Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Muslims asked to remove headscarves for new Garda card

Options
13567…14

Comments

  • Options
    #62
    Mint Sauce
    Registered Users Posts: 29,294 ✭✭✭✭Mint Sauce


    irish-stew wrote: »
    Are they requried to remove their head scarf for a passport photo?
    Unavailable for Comment wrote: »
    No.
    some random drunk wrote: »
    No.

    source: Department of Foreign Affairs.

    http://www.dfa.ie/home/index.aspx?id=257

    LOL. So a legal documant, that is generally accepted worldwide, regardless of the country of origin allows it.

    But for a national card in our own country its not.

    Got to love the identity laws sometimes.


  • Options
    #63
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    af_thefragile wrote: »
    Not respecting ones region and identity is a form of fascism. People shouls have the freedom to follow whatever religion they wish to and identify themselves with it if they wish to without any objections from the state. Its protecting the persons basic rights and freedom.
    Bollox.

    These woman can do whatever the fook they want but when the are having the photo taken for their garda i.d. they should take their headgear off. This can be done in a private booth or only in the company of a female officer. Once the photo is taken, the headgear can be replaced. None of their rights have been breached, in fact they are being given the honor and privilege of being given official state documents giving them legal status and protection, they should be bloody delighted!!!


  • Options
    #64
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    The fact that someone would even invoke the word 'fascism' in a discussion like this is shocking. Typical badgering in a perfectly reasoned discussion.


  • Options
    #65
    St.Spodo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,027 ✭✭✭St.Spodo


    Your religion does not make you exempt from legal procedure. Personally, I believe tolerance is fine and to be encouraged, but it shouldn't extend to pandering to people personal beliefs. The laws of the country should be the same for everyone.


  • Options
    #66
    Traditional
    Registered Users Posts: 237 ✭✭Traditional


    the women are made wear them , and cant drive in certain countries , sarcosy in france sorted them out due to the fact that it was been forced on them .


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #67
    krudler
    Registered Users Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    Traditional wrote: »
    the women are made wear them , and cant drive in certain countries , sarcosy in france sorted them out due to the fact that it was been forced on them .

    god finds women drivers offensive, or something.


  • Options
    #68
    Gevie Stee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 41 ✭Gevie Stee


    St.Spodo wrote: »
    Your religion does not make you exempt from legal procedure. Personally, I believe tolerance is fine and to be encouraged, but it shouldn't extend to pandering to people personal beliefs. The laws of the country should be the same for everyone.

    Exactly


  • Options
    #69
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,215 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    dlofnep wrote: »
    The fact that someone would even invoke the word 'fascism' in a discussion like this is shocking. Typical badgering in a perfectly reasoned discussion.
    It's like the "Ireland is a dictatorship" nonsense - undermines the actual reality of these things.


  • Options
    #70
    Fluorescence
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 8,490 Mod ✭✭✭✭Fluorescence


    If I went to an arab country that required me by law to wear a hijab (or a niqab, which I think is the full face version), I'd have to wear it (end of) or leave the country. Here, we ask that they take it off for 5 seconds to have a photo taken and the rest of the time they can dress as they will. A big fuss was made and now they get to keep their hair coverings on for photos. Having one set of rules for them and another for everybody else is simply ridiculous, and hinders Ireland from becoming an egalitarian society.
    Man in Article wrote:
    We are grateful for this prompt response. This is the inclusive Ireland that we are proud to be part of.

    Of course it is, because it suits them very well not to have to comply with the normal laws of the land.


  • Options
    #71
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    Dudess wrote: »
    It's like the "Ireland is a dictatorship" nonsense - undermines the actual reality of these things.

    Yup, and an actual insult to anyone who lived up a real fascist government.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #72
    kincsem
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,013 ✭✭✭kincsem


    I'm wondering if they have an ID card showing them without hair covered would they only want to show their ID to a female Garda if asked for ID? That would be reasonable.


  • Options
    #73
    token101
    Registered Users Posts: 3,050 ✭✭✭token101


    Stark wrote: »
    Normally I'd be against pandering to religions, but these women have been brought up to see a woman's hair the way we would see woman's breasts and other private parts. Asking them to get it out is akin to asking an Irish woman to show more cleavage when having her photo taken.

    Well get over it or don't come here. If something happening in a certain place offends you that much, don't go there. That's the reason I don't go to Saudi on my holidays. We shouldn't be making unreasonable compromises for Islam or any other religion. This is an unreasonable compromise. What you do in your own home is your business. Wear the niqab in the shower for all I care. But in public and when interacting with others, you go by Irish law, which dictates that ID has to show the full face, uncovered hair, on a white background. No ifs, buts or maybes. And if you don't like that, go somewhere else.


  • Options
    #74
    af_thefragile
    Registered Users Posts: 7,171 ✭✭✭af_thefragile


    Dudess wrote: »
    How is a request to momentarily remove a headscarf for a photo in contravention of any of the above? :confused:

    Because there is no need for it. They identify themselves with the hijab and wear it whenever they're outside. If any gard ever stops them on the street and ask for the id card would the gard then have to ask the woman to take off her hijab because its not on her id?
    Her passport which is the legally accepted document of identity worldwide has her picture of her with her hijab on. Why should she be required to take it off when she's here?

    Its nothing more than xenophobia. Just because a handful of people believe the hijab is a ridiculous practice, women who follow it should be stripped of it for some vague legal reason.


  • Options
    #75
    irelandrover
    Registered Users Posts: 3,683 ✭✭✭irelandrover


    fluorescence wrote: »
    If I went to an arab country that required me by law to wear a hijab (or a niqab, which I think is the full face version), I'd have to wear it (end of) or leave the country. Here, we ask that they take it off for 5 seconds to have a photo taken and the rest of the time they can dress as they will. A big fuss was made and now they get to keep their hair coverings on for photos. Having one set of rules for them and another for everybody else is simply ridiculous, and hinders Ireland from becoming an egalitarian society.



    Of course it is, because it suits them very well not to have to comply with the normal laws of the land.

    You're not asking them to take it off for 5 seconds. You are asking them to take it off so a picture can be taken and put on your national ID. Its the same as asking a woman to take a topless photo to stick on their passport.


  • Options
    #76
    Fluorescence
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 8,490 Mod ✭✭✭✭Fluorescence


    irelandrover wrote: »
    You're not asking them to take it off for 5 seconds. You are asking them to take it off so a picture can be taken and put on your national ID. Its the same as asking a woman to take a topless photo to stick on their passport.

    It's really really not.


  • Options
    #77
    Statistician
    Closed Accounts Posts: 256 ✭✭Statistician


    admiralofthefleet wrote: »
    when in rome.....

    In Ireland we still have a few rights left.
    These people should retain their religious freedom.

    What upsets me is that the government is determined to erode our civil liberties with their big brother style data collection.


  • Options
    #78
    MarkR
    Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators Posts: 11,054 Mod ✭✭✭✭MarkR


    If it's just the hijab, then fine.

    http://www.gomiddleeast.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/hijab-niquab-chador-burqa.jpg


  • Options
    #79
    irelandrover
    Registered Users Posts: 3,683 ✭✭✭irelandrover


    fluorescence wrote: »
    It's really really not.

    Why? If they believe that their hair is intimate then what is the difference?


  • Options
    #80
    Gevie Stee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 41 ✭Gevie Stee


    irelandrover wrote: »
    You're not asking them to take it off for 5 seconds. You are asking them to take it off so a picture can be taken and put on your national ID. Its the same as asking a woman to take a topless photo to stick on their passport.

    Ridiculous argument! :rolleyes:


  • Options
    #81
    MaxSteele
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,109 ✭✭✭MaxSteele


    The sheer audacity of foreign nationals to dare question our laws based on f***ing silly religious grounds is insulting and pretty childish if you ask me. This politically correct, islamo-pandering should not be tolerated. Take off the bloody scarf for a measly ten seconds please and be thankful you had the privilege to come and live here in the first place. :mad:


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #82
    af_thefragile
    Registered Users Posts: 7,171 ✭✭✭af_thefragile


    fluorescence wrote: »
    It's really really not.

    For them it is akin to that. If you believe thats ridiculous, its your believe. People have a right for their identity to be respected.


  • Options
    #83
    johngalway
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,271 ✭✭✭✭johngalway


    If they don't like it they're free to go back to where they came from. I'm sure they're freer and have more opportunities there anyway, f'sake :rolleyes:

    I have nothing against anyone but I despise this PC pandering BS.


  • Options
    #84
    Gevie Stee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 41 ✭Gevie Stee


    af_thefragile wrote: »
    For them it is akin to that. If you believe thats ridiculous, its your believe. People have a right for their identity to be respected.

    So do I as a woman have the right to go to their country and not wear a headscarf?? Since it's my belief that it's derogatory to women?


  • Options
    #85
    Nothingbetter2d
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,038 ✭✭✭Nothingbetter2d


    if they dont like our laws they can fcuk off back to the desert from which they came.


  • Options
    #86
    Unavailable for Comment
    Registered Users Posts: 217 ✭✭Unavailable for Comment


    Gevie Stee wrote: »
    So do I as a woman have the right to go to their country and not wear a headscarf?? Since it's my belief that it's derogatory to women?

    What about Irish Muslims women? It's the same rules for the passport photos.


  • Options
    #87
    Gevie Stee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 41 ✭Gevie Stee


    Unavailable for Comment wrote: »
    What about Irish Muslims women? It's the same rules for the passport photos.

    Answer my question first?


  • Options
    #88
    krudler
    Registered Users Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    Gevie Stee wrote: »
    So do I as a woman have the right to go to their country and not wear a headscarf?? Since it's my belief that it's derogatory to women?

    no, you'll send the men into a raping frenzy with your whorish ways you hussy.


  • Options
    #89
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    af_thefragile wrote: »
    Because there is no need for it. They identify themselves with the hijab and wear it whenever they're outside. If any gard ever stops them on the street and ask for the id card would the gard then have to ask the woman to take off her hijab because its not on her id?
    Her passport which is the legally accepted document of identity worldwide has her picture of her with her hijab on. Why should she be required to take it off when she's here?

    Its nothing more than xenophobia. Just because a handful of people believe the hijab is a ridiculous practice, women who follow it should be stripped of it for some vague legal reason.
    This is something I dont get, how can any right minded person think that having people with full face coverings in a passport photo is a good idea? Just because it has been accepted practice up to now does not mean the Irish state should continue to unquestioningly tow the line - IT MAKES NO SENSE AND COMPLETELY DEFEATS THE PURPOSE OF AN ID PHOTO. Why bother with the photo at all? Scrap the whole photo system and any time a garda or immigration officer stops a woman in full headgear, bring them to the nearest station and do the biometric checks and then send her on her way. Is that more acceptable?


  • Options
    #90
    af_thefragile
    Registered Users Posts: 7,171 ✭✭✭af_thefragile


    Gevie Stee wrote: »
    So do I as a woman have the right to go to their country and not wear a headscarf?? Since it's my belief that it's derogatory to women?

    Yes you do. If another country doesn't respect that is their problem.
    People here like to bang on about freedom and rights and bla bla bla but when it comes to issues like this it suddenly becomes acceptable to reject a person's religious identity and freedom.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #91
    ejmaztec
    Registered Users Posts: 23,974 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    Gevie Stee wrote: »
    So do I as a woman have the right to go to their country and not wear a headscarf?? Since it's my belief that it's derogatory to women?

    You probably do have the right not to, but the natives would be mightily upset, and probably give you the evil eye or worse.


Advertisement