Aircoach Dublin-Cork express

foggy_lad

dfx- wrote: »

Coming back from the Rovers game in Cork in August, the 1am service from Cork was absolutely full with 10 people left behind. The 3am service ex-Cork was just under half full on Friday morning and only one other person was getting off in the city with me, everyone else was for the Airport..

One question though...why go in and out of the city via the M50/M4?

The buses are routed along the m50 and n4 because of the weight restrictions in Inchicore as well as the streets there being residential streets. Only a very small number of buses including bus Eireann's 126 are routed through Inchicore from the Naas road.

Jamie2k9

How exactly can you count the number of passengers on board from outside? These coaches are very high and hard to see through the tinted windows. Out of interest I count the number of passengers on board when I'm on board myself and even that is difficult to do accurately when shorter people lie back in the seat.

I'm a tall person and the bus was stopped and was blocking my path for crossing on the quays. Its not that hard and if you stand back a little you can count either side of it. Its just a poor number for a monday evening I thaught anways. I expect Galway services to be busy as its faster than train.

I also don't know why people post when I was coming back from an event in Cork or Dublin the bus was full, what do you expect the trains would be the same..

bk

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

I also don't know why people post when I was coming back from an event in Cork or Dublin the bus was full, what do you expect the trains would be the same..

I take the bus to Cork almost weekly now, at all sorts of different times. My experience is based on this, not on special events.

Galway is so popular because these services have been around for years and are well developed and known now.

The Cork services are only a few months old. I'm still telling people in Cork about these new services, they hadn't heard about them yet!

It takes time to build up awareness and a customer base, it doesn't happen over night.

All I can say is that every time I use them they are busier and busier. Also a driver told me that usage is already far beyond Aircoaches projections.

Finally please explain why both GoBE and Aircoach are buying new 2012 coaches if the service is doing so badly?

Jamie2k9

It was more directed at dfx-

Finally please explain why both GoBE and Aircoach are buying new 2012 coaches if the service is doing so badly?

Could they of launched without buying new buses, they could not buy dated buses if they have a hope of being a success. I would also say that the bus company's don't own them and probably won't for years. They are probably got on the back of loans or Hire Purchase. The reason why people don't know about them is because both company's have not bothered to do any sort of real advertising and until this happens loads will be poor most of the time. What kind of people do these company's have employed in marketing or do they think passengers will just move from train to bus because the work express is on the buses.

It will be intresting to see over the next 6-8 months how thing are between Cork and Dublin with faster train times and these two operators. Who will win lower prices = longer journey or higher prices = shorter journey.

One other thing are the journeys being completed within the timetable?

sligotrain

There's room in the market for all modes of transport. Personally I'd rather not be squeezed in like a rabbit in a bus to Cork, no matter how swish the toilets are or how fast my poos get sucked out of it.

bk

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Could they of launched without buying new buses, they could not buy dated buses if they have a hope of being a success.

Well Aircoach had enough coaches from the start, they didn't buy in any new buses when they started the new Cork and Belfast routes. They simply shuffled in coaches from their Dublin Airport routes with a slight reduction in schedule on these routes.

They now seem to be replacing these with both second hand and more recently brand new toilet equipped coaches.

OF course this latest development is due to competition from the entry of GoBE that have all toilet equipped coaches.

But the point is do you really think they would go to all this new investment if the routes weren't performing to expectations or better.

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

What kind of people do these company's have employed in marketing or do they think passengers will just move from train to bus because the work express is on the buses.

Actually Aircoach have been advertising in Cork. I agree it could be better and more aggressive (e.g. hand out flyers outside the train stations

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

It will be intresting to see over the next 6-8 months how thing are between Cork and Dublin with faster train times and these two operators. Who will win lower prices = longer journey or higher prices = shorter journey.

I honestly don't think it will make much difference, the speed improvements don't look like they will be too significant.

2:30 from Cork to Dublin ends up 2:50 when you add the time to get to and from Heuston. So I think most people will be more then happy to lose an extra 10 minutes for a ticket that is 4 times cheaper.

After all, there is already a 2:30 minute train at 5pm Ex-Dublin. It was the train I use to take, I now take the coach at the same time instead and I find I still get there faster *

* I leave later to get the bus, as my Dublin Bus leaves me off at Westmoreland St, right across from the Aircoach stop and I don't have to trudge down to Hueston. Plus I use to always leave earlier for the train as if you miss it, then it costs a lot extra to change your ticket. With the bus, I can simply cross the road and get the GoBE 30 minutes later.

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

One other thing are the journeys being completed within the timetable?

Yes, with the exception of the last bank holiday weekend 5pm ex-Dublin got in 15 minutes late, all the rest I've taken have been surprisingly bang on schedule, even early in more then a few cases.

dfx-

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

It was more directed at dfx-

My 'event' contributed nothing but 2 customers to the load. The rest were there irrespective. The trains don't run after the match at 11pm, so they were not the same either. Most away fans at this event use supporters' coaches or their own transport.

Jamie2k9

Actually Aircoach have been advertising in Cork. I agree it could be better and more aggressive (e.g. hand out flyers outside the train stations

Shortly after I posted this I heard a GoBus/BE add advertising Galway and then up to 15 daily express services to Cork for €20 return.

My 'event' contributed nothing but 2 customers to the load. The rest were there irrespective. The trains don't run after the match at 11pm, so they were not the same either. Most away fans at this event use supporters' coaches or their own transport.

It was aimed at you and others who say the bus was full etc and this is to be expected after an event. Anyway enough said.

There's room in the market for all modes of transport. Personally I'd rather not be squeezed in like a rabbit in a bus to Cork, no matter how swish the toilets are or how fast my poos get sucked out of it.

There will be room but will all be able to make money on the route. Bus companys will crack before the train as they depent on mainly Cork and Dublin point to point where as trains don't as much.

bk

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

There will be room but will all be able to make money on the route. Bus companys will crack before the train as they depent on mainly Cork and Dublin point to point where as trains don't as much.

Well GoBus and Citylink certainly haven't cracked on the Galway route where they have been operating for years now. In fact they seem to be going from strength to strength with completely full coaches, extra coaches at busy times and all new 2012 fleet.

If they can be successful on the Galway route, I can't see why they can't be equally or even more successful on the Cork route which is:

a) Much busier route, thus more passengers to steal from IR and BE
b) The price differential with rail is even greater with the coach being 4 times cheaper then rail on this route, versus just 2 times cheaper to Galway.

Logically I can't see any reason why this route won't be equally or more successful then the Galway route.

BTW you keep saying that intermediate stops are important on this route. Not in my experience, any time I use to travel to Cork, I'd say over 80% of people were going Cork to Dublin.

sligotrain

You love that zero sum game don't you? Stealing passengers from IE/BE?
Surely you work in the bus game.

Jamie2k9

Logically I can't see any reason why this route won't be equally or more successful then the Galway route.

BTW you keep saying that intermediate stops are important on this route. Not in my experience, any time I use to travel to Cork, I'd say over 80% of people were going Cork to Dublin.

I do hope its a success for both operators but I can't see where demand has come for around 30 extra bus services between Cork-Dublin. Can this be suistanable I don't know a lot about Galway route but its such a success as it beats the train where as Cork services don't and won't ever. I'm wondering will both operators be able to keep these low prices long term?

a) Much busier route, thus more passengers to steal from IR and BE
b) The price differential with rail is even greater with the coach being 4 times cheaper then rail on this route, versus just 2 times cheaper to Galway.

BTW you keep saying that intermediate stops are important on this route. Not in my experience, any time I use to travel to Cork, I'd say over 80% of people were going Cork to Dublin.

I don't think there is more passengers to steel from IE because Dublin-Cork line is serving Limerick and Tralee passengers and if these routes had there own two houly service then I could see a 50% drop in direct Cork services as there would be no demand as Limerick and Tralee would also be serving what Cork serves. It would be good if there was a breakdown of the revenue collected for Limerick, Tralee, Mallow, Thurles and Cork passengers on the route.

bk

sligotrain wrote: »

You love that zero sum game don't you? Stealing passengers from IE/BE?
Surely you work in the bus game.

Nope, just a very happy Corkonian living in Dublin. Now that I pay €18 to get to Cork return instead of €80!!

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

I do hope its a success for both operators but I can't see where demand has come for around 30 extra bus services between Cork-Dublin.

Primarily stealing passengers from Bus Eireann and Irish Rail. To a lesser extent from cars:

BE: Obviously these will take most if not all of BE's Dublin to Cork passengers. After all why spending 4 hours in the bus when you can do the same journey in 3 hours for less money!!

IR: Massive price difference. Aircoach €18 return, Irish Rail €47 to €78 depending on when you book, plus another €3.20 for the Luas to and from Hueston.

Currently for the majority of journeys, Aircoach will actually get you into the city center faster then rail + luas. Even once the new 2:30 journey times are introduced, that will still only be 10 minutes faster then the coach. I think many people would be well willing to spend an extra 10 minutes on the coach to save between €32 and €53.

IR carry 2.2 million passengers between Cork and Dublin per year. That is a significant market ripe for the taking.

Car: With ticket prices as low as €18, that is a significant saving over driving between Cork and Dublin in terms of petrol and tolls. I have one friend who use to drive to Cork every weekend, he has now switched to Aircoach/GoBE.

However I admit this is probably the smallest group of people.

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Can this be suistanable I don't know a lot about Galway route but its such a success as it beats the train where as Cork services don't and won't ever. I'm wondering will both operators be able to keep these low prices long term?

As I point out above, when you include the time to and from Hueston the coach actually is faster at the moment. Even when it is slower, it is only slower by 10 minutes and when you include the 4 times price difference, that is where you gain the passengers.

On average the train to Galway is only 5 minutes slower. It is the two times price difference that makes the difference. So at 4 times the price difference, the Cork route should be even more successful.

And why can't they keep the prices low? They have on the Galway route, don't see any reason why the Cork route would be different. They might not remain as low as €18 return, but even at €22 they would still be savagely undercutting IR's prices.

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

I don't think there is more passengers to steel from IE because Dublin-Cork line is serving Limerick and Tralee passengers and if these routes had there own two houly service then I could see a 50% drop in direct Cork services as there would be no demand as Limerick and Tralee would also be serving what Cork serves. It would be good if there was a breakdown of the revenue collected for Limerick, Tralee, Mallow, Thurles and Cork passengers on the route.

The Hueston to Cork daily revenue is €255,026 of a total intercity revenue of €648,000.

So it represents 40% of all of IR's intercity revenue.

Not revenue, but passenger numbers:
Dublin-Cork 2.33 million
Dublin-Tralle .529 million
Dublin-Limerick .660 million
Dublin-Galway .975 million
Dublin-Belfast .889 million

Look at how big the passenger numbers are to Cork versus Galway and you can easily see how ripe for the taking this route is for Aircoach/GoBE.

Here is the other interesting stat, at the start of the year (before Aircaoch/GoBE started up) the breakdown of mode of transport share was:

Car - Bus - Train
Cork
50% - 10% - 40%
Galway
50% - 25% - 25%

Note Galway has a much higher percent of people taking the bus. I believe this is due to the much more well developed, direct bus services being in place for years. However with the launch of Aircoach/GoBE in Cork, the potential for the same shift is there.

Even a similar 15% shift to coach would mean GoBE/Aircoach would gain almost 900,000 passengers from Irish Rail and would potentially gain more from BE.

So Aircoach/GoBE are aiming at a potential market of over 1 million passengers a year!!!!

So when people question will they be successful and will they be able to survive, it is stats and analysis of these stats that make such questions seem ridiculous.

bk

kieran4003 I can assure you I have no affiliation with any transport company of any kind.

In fact I work as a software engineer and I'm well known by others on boards who can verify that.

My only experience of rail and bus is as a passenger. I'm a Corkonian living in Dublin who has used public transport for the past ten years. By train for most of that time, and by bus for the past 6 months.

My hatred of Irish Rail, well I don't hate Irish Rail, but I do dislike them. I dislike them as they seemed to operate a shoddy, slow, over-expensive service that seemed to be more run for the staff then the passengers.

I'm now delighted to have switched to Cork with their far better schedules and MUCH cheaper prices.

As for the price difference:
47 / 18 = 2.6111111111
77 / 18 = 4.2777777778

And that excludes the cost of the LUAS too and from Heuston.

Also I will point out that up until this year, I normally paid €77 to get to Cork (or the equivalent over the years). I never once got those mythical €10 special offer tickets. The new €47 "special promotion" fare was only introduced earlier this year, I would guess only in response to the competition from these bus companies.

sligotrain

bk wrote: »

kieran4003 I can assure you I have no affiliation with any transport company of any kind.

In fact I work as a software engineer and I'm well known by others on boards who can verify that.

My only experience of rail and bus is as a passenger. I'm a Corkonian living in Dublin who has used public transport for the past ten years. By train for most of that time, and by bus for the past 6 months.

My hatred of Irish Rail, well I don't hate Irish Rail, but I do dislike them. I dislike them as they seemed to operate a shoddy, slow, over-expensive service that seemed to be more run for the staff then the passengers.

I'm now delighted to have switched to Cork with their far better schedules and MUCH cheaper prices.

As for the price difference:
47 / 18 = 2.6111111111
77 / 18 = 4.2777777778

And that excludes the cost of the LUAS too and from Heuston.

Also I will point out that up until this year, I normally paid €77 to get to Cork (or the equivalent over the years). I never once got those mythical €10 special offer tickets. The new €47 "special promotion" fare was only introduced earlier this year, I would guess only in response to the competition from these bus companies.

To be honest you appear to have such a vendetta against both IE and BE it's hard to take your posts seriously. By the way, I don't work for any public transport company in case anyone wonders. I am a management consultant who travels around the country either by train or bus or car depending on what mode of transport works for me.

My first preference is for trains because I can work during my travel time. Can't work as easily on a bus and obviously I can't work and drive!

bk

Well that is amusing sligotrain, as a management consultant, you should have a respect for my facts based, statistical analysis of the Irish public transport market. After all isn't that a major part of management consultancy?

You come in, study the accounts and operating procedures of the company, look at their competition and what they are doing and then give advice on how to improve their business?

That is pretty much what I've been doing here. Showing people what a dangerous situation IR/BE face here and some things they need to do to improve.

But you are correct, I do dislike IR/BE (a vendetta is far too strong). I think that are very inefficient semi states that are run more for their staff then the public.

I think the private operators have proven they can deliver a much better service, at a cheaper price and at no cost to the tax payer.

BTW you prefer taking the train. That is totally fair enough, we all have our preference. However as you say you travel for business, I assume your travel costs are covered by your clients, so the price difference doesn't matter so much to you.

But as someone who is paying for myself, heading down to Cork once a week, can't you see why I would be so excited to have my fare cut from €77 to just €18 by taking a coach that is actually faster!!

BBTW you say you find my posts hard to take serious. Please point out a single item in my posts which isn't factually correct? I notice as a management consultant you haven't given any stats to refute any of my posts!! I suppose it shows the difference between engineers and management :P

sligotrain

Well bk get your facts right before you attempt to have a go at me...

let's take a return journey from Dublin to Cork on Saturday next week. Irish Rail are quoting me €43.98 + €2 booking fee (let's round it all up to €46) for the return journey, and GoBE are quoting €20.

So not sure where your €77 comes from unless it's your head?

Here's why I don't take your posts seriously. You make up or exaggerate "facts" to fit your argument, you use subjective language to make your case - beautiful toasted roll, anyone? And you come across as a slightly hysterical obsessive about CIE in general. You ought to relax, when you get older you may have an ulcer or something. When was the last time you saw your doctor?

foggy_lad

sligotrain wrote: »

Well bk get your facts right before you attempt to have a go at me...

let's take a return journey from Dublin to Cork on Saturday next week. Irish Rail are quoting me €43.98 + €2 booking fee (let's round it all up to €46) for the return journey, and GoBE are quoting €20.

So not sure where your €77 comes from unless it's your head?

Here's why I don't take your posts seriously. You make up or exaggerate "facts" to fit your argument, you use subjective language to make your case - beautiful toasted roll, anyone? And you come across as a slightly hysterical obsessive about CIE in general. You ought to relax, when you get older you may have an ulcer or something. When was the last time you saw your doctor?

Don't forget the €3.20 for the luas and if you decide to travel at the last minute that fare which is still very high gets even higher although buying at the booking office saves you the online charges.

bk

sligotrain wrote: »

Well bk get your facts right before you attempt to have a go at me...

let's take a return journey from Dublin to Cork on Saturday next week. Irish Rail are quoting me €43.98 + €2 booking fee (let's round it all up to €46) for the return journey, and GoBE are quoting €20.

So not sure where your €77 comes from unless it's your head?

You have forgotten the €3.20 for the Luas and potential €1 fee for using a credit card.

Here is an equivalent break down.

Book 3 days in advance return ticket
Aircoach €18 / IR + Luas €49.18

Book 1 day in advance return ticket
Aircoach €18 / IR + Luas €71.18

Book 1 hour in advance return ticket
GoBE €20 / IR + Luas €76.20

Walk up return fare
Aircoach €22 / IR + Luas €80.20

All prices confirmed on the Irish Rail website. These are the facts, nothing made up, please point out a single inaccuracy above?

Again I please ask you to stop with the personal attacks. Here on boards we have a rule, attack the post, not the poster. Saying things like it is in my head and if I need to visit a doctor is strictly against the rules of boards and can get you banned.

Also when a person has to drop to such insults in a conversation, it is a sure sign that they have lost the argument and have no better rebuttal.

You keep saying I make things up or exaggerate things, yet you haven't been able to point to a single example yet.

I think you are simply annoyed as my facts don't fit with your opinion and you simply can't accept them.

Jamie2k9

You have forgotten the €1 credit card fee

Can't realy include that as it does not apply to everybody. A lot of people have visa debt cards which don't get charged the fee.

Hogzy

In fairness BK has clearly pointed out that the Bus is a hell of a lot cheaper than the train and it is very convenient for taking people from one city center to another.

I am only familiar with Cork to Dublin (& Vice Versa) Routes. I have used Aircoach, GoBus and the train to travel to and back in the last year. If I needed to go to Dublin via public transport and it was free I would definetly be taking an express bus of some sort. They bring you closer to the city center and they are a considerably cheaper form of transport.

People who are claiming the train is still a better way to get from ork to Dublin, Can you list one advantage to taking the train over the bus? I cant think of any tbh.

bk

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Can't realy include that as it does not apply to everybody. A lot of people have visa debt cards which don't get charged the fee.

Fair enough, I had forgotten you can opt to use a laser card for free. I have thus adjusted my figures above accordingly. Still doesn't make much of a difference, but you are right for accuracy sake.

So the coach is between 2.7 and 3.6 times cheaper.

bk

Hogzy wrote: »

People who are claiming the train is still a better way to get from ork to Dublin, Can you list one advantage to taking the train over the bus? I cant think of any tbh.

Well I'll play devils advocate. The train does have some advantages:

1) Catering on board, even if it is pretty poor and expensive.
2) More table space for a laptop/working
3) More space to be able to get up and walk around.

Personally I don't think these advantages are enough to make up for a 2 to 4 times price difference, but another person might think differently.

The coach bus also has some advantages over rail:

1) More comfortable seats (either partial or fully leather) and they recline
2) A quieter, smoother ride
3) Lights are normally turned off at night, like on an airline

The above three points combine to make it much easier to sleep on the bus in my experience. I could never sleep on the train, too brightly lit, too noisy and bouncy and the seats don't recline. I've found I can easily sleep on most late evening bus journeys.

Of course the other advantages of the coach are how cheap it is and the fact that it brings you right into the city center and right to the front door of the airport.

Hogzy

bk wrote: »

The above three points combine to make it much easier to sleep on the bus in my experience. I could never sleep on the train, too brightly lit, too noisy and bouncy and the seats don't recline. I've found I can easily sleep on most late evening bus journeys.

You also dont have the announcements every 15mins. :P

AlekSmart

Hogzy wrote: »

You also dont have the announcements every 15mins. :P

Ah here,leave it out willya...cue members of the Gaelgeoiri making a complaint to An Comisioneir Teanga about the lack of such information....! :eek:

Jamie2k9

Took the 03.00 from Cork to Dublin Airport this morning. Journey completed in 2h55m. Around 25 boarded in Cork. Cost €18 walk up but overall very impressed. Didn't expect so much leg room anad wifi is great.

Anyone know why after it passes through the tolls it stops for a few minutes before we move again.

bk

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Anyone know why after it passes through the tolls it stops for a few minutes before we move again.

Do you mean it stopped for a toilet break?

If not, then that is strange, never done that before and I've been on the 3am.

Jamie2k9

Do you mean it stopped for a toilet break?

If not, then that is strange, never done that before and I've been on the 3am.

Maybe that was it I did see somebody get off at one of them. Is that where they normally stop for breaks?

bk

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Maybe that was it I did see somebody get off at one of them. Is that where they normally stop for breaks?

About half the Aircoach coaches to Cork have toilets on board and never stop.

For the other half that don't have toilets on board, then if a passenger asks, they normally stop about half way for a toilet break.

33014

Cork to Dublin airport service is not very good. Grumpy driver. Very old and dirty bus. Noisy and the seats are tighter than Ryanair's. I am not going to use aircoach again, there are better alternatives.

devnull

33014 wrote: »

Cork to Dublin airport service is not very good. Grumpy driver. Very old and dirty bus. Noisy and the seats are tighter than Ryanair's. I am not going to use aircoach again, there are better alternatives.

And you signed up today just to say that and went looking through for an existing topic to derail?

Tip: Generally if you are going to attempt to post such stuff on boards, it might be a better idea to actually make it more believable by not having such remark as your first post as it doesn't look very genuine.

Considering there is nothing older than a 2006 bus running on that route and the oldest vehicles they have are from 2004 and are very spacious, then I'd say it's very unlikely that was your experience and your post has an ulterior motive.