Pine Marten????

12gaugedave

Went out to feed the dog this morning, noticed a load of crows in the trees overhanging the pen, clapped my hands and they all flew off but could still see a big black figure in the ivy, started shouting and it climbed down and ran off before i could get a good look, definetly not a cat and had a big long bushy tail, could it be a pine martin? and was he eyeing up my 4 month pup?? What ye think??

pawrick

All you need to know about pine martins is here along with a picture

http://www.wicklowmountainsnationalpark.ie/PineMarten.html

They are very rare and if you are in Laois it makes the likelihood even less of it being one you saw. People often see mink which are a lot more common and mix them up or blame them for damage done by mink.

jaksnipe

fermanagh, monaghan, cavan area is alive with them. there as big a problem as mink.

far from rare round here too

daithi55

riddled with them around my house
have met them many times over the years when out hunting phesants with the pointer
have never met a mink and theres a bounty on them

quicko

I seen my first one last night while out lamping. Caught its eyes about 80m away and it took me a while to figure out what it was. It was only when it started to run that I was sure, it made its way into a glen where pheasants are released .

Birdnuts

daithi55 wrote: »

riddled with them around my house
have met them many times over the years when out hunting phesants with the pointer
have never met a mink and theres a bounty on them

Mink are a good bit smaller and harder to spot(I've only ever seen them when trapped!!) - tend to keep to dense cover too. Beleive me they are everywhere now including certain offshore islands where they have serious potential to do damage to nesting sea-birds etc.:(

German pointer

The mink are over running us here in Limerick

CJhaughey

Pine Martens do a lot to keep Grey squirrels under control.
Where they are present Greys are not as plentiful as Reds, Greys are slower and Pine Martens are quick to take advantage.
They are a native species and should be respected for what they are.

TriggerPL

CJhaughey wrote: »

Pine Martens do a lot to keep Grey squirrels under control.
Where they are present Greys are not as plentiful as Reds, Greys are slower and Pine Martens are quick to take advantage.
They are a native species and should be respected for what they are.

mayb where your from , pine martin are rampant in this country and still people are saying oh it was a mink you seen . well guess what guys if you think you seen one it because you have , our gun club lost 70 partrige to a pinemartin last year . and i lost 20 pheasent to another .

yes they are a part of our native countryside , but are getting to the brink of vermin with the damage they are doing to wild and farm birds.

a pinemartin aint going to chase a gray squrriel when he can take a big fat chicken or raid a pheasent nest .

with the increase it farms been planted pinemartin will be something you will be seening alot more of..

12gaugedave

Thanks for all the replies lads, would they be any danger to my dog??Thats my main concern. If he dosent bother me i wont bother him

TriggerPL

12gaugedave wrote: »

Thanks for all the replies lads, would they be any danger to my dog??Thats my main concern. If he dosent bother me i wont bother him

No in general they will flee unless cornered . It won't attack your dog unless very treatened

12gaugedave

TriggerPL wrote: »

No in general they will flee unless cornered . It won't attack your dog unless very treatened

Thats good to hear, i said it to a neighbour there this evening and he said, he had to go out last night coz his hens were goin mad, id say it was the same thing there. Perfect for them, 200 yards from the river full of fish and lots of marshy,boggy land.

German pointer

pawrick wrote: »

All you need to know about pine martins is here along with a picture

http://www.wicklowmountainsnationalpark.ie/PineMarten.html

They are very rare and if you are in Laois it makes the likelihood even less of it being one you saw. People often see mink which are a lot more common and mix them up or blame them for damage done by mink.

wouldn't want to mistake them for a mink and get into trouble

TriggerPL

12gaugedave wrote: »

TriggerPL wrote: »

No in general they will flee unless cornered . It won't attack your dog unless very treatened

Thats good to hear, i said it to a neighbour there this evening and he said, he had to go out last night coz his hens were goin mad, id say it was the same thing there. Perfect for them, 200 yards from the river full of fish and lots of marshy,boggy land.

With surrounding like that it could be a mink , see can ya borrow a trail cam and get some pics

fodda

TriggerPL wrote: »

yes they are a part of our native countryside , but are getting to the brink of vermin with the damage they are doing to wild and farm birds.

a pinemartin aint going to chase a gray squrriel when he can take a big fat chicken or raid a pheasent nest .

As regards damage to "wild birds" you refer too. Pine martens are a natural part of the countryside so any damage you refer too, is just nothing but the natural play of things so natural as nature intended.

Regards pheasants....Unfortunetly they are an alien species and not natural and again hard as it may seem farm birds are supposed to be protected by the owner.

You may regard Pine Martens as numerous in your neck of the woods, but elsewhere they are still very rare or non existant and rightly protected which is not what you could say about Mink.

Conflicts happen. Where i am there are no or very few foxes because of hunting i assume. The result is we are plagued by Hares which attack anything that grows and a lot cleverer than Rabbits which are also now beginning to show. Hares are protected most of the year and when you are trying to grow Veg. Basically there is no perfect answer but to try and fence off your investments whether they be poultry or vegetables, trees and gardens.

jaksnipe

its only a matter of time before we can legally trap and kill them to controle numbers, but will it be to late then? this place is already crawling with them.

fodda

jaksnipe wrote: »

its only a matter of time before we can legally trap and kill them to controle numbers, but will it be to late then? this place is already crawling with them.

The reason they are rare is because they were once trapped for their fur. They weren't hunted because they were vermin or caused problems.

IrishHomer

fodda wrote: »

The reason they are rare is because they were once trapped for their fur. They weren't hunted because they were vermin or caused problems.

Biggest reason they are rare is they are a woodland mammal and Irelands native woodlands were wiped out by man to create farming fields and the timber was very valuable.

fodda

IrishHomer wrote: »

Biggest reason they are rare is they are a woodland mammal and Irelands native woodlands were wiped out by man to create farming fields and the timber was very valuable.

That's very true.

TriggerPL

They put 50 cameras on nest of black grouse in Scotland and 48 nest were raided by pinemartin . Black grouse are in serious decline in Scotland and they still protect the pinemartin there , it crazy !

I'm not saying slaughter them out of it but introduce a season for cull , before the birds start breeding .

Birdnuts

TriggerPL wrote: »

They put 50 cameras on nest of black grouse in Scotland and 48 nest were raided by pinemartin . Black grouse are in serious decline in Scotland and they still protect the pinemartin there , it crazy !

.

Thankfully after years of decline due primarily to loss of habitat, this species is showing early signs of recovery in Scotland.

http://www.wildlifeextra.com/go/news/black-grouse2012.html

Black Grouse are quiet common in other parts of their range where they share their habitat with Pine Martens and other native predators eg. much of Scandanavia

PS: I appreciate that there are the odd incidents where rogue Pine Martins cause problems for fowl owners but these should be dealt with by the NPWS licence system which allows the trapping and re-location of individual animals. Stripping them of protection would simply lead to them becoming near extinct again as what happened in the past.

fodda

TriggerPL wrote: »

They put 50 cameras on nest of black grouse in Scotland and 48 nest were raided by pinemartin . Black grouse are in serious decline in Scotland and they still protect the pinemartin there , it crazy !

I'm not saying slaughter them out of it but introduce a season for cull , before the birds start breeding .

You will find that it is much more complicated than that. A species decline may be due to several factors and this may not mean the justification of persecuting another species just because they are one of several animals that prey on the struggling species.

Loss of habitat due to humans will be the most common reason for most species decline.

daithi55

did nobody bother to read this http://www.wicklowmountainsnationalpark.ie/PineMarten.html

it states that pine marten eat

What do pine martens eat?

Pine martens are hunters or predators, taking rodents, birds, frogs, rabbits, and occasionally fish on the coast. They are good climbers, but hunt mainly on the ground. They will also feed on a wide variety of other food; berries, nuts, mushrooms and insects, as well as carrion (roadkill and dead animals) and even domestic fowl. They are known to catch squirrels in other countries, but have not been observed doing so in Ireland.

also there not sure if there a native species to ireland

Are pine martens native to Ireland?

It is not yet known whether pine martens are native or were introduced by humans for their fine fur. The earliest remains found so far date back to 2780 years ago. Pictures of what appear to be pine martens can be found in old Irish monastic manuscripts.

mathepac

12gaugedave wrote: »

Thanks for all the replies lads, would they be any danger to my dog??...

Not unless your dog climbs trees

Birdnuts

daithi55 wrote: »

did nobody bother to read this http://www.wicklowmountainsnationalpark.ie/PineMarten.html

it states that pine marten eat

What do pine martens eat?

Pine martens are hunters or predators, taking rodents, birds, frogs, rabbits, and occasionally fish on the coast. They are good climbers, but hunt mainly on the ground. They will also feed on a wide variety of other food; berries, nuts, mushrooms and insects, as well as carrion (roadkill and dead animals) and even domestic fowl. They are known to catch squirrels in other countries, but have not been observed doing so in Ireland.

also there not sure if there a native species to ireland

Are pine martens native to Ireland?

It is not yet known whether pine martens are native or were introduced by humans for their fine fur. The earliest remains found so far date back to 2780 years ago. Pictures of what appear to be pine martens can be found in old Irish monastic manuscripts.

The info in that link is about 10 years years old now and newer observations/studies on Pine Martins and Grey squirrels in the last 5 years or so suggest that the latter has retreated/reduced in numbers in areas where Pine Martens have re-colonised. On the subject of what are Irelands truely native mammals - scientists are currently 100% sure that otters, stoats,bats, Irish Hares, seals and possibly badgers are native. There are question marks over everything from the Red Fox to Red Deer in that regard but so far genetic studies and historical records suggest Pine Martens are as good a candidate as any for native species status.


The link below has some more up to date and interesting info on Pine Marten and Grey Squirrels in Scotland - mentions the Irish experience too:)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/earthnews/3320151/Pine-martens-key-to-red-squirrel-defence.html

TriggerPL

fodda wrote: »

You will find that it is much more complicated than that. A species decline may be due to several factors and this may not mean the justification of persecuting another species just because they are one of several animals that prey on the struggling species.

Loss of habitat due to humans will be the most common reason for all species decline. Restricting the breeding abilities of this "pest" species would have excellent results for the whole planet and just the black grouse.:)

in this part of scotland where the test were done 48 out of 50 nest were raided by pine martin and caught on camera , so it not more complicated than that .

i understand that bird decline is due to more predators , farming changes and lost of habitat , but protecting an animal that is becoming a wide spread mence is wrong .

they were hunted out of it for fur until the 80's but now that fur is worth nothing people wont be out night and day after them , but may kill one while out lamping or shooting , that keeps the numbers in check and everyone is happy . farmers hunter anti's , well not the anti's there never happy .

think about it if the factory's werent paying 50 - 80 euro for a deer , people wouldn be out shooting them as much and poching would be at minimum ! and you wouldn get people paying coilte for the land

4200fps

I will admit the Pine Martin is a pest and a waste of space. I've yet to hear one good complaint about it besides the easy one it kills the grey squirrel,it will kill anything its fit to kill and it will kill the reds too. The only complaint I hear about the pest is it gets into bird pins and kills before it until its worn out. They are taking over the country

Cass

I have done a clean up of a few posts.

Making accusations towards named individuals/companies/organisations is not allowed, and likely to land the OP, and Boards in a "legal problem".

Lets leave out the speculation, and accusations and stick to the topic.

Cass

jaksnipe wrote: »

this place is already crawling with them.

TriggerPL wrote: »

........... an animal that is becoming a wide spread mence is wrong .

4200fps wrote:

They are taking over the country

While i appreciate that each area will have it's own numbers i highly doubt they are as prolific as is made out.

In 30+ years i have only seen 2 and they were within the last 2 years which would indicate a rise, but nothing along the lines of mink, and other vermin.

Also as a highly protected species i cannot see them rescinding that protection level to "hunt at will". You may see a slight decrease in the form of controlled trappping without a license, but even that is a stretch. It's more likely they will remain protected until they are abundant, and irrespective of the damage they do it must be borne in mind that they are protected. DO NOT trap, hunt, shoot, move, even disturb them. It's an offence.

I know some are loosing birds, but really lads it's a fine, loss of firearms, and/or possible jail if you do.

TriggerPL

Ezridax wrote: »

While i appreciate that each area will have it's own numbers i highly doubt they are as prolific as is made out.

In 30+ years i have only seen 2 and they were within the last 2 years which would indicate a rise, but nothing along the lines of mink, and other vermin.

Also as a highly protected species i cannot see them rescinding that protection level to "hunt at will". You may see a slight decrease in the form of controlled trappping without a license, but even that is a stretch. It's more likely they will remain protected until they are abundant, and irrespective of the damage they do it must be borne in mind that they are protected. DO NOT trap, hunt, shoot, move, even disturb them. It's an offence.
I know some are loosing birds, but really lads it's a fine, loss of firearms, and/or possible jail if you do.

ive been talking to a few of the guys on the east coast and they say the pinemartin isnt a problem as of yet but that sighting are getting more and more common over the last 3 years , normally seen while out lamping.

so mayb your only getting now what we got 4 years ago , a steady increase in pinemartin.

im aware your in the midlands before someone points it out . But your still two hours from me . maybe we have the pinemartin and you have the gray squrriel . with the shannon and all. Care to swap !! ha!