Aircoach Dublin-Cork express

bk

Btw this posted from the 8am Aircoach ex-Cork on the wifi which is working well.

I'd say about 3/4 full, so pretty good.

It is the 06 Irizar, which is an interesting coach. It's seats aren't leather but still comfortable. The seats have small back of seats mesh pockets which work well and all seem to be clean.

There is a nice armrest sort of thing built on the window. Another nice feature is they have two LCD screens which show video from outside the bus overlooking the luggage rack when open.

Arrived in at 10:50, so 2 hours 50 minutes to O'Connell St. Nice and fast, about 20 to 30 minutes faster then by train to the same.

Obviously no stop at Urlingford, which is good, but confusing as this coach had no toilet on board unlike the coach on Saturday that had the toilet, but still stopped in Urlingford !!

devnull

bk wrote: »

Well I'm a big fan of the new Aircoach service, but I have to say this situation with people getting on and off at Urlingford is simply not on. It may even be in contravention of the NTA license.

Unless you actually see them getting off you can't say if it happened for sure. What I've seen happen in other countries is people depend on a pee/toilet stop at a particular place as it's happened in the past and want to get off at this place the driver tells them the bus does not stop there, but they think that it normally stops there so it won't be a problem, passengers buy ticket anyway as they're sure it will stop, so driver tells them a ticket to Cork, the bus doesn't stop at Urlingford like they expect and they go all the way to Cor and get really annoyed. Remember toilets are a relatively new thing to the route and such passengers are unlikely to have traveled on the route since such coaches became available.

Also put yourself in the drivers place if they did stop at Urlingford, if they get off and say they are going for a break, he can't force them to get back on the bus. I agree if it is being done on purpose it is wrong and is not right at all but as I said if you dos top it's very hard to force someone to get back on a bus they don't want to get on, the way to get around this on National Express routes where you had a break always and wanted to initially travel to was in the place of the break, was to miss the bus after the break on purpose, as a driver are you going to hold everyone up whilst you try and find a passenger who does not want to get on the bus anyway?

It is a difficult situation but when all of the vehicles have toilets, and they have no stops, people will start to realise such game isn't going to work as the Urlingford stop will be gone and the driver will not have to stop meaning the situation will not happen again.

However Aircoach need to improve their online booking, you can only book up to 5pm on the previous day, which isn't very flexible. Citylink seem to allow you to book up to 15 minutes before, which is much nicer.

That would require a huge investment in replacing ticket machines, IT systems, the website and back-end systems not to mention training costs. I believe the Citylink system previously was suspect to a high level of fake ticket fraud until they made some adjustements especially on passengers traveling from Dublin where the company would not have access to depot infrastructure and lists. It's very easy to fraud a ticket when there is no way for a driver to validate them

There are rumours according to what I've read elsewhere of further Aircoach vehicles joining the fleet in the next few weeks, apparently it will be Plaxton based ones from the UK, which should feature toilets.

bk

devnull wrote: »

That would require a huge investment in replacing ticket machines, IT systems, the website and back-end systems not to mention training costs. I believe the Citylink system previously was suspect to a high level of fake ticket fraud until they made some adjustements especially on passengers traveling from Dublin where the company would not have access to depot infrastructure and lists. It's very easy to fraud a ticket when there is no way for a driver to validate them

Not necessarily.

They could simply use cheap android tablets, like the new $200 Google one connected to the back end ticket system, allowing them to check the ticket and mark it as been used.

dowlingm

bk wrote: »

Not necessarily.

They could simply use cheap android tablets, like the new $200 Google one connected to the back end ticket system, allowing them to check the ticket and mark it as been used.

Even a company cellphone could do it if connected to the right back end:
http://www.viarail.ca/en/about-via-rail/capital-investment/article/e-ticketing-pilot-all-aboard

Padraig Mor

Tried this service for the first time this week (Cork - Dublin and back). Two of us went; I would normally drive but the bus cost is about half of petrol + tolls + parking.

Got the 9am service from Cork on Monday. About 65% full. Afraid I didn't catch the model (it had dark leather seats if that helps) but I wasn't impressed with the bus. Room - both leg and side - was very poor and spent the journey pretty much wedged into position. WiFi was ok for light browsing, but forget it for any sort of streaming. However, the main problem was the toilet - which stank throughout the whole journey - and had done so since we boarded so the driver must have been aware of it. Arrived Dublin almost exactly 3 hours after leaving; no stop on the journey.

Return service yesterday much better. 13.00 from Dublin; about 12 people on board. Much better leg room (this bus had orange and blue leather seats). Wifi pretty much unusable though. No toilet and didn't stop on way down. Arrived c. 5 mins early.

All considered, I would consider using it again, but would strongly consider driving, even at twice the cost.

devnull

Padraig Mor wrote: »

Got the 9am service from Cork on Monday. About 65% full. Afraid I didn't catch the model (it had dark leather seats if that helps) but I wasn't impressed with the bus. Room - both leg and side - was very poor and spent the journey pretty much wedged into position. WiFi was ok for light browsing, but forget it for any sort of streaming. However, the main problem was the toilet - which stank throughout the whole journey - and had done so since we boarded so the driver must have been aware of it. Arrived Dublin almost exactly 3 hours after leaving; no stop on the journey.

Sounds like one of the Levante's that arrived from the UK a few weeks ago, that is the problem with toilets, if you have them they have the problem that they can stink from time to time which is the drawback, hence if you don't provide them people moan, if they stink people moan that the toilets are there, if you stop for a toilet break, people moan about getting delayed, if you don't stop for a break people moan about not being able to hold on for three hours.

The problem with the Levante's with toilets is whilst they are by no means worse for leg-room than say your average coach, they are without a doubt a downgrade on the coaches without toilets that they are replacing interior wise. Aircoach built their brand on luxury coaches with lots of leg-room but as they don't have toilets they are having to find other coaches within their parent company that due fit that criteria, however unfortunately these coaches whilst having toilets are not as comfortable as the ones they are replacing even if they do have toilets and when the brand was built on the 'travel in luxury' slogan then it's not the best solution to the problem, although I suspect it is driven by not being able to finance the cost of new vehicles.

Return service yesterday much better. 13.00 from Dublin; about 12 people on board. Much better leg room (this bus had orange and blue leather seats).

Pretty much all of the coaches on the route were like that when the service launched in April, however due to the fact that people have continually asked for toilets to be provided, in the last few weeks they've started to replace these coaches with lower spec'd ones with toilets as outlined above.

Padraig Mor

Personally I'd prefer more leg room than a 'bog on board' (could they put that slogan on the side of the bus?!) but I guess you can't please all of the people all of the time! The one on the trip to Dublin was bad though - very noticeable smell from the moment we got on the bus. Still, at the price I'd say the service is a godsend to weekly travellers. While I'd consider driving instead, there's no chance I'd opt for the train unless it was the same price or slightly more expensive.

devnull

Padraig Mor wrote: »

Personally I'd prefer more leg room than a 'bog on board' (could they put that slogan on the side of the bus?!) but I guess you can't please all of the people all of the time!

I would as well but if you look at the debate in this thread you will see that there is a raging debate about the benefits of a toilet versus the benefits of more leg-room!

SandyfordGuy

And this is exactly what I was pointing out previously, after all the clamour for the toilets on the vehicles, now we are having moaning because the toilets are too smelly and are meaning that there is less leg-room on the vehicles that feature them, unfortunately that is always a trade off with a toilet, especially a floor level one. With the toilet being on the same level of seats there is always going to be a bigger chance of a smell travelling the length of a bus, and that is why a sunken toilet, whilst less accessible, is better from this point of view.

A floor level toilet also takes up around four seats on a vehicle which means less passengers can be carried, which is especially relevant on a two axle coach as it can reduce the capacity to a stage where ideally the vehicle doesn't carry as many passengers as it needs to really and this means a lot of the time there has to be compromises made with the spec of the bus to some degree.

The Aircoach new vehicle spec has always been the blue and orange seats you refer to, with lots of legroom. However without a toilet these are seating 44 on a two axle coach and 51/53 on a three axle coach. Leaving aside the greater fuel consumption of a three axle coach, if you add a toilet in they are going to seat approx 40 and 47 respectively, which really isn't a fantastic amount of people at the end of the day. That is why you rarely see lots of legroom and a toilet specified on the same coach. Aircoach was always regarded as the biggest leg-room o their new vehicles than any other operator.

However there is a historic context to this you need to bear in mind why we are seeing this compromised solution which I will outline below, which is related to the fleet procurement policies and the recession which has influenced the situation that Aircoach now find themselves in, and there is no simple solutions and they are not in the best of positions as a business at the moment so they are limited at what they can do with regards to the vehicles they have at their disposal.

Cast your mind back to 2007. Aircoach business on it's Dublin area routes is booming, 2003/2004 44 seat high end luxury huge legroom Setra's are running close to capacity, the 2003 ones are suffering from chronic gearbox issues. The Irish economy is still in a good state. The company is making good profits for it's fourth year in a row. Aircoach decide that they need to serve the passengers they are leaving behind. They order 53 seat tri-axle coaches to serve that demand of a very similar spec to the Setra's. At this point non stop intercity services do not exist, and the City run are short enough not to need toilets.

The coaches on a multi-year lease get delayed and do not arrive until 2008/2009, at which time the Irish economy is caving in demand is going down at a rapid rate and traffic at Dublin airport is dropping. The vehicles that have now arrived are not needed as the capacity is way in excess of the now much reduced demand, but they become a cost that has to be paid as the lease has been signed. Aircoach are left with high capacity coaches, which are not ideally suited to intercity work due to their lack of toilets. But have them for several years they do and they have to make do with them. They then need to adjust their business model to look at Intercity work, seeing as the airport routes are barely making any money.

However at this point the company is loss making, has expensive lease rental payments it is contracted to pay on vehicles which are not reaching their potential and are too expensive because of the lack of demand on airport routes, and the lack of toilets for intercity routes, but they have to stick to the contracts they signed. As money is tight, leasing extra coaches in a business that is losing a good amount of money in the last 12 months is simply not an option at present I'd assume they believe. So therefore they ask their parent company in the UK, what can you offer us, and they are offered the best coaches that the UK have spare, at no cost to them as they are owned by the group.

What I would expect to see is when the leases come up on the Setra's or the Jonckheere's they will asses the market to see what they can secure as replacements. I'm sure with the benefit of hindsight they would have specified the Jonckheere's with toilets, and if the Irish economy had not gone into recession, the fleet would have had an order for Intercity coaches with toilets at some point because all of the other assets would have been running at high frequencies on routes which have been cut back. Sadly those assets are spare because the demand isn't there, so we end with half baked solutions.

The difference with GoBus is that they have little liabilities, and less risk in their business as it is not so dependent on airport travel, or short routes, so they've only ever needed one type of coach and passenger but Aircoach very much is a business that is geared up for Airport travel that is trying to now compete in the intercity market, despite the fact the fleet is not ideally suited to this, but they still have a large fleet which is on multi year leases which is being asked to do jobs that were never really intended of it. GoBus started from scratch during the recession and this was of benefit. Note Citylink originally had no toilets on board their coaches and were only able to replace them once the leases on the Scania's ran out.

bk

SandyfordGuy excellent explanation of the history and current situation with the market.

Hopefully in time it will all improve.

Quick question, would it be possible to retrofit toilets onto the 2009 Jonckheere's? Or is that simply impossible or too expensive?

It is a pity because as you say the 2009 Joncks are excellent coaches.

munchkin_utd

slight tangent.

is there a way to get a ticket/ seat in advance for the aircoach WITHOUT printing a confirmation on paper? (an app or 3rd party site or whatever?)

Im looking to get the bus up from Cork to Dublin on Friday evening but a printer cartridge for the father in laws printer would be double the cost of the blasted bus ticket itsself, on top of the cost of the bus ticket. Im in the middle of making a booking and they mention in a number of places that a PRINTED confirmation is essential for travel.

Its some job that you can fly nowadays without needing anything on paper but you cant get a guaranteed seat on a bus without a printed email confirmation.

KCAccidental

munchkin_utd wrote: »

slight tangent.

is there a way to get a ticket/ seat in advance for the aircoach WITHOUT printing a confirmation on paper? (an app or 3rd party site or whatever?)

Im looking to get the bus up from Cork to Dublin on Friday evening but a printer cartridge for the father in laws printer would be double the cost of the blasted bus ticket itsself, on top of the cost of the bus ticket. Im in the middle of making a booking and they mention in a number of places that a PRINTED confirmation is essential for travel.

Its some job that you can fly nowadays without needing anything on paper but you cant get a guaranteed seat on a bus without a printed email confirmation.

you can always go into a net cafe and get them to print it for you for a couple of cent before you go to catch the bus. webworkhouse on winthrop st would be perfect

bk

munchkin_utd wrote: »

is there a way to get a ticket/ seat in advance for the aircoach WITHOUT printing a confirmation on paper? (an app or 3rd party site or whatever?)

No nunfortunately is has to be printed, which is a real pity. As you say in this day and age it should be possible to use emailed ticket on a smart phone screen. In fact there is no difference between an emailed ticket and a printed ticket, so I don't no why they insist on this.

homerjay2005

is there a service from dublin to cork airport or is just to the city and then you'd have to change in Cork/get taxi?

markpb

homerjay2005 wrote: »

is there a service from dublin to cork airport or is just to the city and then you'd have to change in Cork/get taxi?

Aircoach only do Dublin Airport / Dublin / Cork. I can't imagine many people in Dublin having any need to fly out of Cork airport but the reverse is quite likely.

SHOVELLER

Havent read through the whole thread but why is there no bus to Dublin from 1800 to 0100?

bk

SHOVELLER wrote: »

Havent read through the whole thread but why is there no bus to Dublin from 1800 to 0100?

Actually the last bus is 19:00, the next is then 01:00.

It is just an unfortunate gap in their schedule. I asked about it on their facebook account, and they said that while they have no immediate plans to fill the gap, they may do so in future. I recommend you post on the facebook account too, the more people who ask for it the more likely it might happen.

SHOVELLER

bk wrote: »

Actually the last bus is 19:00, the next is then 01:00.

It is just an unfortunate gap in their schedule. I asked about it on their facebook account, and they said that while they have no immediate plans to fill the gap, they may do so in future. I recommend you post on the facebook account too, the more people who ask for it the more likely it might happen.

Ok thanks.

Its just odd that they have buses going to Cork arriving at 20:00, 21:00, 22:00, 23:00 and not going back to Dublin.

The same happens in reverse with buses going to Dublin through the night but not to Cork.

Vic_08

SHOVELLER wrote: »

bk wrote: »

Actually the last bus is 19:00, the next is then 01:00.

It is just an unfortunate gap in their schedule. I asked about it on their facebook account, and they said that while they have no immediate plans to fill the gap, they may do so in future. I recommend you post on the facebook account too, the more people who ask for it the more likely it might happen.

Ok thanks.

Its just odd that they have buses going to Cork arriving at 20:00, 21:00, 22:00, 23:00 and not going back to Dublin.

The same happens in reverse with buses going to Dublin through the night but not to Cork.

That would be considered peak direction, more demand for people returning to Cork late than from.

Early buses from Cork and late returns would be boosted by Airport demand, a lot of flights departing early morning and arriving late evening.

bk

Vic_08 wrote: »

That would be considered peak direction, more demand for people returning to Cork late than from.

Early buses from Cork and late returns would be boosted by Airport demand, a lot of flights departing early morning and arriving late evening.

Yes, but I do think they could do with even one service about 9 or 10pm to fill the gap ex-Cork.

AlekSmart

SHOVELLER wrote: »

Ok thanks.

Its just odd that they have buses going to Cork arriving at 20:00, 21:00, 22:00, 23:00 and not going back to Dublin.

It's not at all "odd" if you're an Aircoach Driver who lives in Cork

devnull

As predicted, GoBus have decided to team up with Bus Eireann for the service, under the name GoBE

They will use Busaras and Parnell Place bus station.

It's very good from Bus Eireann's point of view, but of course should they land a knock-out blow on Aircoach it will result in Bus Eireann applying for a direct service will no doubt kick GoBus out of such facilities.

Can't help thinking GoBus have been short sighted here, I know going it alone would have it's challenges too, but here they're merely being used by Bus Eireann to knock out the competition I believe.

Bad day for comsumers IMHO, would have been better to see them go it alone.

bk

Hmm, I'm not sure this will kill Aircoach.

1) Schedule seems kind of crap, not as many services as Aircoach and still that big gap in schedule between 7pm and 12:30am. I thought at least one of them would fill the gap.

2) You can only buy tickets by booking online, no walk up fares. Aircoach seems much more flexible here.

3) While an advantage for GoBus to be operating from Parnell Place, I think it is a disadvantage to be operating from Bus Aras. I think Aircoaches Westmoreland St and Quays stops are much more central and handy.

4) Also doesn't Aircoach have better locations at the airport. Confirmed, GoBus stop in the bus park while Aircoach stop right outside the door of the airport.

To be honest, if only Aircoach could sort the toilet issue (possibly retrofit the Jonckeeres with toilets), then I think they could compete very well with this new service.

To be honest, this new GoBus is sort of disappointing, in particular the need to book in advance. Hopefully the competition between Aircoach and GoBus will get both of them to improve their service in time.

One advantage GoBus have is you can buy just a single ticket and it only costs €10. Aircoach will have to drop their ticket prices to match, in particular the singles.

It is a pity that GoBus force you to print your ticket. It should be enough to just show it on the screen of a smart phone. I don't even own a printer anymore and I'm sure many people are the same. If they are only going to force online booking only, then could end up being a big issue for them.

bk

Press release here:

http://www.gobus.ie/news.php?id=7

Here is the schedule:

From Cork
- 00:30am;
- 2.30am;
- 4.30am;
- 6.30am;
- 8.30am;
- 9.30am (Fri & Sun);
- 10:30 am,
- 11.30am (Fri & Sun);
- 12.30pm;
- 1.30pm (Fri & Sun);
- 2.30pm;
- 3.30pm (Fri & Sun);
- 4.30pm;
- 5.30pm (Fri & Sun);
- 6.30pm.

From Dublin Airport
- 6am;
- 8am;
- 10am;
- 11am (Fri & Sun);
- 12am;
- 1pm (Fri & Sun);
- 2pm;
- 3pm (Fri & Sun);
- 4pm;
- 5pm (Fri & Sun);
- 6pm;
- 7pm (Fri & Sun);
- 8pm;
- 10pm
- 12pm.

It is really a pity that either GoBus or Aircoach couldn't put even one bus on to fill the 6 hour gaps in the schedule.

devnull

You have to remember that it is in BE's interest to remove Aircoach from the market place so they can apply for their own license at the end of the day, therefore I would suggest this is why they are currently going about it in this way.

BE must be laughing and delighted about this, they got a fantastic deal and whoever negotiated it on the surface of it appeared to do a fantastic job.

bk

Website for the new service here:

http://www.gobe.ie/

bk

Yes, I really don't see what advantage GoBus gains from this. Busaras is really a crap location.

The only thing I can think of is that GoBus and BE have actually formed a new company to do this and BE are actually help paying for the buses and will do lots of advertising.

Otherwise I can't see any sense in it.

This really goes to show that the government need to privatise BE's intercity fleet.

bk

I've created a new thread to discuss this new GoBus service, I think we should keep this thread to discuss the Aircaoch service, GoBus thread:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=80494725#post80494725

I don't think Aircoach are in terrible trouble here, but they do have things to improve to compete with this new service:

1) Immediately drop ticket prices to match GoBus, €10 single, €15 single to the airport and reduced child fares.

2) Improve the Aircoach website. The Aircoach website really isn't very good, the new GoBus site looks much nicer.

3) Improved advertising of the service.

4) Allow online bookings up to one hour before the bus like GoBus do. Also allow etickets to be shown on the smart phone screen.

5) Fill that 6hour gap in the schedule with even one bus. Ok this is a personal bug bear of mine, rather then something they really need to do to compete.

6) Most importantly get a 100% toilet enabled fleet and cut out the Urlingford stop.

Obviously the last point is by far the hardest one to do, but also the most important. GoBus seem to have shiny new 2012 coaches with toilets. This will be very attractive to people and Aircoach will desperately need to match them here.

Advantages that Aircoach have and should maintain:

1) Greater ticket flexibility with walk up tickets and online tickets which you can use on an earlier/later service if space available.

2) Much more convenient stop locations, both in Dublin City and the Airport. They should heavily advertise this.

However if possible they should look for shelters to be built on the quays in Cork.

AlekSmart

bk wrote: »

Website for the new service here:

http://www.gobe.ie/

From a very brief flash through....any mention of the oul Pass...?

Sponge Bob

bk wrote: »

Website for the new service here:
http://www.gobe.ie/

Precisely how does one pronounce "GOBE" ...surely GoCork or GoCorkDub would be more ehmmm 'reassuring' ?????