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A Question for those who paid the Household Charge

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    #152
    Mr. Presentable
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,496 ✭✭✭Mr. Presentable


    I don't understand why, if it's to fund local services, only the home owner is liable. Do not tenants use the local services, rather than the absentee landlord? Does this mean that in an area with many exemptions due to poverty there will be no services?


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    #153
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    Mr. Presentable wrote: »
    I don't understand why, if it's to fund local services, only the home owner is liable. Do not tenants use the local services, rather than the absentee landlord? Does this mean that in an area with many exemptions due to poverty there will be no services?

    Well, no. Services will be provided by the money raised from those who can pay..
    As has always been. In the UK we still paid the Poll Tax but at a lower rate.


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    #154
    Zamboni
    Registered Users Posts: 4,305 ✭✭✭Zamboni


    Graces7 wrote: »
    Well, no. Services will be provided by the money raised from those who can pay..
    As has always been. In the UK we still paid the Poll Tax but at a lower rate.

    It is good to see families in negative equity pay for my services whilst I rent and save.
    You have some twisted logic there Graces7.


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    #155
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    Zamboni wrote: »
    It is good to see families in negative equity pay for my services whilst I rent and save.
    You have some twisted logic there Graces7.

    I was not and am not commenting; simply stating facts.

    So please don't attack the messenger.

    I stated no opinion or logic.

    But we who rent are paying anyways indirectly.

    Old saying re the law; if you commit the crime, be prepared to do the time.


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    #156
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,492 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Graces7 wrote: »
    I was not and am not commenting; simply stating facts.

    So please don't attack the messenger.

    I stated no opinion or logic.

    But we who rent are paying anyways indirectly.

    Old saying re the law; if you commit the crime, be prepared to do the time.

    You also omitted to mention the services you get for your payment, bin collection, streets swept etc. I pay bin services to a private company after my local council sold off the contract. My street is rarely swept and is in a very bad state of repair and long before this tax was mentioned.
    In the u.k. you get free doctors / dentist etc


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    #157
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    tayto lover wrote: »
    You also omitted to mention the services you get for your payment, bin collection, streets swept etc. I pay bin services to a private company after my local council sold off the contract. My street is rarely swept and is in a very bad state of repair and long before this tax was mentioned.
    In the u.k. you get free doctors / dentist etc

    Where I lived in an isolated area we got almost nothing. Streets swept? lol!

    And we had and have almost no rubbish. You pay by the amount you create, surely which should lead you to think carefully re how you live;)

    Maybe if more paid as Poll Tax here, services would be ameliorated.

    We get free health care here and I totaly agree re dentists. Even medical card holders get a derisory service. As I learned when my upper denture broke.Were it not for a very kind young dentist who took pity on an old pensioner....

    But YOUR logic makes no sense. we have no services so we will not pay to get more services?

    So what if any is YOUR cure?


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    #158
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,492 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Graces7 wrote: »
    Where I lived in an isolated area we got almost nothing. Streets swept? lol!

    And we had and have almost no rubbish. You pay by the amount you create, surely which should lead you to think carefully re how you live;)

    Maybe if more paid as Poll Tax here, services would be ameliorated.

    We get free health care here and I totaly agree re dentists. Even medical card holders get a derisory service. As I learned when my upper denture broke.Were it not for a very kind young dentist who took pity on an old pensioner....

    But YOUR logic makes no sense. we have no services so we will not pay to get more services?

    So what if any is YOUR cure?

    I always pay for my services but I do want proper ones.


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    #159
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    tayto lover wrote: »
    I always pay for my services but I do want proper ones.


    Define "proper" ones... this post does not answer the issues!

    Have a nice day anyways...


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    #160
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,492 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Graces7 wrote: »
    Define "proper" ones... this post does not answer the issues!

    Have a nice day anyways...

    Roads in my area repaired and cleaned regularly. Street lights working, drains cleared when necessary. That kind of thing. Its not happening now and we are paying for this already.
    Nice day to you too.


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    #161
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Roads in my area repaired and cleaned regularly. Street lights working, drains cleared when necessary. That kind of thing. Its not happening now and we are paying for this already.
    Nice day to you too.


    Out of what? general taxation? Clearly it is not enough and no other EU country manages without the equivalent of a Poll Tax/rates etc.

    Similarly water rates; if you want pure water at your house you need to pay for it. It costs, as those who pay for private wells know fine well. The next fuss will be about that..

    Enjoy court etc...

    Using more tax payers money...

    Over and out! Blessings and peace...


    It was E2 a week!


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    #162
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,492 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Graces7 wrote: »
    Out of what? general taxation? Clearly it is not enough and no other EU country manages without the equivalent of a Poll Tax/rates etc.

    Similarly water rates; if you want pure water at your house you need to pay for it. It costs, as those who pay for private wells know fine well. The next fuss will be about that..

    Enjoy court etc...

    Using more tax payers money...

    Over and out! Blessings and peace...


    It was E2 a week!

    Yeah 2e a week UNTIL they get you registered then bump bump bump.


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    #163
    Zamboni
    Registered Users Posts: 4,305 ✭✭✭Zamboni


    Graces7 wrote: »
    It was E2 a week!

    That is rich coming from a poster who regularly plays the poverty stricken card here.


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    #164
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    Zamboni wrote: »
    That is rich coming from a poster who regularly plays the poverty stricken card here.

    ???? You imply what? I don't play cards, period. Nasty comments like this do not impress one iota. rather the opposite.. should have left you on my
    ignore list from previously when you behved badly .. there you go! Wonderful feature is ignore!

    I refuse to take this kind of comment seriously.

    Had it been that tenants had to pay I would have paid.

    Which is what this is about. It is the law so.


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    #165
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,704 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Zamboni wrote: »
    That is rich coming from a poster who regularly plays the poverty stricken card here.

    Or maybe its just a bit of reality - that the people the protestors keep crying "won't be able to pay" ARE able to pay.

    If you can't afford the household charge, you can't afford to own a house.


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    #166
    gerryo777
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,216 ✭✭✭gerryo777


    MYOB wrote: »
    Or maybe its just a bit of reality - that the people the protestors keep crying "won't be able to pay" ARE able to pay.

    If you can't afford the household charge, you can't afford to own a house.

    What would you suggest people do then?
    Sell up and get a council house?


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    #167
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,704 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    gerryo777 wrote: »
    What would you suggest people do then?
    Sell up and get a council house?

    Rent. There is absolutely nothing wrong with renting, its just that the Irish have an addiction to owning bricks.


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    #168
    gerryo777
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,216 ✭✭✭gerryo777


    MYOB wrote: »
    Rent. There is absolutely nothing wrong with renting, its just that the Irish have an addiction to owning bricks.

    And let someone else pay for them!


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    #169
    Zamboni
    Registered Users Posts: 4,305 ✭✭✭Zamboni


    MYOB wrote: »
    If you can't afford the household charge, you can't afford to own a house.

    That is reverse thinking.
    The vast majority of properties were bought before the announcement of the charge.
    How the do you budget for something which doesn't exist?
    Does that mean renters should start budgeting for the upcoming renters service charge? And if you cannot afford the renters service charge you cannot afford to rent?
    I am being facetious because your reasoning is illogical.


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    #170
    StillWaters
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭StillWaters


    Zamboni wrote: »

    That is reverse thinking.
    The vast majority of properties were bought before the announcement of the charge.
    How the do you budget for something which doesn't exist?
    Does that mean renters should start budgeting for the upcoming renters service charge? And if you cannot afford the renters service charge you cannot afford to rent?
    I am being facetious because your reasoning is illogical.

    We are one of the last countries in Europe to bring in a property tax. It wasn't rocket science to figure out it would be introduced at some stage. Home ownership is a luxury, not a right, as it is perceived by many. I certainly figured it was coming when I bought years ago.

    People, not just on the left have been saying for years renting should be made more attractive so as to discourage property being such a pivotal part of our economic growth, and this goes some small way towards it.


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    #171
    Hijpo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,786 ✭✭✭Hijpo


    We wont get the level of service other countries get for there property tax, Dublin 4 might but smaller towns wont.


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    #172
    Pkiernan
    Registered Users Posts: 4,315 ✭✭✭Pkiernan


    StillWaters wrote: »
    We are one of the last countries in Europe to bring in a property tax. It wasn't rocket science to figure out it would be introduced at some stage. Home ownership is a luxury, not a right, as it is perceived by many. I certainly figured it was coming when I bought years ago.

    People, not just on the left have been saying for years renting should be made more attractive so as to discourage property being such a pivotal part of our economic growth, and this goes some small way towards it.

    Stalin would be proud of you. You should be ashamed of yourself.

    Homeownership is a right - if you can afford to buy a house, you should be allowed to own one.

    The government taxing us to live in our own homes is a breach of our fundamental human rights. They are no better than British landlords of pre-famine Ireland who effectively taxed us for living on our own land.

    I am curious - do you work for a living, or are you on social welfare?


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    #173
    Pkiernan
    Registered Users Posts: 4,315 ✭✭✭Pkiernan


    StillWaters wrote: »
    ... renting should be made more attractive so as to discourage property being such a pivotal part of our economic growth, and this goes some small way towards it.


    By the way it is renters on low income who ultimately end up paying property taxes for their landlords.
    This is something that most hash-smoking left wing loonies (not necessarily you Stillwaters) just can't seem to grasp. The taxes on the so-called rich just end up hurting the poorest of society.

    It's a shame most people aren't as smart as me. The country would be a lot better off.


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    #174
    StillWaters
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭StillWaters


    Pkiernan wrote: »
    It's a shame most people aren't as smart as me. The country would be a lot better off.

    Or as modest, we could rule the world!


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    #175
    2rkehij30qtza5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,476 ✭✭✭2rkehij30qtza5


    The rule of law is there for a reason. Why should people think they have a right to pick and choose what laws they want to abide and those they don't want to abide?
    There's an road I regularly drive which is a 50kph zone. I think it's a ridiculous speed limit to have on this stretch of road but that doesn't give me the right to drive at 60kph, just because I think it's stupid.
    My point is..people are not be allowed cherry pick what laws they want to abide and what ones they want to flout!
    Our elected representatives (who we chose to represent US in government) voted this law in and it's there whether we like it or not.


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    #176
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Hijpo wrote: »
    We wont get the level of service other countries get for there property tax, Dublin 4 might but smaller towns wont.
    Is there any evidence that DCC provide more services in D4 than the rest of the city, or is that just a chip on your shoulder?


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    #177
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,492 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Haley Screeching Antifreeze wrote: »
    The rule of law is there for a reason. Why should people think they have a right to pick and choose what laws they want to abide and those they don't want to abide?
    There's an road I regularly drive which is a 50kph zone. I think it's a ridiculous speed limit to have on this stretch of road but that doesn't give me the right to drive at 60kph, just because I think it's stupid.
    My point is..people are not be allowed cherry pick what laws they want to abide and what ones they want to flout!
    Our elected representatives (who we chose to represent US in government) voted this law in and it's there whether we like it or not.
    So you will go along with any old law they dream up to relieve you of your few euros ? If they introduce a lawnmower tax or a tree tax for having one in your garden would you be sheepish enough to pay those too ?
    A tax for daring to own your own home is a disgrace and I wont be paying it.


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    #178
    marienbad
    Registered Users Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭marienbad


    tayto lover wrote: »
    So you will go along with any old law they dream up to relieve you of your few euros ? If they introduce a lawnmower tax or a tree tax for having one in your garden would you be sheepish enough to pay those too ?
    A tax for daring to own your own home is a disgrace and I wont be paying it.

    This is just rubbish now taytolover - judge on the laws introduced not the makey uppy ones that suit your point, This tax has been mooted for years only FF did'nt need to bite the bullet ( well they did but as usual choose not to and left it to someone else to pick up the pieces) so stop behaving as if it was a bolt from the blue.


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    #179
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,492 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    marienbad wrote: »
    This is just rubbish now taytolover - judge on the laws introduced not the makey uppy ones that suit your point, This tax has been mooted for years only FF did'nt need to bite the bullet ( well they did but as usual choose not to and left it to someone else to pick up the pieces) so stop behaving as if it was a bolt from the blue.

    So they talked about it for years !!!
    Before that then it was just makey uppy too.
    Does that make it right now ?


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    #180
    Hijpo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,786 ✭✭✭Hijpo


    dvpower wrote: »
    Hijpo wrote: »
    We wont get the level of service other countries get for there property tax, Dublin 4 might but smaller towns wont.
    Is there any evidence that DCC provide more services in D4 than the rest of the city, or is that just a chip on your shoulder?

    No im saying that the taxes collected wont be fairly spent, D4 (or any other upper class locality) will be favoured over a smaller town.


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    #181
    marienbad
    Registered Users Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭marienbad


    tayto lover wrote: »
    So they talked about it for years !!!
    Before that then it was just makey uppy too.
    Does that make it right now ?

    yes it does, and considering the situation we are in- doubly so. What do you suggest ?

    This is one of the fairest taxes there is- the bigger the mansion the bigger the tax .

    What would you suggest ?


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