insanity50

Brendan it's ridiuclous of you to say that Floyd should just fight Manny even if he is on drugs.

Yeah Mayweather would beat him regardless, but why should there not be a level playing field.

The NSAC drug testing is a joke. Anyone who follows MMA (I know Paul does, will know this, especially with regards the recent Overeem situation.)

These fighters can juice all they want and once they cycle it out of their body a few days before the fight they'll piss clean.

Floyd would make Manny look stupid.

At this moment in boxing only two guys sell PPV. Manny and Floyd.

If Manny loses to Floyd, Bob Arum loses a big stream of income.

If Floyd takes 50-50 split, he makes less money than he would make by fighting someone else and getting a bigger split; Similarly if Manny gets 50-50 he makes more in one fight than he's made in all his previous fights put together.

Why should Floyd give 50-50 when 90% of pacquiaos shre will be straight into Bob Arum's pocket?

The thing is though, outside of pacquaio, options are skimp for Floyd - Berto/Ortiz winner, Khan, Alvarez or Pacquiao. Don't think Martinez is a realistic option.

Dublin Red Devil

insanity50 wrote: »

Brendan it's ridiuclous of you to say that Floyd should just fight Manny even if he is on drugs.

Yeah Mayweather would beat him regardless, but why should there not be a level playing field.

The NSAC drug testing is a joke. Anyone who follows MMA (I know Paul does, will know this, especially with regards the recent Overeem situation.)

These fighters can juice all they want and once they cycle it out of their body a few days before the fight they'll piss clean.

Floyd would make Manny look stupid.

At this moment in boxing only two guys sell PPV. Manny and Floyd.

If Manny loses to Floyd, Bob Arum loses a big stream of income.

If Floyd takes 50-50 split, he makes less money than he would make by fighting someone else and getting a bigger split; Similarly if Manny gets 50-50 he makes more in one fight than he's made in all his previous fights put together.

Why should Floyd give 50-50 when 90% of pacquiaos shre will be straight into Bob Arum's pocket?

The thing is though, outside of pacquaio, options are skimp for Floyd - Berto/Ortiz winner, Khan, Alvarez or Pacquiao. Don't think Martinez is a realistic option.

Don't be stupid, Floyd is dead right to be making sure Pacquaio is not on drugs for their fight. If Floyd gets in the ring with a fighter on drugs, He is risking his life, Pacquaio was so wired on steroids against Coto. They showed the clip back of Coto hitting Pac with a straight right to the face and Manny didn't even blink, He walked through it, That's how high he was, so much that the didn't even know he had been hit.

walshb

Dublin Red Devil wrote: »

any fighter on drugs llike pacquaio will have a massive advantage over any opponent

Except an old and past his best Juan Manuel Marquez?

insanity50

Dublin Red Devil wrote: »

Don't be stupid, Floyd is dead right to be making sure Pacquaio is not on drugs for their fight. If Floyd gets in the ring with a fighter on drugs, He is risking his life, Pacquaio was so wired on steroids against Coto. They showed the clip back of Coto hitting Pac with a straight right to the face and Manny didn't even blink, He walked through it, That's how high he was, so much that the didn't even know he had been hit.

Did you even read my post?

Jesus I get accused of acting the bollox around here but that above post is really taking the mick.

When did you start watching boxing do you mind me asking?
And why have mommy and daddy given you unsupervised access to the internet? Very impressed that such a young child is so computer literate.

zindicato

all of this talk that manny would beat floyd easily or vice versa are all hypothesis or expectations of '' fans'' based on what they think is thier expert opinion.... we dont know really what will happen when they face off.

regarding drug testing and demands since when is one individual bigger than the sport itself i am a fan of both guys but floyds demands are getting ridiculous really is there any other boxer in the past or present who has requested so much stuff to be conceeded to him for a fight negotiation.

regarding drug tests both guys were using the same test's before and floyd didnt have any problem doing the same procedures till pacquiao came knocking.

So unless Pacquiao gets a positive result then all of us could just belive in what we think is true that he is doping or not but as they say a person is not guilty till proven.

In fairness to floyd because of what he is asking, and doing he is keeping boxing in peoples mind;-)

insanity50

Pacquiao needs to stop working for Bob and stop eating them steroids and then the floyd fight will happen.

walshb

zindicato wrote: »

regarding drug tests both guys were using the same test's before and floyd didnt have any problem doing the same procedures till pacquiao came knocking.
;-)

That is what I have said. Nobody was suspecting Manny at all until folks start thinking that he could be a real threat to Floyd at 147 lbs. Floyd must have thought this too. Floyd comes out with OSDT and folks are hurling doping accustaions at Manny.

I know of no other fighter ever to introduce such demands. There is testing out there as it is. It's not to Floyd's liking, but it was when Floyd was meeting Gatti and Judah and Hatton, for example.

It has to be down to some fear of losing. I don't think he loses, he must!

zindicato

insanity50 wrote: »

Pacquiao needs to stop working for Bob and stop eating them steroids and then the floyd fight will happen.

:rolleyes:

walshb

BTW, isn't there rules on posters throwing around these accusations, mods?

babymanval

I dunno, I guess I'm a self-professed Manny "fanboy", but in fairness there's plenty of reason to be. For me, he's just so so different to anyone that Floyd has fought before, and better. It's the angles/speed for me more than anythin, almost like an Anderson Silva in UFC. It's like watching different sport sometimes when watching Manny.

I guess heartwise I would want a Manny win if it ever happened, and could see how he would be well capable. Sense tells me Floyd would take a close points win (he's obviously not gonna try to stop the most dangerous fighter he would have ever faced). Pac's stronger (arguably faster) than Mosley, who had Floyd's legs wobbly for at least a short time.

Floyd reasonably probably only beat Cotto by 4 or 5 rounds depending on who you listen to. Manny pulped Cotto. Yeah styles make fights, and the same logic can be applied to Mayweather/Marquez (forget weight issues), but there's logic in there somewhere, regardless of the argument that Cotto eventually parked in front of Manny and paid for it (I personally think he's smarter than that, I just think Manny deconstructed him by way of his own adaptabilities).

The fight will never happen though. It's not about anything other than preserving the "0" at this stage. He's not THAT much bigger a draw than Manny so as to warrant the ridiculous "I don't need you, you need me" posturing.

I may be wrong with my figures, I know Walshb broke it down earlier in the thread, but even recently:

Manny does 1.4 million ppv against Marquez (Marquez!)
Floyd does 1.5 million ppv against Cotto (Cotto! On a south american holiday, albeit Mexican)

Manny does 1.2 against Mosley (Mosley! Shot fighter.)
Mayweather/Ortiz 1.2

It's not 2007, and Oscar De La Hoya isn't gonna fight Floyd again to bump his average anytime soon. I just think the ppv argument is ridiculous, and wafer thin. If Floyd has an edge (which he does), it's no more than what, 10%? And he absolutely doesn't have the edge to warrant the posturing he carries on with, or demand the entire ppv revenue after a flat fee to Manny. It's basically ensuring the fight doesn't happen.

But now it seems it's about the "test" again. A test that was first discussed by Mayweather's crackhead father. Is that the authority here? It's all a farce to be fair. It comes down to the fighters in these decisions, no one else, Arum or otherwise. It's fairly telling when a fighter who's sole concern in life is riches, isn't willing to make the biggest payday of his career by a mile happen, possibly even 2 or 3 times. Maybe $150 million is too low a price for Floyd to be most likely, at least once in a multi-fight, exposed.

walshb

That really was an accurate and solid post. From purely a neutral view I think you nailed it.

The PPV purse split should be criticised by all; Manny and Floyd fans. It's shambolic. Neither man is the biggest in terms of PPV. They are both global, and no research will show otherwise. I detailed a lot of the PPV and they are pretty much identical. Floyd ahead here, Manny ahead there, almost dead even. Floyd is the one throwing in the PPV obstacle, not Manny. If Manny did, same applies, he should get criticised.

Both men would make record PPV sales if they met each other. Neither would make as much by meeting a different foe. So, put an end to this "I desereve more" crap. It's pathetic.

And I know Floyd likes money but he's always spouting about how generous he is etc, so, why the need to be so so greedy? It doesn't add up. 40-50-60-70 million dollars, when is enough enough? I can only come to the conclusion that he really doesn't want the fight. The drugs, the PPV purse?

colly10

Dublin Red Devil wrote: »

They showed the clip back of Coto hitting Pac with a straight right to the face and Manny didn't even blink, He walked through it, That's how high he was, so much that the didn't even know he had been hit.

That mother****er is on the A-side meth, that's what the **** he's on, he on that or he on something else.
The A-side meth is what they used to have 500 years ago. Remember when the Philippines were fighting the US soldiers? They were shooting them mother****ers with 45s. And 45s were bouncing off their mother****ing ass. They weren't even dying!

Dan_Solo

Dublin Red Devil wrote: »

They showed the clip back of Coto hitting Pac with a straight right to the face and Manny didn't even blink, He walked through it, That's how high he was, so much that the didn't even know he had been hit.

Hey, who needs blood/urine tests when you can tell who's doped from just watching them.
I don't even think Pac would beat PBF, but I still think PBF is ducking for his own reasons. PBF should really have his license looked at if he's claiming other boxers are juiced and the boards don't know/care about it.
Didn't see him asking washed up bums like Cotto for an independently handled blood and urine test every day for a month before their fight. Wonder why...

cowzerp

walshb wrote: »

That is what I have said. Nobody was suspecting Manny at all until folks start thinking that he could be a real threat to Floyd at 147 lbs. Floyd must have thought this too. Floyd comes out with OSDT and folks are hurling doping accustaions at Manny.

I know of no other fighter ever to introduce such demands. There is testing out there as it is. It's not to Floyd's liking, but it was when Floyd was meeting Gatti and Judah and Hatton, for example.

It has to be down to some fear of losing. I don't think he loses, he must!

1st off, I've suspected him well before floyd mentioned it, secondly it's slanderous to accuse without proof so lads let's end it now, I will start getting strict on this as it is not on.

Have your suspicions all you want but innocent till proven guilty.

Now with that said pro boxing testing is pathetic to say the least, floyd is tight but where he is wrong it should be across the board, all should be tested to these high standards.

insanity50

cowzerp wrote: »

1st off, I've suspected him well before floyd mentioned it, secondly it's slanderous to accuse without proof so lads let's end it now, I will start getting strict on this as it is not on.

Have your suspicions all you want but innocent till proven guilty.

Now with that said pro boxing testing is pathetic to say the least, floyd is tight but where he is wrong it should be across the board, all should be tested to these high standards.

Fair enough Paul. I was guilty of the above myself so I apologise and will keep my suspicions to myself from now on.

Henno30

Much of the responsibility for the Pacquiao-steroids smear lies with Floyd Sr. He did his level best to make himself the centre of attention for the Hatton-Pacquiao fight, a habit that Floyd Jr himself pointed to as the main reason he couldn't work with him anymore. Freddie Roach brings this point up during this 24/7 extra before that fight:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okdT5Eef-pc

Floyd Sr set the Hatton-Pacquiao fight up as direct showdown between him and Freddie Roach, referring to Freddie as 'Joke-Coach-Roach', 'Cockroach' etc. When Manny destroyed Hatton, it was a humiliation and a massive blow to Floyd Sr's ego. And wouldn't you know it, in the months following that fight he starts spreading the doping allegations.

At the time he was ridiculed for it, but you know what they say about repeating a lie often enough.

Spazdarn

insanity50 wrote: »

If Floyd takes 50-50 split, he makes less money than he would make by fighting someone else and getting a bigger split; Similarly if Manny gets 50-50 he makes more in one fight than he's made in all his previous fights put together.

Nonsense.

If Floyd takes 50-50 of a fight where he's offered Manny 40m (with no ppv) he still makes more money than he did against Cotto 33m (with ppv).

Added to the fact the Floyd and Manny fight is the biggest fight in boxing, the guarantees would likely be much higher.

So he would most definitely not be getting less money than his previous fights.

walshb

ToiletFusion wrote: »

Nonsense.

If Floyd takes 50-50 of a fight where he's offered Manny 40m (with no ppv) he still makes more money than he did against Cotto 33m (with ppv).

Added to the fact the Floyd and Manny fight is the biggest fight in boxing, the guarantees would likely be much higher.

So he would most definitely not be getting less money than his previous fights.

This PPV obstacle is absurd. Folks defending it is also absurd. "Oh, he will make X amount this way and that way."

Simple: 50/50 should make both men a ridiculous amount of money. I would bet 50 plus millions. I do not believe Floyd is that greedy.

But, it is one of three things: A: He is literally a very greedy man and wants more and more and more; B: His ego is that big that the thoughts of 50/50 with anyone, (even a global superstar like Manny, who will guarantee this bout is massive), makes him ill; or C: He fears a loss and is using PPV as an abstacle.

Dan_Solo

Either it's:
A) The money isn't enough for the risk.
or
He thinks he'll lose to Pac at his current level (Pac currently being doped or not)

Either one makes this a duck.

cowzerp

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Either it's:
A) The money isn't enough for the risk.
or
He thinks he'll lose to Pac at his current level (Pac currently being doped or not)

Either one makes this a duck.

Arum wants no part of this lads, untill he wants in forget about it-arum wants to keep picking fighters that he thinks manny would beat.

Mayweather is far superior to manny, to suggest he's scared of him is ludicrous

Dan_Solo

cowzerp wrote: »

Arum wants no part of this lads, untill he wants in forget about it-arum wants to keep picking fighters that he thinks manny would beat.

Mayweather is far superior to manny, to suggest he's scared of him is ludicrous

And PBF wants to keep picking fighter he knows he'll beat.
Works both ways.
Scared or no scared PBF's doing the ducking. He could just not fight him instead of making up some cock n bull doping nonsense.

walshb

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Either it's:
A) The money isn't enough for the risk.
or
He thinks he'll lose to Pac at his current level (Pac currently being doped or not)

Either one makes this a duck.

And only to an extremely greedy man could A be the pick. 50 plus million dollars; risk should not even come into it.

cowzerp

Dan_Solo wrote: »

And PBF wants to keep picking fighter he knows he'll beat.
Works both ways.
Scared or no scared PBF's doing the ducking. He could just not fight him instead of making up some cock n bull doping nonsense.

Manny/Arum/Roach are at least 50% the dodgers here-Floyd called Manny out straight after his fight, haven't heard a dickie bird back from Mannys camp, This fight would have happened if Manny had tool the blood tests, his suggestion that 1. He was afraid of them and 2. That it would weaken him where cop outs.

Either way, Pbf is far far superior and most believe that, Mannys team don't care once he keeps making money.

walshb wrote: »

And only to an extremely greedy man could A be the pick. 50 plus million dollars; risk should not even come into it.

Seriously Bren, do you really believe floyd thinks Manny could beat him?

No way does he.

Dan_Solo

cowzerp wrote: »

Manny/Arum/Roach are at least 50% the dodgers here-Floyd called Manny out straight after his fight, haven't heard a dickie bird back from Mannys camp, This fight would have happened if Manny had tool the blood tests, his suggestion that 1. He was afraid of them and 2. That it would weaken him where cop outs.

OMG, don't tell me you take that post-fight press stuff seriously, do you? How many times have we heard about rematches, next opponents etc and it was all waffle?
The fight would have happened if Manny took the blood tests that PBF decided Manny and only Manny, a man never done for drugs, needed to take. This is pBF ducking. He's changed the rules jeopardising the fight, not Pac.
Strange how he's never asked any other fighter, you know, the ones, he knows he'll beat handily, to do this. How come?
I still think it is a blatant accusation that Pac is doped. PBF should be up before the board for it.

Dan_Solo

cowzerp wrote: »

Seriously Bren, do you really believe floyd thinks Manny could beat him?

Yeah, well obviously. All he had to do was not change the rules and the fight would have happened.
Who changed the rules? Floyd.

walshb

cowzerp wrote: »

.
Seriously Bren, do you really believe floyd thinks Manny could beat him?

No way does he.

Well then why the test insistence and the PPV obstacles? He must think Manny has something special that could upset him. Only Floyd knows, but Manny is the only foe that Floyd has ever asked this of.

Yes, he had tests for Mosley etc, but he had to do that then after insinuating that Manny was doping. I think Floyd wins, and wins without too much doubt. He will work for the win, but he's too good I feel.

When one studies and looks into it I think it's a fair conclusion to come to, that Floyd fears a loss. Not sating it's right, but us fans we only have a certain amount of info to go on.

Dusty87

i wish manny would just do a test. If he's clean, great! It would should floyd's mouth. Wave it in his face. But there will still be the obstacle of money. Ball is still in floyd's court. I think floyd would win on a points unanimous decision, but there has to be something in floyd's mind thats its too risky.

walshb

Dusty87 wrote: »

i wish manny would just do a test. If he's clean, great! It would should floyd's mouth. Wave it in his face. But there will still be the obstacle of money. Ball is still in floyd's court. I think floyd would win on a points unanimous decision, but there has to be something in floyd's mind thats its too risky.

I think if Manny did the test and offered the fight for free Floyd would come up with another excuse. Sorry, but to me, both demands he has made so far are pathetic.

Dusty87

walshb wrote: »

I think if Manny did the test and offered the fight for free Floyd would come up with another excuse. Sorry, but to me, both demands he has made so far are pathetic.

Thats what im saying walsh. Floyd has a backup plan. If manny passes the test, the ball is still in floyd's court with the money. I do think if floyd wants to be remembered as the best he needs to fight manny. In 30 years time the is floyd the goat arguement will still involve that he never fought manny. As i said i do think he'll win but he isnt askin for tests and the money for no reason. Fight manny, win or lose he can retire as one of the best. Dont fight him and it will always be over his shoulders.