Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 2] *Poll Reset*

bgrizzley

i give in, i'm paying it in the morning, sure its only the price of a couple of silk ties and a scarf..........


http://rlv.zcache.com/ick_in_prick_tie-p151847591034011912z70e0_152.jpg


Night all.

desodon

donalg1 wrote: »

Don't tell me you are as naive as the rest of those that think some people couldn't afford it. Surely not another one.

One has to suspect, you're takin da p*ss.

donalg1

desodon wrote: »

One has to suspect, you're takin da p*ss.

Believe me they can afford it, people saying they cant afford whilst spending the day on Facebook on their iPhone with Sky TV on in the background are the ones taking the p*ss.

Hijpo

donalg1 wrote: »

desodon wrote: »

One has to suspect, you're takin da p*ss.

Believe me they can afford it, people saying they cant afford whilst spending the day on Facebook on their iPhone with Sky TV on in the background are the ones taking the p*ss.

Those are all normalities of 2012 donal, you seem to expect everyone to take a step back to the 90's in order to foot the bill for the governments good times. They have a complete disregard for how the people will see them when they tell us to pay tax on necesities because the country is broke and just as quickly come up with some stupid bloody idea to spend money

donalg1

Hijpo wrote: »

Those are all normalities of 2012 donal, you seem to expect everyone to take a step back to the 90's in order to foot the bill for the governments good times. They have a complete disregard for how the people will see them when they tell us to pay tax on necesities because the country is broke and just as quickly come up with some stupid bloody idea to spend money

To me none of those are normalities they are all luxuries and can be done without.

I never said anything about expecting them to step back to the 90's, all I said was people that have these luxuries cant exactly claim to be broke and certainly cant claim that they cant afford to pay the HHC.

Sure if we all took that attitude where would we be, I could go take out a car loan by a nice new Merc or something then say I cant afford to pay the loan back certainly cant afford the Motor Tax or Insurance because if I pay these I would have to do without my Sky at home, my Broadband, Home Phone, and iPhone and nobody should be without these necessities luxuries.

And by luxuries I mean items that can be afforded once taxes have been paid, and once other bills and loans have been paid, not the other way around as some seem to think.

donalg1

donalg1 wrote: »

Believe me they can afford it, people saying they cant afford whilst spending the day on Facebook on their iPhone with Sky TV on in the background are the ones taking the p*ss.

You are sounding more and more like one of those people who demanded that the less well off in the 1930's sold the radio to pay their taxes or in the 1950's sold the telly and the like.

As it is people are already deferring purchases of many goods to pay for the essentials and many others are not replacing things when they break.

You may have also noticed that fewer teenagers are driving cars and that second cars are also disappearing!

Materialism is declining, the wealth of the majority is being drained, soon it will result in a real decline in living standards!

donalg1

donalg1 wrote: »

To me none of those are normalities they are all luxuries and can be done without.

I never said anything about expecting them to step back to the 90's, all I said was people that have these luxuries cant exactly claim to be broke and certainly cant claim that they cant afford to pay the HHC.

Sure if we all took that attitude where would we be, I could go take out a car loan by a nice new Merc or something then say I cant afford to pay the loan back certainly cant afford the Motor Tax or Insurance because if I pay these I would have to do without my Sky at home, my Broadband, Home Phone, and iPhone and nobody should be without these necessities luxuries.

And by luxuries I mean items that can be afforded once taxes have been paid, and once other bills and loans have been paid, not the other way around as some seem to think.

You start to deny people things they feel benifit their lives, then you should also reduce their expectations by limiting advertising of such products as well.

Perhaps you should fund an advertising campaign to instruct the population that their priorities are to pay all taxes first (like the TV license).

donalg1

Deleted User wrote: »

You start to deny people things they feel benifit their lives, then you should also reduce their expectations by limiting advertising of such products as well.

Perhaps you should fund an advertising campaign to instruct the population that their priorities are to pay all taxes first (like the TV license).

Nah sure an advertising campaign would cost a fortune and no way could I afford that especially not after I pay all my taxes, maybe if I dont bother paying my motor tax for a few years I could afford a small campaign, stop paying my car insurance too and maybe I could afford it sooner. Ah to hell with it I will stop paying for all the necessary items and spend all my money on luxury items, after all they will benefit my life.:rolleyes:

donalg1

donalg1 wrote: »

Nah sure an advertising campaign would cost a fortune and no way could I afford that especially not after I pay all my taxes, maybe if I dont bother paying my motor tax for a few years I could afford a small campaign, stop paying my car insurance too and maybe I could afford it sooner. Ah to hell with it I will stop paying for all the necessary items and spend all my money on luxury items, after all they will benefit my life.:rolleyes:

What a good idea!

It's spending money that keeps the economy going (and the Chinese fed).

Chips Lovell

tayto lover wrote: »

I think his point was that no matter what taxes and charges we pay the money is not going into services anyway. The bondholders are getting it. BUT you knew that anyway, didn't you ?

It's not like refusing to repay bondholders is a magic bullet that would solve all our ills. For a start, there are consequences to such a move, both for Ireland and its banks and the wider European sector. Secondly, even without the bondholders, we're still screwed. For example, our deficit last year was well in excess of what was owed to all the Anglo bondholders. Either way, we need to raise more money and cut back on spending.

Bear in mind too that the property tax is a recommendation of the Commission on Taxation, which published its report as far back as 2009. This isn't some sort of panic measure brought about by having to pay bondholders.

Am Chile wrote: »

We keep hearing big phil say the household charge is for local services, one would think the local garda station, the local guards there to help people if needed would be a part of local services.

The money goes to Local Authorities. That's what he means when he goes on about local services. Local Authorities don't fund the Guards. That money comes from central government.

DoesNotCompute

If ye want to talk about waste, how about this:

http://www.thejournal.ie/oireachtas-travel-expenses-household-charge-joe-higgins-clare-daly-508817-Jul2012/

Elected lawmakers travelling around the country to attend meetings advocating breaking of the law, and then claiming it back on expenses. Outrageous.

donalg1

Deleted User wrote: »

What a good idea!

It's spending money that keeps the economy going (and the Chinese fed).

So your advice is to forget about paying taxes, charges, loans, mortgages etc. and spend all my money on luxury items?

desodon

donalg1 wrote: »

Believe me they can afford it, people saying they cant afford whilst spending the day on Facebook on their iPhone with Sky TV on in the background are the ones taking the p*ss.

But if they get rid of the television to help them pay the charge then the government loses out on the €160 television license fee leaving them at a net loss.Thank god you're not in charge. :rolleyes:

Do you really believe people should give up these rosy 'luxuries' you mention above to pay a new tax?

Hijpo

donalg1 wrote: »

To me none of those are normalities they are all luxuries and can be done without.

I never said anything about expecting them to step back to the 90's, all I said was people that have these luxuries cant exactly claim to be broke and certainly cant claim that they cant afford to pay the HHC.

Sure if we all took that attitude where would we be, I could go take out a car loan by a nice new Merc or something then say I cant afford to pay the loan back certainly cant afford the Motor Tax or Insurance because if I pay these I would have to do without my Sky at home, my Broadband, Home Phone, and iPhone and nobody should be without these necessities luxuries.

And by luxuries I mean items that can be afforded once taxes have been paid, and once other bills and loans have been paid, not the other way around as some seem to think.

TV is a normality, you have to have digital tv to benefit from having tv. Why pay 160 euro a year for owning a tv with 3 channels, on 2 of those channels 48% of shows are repeats. where as for 40 quid more i can get a variety.

Broadband is a necessary for interaction with family forced to move to other countrys, education in the form of online courses, job applications, online banking to make sure your not in the red etc

Landlines that mostly come as part of your broadband package anyway, wether you use it or not is another thing, most have a deal where calls to other landlines are free after 6 aswell.

iPhones, i can see your point on, a rediculous amount of money to be spending on a phone that will be used to do the same things as a lower end android phone.

Cigarettes, if people stopped smoking so much then the little hike in price of a packet of 20 in every budget wouldnt mean anything to the government. Its not like they government isnt seeing any of the money we are spending on these things either, everything carries VAT these days. Actually your being double taxed on your gas bill as your paying VAT on the carbon tax.

Sure if we all took that attitude where would we be, I could go take out a car loan by a nice new Merc or something then say I cant afford to pay the loan back certainly cant afford the Motor Tax or Insurance because if I pay these I would have to do without my Sky at home, my Broadband, Home Phone, and iPhone and nobody should be without these necessities luxuries.

Like a few developers donal is it?

Id say very few people that live the high-falutin life actually have the money to do so and only had that money to get that way because they borrowed it.

Ghandee

DoesNotCompute wrote: »

If ye want to talk about waste, how about this:

http://www.thejournal.ie/oireachtas-travel-expenses-household-charge-joe-higgins-clare-daly-508817-Jul2012/

Elected lawmakers travelling around the country to attend meetings advocating breaking of the law, and then claiming it back on expenses. Outrageous.

different slant to the story from the same source.

http://www.thejournal.ie/joe-higgins-clare-daly-joan-collins-thomas-pringle-united-left-alliance-expenses-household-charge-boycott-508036-Jul2012/

The regulation states that a TD is entitled to claim for “travel expenses which the member is obliged to incur in the performance of his or her duties as a member of Dáil Éireann”.

Lol, its wasting tax payers money when they're travelling the country advising the public not to pay into a sham tax where their money shall be wasted by the coalition goons in govt.

Oh the irony lol.

donalg1

Hijpo wrote: »

TV is a normality, you have to have digital tv to benefit from having tv. Why pay 160 euro a year for owning a tv with 3 channels, on 2 of those channels 48% of shows are repeats. where as for 40 quid more i can get a variety.

Broadband is a necessary for interaction with family forced to move to other countrys, education in the form of online courses, job applications, online banking to make sure your not in the red etc

Landlines that mostly come as part of your broadband package anyway, wether you use it or not is another thing, most have a deal where calls to other landlines are free after 6 aswell.

iPhones, i can see your point on, a rediculous amount of money to be spending on a phone that will be used to do the same things as a lower end android phone.

Cigarettes, if people stopped smoking so much then the little hike in price of a packet of 20 in every budget wouldnt mean anything to the government. Its not like they government isnt seeing any of the money we are spending on these things either, everything carries VAT these days. Actually your being double taxed on your gas bill as your paying VAT on the carbon tax.



Like a few developers donal is it?

Id say very few people that live the high-falutin life actually have the money to do so and only had that money to get that way because they borrowed it.

Sky Tv is a luxury, Broadband is a luxury, a landline is a luxury, as for cigarettes they are most certainly a luxury, and the money the Govt makes out of them is surely outweighed by the cost of treating those that develop cancer as a result of smoking 20 a day for years.

My point was the above are all luxuries and anyone that has them cant say they cant afford the HHC because if they can afford the above they can afford to pay their taxes.

bgrizzley

at 6.71 tax per pack the last thing the government want is for people to quit smoking at the moment. they would get the equivalent of the hhc from a 20-a-day smoker in 2 weeks. or the hhc 25 times over in the course of a year.


http://www.itmac.ie/?showNewsLite=9

hondasam

donalg1 wrote: »

Sky Tv is a luxury, Broadband is a luxury, a landline is a luxury, as for cigarettes they are most certainly a luxury, and the money the Govt makes out of them is surely outweighed by the cost of treating those that develop cancer as a result of smoking 20 a day for years.

My point was the above are all luxuries and anyone that has them cant say they cant afford the HHC because if they can afford the above they can afford to pay their taxes.

Have you given any thought to all the money the government waste.How many things can we count as a luxury for them?
Expenses tops the list. Enda Kenny was all talk when in opposition but he has changed feck all.
It's still them up there sheltered from reality dictating to the rest of us and then you are on here telling us if we have phones and sky tv etc we are well off and should pay the HHC not everyone can afford it donal.
I admit I can afford to pay but it's the principle for me tbh.

desodon

donalg1 wrote: »

Sky Tv is a luxury, Broadband is a luxury, a landline is a luxury, as for cigarettes they are most certainly a luxury, and the money the Govt makes out of them is surely outweighed by the cost of treating those that develop cancer as a result of smoking 20 a day for years.

My point was the above are all luxuries and anyone that has them cant say they cant afford the HHC because if they can afford the above they can afford to pay their taxes.

Luxury, luxury, luxury. Sounds like if you had your way we would all be living in shells without electricity and contributing the money we would save by this existence to Leinster House.

If Ireland wants to claim it is an economically competitive, well educated, well developed country as it so often does to compete for multinational investment, then broadband and television should not be considered luxuries.

In a third world country, these are luxuries.

Hijpo

and my point is that they are a part of everyday life, mercs and lobster and stupidly priced items that do the same job as cheaper alternatives are luxuries. I never said smoking wasnt a luxury, but the government makes money from the purchase of them. You make it sound as though smokers are the only ones who recieve treatment for cancer.

donalg1

desodon wrote: »

Luxury, luxury, luxury. Sounds like if you had your way we would all be living in shells without electricity and contributing the money we would save by this existence to Leinster House.

If Ireland wants to claim it is an economically competitive, well educated, well developed country as it so often does to compete for multinational investment, then broadband and television should not be considered luxuries.

In a third world country, these are luxuries.

Seriously? A multinational is really going to care if I have TV or Broadband at home. They will care if they have access to these services or not. A third world country may not have access to these. In Ireland we do but they are seen as luxuries for those that can afford them. You seem to keep missing this point somehow.

donalg1

hondasam wrote: »

Have you given any thought to all the money the government waste.How many things can we count as a luxury for them?
Expenses tops the list. Enda Kenny was all talk when in opposition but he has changed feck all.
It's still them up there sheltered from reality dictating to the rest of us and then you are on here telling us if we have phones and sky tv etc we are well off and should pay the HHC not everyone can afford it donal.
I admit I can afford to pay but it's the principle for me tbh.

Where did I say you are well off if you have phones and sky tv? Again putting words in my mouth. I actually said that if you have these you cant complain that you are too broke to pay your taxes.

donalg1

Hijpo wrote: »

and my point is that they are a part of everyday life, mercs and lobster and stupidly priced items that do the same job as cheaper alternatives are luxuries. I never said smoking wasnt a luxury, but the government makes money from the purchase of them. You make it sound as though smokers are the only ones who recieve treatment for cancer.

I said "those that develop cancer as a result of smoking 20 a day for years"

bgrizzley

sure if we didnt have tv or broadband we wouldnt even know about the household tax, a feckin paradox!

hondasam

donalg1 wrote: »

Where did I say you are well off if you have phones and sky tv? Again putting words in my mouth. I actually said that if you have these you cant complain that you are too broke to pay your taxes.

donalg1 wrote: »

Sky Tv is a luxury, Broadband is a luxury, a landline is a luxury, as for cigarettes they are most certainly a luxury,

My point was the above are all luxuries and anyone that has them cant say they cant afford the HHC because if they can afford the above they can afford to pay their taxes.

Really donal you are saying people who can afford luxuries as you call the are well off.
You ignored what I said about the government and waste of course, it makes no difference what anyone say's to you, the government is right and the rest of the country are wrong and should just pay up regardless.

donalg1

hondasam wrote: »

Really donal you are saying people who can afford luxuries as you call the are well off.
You ignored what I said about the government and waste of course, it makes no difference what anyone say's to you, the government is right and the rest of the country are wrong and should just pay up regardless.

So I never said the people that can afford these are well off then thats grand so.

Hijpo

donalg1 wrote: »

I said "those that develop cancer as a result of smoking 20 a day for years"

Anyone who is effected by cancer gets treatment, 30% of cancer patients are smoking related, theres another 70% that are not smoke related. Anyone at anytime can be struck with cancer. Im not saying nobody should be treated for cancer, but there is a bigger picture there not just the pixel that you choose to pick out.

Your arguments carry no weight when everyday we hear news of more reckless spending, if they dont need to cut there own luxuries they dont need extra money from me.

desodon

donalg1 wrote: »

Seriously? A multinational is really going to care if I have TV or Broadband at home. They will care if they have access to these services or not. A third world country may not have access to these. In Ireland we do but they are seen as luxuries for those that can afford them.

Are you trying to say that an IT multinational would not care if 8 in 10 people in this country did not have access to broadband at their home?

donalg1 wrote: »

You seem to keep missing this point somehow

Right back at ya.

hondasam

donalg1 wrote: »

So I never said the people that can afford these are well off then thats grand so.

You did in a roundabout way actually.

The government are not guilty of waste ? That's grand so.

donalg1

Hijpo wrote: »

Anyone who is effected by cancer gets treatment, 30% of cancer patients are smoking related, theres another 70% that are not smoke related. Anyone at anytime can be struck with cancer. Im not saying nobody should be treated for cancer, but there is a bigger picture there not just the pixel that you choose to pick out.

Your arguments carry no weight when everyday we hear news of more reckless spending, if they dont need to cut there own luxuries they dont need extra money from me.

FFS how do you actually keep missing my point seriously? I said the money the government make from people buying cigarettes will be outweighed by the money they spend treating them when they develop cancer as a result of smoking. When and where did I say the only people that have cancer are those that smoke. Please show me where by all means I would love to see it. Otherwise read what I have posted and get the point.