sniper

zagro

is there a shooting range in Dublin with a distance to target of 200 m and more? do they lend out sniper rifles?

extremetaz

Best you'll manage will be 50m benchrest - Hilltop shooting club are set up for that.

...and I dare say that's just as well for now. :rolleyes:

Sparks

Short answer, no.
Longer answer, no range "lends out sniper rifles". And most would hear a request like that and react in a fairly negative way to it.

Cass

There are only two ranges in the country that exceed 200mtrs, and only one that exceeds 300mtrs. Neither are in Dublin, and neither are DOD owned or run so getting a "sniper" rifle is impossible as only army personel have/need snipers.

The two ranges mentioned above use target rifles as they only shoot at paper targets. As said above should you ask the persons running these ranges for a sniper rifle you would receive some odd looks, and be politely told no.

From your use of the word sniper i would hazzard a guess you are new to rifle/target shooting. Even if a range existed that provided such rifles they would, i assume, not hand them out to people with no previous experience. Also as most target rifles used in long distance target work can cost quite a few euro no range could afford to have any as range guns.

zagro

Ezridax wrote: »

There are only two ranges in the country that exceed 200mtrs, and only one that exceeds 300mtrs. Neither are in Dublin, and neither are DOD owned or run so getting a "sniper" rifle is impossible as only army personel have/need snipers.

The two ranges mentioned above use target rifles as they only shoot at paper targets. As said above should you ask the persons running these ranges for a sniper rifle you would receive some odd looks, and be politely told no.

From your use of the word sniper i would hazzard a guess you are new to rifle/target shooting. Even if a range existed that provided such rifles they would, i assume, not hand them out to people with no previous experience. Also as most target rifles used in long distance target work can cost quite a few euro no range could afford to have any as range guns.

Yes, I'm newbie with guns. No experience at all.

ISAF Enduring Freedom - Sharana 2008

I'm looking for something in Dublin area. Just for fun. No pistols

extremetaz

zagro wrote: »

ISAF Enduring Freedom - Sharana 2008

Sounds like you should have absolutely no trouble at all mastering the .22LR benchrest so.

Enjoy. :rolleyes:

fish slapped

zagro wrote: »

Yes, I'm newbie with guns. No experience at all.

ISAF Enduring Freedom - Sharana 2008

I'm looking for something in Dublin area. Just for fun. No pistols

ISAF Enduring Freedom


Sorry dude, you lost me there !!!.... but..... is you wired to the moon???

Think your on completely the wrong site !!!

zagro

extremetaz wrote: »

Sounds like you should have absolutely no trouble at all mastering the .22LR benchrest so.

Enjoy. :rolleyes:

I sense jealousy :rolleyes:

Sparks

zagro wrote: »

Yes, I'm newbie with guns. No experience at all.
ISAF Enduring Freedom - Sharana 2008

(a) You are a newbie at the civilian shooting scene in Ireland and were just given pretty good advice, not scorn;
(b) Military service is not always considered sufficient safety training on civilian ranges, for the same reason that being a good civilian target shooter is not generally considered sufficient training by the army. Don't take offence if the range you go to hears of your military service and doesn't immediately hand you the keys and tell you to work away unsupervised! (Even if they thought you were fine, it wouldn't be legal)

I'm looking for something in Dublin area. Just for fun. No pistols

You probably won't find exactly what you're looking for from that description. The closest thing you might find would be Courtlough, and that's clay pigeon and .22lr rifle only.

zagro

Sparks wrote: »

(a) You are a newbie at the civilian shooting scene in Ireland and were just given pretty good advice, not scorn;
(b) Military service is not always considered sufficient safety training on civilian ranges, for the same reason that being a good civilian target shooter is not generally considered sufficient training by the army. Don't take offence if the range you go to hears of your military service and doesn't immediately hand you the keys and tell you to work away unsupervised! (Even if they thought you were fine, it wouldn't be legal)


You probably won't find exactly what you're looking for from that description. The closest thing you might find would be Courtlough, and that's clay pigeon and .22lr rifle only.

I'll try Courtlough. Thanks guys

fish slapped

Is there many people in the armed forces (any armed forces) that could say " I'm newbie with guns. No experience at all." I thought some form of basic training with firearms was part and parcel of being in the ARMED forces

Sparks

That might have been sarcasm fish

fish slapped

Sparks wrote: »

That might have been sarcasm fish

Hope not ... otherwise I'd have to put that down to me being Thick!!!!!

DOOOHHHHH!!!!

Feisar

Aren't people a bit touchy over terminology?

While any rifle can be a "snipers" rifle if used by a sniper isn't there room for calling an AI for example a snipers rifle even when it is not used in that roll?

An F1 car is an F1 car regardless of what use it is put to. or does it have to be used in an F1 race to become an F1 car?

Sparks

Feisar wrote: »

Aren't people a bit touchy over terminology?

Yes. And since those people are usually addressed in ways like "Yes Garda, that's the rifle I'm applying for a licence for", it's helpful to you to use terminology that doesn't raise eyebrows.

Think of it this way.

• Snipers shoot at people.
• We don't shoot at people.
• We do like a quiet life.
• We do like to spend our limited time shooting instead of in court fighting bad licencing decisions.
• The government thoughtfully didn't fund training courses on civilian target shooting for all the Superintendents, Chief Superintendents and Firearms Officers across the country, so some are knowledgeable and some are... not. Decidedly so in some unfortunate cases.
• So we call our rifles rifles and we don't call them sniper rifles; because when we do so, even in jest, we invite images from any number of bad Hollywood fims into the Superintendent's mind. Which isn't helpful when you're applying for a rifle licence to stalk deer or to shoot paper targets on a range.

Cass

It's about public perception not to mention it's not the use of the firearm.

When someone mentions the word sniper the first image people think of is some person, mostly, but not always a soldier, shooting people. Thats not what we have our firearms for nor is it what we want people thinking off when they think of long range target shooting.

Much on the same way as the word weapon is used. Yes is can be argued it's an apt description of a gun, but again it conjures negative connotations. The word weapon immediately implies a sense of danger, harm, etc. Again nowhere near what we have our firearms for or use them for.

Say what you like about people's thoughts about sports shooters, but it's better to use non inflamatory words and provide peace of mind to both Joe Public, and the PTB rather than using buzz words or inappropriate words that in times of trouble can be used against us or shine a poor light on our sporting interests.

The OP used a word that alot of newcomers or people unfamiliar with firearms use, and i thought s/he was new to sports shooting. Instead of explaining his/her position they come back with a name of an organisation and no explanation other than a sarcastic implication that s/he is well experienced contrary to the sarcastic remark. Not a great start for someone that has no previous history on this forum.

Thirdfox

We have "sports equipment" not "weapons" - a screwdriver could be a weapon if used in a particular manner.

A compound bow would do a lot more damage than my air rifle - and they are both sports equipment when used in their respective fields.

Similarly - when I apply for job interviews and they see the mention of 10m air rifle I always say I compete in target shooting rather than simply "I like to shoot". Nuances in words can have a huge effect on perception.

extremetaz

Further to all of the above, every dictionary definition of the verb "snipe" includes an entry in relation to firearms which specifically refers to shooting at individuals (alongside this are entries relating to snide comments and the act of hunting the bird 'snipe').

We do not do shoot at individuals, ergo, we do not snipe (excepting wildfowlers, and the more witty amongst us) and we do not use sniper rifles.

fish slapped

fish slapped wrote: »

Is there many people in the armed forces (any armed forces) that could say " I'm newbie with guns. No experience at all." I thought some form of basic training with firearms was part and parcel of being in the ARMED forces

Even some one with military training would refer to it as a rifle or a "weapon"... in my experience anyone referring to a "sniper rifle" is either looking for the air-soft forum or is displaying their lack of knowledge.... I hate the word bulls!h7e... but if the cap fits...

tac foley

I was reliably informed some time ago on this very site that the approved terminology for a non-military firearm used for sporting purposes is 'firearm'.

Hence 'firearm's licence'.

Soldiers have offensive weapons, including the ultimate individual offensive weapon, the sniping rifle.

Us fun-bunnies have firearms.

tac

Feisar

It's being pedantic but I fully accept that and understand why.

Nobody has answer my question on an Accuracy International rifle, I feel it can be legitimately be called a sniper rifle as it is designed from the ground up to be one.

Sure the OP should have said "is there anywhere I can shoot a long range precision rifle, etc" but it's hardly that big a deal.

Feisar

tac foley wrote: »

I was reliably informed some time ago on this very site that the approved terminology for a non-military firearm used for sporting purposes is 'firearm'.

Hence 'firearm's licence'.

Soldiers have offensive weapons, including the ultimate individual offensive weapon, the sniping rifle.

Us fun-bunnies have firearms.

tac

I really hate splitting hairs but one must get a "firearm's licence" for an airgun which falls outside the definition of firearm.

All in all I there's not much point in referencing textbook definitions.

To finish I lurk here a fair bit, throw in the odd post and am happy to abide by accepted terminology.

fish slapped

I shoot an Accuracy International for FTR (hopefully) and I'm not a sniper... I've never been trained in the concealment skills of a sniper or their range finding skills or any of their other skills.... the only similarity is I squeeze a trigger too...

The AI was designed by target shooters... and so is inherently a good rifle for target shooting...

Witcher

Feisar wrote: »

Nobody has answer my question on an Accuracy International rifle, I feel it can be legitimately be called a sniper rifle as it is designed from the ground up to be one.

The term 'sniper rifle' is related to its use i.e as a sniper's weapon. A person shooting paper at 600 yards in the Midlands for example, is not a sniper, ergo the rifle is not a sniper rifle. It's a firearm.

Just because a sniper uses an AI doesn't pigeonhole the design it into being a sniper rifle. Ohter people use them too.

Feisar

fish slapped wrote: »

I shoot an Accuracy International for FTR (hopefully) and I'm not a sniper... I've never been trained in the concealment skills of a sniper or their range finding skills or any of their other skills.... the only similarity is I squeeze a trigger too...

The AI was designed by target shooters... and so is inherently a good rifle for target shooting...

But even those target shooters agree! http://www.accuracyinternational.com/

I think clivej is right and it's mainly my fault I'm dropping it at this stage.

Sparks

Feisar wrote: »

I really hate splitting hairs but one must get a "firearm's licence" for an airgun which falls outside the definition of firearm

It's not splitting hairs, it's just that you're looking at two seperate definitions.

• Out here in the shooting world, an airgun wouldn't be thought of as a firearm strictly speaking because there's no combustible propellant involved.
• But when you start talking about licences, you're in the legal world (because you're looking at that bit of paper and not the actual firearm itself), and there the term 'firearm' is defined in section one of the Firearms Act and that definition had 'airgun' added to it in the 1964 Act.

Sparks

Feisar wrote: »

But even those target shooters agree!

They're not target shooters, they're the commercial company that sell the rifles to the British Army and others. AI was set up by a target shooter, but it's a commercial business and its website is the product of its marketing division, and marketing has even less respect for the terms used by target shooters than the law does

Cass

Feisar wrote: »

It's being pedantic...............

I agree completely. It is pedantic, and literally a csae of semantics, but thats the way it is here (Ireland). I seen a news report a while back about a man shot with a high powered sniper rifle in Dublin ( IIRC). When they showed the pictures it was a .22lr. Another example was a headline in the paper about a shooting down country and the front page lead with a picture of a Glock handgun. Yet the shooting was done with a side by side shotgun.

It's sensationalism at it's worst, and we cannot combat it so instead do not add to it.

Nobody has answer my question on an Accuracy International rifle, I feel it can be legitimately be called a sniper rifle as it is designed from the ground up to be one.

You are quite correct. It is a sniper rifle at it's core however most will agree that what it was designed for and what it's used for are two completely seperate things, and hence deserve a name change so as one is not "coupled" with the other. So a paper puncher uses an AI target rifle, while a soldier in Iraq, Afghan., etc uses a sniper rifle.

Sure the OP should have said "is there anywhere I can shoot a long range precision rifle, etc" but it's hardly that big a deal.

It's not a big deal as such, but more often when someone is asked to use a different adjective the focus turns to the use of a word rather than the topic of the thread.

Feisar wrote: »

I really hate splitting hairs but one must get a "firearm's licence" for an airgun which falls outside the definition of firearm.

A classic example of how strict and unfair/unecessary certain gun laws are in Ireland, and further reason we must be seen to not reinforce the negatives associated with firearms in however small a way we can.

To finish I lurk here a fair bit, throw in the odd post and am happy to abide by accepted terminology.

Thats all we ask. We are not chastising you or the OP or anyone for that matter. We cannot force you to use the accepted terminology, but we'd much prefer it.

fish slapped

With the onset of the Vietnam war the US military had to hurriedly purchase remington 700 rifles and redfield 3-9x42 scopes to equip their "snipers", after they had failed to upkeep the skill-set of a sniper in their armed forces..... So does that mean all remington 700 rifles are "sniper rifles" and all who use them are "snipers" .... I think NOT.

The shooting fraternity in this country have fought long and hard to dispel the myth that any rifle with a scope on top was a "sniper rifle" and for their sport to be accepted and given a platform as a sport. Hence such careless usage of terms such as "sniper rifle " are found offensive to sport shooters.

zagro

fish slapped wrote: »

With the onset of the Vietnam war the US military had to hurriedly purchase remington 700 rifles and redfield 3-9x42 scopes to equip their "snipers", after they had failed to upkeep the skill-set of a sniper in their armed forces..... So does that mean all remington 700 rifles are "sniper rifles" and all who use them are "snipers" .... I think NOT.

The shooting fraternity in this country have fought long and hard to dispel the myth that any rifle with a scope on top was a "sniper rifle" and for their sport to be accepted and given a platform as a sport. Hence such careless usage of terms such as "sniper rifle " are found offensive to sport shooters.

Do you know that Accuracy Int. is available for civilian as sport (hunters) rifle in many countries?

It wasn't me!

zagro wrote: »

Do you know that Accuracy Int. is available for civilian as sport (hunters) rifle in many countries?

He probably does. He owns one.

Edit: Although for hunting, you'd be mental. Damn thing must weigh about fifteen pounds at least! Might as well carry two normal hunting rifles.

tac foley

zagro wrote: »

Do you know that Accuracy Int. is available for civilian as sport (hunters) rifle in many countries?

Well, yes, it is.

I checked with my club secretary last night and found that there are 31 in our club - 11 of which are in .338LM. There are also many look-alikes in calibres ranging from .223 to 6.5x47 and .300WM, using the ever-popular Remington 700 action and a load of added-on doo-dads.

All are used on our club ranges and on other ranges over the UK as target rifles. In spite of the fact that twice a year some of them are also used over in Germany in BDMP competitions, where the para-military and police tactical firearms units practice their counter-terrorism-type shooting in realistic scenarios. Even here in UK there are so-called 'sniper competions', where, without causing politicians' apoplexy, many British shooters can try their skills at being wannabe snipers for the day.

Many rifles that can be found in the public sector have the term sharpshooter applied to them by the manufacturers, particularly those in Germany and Austria. If anybody here has a Steyr SSG of any kind, f'rinstance, note that the name stands for 'scharfschuetzengewehr - sharpshooter rifle. Even my old Krico 650SS has a name that means 'Scharfschuetzen-Spezial'. Even the SAKO TRG was designed from the onset as a sniping rifle for military and para-military forces, as well as for counter-terrorism tasks with civilian police.

And how many AI 'look-alikes' are there in YOUR club? The after-market AICS stock seems to me to be VERY popular in Ireland - rightly so. Gold medallist Malcolm Cooper, sadly missed by all us shooters, and who designed it in the fust place, knew exactly what was wanted.

The mind-set of the politician is quite different to that of the ordinary rational thinker, and couple that with the international press prediliction for ALWAYS getting it wrong and there you have a recipe for a publicity disaster that can always be made to work against us and the peaceful and law-abiding following of our chosen sport.

tac

fish slapped

fish slapped wrote: »

I shoot an Accuracy International for FTR (hopefully) and I'm not a sniper... I've never been trained in the concealment skills of a sniper or their range finding skills or any of their other skills.... the only similarity is I squeeze a trigger too...

The AI was designed by target shooters... and so is inherently a good rifle for target shooting...

zagro wrote: »

Do you know that Accuracy Int. is available for civilian as sport (hunters) rifle in many countries?

Zagro please take note of post no. 23 above... I've already stated that I own one ... and yes I have brought it deer stalking ... just the once... a mistake I wont make again... 16lb with no sling on a 4 hour stalk... No thanks.

zagro

fish slapped wrote: »

Zagro please take note of post no. 23 above... I've already stated that I own one ... and yes I have brought it deer stalking ... just the once... a mistake I wont make again... 16lb with no sling on a 4 hour stalk... No thanks.

Yes, I've read that but I mean you can buy AI in many countries and keep at home. According to Firearms Order 2008 Accuracy International AX .308 is non-restricted rifle in Ireland. Caliber is 7,62, lenght is greather than 90cm and magazine capacity is 10.

http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Restricted%20Firearms%20and%20Ammunition%20S.I..pdf/Files/Restricted%20Firearms%20and%20Ammunition%20S.I..pdf

In Canada AI is non-restricted rifle as well.

http://www.wolverinesupplies.com/details/3998/Accuracy-International-AX-308-win-Rifle-Information.aspx

Target shooting from this kind of weapon is nothing new. Therefore I asked about a range in Dublin. Thanks

fish slapped

zagro wrote: »

fish slapped wrote: »

Zagro please take note of post no. 23 above... I've already stated that I own one ... and yes I have brought it deer stalking ... just the once... a mistake I wont make again... 16lb with no sling on a 4 hour stalk... No thanks.

Yes, I've read that but I mean you can buy AI in many countries and keep at home. According to Firearms Order 2008 Accuracy International AX .308 is non-restricted rifle in Ireland. Caliber is 7,62, lenght is greather than 90cm and magazine capacity is 10.

http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Restricted%20Firearms%20and%20Ammunition%20S.I..pdf/Files/Restricted%20Firearms%20and%20Ammunition%20S.I..pdf

In Canada AI is non-restricted rifle as well.

http://www.wolverinesupplies.com/details/3998/Accuracy-International-AX-308-win-Rifle-Information.aspx

Target shooting from this kind of weapon is nothing new. Therefore I asked about a range in Dublin. Thanks

Yes you asked about the range but you also asked about getting a loan of a " sniper rifle" and again above you referred to it again as a " weapon " . I have tried to explain the difference between a sniper rifle / weapon and what is used by us civilians for the sport of target shooting , but fear my time could be better spent elsewhere.

Longranger

I was hunting rabbits on my mates farm recently and a couple of the neighbours called by to see how I was getting on. The moment they saw my rifle(cz455 thumbhole hmr with scope, mod and bipod)the first thing they said was "jaysus, why do you need a fcuking sniper rifle to shoot rabbits"
Ignorance is everywhere when you're shooting! They also said my "silencer" was broken as they could hear the shot! BTW,I know quite a few lads with AI rifles and a good mate of mine recently took delivery of a Barrett M98B .338 Lapua. Very few of them hunt and these TARGET RIFLES are lovely to shoot but for me anyway, ridiculously expensive. But I can guarantee one thing, none of these lads would appreciate being called "snipers" as it's tough enough to convince the CS that you're sane enough to be granted a licence:D

Boiled-egg

The words mountain and molehill come to mind following this thread!! Anyways hers my 2 cents worth.
Rifles are not classified as sniper rifles because there is no such cassification. Indeed rifles when found suitable are used by snipers and therefore are sniper rifles. The same rifle used by a hunter or target shooter is a hunting rifle or target rifle. Obviously firearms manufactures are out to make money and there fore they compete in tender processes for military contracts but that does not make certain rifles in to sniper rifles in merely highlites if they are suitable for use by a sniper or not.

All of the above IMO