Floyd Mayweather Vs Miguel Cotto

walshb

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

I was just watching Mayweather vs Gatti 2005 on Eurosport. Can't get over how fast he was. He's clearly slower now even if he was lighter back then. Would love to see Mayweather 05 vs Pacquoia 08.

Yes, he is slower, but to be expected. Lighter, younger and fresher back then. I still think he is razor sharp today at 35 against those in the division. He's a natural, and will always have that speed and reflex advantage, even over the younger pups. But, no, he is not as fast or sharp today as he was several years ago.

walshb

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

I was just watching Mayweather vs Gatti 2005 on Eurosport. Can't get over how fast he was. He's clearly slower now even if he was lighter back then. Would love to see Mayweather 05 vs Pacquoia 08.

I wouldn't pick too many people with confidence to beat PBF at 140 lbs thru any era.

Oscar, Mosley, Chavez, Pryor, Whitaker, Mel Taylor, Manny spring to mind, though I would make Floyd a slight favourite in all matches.

Spazdarn

Maravilla33 wrote: »

Have you got any proof that Mayweather was actively ducking him? Firstly I don't know how anyone would know this and secondly I don't see when they should have fought? Williams first came to prominence in 2007 when he beat Margarito. That year Mayweather fought OLDH and Ricky Hatton. Two huge PPV fights against well known fighters. 2 Months after Mayweather beat Hatton, Williams loses to the average Quintana and then is tied up with a rematch. Mayweather retires. Williams beats Quintana and moves up to Light middle/middle and doesn't fight at WW again.

As you say Williams isn't exactly well known and a fight wouldn't exactly have made sense for Floyd. Of course I think a fight between the 2 may have been interesting but I'd still back Floyd to win. Williams is tall and rangy but doesn't fight like a big fighter or use his physical advantages properly. As you said he's no defence. A fighter with his size and reach should be near impossible to hit. If he boxed behind his jab he'd be a tough night for anyone at welter. Also I cant really see a guy who is outboxed by Quintana and easily by Lara who are both similar in height and reach to Mayweather being a worry for PBF. Its up to someone like Williams to put a bit of a run together, make a name for himself and earn a shot against Mayweather instead of crying that he won't fight him. I think it would have been a good fight but I'd hardly say Mayweather ducked him as you say.

Well you can only call most of it speculation but he was calling him out constantly for about 2 years, culminating famously in "Floyd won't fight me because I don't have a vagina"

Williams was calling him out in 2009 and 2010 anyways. Floyd has never commented on Williams once to my knowledge, which for someone with usually a lot to say, it's unusual.

When Williams moved up he stated that he was still well able to make 147 but no one would fight him thus the reason why he moved up. He stated he'd gladly go back down if the right fights were available.

Oh I don't think Floyd struggles with Williams either. At one stage alright I thought, long rangey fight fighter, volume puncher and southpaw to boot, those things could give Floyd problems, but it started to decline fairly badly and Martinez knocked him out. His lack of defence never seemed to bother him because he was outworking most guys. If he had a great jab he'd give anyone in those divisions nightmares, but he never uses it.

Maravilla33

ToiletFusion wrote: »

Well you can only call most of it speculation but he was calling him out constantly for about 2 years, culminating famously in "Floyd won't fight me because I don't have a vagina"

Williams was calling him out in 2009 and 2010 anyways. Floyd has never commented on Williams once to my knowledge, which for someone with usually a lot to say, it's unusual.

When Williams moved up he stated that he was still well able to make 147 but no one would fight him thus the reason why he moved up. He stated he'd gladly go back down if the right fights were available.

Oh I don't think Floyd struggles with Williams either. At one stage alright I thought, long rangey fight fighter, volume puncher and southpaw to boot, those things could give Floyd problems, but it started to decline fairly badly and Martinez knocked him out. His lack of defence never seemed to bother him because he was outworking most guys. If he had a great jab he'd give anyone in those divisions nightmares, but he never uses it.

Thats fair enough. Just a bit sick of hearing people on other forums harping on about x ducking y and z is a bum because he's been avoiding x for years etc. (I don't mean you) You have a bit of an argument at least.

The bit in bold is interesting though. Still wouldn't say Mayweather ducked him though.

Spazdarn

Maravilla33 wrote: »

Thats fair enough. Just a bit sick of hearing people on other forums harping on about x ducking y and z is a bum because he's been avoiding x for years etc. (I don't mean you) You have a bit of an argument at least.

The bit in bold is interesting though. Still wouldn't say Mayweather ducked him though.

The term ducked gets thrown around a lot, thing is it's not just about one guy being afraid to fight another guy.

For Mayweather, it's a balancing act, he's looking for a (relatively) competitive fight, but his opponent's got to bring a fanbase, interest and importantly money.

Paul Williams may have ticked a lot of the boxes but he brought (at the time) a relatively high risk awkward fight with very little reward financially.

Just because x calls you out doesn't mean you're ducking him, but at the time Paul Williams was ranked within the top 5 ppv boxers so he definitely should have been a consideration.

insanity50

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTdqV8XkYNo

Mayweather - “Cotto ain’t ready to die; I’m ready to die on May 5th.”

insanity50

have you watched this video lads, makes me laugh so much. floyd is the king

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y31Xq5tzbLM

megadodge

Yet again the pr!ck contradicts himself.

You quote "Mayweather - “Cotto ain’t ready to die; I’m ready to die on May 5th.” in one post.

Then you post a video in the following post where Floyd is defending not fighting Pacquiao by saying "...my health is more important to me than any money".

You're just making it too easy.

cowzerp

Mega, either eay floyd v manny would not be competitive-Floyd would lay down a beating on manny and arum knows it-manny cant handle boxers and certainly not the best of a generation.

I hope this fight happens just to show the gulf in class.

walshb

If only Floyd had the balls of a Cotto, JMM, Clottey, Mosley, Margarito, Hatton etc. They all got in the ring and fought Manny. Juice or not, Floyd, take the fight!

andrew241983

walshb wrote: »

If only Floyd had the balls of a Cotto, JMM, Clottey, Mosley, Margarito, Hatton etc. They all got in the ring and fought Manny. Juice or not, Floyd, take the fight!

what a stupid comment..(juice or not) he wants a level playing field manny is nothing but a steroid head and has been outed by fellow boxers..and even with it he was beaten by marquez and got a dodgy points win...mayweather will school him when or if they fight best fighter of my generation ...never even been put to the floor.. **** manny the juice head...

walshb

andrew241983 wrote: »

what a stupid comment..(juice or not) he wants a level playing field manny is nothing but a steroid head and has been outed by fellow boxers..and even with it he was beaten by marquez and got a dodgy points win...mayweather will school him when or if they fight best fighter of my generation ...never even been put to the floor.. **** manny the juice head...

Well, Larry Holmes and Barry McGuigan both said the same thing. Seriously, if Floyd is so good and superior, juice or not he will prevail. I think he's too good for Manny 9/10 times right now.

And, since when is Manny a juice head? Pre Mayweather trash talk where did anyone accuse or suspect Manny of doping?

Also, how many tests has he failed? The tests are just obstacles, just like the purse split is an obstacle.

andrew241983

walshb wrote: »

andrew241983 wrote: »

what a stupid comment..(juice or not) he wants a level playing field manny is nothing but a steroid head and has been outed by fellow boxers..and even with it he was beaten by marquez and got a dodgy points win...mayweather will school him when or if they fight best fighter of my generation ...never even been put to the floor.. **** manny the juice head...

Well, Larry Holmes and Barry McGuigan both said the same thing. Seriously, if Floyd is so good and superior, juice or not he will prevail. I think he's too good for Manny 9/10 times right now.

And, since when is Manny a juice head? Pre Mayweather trash talk where did anyone accuse or suspect Manny of doping?

Mate its been touted around for years just weather wasn't afraid to say it coz lets face it boxing is the most corrupt sport around ..i agree juice or not Floyd will outclass many the slugger but why give him a leg up

walshb

andrew241983 wrote: »

and even with it he was beaten by marquez and got a dodgy points win.....

There you go. If JMM can "beat" him juiced, in your view, what the **** is Floyd worried about? Not so stupid at all.

walshb

andrew241983 wrote: »

Mate its been touted around for years just weather wasn't afraid to say it coz lets face it boxing is the most corrupt sport around ..i agree juice or not Floyd will outclass many the slugger but why give him a leg up

For years? So, let's see it? Was he on the juice when Morales beat him?

Henno30

Why does Mayweather attract such utterly moronic fans?

kryogen

Henno30 wrote: »

Why does Mayweather attract such utterly moronic fans?

I think its to do with the outward impression he gives of himself tbh

walshb

Henno30 wrote: »

Why does Mayweather attract such utterly moronic fans?

I am not sure why any fighter attracts such adulation. I have no issue with the adulation, but it's the ridiculous sensitivity that is with it. The slighest perceived negative comment about their man and they're jumping on it, and not even willing to civilly and maturely discuss or refute the negativity.

I much prefer to be open when discussing a fighter. Praise and criticism can work together to give a fair assessment of a fighter.

Spazdarn

A large proportion of them are teenagers so they're already muppets and they're only mildly casual fans, so the only thing they really know is Mayweather.

Dublin Red Devil

Mayweather is without doubt the best P4P boxer of his generation. Pacquaio would not stand a chance in the ring against Floyd. He uses that defensive stance, Boxing behind the shoulder. It's a style he has perfected and it's unstoppable

Hate his personalty, his attitude all you want but you can't deny, The man is brilliant fighter

Dan_Solo

Everybody who's saying Pac "has no hope" etc against PBF has obviously only seen their last two fights and made up their mind on that.

Dublin Red Devil

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Everybody who's saying Pac "has no hope" etc against PBF has obviously only seen their last two fights and made up their mind on that.

Not really Pacquaio clearly lost to Marquez twice. Arguably 3 times, Somebody who Mayweather took apart with ease. Also fighting De la Hoya, Mosley and Cotto who were either past thir prime of drained the catch weight.just sugarcoats Mannys false record

zindicato

Dublin Red Devil wrote: »

Not really Pacquaio clearly lost to Marquez twice. Arguably 3 times, Somebody who Mayweather took apart with ease. Also fighting De la Hoya, Mosley and Cotto who were either past thir prime of drained the catch weight.just sugarcoats Mannys false record

did mayweather make weight for that marquez fight?:rolleyes: with regards to cotto it can be said also that he is fighting a way past his prime fighter.... nobody can say a fighter is way past his prime it is only the fighters themeselves who can decide on how or what they feel that fight day... ex goerge foreman he was way too old so he could be considered past his prime if based on fans take when he won his last championship belt years ago yet he proved people wrong.

walshb

Dublin Red Devil wrote: »

Not really Pacquaio clearly lost to Marquez twice. Arguably 3 times, Somebody who Mayweather took apart with ease. Also fighting De la Hoya, Mosley and Cotto who were either past thir prime of drained the catch weight.just sugarcoats Mannys false record

The Cotto weight has been done to death. I didn't agree with it, but it was 1-2 lbs, and I know every ounce can make a difference. Cotto is not beating Manny or Floyd, ever. So, really it's a moot point. Manny beats Cotto at 147-150-154, yesterday, now and tomorrow.

Even watching the Cotto-Manny fight did anyone really see Cotto struggling? I mean, for 4 rds he was in the fight, and then he got walloped badly and Manny upped the game and stopped him. That was more to do with Manny than 1-2 lbs.

Manny then gave away a hell of a lot of size and weight to Margaritio and detroyed the man, as I predicted.

Manny did not clearly lose to JMM. All three fights were close, and no way can anyone say fight 1 was Juan's. He got back into it, made it competitive, but didn't win it. That fight was more a Manny win than the other two. But, the other two were pretty close.

walshb

zindicato wrote: »

did mayweather make weight for that marquez fight?:.

I was thinking the exact same thing a few days ago and then forgot about it.

There needs to be fairness applied to both Manny and Floyd. People are on here slating Manny for asking Cotto to come in at 145 lbs, and conveniently see no real issue with the Floyd-JMM affair.

Dan_Solo

Dublin Red Devil wrote: »

Not really Pacquaio clearly lost to Marquez twice. Arguably 3 times

Arguably no times.

Henno30

Cotto weighed in at 146 for the Clottey fight, so 145 was an unforgivable draining? Agree with walshb on the Mayweather-Marquez weight issue as well, it's hardly ever mentioned.

I think Manny lost to JMM all three times by the way, even if they were close defeats. I think this clearly has implications for a fight with Mayweather but those implications have been somewhat overstated imo. The power, handspeed, chin, and stamina of Pacquiao make him a real threat and I don't know how reasonable it is to suggest otherwise.

If in the Bradley fight that stamina and general energy level appears to have declined I think it changes the picture.

Dan_Solo

Henno30 wrote: »

If in the Bradley fight that stamina and general energy level appears to have declined I think it changes the picture.

Can that be said after one fight?
Floyd beat a washed up Cotto by streets, but I don't see how that enhances his reputation either.

Dublin Red Devil

any fighter on drugs llike pacquaio will have a massive advantage over any opponent

Sync

Dublin Red Devil wrote: »

any fighter on drugs llike pacquaio will have a massive advantage over any opponent

Did I miss that in the news where he was caught doping? Thought that would have been front page BBC Sport!